London 2013

[Paelos]

I used a car frequently when I was in Ireland, but never ever needed one in London. It's just not necessary.

[Yegolev]

Alright, I'll give it a pass until I'm ready to ditch the woman and drive into the border country for a blackout.  Then I'll rent something sporty.

[eldaec]

Real tube map:



If looking for more recommendations, I've found the blog this comes from to be broadly sound.

[K9]

I'm a pretty avid reader of cheese and biscuits. I find that Chris' tastes neatly align with my own, and I have had a bunch of good recommendations from his writing.

[eldaec]

Ate at les Deux Salons last night.

The place is arbutus group's take on a Parisian Brasserie, apparently based on les deux margots. We had heard good things with a warning that you can order badly.

Entering the place you can see they've gone the whole hog on Parisian style decoration, and it is a beautiful room as a result - creates a much better ambience than the 'pretheatre cafeteria' feel that Arbutus itself can have.

For me, Snail & Bacon Pie followed by Lapin a la Moutarde, GF took the Ceviche of Swordfish Lime & Chilli then Steak Frites.

The pie is in truth best thought of as a more interesting way to serve snails, the pie crust and cream & bacon sauce were both faultless, if in future I am ever served escargot in traditional "slopped on a plate with garlic butter" form, I will feel entitled to sniff loudly and adjust my beret.

The rabbit turned out equally good - meltingly tender, and the mustard sauce managed to pack in flavour without treading on the relatively delicate rabbit. This is wednesday's plats du jour, and worth planning a reservation around.

GF's dishes were also very good - but if I were to quibble, the swordfish was over seasoned and the steak took the unfortunate french approach of favouring texture over flavour (though they saved it with an excellent jus).

Desserts were lemon tart and creme brulee, both impossible to criticise.

Finally I should mention the wine policy - they have a relatively short wine list, but as a result offer every single wine in 250ml carafes at no additional markup. It makes picking wine for mutiple courses a joy and frankly every civilised restaurant should do the same. Cocktails on the other hand should probably be avoided as who in their right mind uses Beefeater gin in a martini?

[penfold]

Glad to see you enjoyed Deux Salons.  I heard it had gone right downhill since opening and it sounds like it is back on track. Kopapa is just up the road though, and I'm addicted to their black rice pudding. I've even skipped dessert at lunch at a few other places just to stop there later on in the afternoon for it.

[Yegolev]

I've been told that it is very hard to get from Heathrow to anywhere in London.  I'll have at least two large and two medium bags; am I going to have to drag that shit onto the tube?  I think a taxi is 50 pounds or 100 American rupees.  I don't know what neighborhood I'll be in at this time.

[Yegolev]

Travelcard versus Oystercard! Go!

[Signe]

A taxi is expensive but if I had more than one suitcase and no one was meeting me, I'd probably book one online.  Better yet, you could take the train to Paddington and then just get a taxi to where ever from there.  It hardly takes any time at all.

Heathrow Express

Travelcards, Oystercards, whatever.  You can do the Oyster card pay as you go, too.

[rattran]

Heathrow express will be close to that 50 pounds each way, may as well taxi it. Cheapest for pre-bought round trip for the 3 of you will run 85 pounds.

[Signe]

EIGHTY FIVE POUNDS WHAT???  Geez.  That's lots.  Stay at a hotel with a parking lot and rent a car.  Might be easier and cheaper.  Then you could drive to Stonehenge or Brighton or something or other.

[Signe]

If you really do go to Stonehenge, ask if Simon Banton is there... he's a really good friend.  Make him talk to you.  He's one of the most interesting people I know.  Tell him hey.  Oh, and Stonehenge is redecorating so maybe not.

[eldaec]

You'll want to book a cab in advance - then yes, about £50. The only other sensible plan would be the piccadily line. But personally, with suitcases I wouldn't bother.

[Samwise]

I took the Piccadilly line option my first couple of times visiting London.  It's cheap, but it's not a pleasant experience when you're jet-lagged and weighed down with luggage.  Spending the extra money for the express train or a cab (whichever is cheaper for the number of people you have) is well worth it.

[pants]

Remember you don't have to tip cabbies in the UK, so 50quid is 50quid, not 50+ some random percentage between 10 and 25 you crazy Mericans don't get me started on tipping again.

 

[eldaec]

You don't have to, but it is normal to at least round up a cab fare.

The only other place you tip in London is restaurants, but only if they don't put service on the bill (which about half the restaurants do these days). If there is no service included, 10% is plenty.

[eldaec]

Travelcard versus Oystercard! Go!

Not a valid battle.

A travel card is a type of fare.

An oyster is an electronic card that holds your 'ticket'.

Your question is like asking if you want to buy beer in a six pack or by credit card.

You want an oyster no matter what, the alternative is paper ticketing and they charge you through the nose. Your choice is whether to put a travel card (unlimited travel in zone n for a week/month) on the oyster, or just put cash on the oyster and pay as you go. Travel card will probably be slightly cheaper because as a tourist you'll want multiple journeys per day but you'd need to look at the transport for London site and do maths.

Personally I get by just fine with a PAYG oyster and no travel card. There is a maximum daily fare on PAYG oyster which means you most you ever pay is the equivalent of a daily travel card.

[K9]

Have you figured out where you're staying yet?

I always use the Picadilly Line when I'm flying in and out of Heathrow, but then again, I'm always by myself, and don't have an extra suitcase and a kid in tow.

I'd say that if you are staying anywhere in South West London, or the Centerthen take the Picadilly Line, if you're in Maida Vale or somewhere more northern take the Heathrow Express, anywhere else I'd take a cab. Direct cabs to and from the airport will probably be the most expensive, but least hassle. Picadilly Line will only set you back about £3 each, but you'll have to do a bit more legwork.

[Krakrok]

Heathrow Connect for the win.

We took Piccadilly going in and my wife almost died getting her giant suitcase over the gaps and up the 100-200 stairs at each transfer.

We took Heathrow Connect at Paddington on the way out and there were no stairs no gaps. Half the price of the Express it looks like. It's a separate ticket from any other combination "ride everything" pass you may have.

[Samwise]

Personally I get by just fine with a PAYG oyster and no travel card. There is a maximum daily fare on PAYG oyster which means you most you ever pay is the equivalent of a daily travel card.

I noticed this the last time I was in London (I think it was a relatively new feature at the time) and thought it was the most civilized goddamn thing I've ever seen in a transit system.  I shouldn't have to play an optimization minigame each time I get on the bus, just pretend I min/maxed and charge me appropriately.

[Yegolev]

Have you figured out where you're staying yet?

No, we haven't.  We are now being strongly suggested to get a hotel instead of a flat, which changes things a lot if we do.  We still want to stay in a "nice London neighborhood" but this trip planning is hard, and a hotel concierge would be a great help for beleaguered Yanks.

Travel thoughts are great.  Considering the cost of airfare to London, and travel prices while there are fuckawful, I'm unlikely to sweat much over choosing a cab instead of rail.  As mentioned, I'm going to have to take a look at where we are and where we will go before I can make a decision on renting a car or not.

At this point we might get overwhelmed with the cost/planning and go to Amelia Island instead.   I'll keep working on London for now.

[K9]

By and large most of London is pretty nice, there are some terrible areas, but its unlikely you'd find holiday rentals in those places anyway. I can understand the appeal of hotel services though.

[Yegolev]

Latest obstacle: the boy doesn't want to go.  Can't leave him behind, wife doesn't trust the family.

[Merusk]

Children don't get choices. 

[Yegolev]

Agreed, but mommies do.

[Lantyssa]

Leave the wife and boy behind.  Then you can visit places you wouldn't have with them along.

[Signe]

Or go to Amsterdam instead.  Spend your days in cafes and your nights in brothels.  Take up painting.  Wear women's under pants.  Stuff like that.

[Yegolev]

I don't have to go to Europe to do that stuff.

I'd really love to go to London without the family, but.  That.  Won't.  Happen.

[Merusk]

So what has the wife seen that she wants to use the money on instead at the 11th hour?

[Yegolev]

Heh, it really comes down to one item and it's not money.  She's a control freak and she is having a very hard time organizing this trip to her satisfaction.  She overdid it with Yellowstone last year, even though that was my trip (I don't know anything about anything).  We are coming off the holidays, and completed a WDW trip the first week of this month.  She just finished planning a Key West trip with a friend (I'm not going, huzzah).  This Friday we are having a sleepover with a total of four nine-year-old boys.  So, she's basically overwhelmed.

She did tell me that if Bowie comes out of retirement and does a tour to promote his new album, I'm going to get to go no matter where it is.  So there's that chip in my pocket.

I'll save this thread in my Archives for when I eventually do go to London, if it's not 2013.

[eldaec]

Kopapa is just up the road though, and I'm addicted to their black rice pudding.

Tried Kopapa last night - came away a bit disappointed. Dishes varied from bland (squid, apple and quince charlotte) to kind of interesting (pork belly spring rolls, scallops). But at £45 a head for 6 small plates+wine+dessert between 2, I think I can do better. Came across as a less accomplished Modern Pantry (which I don't rate to begin with). That said, we may have ordered badly, and the peanut butter parfait was a work of art, so given your black rice pudding comment (not on the menu last night), maybe the key is to go along post-theatre for dessert and a drink.

After dinner we went on to Twelfth Night at the Apollo, and holy shit that was anything but ordinary. I don't think I've ever seen a comic performance to match Mark Rylance's Olivia. Only runs for a couple more weeks.

[K9]

I'd gladly recommend Quo Vadis to any of y'all. The place looks formal at first glance, but was actually really relaxed. We had excellent service, and they didn't bat an eye when we asked for one of each of the starters and no mains to share (plus a couple of bites). The food was either good or great, and in the end it came to about £35 per head I think, for five starters and desert, and a couple of the 'bites', and a glass of wine for her. The crab soup was fucking brilliant I thought, and the grilled ogleshield sandwich, and the squid with fennel. I'd definitely go back.

I went out for Eritrean food in Clapham last night. It was interesting, but I don't see myself becoming a regular. The food came with injera, which is the bread they eat. The best way I can describe it is tasting and feeling like vinegary crumpets. That doesn't sound great, and really it wasn't that bad. But I think we were relieved when they brought us some extra rice to go with our platter of meat, and some forks. Place was Adulis. I'm not sure I'd go out f my way to recommend it, but if you have a hankering for Eritrean cuisine I guess it isn't bad, and the staff were really friendly. The food was similar enough in theme to what you can get at Tayaabs or similar, only more expensive and in smaller portions.

Off to Bob Bob Ricard on Wednesday, which should be fun. And I'm not paying, so that'll be even more fun.

[penfold]

Kopapa is just up the road though, and I'm addicted to their black rice pudding.

Tried Kopapa last night - came away a bit disappointed. Dishes varied from bland (squid, apple and quince charlotte) to kind of interesting (pork belly spring rolls, scallops). But at £45 a head for 6 small plates+wine+dessert between 2, I think I can do better. Came across as a less accomplished Modern Pantry (which I don't rate to begin with). That said, we may have ordered badly, and the peanut butter parfait was a work of art, so given your black rice pudding comment (not on the menu last night), maybe the key is to go along post-theatre for dessert and a drink.

Yeah I saw it wasn't on the menu any more. Oh well. I did have one very nice main course there, a steak with a really incredible cemen* butter and morcilla ragout, and I hear lots of good things about their breakfast but it's one of those places I'll pop into if theres a table rather than plan and book.

We had a table booked at Roganic today, but as I've had a recurrence of flu/cough/sore throat this week I had to cancel. Am pretty gutted really was looking forward to trying Simon Rogan's dishes and will have to go before it shuts in June.  They did let me know a new permanent restaurant is due though.

However next week I'm meeting my brother at Alvin Leungs new Bo London on Friday and am looking forward to 16 courses of molecular wankery, frivolous dry ice, glow in the dark test tube drinks and over complicated serving dishes designed for one mouthful of food. The reviews up so far haven't been up to the 2 stars his HK restaurant has, or its place on St Pellegrinos Top 100 restaurants, but will reserve judgement for when I go.


* yeh, it could well be pronounced how you think it might be. It's Turkish, and hopefully means fenugreek.

[K9]

Aw shucks, sorry you missed out on Roganic. I had my best meal of 2011 there, it's a really smashing place; wonderfully unpretentious, yet producing food of the finest order. I'm not entirely clear what the status of the place is, whe it opened it was only supposed to be there for a year, yet it still seems to be going strong, and rightfully so. I hope it sticks about for a while longer. I really want to get up to L'Enclume for the real deal, but I need to save up a few hundred squid for that one I think, or persuade someone to be REALLY nice to me.

[eldaec]

Breakfast this morning at the Wet Fish Cafe in West Hampstead.

Menu was very egg focused, fortunately they do the best eggs I've had in London. The table variously had dishes covering poached, scrambled and benedict, all cooked perfectly. Home made cakes were also great. I'm reliably informed by the friend who stood in the queue for us for 40 minutes before we arrived (no reservations at the weekend) that dinner is equally good - but can't speak for it myself.


Re: Roganic

It was always ostensibly a 2 year "pop up". So due to close in June this year. The internet says they are looking for a permanent place to move to, but no idea if that is true. Would be interested to hear views on the current menu as they've had crazy staff turnover since most reviews, it's like all the chefs come down from cumbria and go mad in the big city.