London 2013

[proudft]

The first time I went to the British Museum as a teenager in the mid-80s they had mummies on display too, great fun for any kids.  They were working on them or something the second time I visited and not on display, unfortunately.

The smell of the Mummy Room was.... pretty much exactly what you would expect.  

Oh, and the bog guy was on display too, with a glass plate over him about an inch away so you could lean in real close and look into his boggy preserved face.

Other kid-fun stuff I recall there was bunches of Viking & Roman treasure and coins.  You can zip through the highlights in a day if you are a hard taskmaster/not a sign reader, but you could easily spend three days there in just some of the sections, or up to a week if you are a slowpoke.   And it's another of the many free attractions so it's easy to just pop in and out when the mood strikes.

[Selby]

http://www.tate.org.uk/visit/tate-modern

Unless your idea of "art I'd love to see" is trash hung up on strings or feces in jars, I would stay away from the Tate.  I went and it was one of the most boring experiences I've ever had.

British Museum was where it's at though.  Great place.

[lamaros]

The Tate Modern has some really good stuff. So what if it also has some wanky modern art? The modern period is a long one and there's lots of good stuff in there. The waterlillies alone are worth visiting, plus the cy twombly, the bacon, the picasso, etc.

Depends what is up when you go, but they have good stuff.

Tate Britain is great though. I went there twice.

[Yegolev]

Great info.  Just to circle back, I didn't actually fix any sudoer gaps; I wrote a script to detect them and wrote a numbered list of recommendations for proper management of /etc/sudoers.

My budget is "I'm probably not going to be in London again".  This works in the other way as well, meaning I don't want to waste time or money.

Timeframe is summerish.  June-August inclusive.  Unless, of course, the wife changes her mind but I'm not very interested in being in London any other season.  Also, school.

Pre-paid phone is probably the way to go, I've heard this recommended several times on this board.  I feel like an old man because I don't know where I need to go get one, but my mental image is from brown people on the street corner.  That's probably incorrect.

I have been to art museums before (we have one in Atlanta, even) so I'll rank those down a bit.  Plus taking a nine-year-old to an art museum just isn't fun for anyone.  The NHM is probably going on the itinerary, though, if only because Daddy wants to do that.

Restaurants and parks are good, in general, can't get enough of that shit.  Well, the wife can.

So, the Eye.  Yes or no?  Do I want to stand in line for ninety minutes to ride a wheel for one hundred twenty minutes?

[eldaec]

Given you'd be able to do a weekday off peak slot, you should be able to avoid too much of a wait.

But if it does put you off, there are also mediocre restaurants at the top of the centre point tower or the Swiss re 'gerkin' building for alternative views.

[DraconianOne]

I have been to art museums before (we have one in Atlanta, even) so I'll rank those down a bit.  Plus taking a nine-year-old to an art museum just isn't fun for anyone.  The NHM is probably going on the itinerary, though, if only because Daddy wants to do that.

Restaurants and parks are good, in general, can't get enough of that shit.  Well, the wife can.

So, the Eye.  Yes or no?  Do I want to stand in line for ninety minutes to ride a wheel for one hundred twenty minutes?

If you're in London for a week, I'd skip the Eye. It's expensive and there will be queues even on weekdays in summer because of school holidays (unless you manage to be there during term time). But it's on the South bank just down from Museum of the Moving Image (which I love, being a film geek).

I will echo calls for NHM and Science Museum. Both are free and both have loads for the kids to do. Science Museum especially has loads of interactive exhibitions. They're currently doing something about Alan Turing (who, incidentally, also lived in Maida Vale at one time) until July next year.

Other stuff your kid might like (based on the fact that I took mine for a day out there back in February):

Buckingham Palace - you can't not go and see it. Plus nice walk through the park.
Tower Of London - Henry VIII's (and other kings) armour, medieval weapons, ghosts, crown jewels, medieval torture devices... if your kid isn't fascinated by this stuff then I don't know what to say.
Hampton Court Palace - famous maze, beautiful gardens, fantastic old building.

If you can justify getting out of London for a day, do it and go see something that is Not London. Couple of suggestions:

Windsor (40 mins on train from Paddington) - castle (built by William the Conqueror), park, nice old town, near Eton School and Runnymede.
Brighton (60 mins on train from Victoria) - it's Brighton. They say you can see France on a clear day but I don't know why you'd want to do that.

That village I posted a picture of above is only 40 minutes from Euston as well (plus a short walk across fields). Small, rural English village in the Chilterns with a couple of pubs. Most people go there to walk in the nearby National Trust forest then stop for lunch and a pint. My kids love it (we used to live there until earlier this year) but YMMV.  Nearby market town has farmers markets with local produce - it's an entirely different experience from Borough Market.

[Signe]

I used to live in Port Solent in Portsmouth and on a clear day I could very nearly almost see the Isle of Wight, especially when I closed my eyes.  You could, however, do a wine run to France with a fast RIB in about an hour.  It's been nothing but foggy and rainy for the last... it seems forever.  You should buy some of those umbrella hats for you and the family.  That way you can have your hands free to carry around all your overpriced, overtaxed, shopping.  No, srsly, I wouldn't bother with the Eye either, unless it's totally foggy... then it would be simply magical and scary.  What about that Ripley's Odditorium or whatever?  Kids should like that, right?  There's skulls and it's interactive.  And expensive, from what I hear.  Anyone ever go there?  I don't go anywhere.  I'm a mushroom.

[K9]

My main interest is in eating good english food.  I've been told it exists.  What we can do is wait until we have decided on a place to stay, then we can get into dining details.  Also grocery shopping since I'll have a nine-year-old and we won't be out every night.

No idea what sort of budget you're aiming in, but some places from cheap to not so cheap...

http://www.tayyabs.co.uk/ *
http://www.thedrapersarms.com/
http://www.arbutusrestaurant.co.uk/
http://www.harwoodarms.com/
http://www.saltyard.co.uk/ **
http://thehawksmoor.com/
http://dabbous.co.uk/
http://www.dinnerbyheston.com/

*Not really that good but an institution.
**Not at all English but just that good.

Seconding all of these suggestions, they're not all cheap (Dinner by Heston could easily run to 00s) but Tayaabs is without dispute the best loved Pakistani restaurant in London, and worth a visit. The Harwood Arms is right around the corner from where I used to live and it is brilliant; they do a fantastic scotch egg, brilliant British food, and have a pub quiz on the first tuesday of every month which is fun.

The one place I always recommend to American friends (and drag a fair few too) who doubt the quality of British food is St John Bread and Wine in Spitalfields. It is pretty inexpensive but they make arguably the best bread you can buy in London (the number of other top restaurants that serve their bread is pretty extensive). It's all lots of small-ish plates of lovely things, their terrine is fantastic and last time I went I had some incredible Abroath smokies. If you want to shell out a bit more for a more formal meal, St. John Hotel in Chinatown just got it's first Michelin Star and is genuinely brilliant. If you only go one place, go to one of these.

Other places that come to mind include Dishoom and Haandi in Knightsbridge for Indian food. The Riding House Cafe, The Garrison, The Pig's Ear, The Dean Street Townhouse (who also do a great - and possibly the best value - afternoon tea), Quo Vadis, The Modern Pantry and The Laughing Gravy for British food. Any of the Brindisa restaurants are a good bet for Spanish food, Casa Brindisa is probably the best place to eat near to the NHM and Science museums in South Ken. Lantana or Caravan for brunch. MeatLiquor (handy for lunch if you're on Oxford Street), MeatMarket, Dirty Burger, or Goodman for burgers.

For cooking yourself....

http://www.boroughmarket.org.uk/ There are other farmers markets that pop up - but this is the most institutional.
Basically most of the turkish area in N4

Super markets are unfortunately terrible.

Supermarkets aren't all so bad, but they vary a lot in quality, variety and service. Waitrose and Marks and Spencer Food are the nicest (bar whole foods, but there's only four or five of those in London). Waitrose are pretty easy to find across London and always have great staff in my experience, Marks and Spencers food halls are a bit less common. Next down on the tier is Sainsbury's which is fine, but not great. Then Tesco, which is the monolithic chain that has the largest market share. By this point you're into the stores where you only have about a 50% chance of getting a staff member who even speaks english, let alone wants to help you. If you can find a Cooperative Food they are generally good and have some really good own-brand food. After that you're into the territory of Lidl (pile it high, sell it cheap, no frills but not bad), Aldi (same as Lidl) and Asda (British Wal-Mart, literally). Last time I went to Asda I almost got run over by a staff member on one of those sit-on street sweeper machines, cleaning up whatever shit the other customers had seen fit to throw all over the floor. I haven't been back since. Note that a lot of the Tescos and Sainsburys you see will be the 'Metro' or 'Local' versions of the supermarkets, which means they are smaller, mroe expensive and have less range. My suggestion to you would be to organise an on-line shop somewhere like Waitrose for all your basics (cereal, toilet roll, butter, eggs, pasta etc) then pick the rest up from wherever.

If you like cheese you owe it to yourself to check out the cheese rooms at Whole Foods Kensington and John Lewis on Oxford Street and either of the Neil's Yard Dairies (Borough Market or Covent Garden). There's also the La Cave a Fromage next to the station in South Kensington, worth a visit if you're in the area for the NHM and Science museums.

Other shit you shouldn't skip :

http://www.shakespearesglobe.com - assuming the youngun can cope - buy standing tickets, and only for an actual shakespeare play.
http://www.tate.org.uk/visit/tate-modern
http://www.londoneye.com/
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/ - the science museum is cool too, but not as cool as this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms - if in season and there is a concert that isn't too heavy

They aren't really objectively that amazing, but I'm also a big fan of the maritime museums in Greenwich. The refurbed cutty sark and observatory espeicially.

http://www.rmg.co.uk/


What time of year are we talking about?

Agree with all of these except the globe. The globe is fantastic, and the standard of the productions is top-notch, but having been there a couple of times I cannot see it being any fun for a 9yo. They won't be able to see the stage, they'll probably struggle to stay interested in what's going on, and I doubt they'll enjoy standing for 3-4 hours. You know your kid best, but I'd say this is one you might want to skip.

My budget is "I'm probably not going to be in London again".  This works in the other way as well, meaning I don't want to waste time or money.

My advise would be to make the most of all the free stuff you can do that's great (a lot of the stuff that's been listed here) and spend your money on nice dinners. But then I'm a foodie, so I'm biased.

So, the Eye.  Yes or no?  Do I want to stand in line for ninety minutes to ride a wheel for one hundred twenty minutes?

I have a bit of a soft spot for the eye, it's the one touristy thing I think is half-decent. That said, I probably wouldn't go on it at the peak of summer. You can get good views of the cityscape from Parliament Hill or Primrose Hill. Alternatively there's a bar up on the 32nd floor of Centre Point that has a phenomenal view, I don't know how they take to kids though. There's also Duck and Waffle which is a fab restaurant and bar on the 40th floor of Heron Tower, they'd probably be better with kids I'd imagine. There is another good view from the Walkways over Tower Bridge. Lastly one option that will be open to you, but isn't yet (so I can't vouch for it) is The View from The Shard. It's the highest you will be able to get in the city, but I have a suspicion that it could be quite expensive. Might be good to combo up with Borough Market though since the Shard is right next to the Market.

Um, other stuff to avoid:

Aberdeen Angus
Gourmet Burger Kitchen
Garfunkels
Planet Hollywood
Hard Rock Cafe
Strada
Cafe Rouge
Med Kitchen

If you go to any of these places then complain about the food in London being bad I will find you and punch you in the dick.

[Tale]

Um, other stuff to avoid:

Aberdeen Angus

I gather that's the name of an eating place. Beef from the Aberdeen Angus breed of cattle is excellent.

[ghost]

I always enjoyed Wagamama, but it may not be that good anymore.  I think we went to the one in Soho, but it was fucking eons ago.

[K9]

Wagamama is ok in a pinch, but it isn't as good as it used to be. After Alan Yau sold the chain to a private equity company the portion sizes have shrunk and the quality has dipped and it's not just quite the same. The only chain restaurants I rate personally are Wahaca, Carluccios, Byron and Le Pain Quotidien. Not all perfect, but all can be relied on for a good meal.

[penfold]

I always enjoyed Wagamama, but it may not be that good anymore.  I think we went to the one in Soho, but it was fucking eons ago.

Wagamamas is ok, there are quite a few new noodle bars in the West End that are better and similar prices but if you're in a shopping centre somewhere Wagamamas is very handy.  Although there are many fine dining places in London if you are going to do one go to the aforementioned Dinner. My review here.

Other nice places to go that may not have been mentioned yet:

Marylebone High Street is nice for mostly window shopping and somewhere to find a decent lunch. Portobello Road Market is a Saturday antiques market with all sorts of interesting stuff, although it gets very busy. The Imperial War Museum is fantastic. The South Bank has enough things to fill an afternoon.  Churchill War Rooms are cool. Spitalfields is a nice area and market if you want to also see various sites in the City. You can go up Monument and get some good views. Not much point in going further East, Canary Wharf is a sterile collection of offices and the Olympic Park is closed until 2014. Out of London - A train down to Brighton for the day might be cool. The kids will love the Pier, the beach front has all sorts of arts and activities. The Pavillion is stunning, and The Lanes are an area of small independent shops with some really cool stuff.  Cambridge is worth a visit for a real taste of a historical provincial city.

[eldaec]

Wagamama is ok in a pinch, but it isn't as good as it used to be. After Alan Yau sold the chain to a private equity company the portion sizes have shrunk and the quality has dipped and it's not just quite the same. The only chain restaurants I rate personally are Wahaca, Carluccios, Byron and Le Pain Quotidien. Not all perfect, but all can be relied on for a good meal.

I'd add Leon to that, and stress Byron specifically, for a US comparison I rate their burgers above Shake Shack.

[K9]

I forgot Leon. Byron is my first choice for burgers if I'm generally out and about in London, I can't compare them to Shake Shack since I've never had that sadly.

Also, everything penfold suggested. If it's a nice day you can do a lot worse than simply walk along the South Bank from Borough Market to Lambeth Bridge. Westminster Abbey and St. Pauls are also two beautiful buildings without any parallel in the US.

[ghost]

Wagamama is ok in a pinch, but it isn't as good as it used to be. After Alan Yau sold the chain to a private equity company the portion sizes have shrunk and the quality has dipped and it's not just quite the same. The only chain restaurants I rate personally are Wahaca, Carluccios, Byron and Le Pain Quotidien. Not all perfect, but all can be relied on for a good meal.

Examining the website it appears to have changed quite a bit.  We used to get beer orders standing in line.  I'm not even sure it was a "chain", per se, when I was in London.  There may have only been a couple of them.  It was definitely top notch at the time.  It makes me sad that it appears to have become a PF Changs.

[apocrypha]

I was *born* in London, but not having been there for 15 years I am finding this thread is very useful.

I might have to arrange a holiday there, you guys are making it sound much nicer than I thought it was 

[eldaec]

For food specifically I'd honestly rank it 3rd globally, only behind Taipei and New York. Maybe San Sebastian.

For museums and galleries, second to Washington DC.

For stage based arts it beats everywhere, not least because of sheer variety.

For sport it has tonnes of options but tickets are a nightmare.

[ghost]

I was *born* in London, but not having been there for 15 years I am finding this thread is very useful.

I might have to arrange a holiday there, you guys are making it sound much nicer than I thought it was 

Being from the sticks in Kentucky, I fucking loved it.  The only negative was the expense. 

[palmer_eldritch]

As a local I feel I should say something, although you’ve had lots of good advice already.

Maida Vale is just fine, as long as the property is near a Tube (also known as the London Underground) station. Almost anywhere near a Tube station should work. You’ll be taking the Tube to get to places.

Waitrose and Marks & Spencer are supermarkets used by “ordinary Brits”, albeit the slightly wealthier ones, and they’re very pleasant.

Borough Market – that’s by London Bridge tube station – is a lot of fun and there’s a stall there that sells fantastic tea. There’s also a lovely little pub nearby called The Rake. I appreciate you won’t spend a lot of time in pubs with a child in tow but if you fancy a quick pint then you could do worse. On the theme of booze, London’s best whisky shop imho is also nearby – it’s called The Whisky Exchange.

As you are on holiday and probably don’t mind being a little silly with your money, you could also check out Fortnum & Mason and Harrods. Harrods food hall is great for tea, marmalade, British-style biscuits and other Britishy things.

Yes to the Science edit: I mean British Museum and Natural History museum. Also, I’d suggest the National Gallery. It’s nice and central, at Trafalgar Square in the heart of London, it’s free and it’s always fun to see the actual original paintings by some pretty famous artists (Rembrandt, Monet, Titian, Rubens, Michelangelo, Botticelli, van Gogh etc).

You probably want to go on a little walk around the Whitehall/Buckingham Palace area of London. It takes in Trafalgar Square, Buckingham Palace, Whitehall – this is a road where many British government buildings are located, along with some statues – the Houses of Parliament and Westminster Abbey (where Kate & William were married among other things). They’re all pretty close to each other so take a walk, don’t jump in the tube I’d suggest. You'll need to check when Parliament does tours if you want to go inside.

A nice restaurant which does British food is Shepherds. I also strongly recommend J Sheekey if you like fish. There is a man outside wearing a top hat who will open the door for you, so it must be good, right? (Seriously, it is good).

Personally I like Indian, Chinese and Japanese food a lot, but obviously there’s no shortage of that in the US either.  Nonetheless, I strongly recommend Dishoom, for affordable “Indian” food – it’s actually Persian via Mumbai (or Bombay as the café puts it). The world’s greatest, and possibly most expensive, curry house is the Cinammon Club. Absolutely fantastic.

For a cheapish Japanese-style place try Bincho in Soho. No Sushi – they grill small portions of meat or fish and put them on skewers. If you want to splash out then I recommend Matsuri.

London also has some lovely parks, right in the heart of the city.

Do you like theatre? (stage - movie theatres are generally called cinemas) London has loads of them, sometimes with well-known actors (Jude Law, Helen Mirren & Daniel Radcliffe at the moment among others). I guess your child might not put up with two hours of Henry V but they might love War Horse (complete with life-size puppet horses – it’s a lot better than it sounds;) Yes it was a play before it was a movie!) Or there’s always musicals like The Lion King or Matilda.

I could go on but that’s probably more than enough from me!

[DraconianOne]

I was *born* in London, but not having been there for 15 years I am finding this thread is very useful.

I might have to arrange a holiday there, you guys are making it sound much nicer than I thought it was 

There's lots of good stuff to do but it's a horrible place - personally I certainly wouldn't suggest a holiday there, especially given where you live. I fucking hated living and working there so I left 10 years ago for a place in the country. I had managed to persuade the missus that a move back up to Leeds would be a good thing but jobs and circumstances worked against us - so that's off the cards for now.

[Yegolev]

Do I need someone to assist me in a grocery store?  Last time I was in a Tesco I found what I wanted easily enough since it was so small.

[Miasma]

If they try to trick you into buying that mushrooms on toast crap just punch then in the face and run.

[palmer_eldritch]

Do I need someone to assist me in a grocery store?  Last time I was in a Tesco I found what I wanted easily enough since it was so small.

Um no? Not sure if I'm missing something, why would you need assistance?:) But there will be people wandering around in store uniforms you can hassle if need be.

Edit: Ah you were responding to something K9 said above. Nah , you'll be fine.

[apocrypha]

There's lots of good stuff to do but it's a horrible place - personally I certainly wouldn't suggest a holiday there, especially given where you live. I fucking hated living and working there so I left 10 years ago for a place in the country. I had managed to persuade the missus that a move back up to Leeds would be a good thing but jobs and circumstances worked against us - so that's off the cards for now.

Yeah I think a day trip is probably more in order :)

As for Leeds, well, we're moving to just North of Manchester in a few weeks hopefully, which will be interesting. I'll miss Leeds, great city, but having been here 8 years now I'm ready for a change.

[K9]

Do I need someone to assist me in a grocery store?  Last time I was in a Tesco I found what I wanted easily enough since it was so small.

It's not a huge point, more illustrative of the service of the different stores. On the odd occasions where I haven't been able to find what I want I usually find that at somewhere like Tescos the staff member will take me back to the isle where I had just spent the last 3-4mins looking, only to spend 2-3mins looking themselves before telling me that they don't stock what I want. At Waitrose the staff always seem to know the full inventory of the store. They are also far better at bagging things at the till; no heavy bottles stacked on top of fruit and egg situations.

/grumble

[Njal]

http://www.londonwalks.com/

They have dozens of cheap, interesting walking tours that run around 2 hours long and start from tube stations. I have gone on at least 20 over the years and the worst one was still good ranging all the way up to great.

[Yegolev]

Ah, walking tours, nice.

Discussed things with the wife.  She's still interested in cultural immersion, so we will continue looking for "Ye Olde" neighborhoods.  But driving to the green belt isn't out the window.

As for grocery stores, I have had arguments with people in the local ones about how lemon juice doesn't belong with drinking juices.  I seem to be in the minority on this.

Draconian, have you been to Atlanta?  I need to know if you know what you are talking about.

[K9]

If you're looking for somewhere with more of a 'villagey' feel, the closest you can get in London is Barnes, which is pretty much a village smack dab in the middle of SW London. The other place to look at would be West Hampstead, but I'd bet on these being pricier options than Maida Vale.

[palmer_eldritch]

You can find lovely big green parks without driving out to the green belt too. Try Richmond Park - it has deer and a nice view. I think it belongs to The Queen so it's a bit Old Worldy by default I guess. The King of England used to hunt his deer there. (I mean, I don't know if you care about that stuff but if you're looking for a bit of Merry Olde England it might work:)

[DraconianOne]

Draconian, have you been to Atlanta?  I need to know if you know what you are talking about.

I have approximate knowledge of many things.

[Yegolev]

You can find lovely big green parks without driving out to the green belt too. Try Richmond Park - it has deer and a nice view. I think it belongs to The Queen so it's a bit Old Worldy by default I guess. The King of England used to hunt his deer there. (I mean, I don't know if you care about that stuff but if you're looking for a bit of Merry Olde England it might work:)

I live in the middle of a hay field, so I would be more interested in gardens.  I'm not actually thinking Middle Ages, more like what a typical Modern English would do (nyuk nyuk).  Might be hard to explain.  Jane Goodall might be the best analogy.  Trouble is, people with the pertinent info are all like "What the shit do you want to go to London for?"  Reminds me of how when I told Scots that I was just visiting their country to see the sights, they looked at me like I was a fookin moran.

[Signe]

To be honest, I can't stay a city person for long.  London is fun for a while but I wouldn't want to live here forever.  I like woods and bugs and stuff.  I will miss my 20-some pigeons group named Hank but I'll be glad to leave for my sister's in December.  I don't know where I'm off to after that.  Probably back this way or somewhere else in Europe.  Dunno.  I only came here because my husband basically told me to go to hell.   

[Lantyssa]

London isn't that bad, is it?  I'm sure I could think of much more hellish places.

[eldaec]

London is great so long as you like cities.

Clearly it is not for you if you hate buildings or are tired of life.

[eldaec]

As you mention gardens, has anyone recommended Kew Gardens yet?

They are fairly impressive and is the sort of attraction you can spy English people in the mist at.