Dungeon Chat

[Ingmar]

I want to say each tick of the AE smite will contribute to the burning virture stack, but its such a cluster fuck most of the time I can't say for sure.


That would be my current complaint overall. I can be fighting the same mobs for 10 minutes without any issue at all, then randomly those same mobs suddenly kick the living shit out of me and I have no idea why. It's not like a veteran sneaking in or anything, it's just regular mobs, that I have been murdering without issue for awhile, suddenly dismantling me.

Hi there! 

I have no idea what that is!

My only guess on the occasional stomping that comes out of nowhere is that there's something goofy connected to how stuff scales with multiple players. Like maybe someone wanders into the bubble and suddenly a mob is hitting like a champ because its got an incorrect flag or something.

[bhodi]

I split this off; use this thread for talking about dungeons, other hard encounters and specs to use against them. Use the other one for quick tricks and tips.

That's a mob that would stun as you ran past in final fantasy 11. It was a real asshole.

[01101010]

I have no idea what that is!

My only guess on the occasional stomping that comes out of nowhere is that there's something goofy connected to how stuff scales with multiple players. Like maybe someone wanders into the bubble and suddenly a mob is hitting like a champ because its got an incorrect flag or something.

That would be a rarab - FFXI's version of a rabbit. The story goes, back in the day, you'd be soloing your ass to 10-15 in order to make a frantic, terrifying run to Valkurum Dunes to start party grinding. During this me-time soloing, you'd go about killing minor mobs that con'd easy prey or decent challenge. Among those were the cute fuzzy rarabs. However, as you traversed the landscape slaughtering these fine creatures, you would inevitably come across one that would completely annihilate you even though it had no discernible difference from any of the other rarabs in name or constitution. For whatever reason, your damage just would not make a dent and this mob would hit you for much more than previously encountered - and yes, these fuckers would do an AoE whirl claws that hit for a pretty large amount and also stunned - you gave a person a wide berth if they were fighting this mob as not to get hit.

I can't find the article that talks about it, but everyone I know came across a mob like it. That one mob that would just mop that floor with you and send you back to the crystal - even though it really should not have.

[Raknor]

Saw people advertising for a 16min CoF explore mode run. I haven't gotten to that level yet but isn't that like 25s a run?  Seems like you'd be able to print money at that speed.

Think I need to hurry up and level before this one gets a patch. It sounds too good to be true.

[Genev]

I jsut finished off the zone where that dungeon entrance is, and moved to a zone with another dungeon entrance... the difference in map chat is insane. On the bright side, you'll never be looking for a group long if you want to do CoF, downside, you better not want to take your time or try other paths in the dungeon because nobody will do anything else than the Magg (fastest) one :/

[Zetor]

Saw people advertising for a 16min CoF explore mode run. I haven't gotten to that level yet but isn't that like 25s a run?  Seems like you'd be able to print money at that speed.

Think I need to hurry up and level before this one gets a patch. It sounds too good to be true.

The money thing is pretty interesting by itself, with the cash shop and all. Though even as a non-grinding level 80, I made enough gold to buy all the bank/char slots I'd need for now... still, who is going to buy gems at this rate?

[Sky]

Casuals who are the target demo after the achievers move on?

I've got less than a gold across my three characters.

[Ingmar]

Saw people advertising for a 16min CoF explore mode run. I haven't gotten to that level yet but isn't that like 25s a run?  Seems like you'd be able to print money at that speed.

Think I need to hurry up and level before this one gets a patch. It sounds too good to be true.

The money thing is pretty interesting by itself, with the cash shop and all. Though even as a non-grinding level 80, I made enough gold to buy all the bank/char slots I'd need for now... still, who is going to buy gems at this rate?

People like me who hit 60 with 2 gold and need to buy their 10g book? I haven't bought gems, yet, but generating gold doesn't seem to be as easy as people are implying. I had more than enough to buy my books at 20 and 40 (or was it 10 and 40) but gold generation has not increased 10-fold, not even close, from 40-60.

[WayAbvPar]

Did my first dungeon last night (AC story). Wow. That shit is hard! Really interesting though. We had 2 guardians, so I think we were better off than some groups, but we still wiped numerous times. Had one guy bail after 1 fight with the twins, but managed to find an experienced replacement who was very helpful. Really makes me want to learn all my skills more in depth- other PVE is so trivial that I barely know what anything does. Alternated between staff (for cc, condition treatment, and heals) and greatsword (for dps at the end of fights). Mace and shield might have been better, but I don't have updated equipment for those slots atm.

[Zetor]

Saw people advertising for a 16min CoF explore mode run. I haven't gotten to that level yet but isn't that like 25s a run?  Seems like you'd be able to print money at that speed.

Think I need to hurry up and level before this one gets a patch. It sounds too good to be true.

The money thing is pretty interesting by itself, with the cash shop and all. Though even as a non-grinding level 80, I made enough gold to buy all the bank/char slots I'd need for now... still, who is going to buy gems at this rate?

People like me who hit 60 with 2 gold and need to buy their 10g book? I haven't bought gems, yet, but generating gold doesn't seem to be as easy as people are implying. I had more than enough to buy my books at 20 and 40 (or was it 10 and 40) but gold generation has not increased 10-fold, not even close, from 40-60.

It could be that wvw gold rewards suck (especially with all the armor repairs). I did a pretty straight run through pve zones (not farming events or anything), didn't sell anything on the AH, kept artifice/tailor crafting up to speed, vendored/salvaged blue gear, gave away / banked / used green+ gear. I was always able to buy the books... had about 9g to my name when I hit 80. I -did- 100% complete zones though -- not sure how much gold that brings in.

[Ingmar]

I've actually barely WvWed - I've been 100%ing as well. Have you been crafting, or just selling gathered mats? I suspect I'd be a hell of a lot closer if I was just AHing the stuff I picked up rather than trying desperately to skill up my crafting (and not being able to keep up on that without buying mats on the AH - which I have not been doing.)

[Zetor]

I levelled both artifice and tailoring as I levelled, didn't sell anything I made (or harvested) on the AH. I did buy a few low-level fine (blue) materials to level tailor past the newbie tier, but only after 100%-ing all but one of the lowbie zones. Artifice is at 400, tailoring at 367 (though about 1/3 of that tailoring skill only came after I hit 80 and decided to 100% a few more lowbie zones to get more of those blue materials)

[Maledict]

We did AC in exploratory mode last night, choosing the Ghost Eater path. Now partly because we were over levelled, partly because of better design but also partly because we knew how to play together better it went very smoothly. We wiped once on each boss to learn the abilities, but it never felt 'unfair' or cheesy and was actually a great deal of fun. Really enjoyed the first fight when he drags everyone in the group in and one shots you, and figuring out that if you dodge when he puts his blade behind his back made it a really fun fight.

The entire 'no tanks, no healers' concept seemed to start to come together for my group.

[WayAbvPar]

I love the way you can swap weapons and/or attunements in midfight to fulfill more than 1 role depending on how it is going.

[Ingmar]

I levelled both artifice and tailoring as I levelled, didn't sell anything I made (or harvested) on the AH. I did buy a few low-level fine (blue) materials to level tailor past the newbie tier, but only after 100%-ing all but one of the lowbie zones. Artifice is at 400, tailoring at 367 (though about 1/3 of that tailoring skill only came after I hit 80 and decided to 100% a few more lowbie zones to get more of those blue materials)

So it turns out the issue was that I was totally misremembering the price of the level 60 book, and never went back to the merchant to confirm that. 

[Modern Angel]

We did AC in exploratory mode last night, choosing the Ghost Eater path. Now partly because we were over levelled, partly because of better design but also partly because we knew how to play together better it went very smoothly. We wiped once on each boss to learn the abilities, but it never felt 'unfair' or cheesy and was actually a great deal of fun. Really enjoyed the first fight when he drags everyone in the group in and one shots you, and figuring out that if you dodge when he puts his blade behind his back made it a really fun fight.

The entire 'no tanks, no healers' concept seemed to start to come together for my group.

Did this path last night and it was thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyable. Fast, just the right difficulty, fun. Loved the last boss, too.

They really need to adjust the costs of the dungeon set rewards, though. They are astronomical. While GW1 was never grind averse, this is way too much. Roughly ten runs for one piece plus, what, six pieces? Sixty runs of ONE dungeon over and over is a little much.

[Tmon]

They really need to adjust the costs of the dungeon set rewards, though. They are astronomical. While GW1 was never grind averse, this is way too much. Roughly ten runs for one piece plus, what, six pieces? Sixty runs of ONE dungeon over and over is a little much.

That actually doesn't sound too much different from what I remember hearing about people running raids to gear up in WoW, except that what you got was entirely random so you could luck out and get stuff faster than average.

[Miasma]

I don't like the dungeons.  Regardless of whether or not you like difficulty they are just badly designed.  Too much trash, the plotline linking them together is shit and the fights are just scatter brained.  Rewards suck for the amount of time they take too.  Without designated tank/healer/dps roles every fight is just the same damn thing.  Keep moving, spam the abilities the boss doesn't reflect/heal from and revive people as they die to the boss' autoattack and unavoidable damage.  Everyone does the same thing and it mostly involves flailing about.

After most every story mode I say to myself "never again".

[Nebu]

Kite the mob in a big circle while avoiding X mechanic. 

The dungeons are more trouble than they're worth.  They aren't all that fun, are poorly balanced for casual players, and the loot tables discourage the effort. 

[Zetor]

Yep, kinda like how Underworld / Fissure of Woe / Domain of Anguish were in GW1.
I heart Arenanet, but they're really not very good at this "balance small-group content" thing.

e: and I say this as someone who actually found the non-AC dungeons kinda fun, though obviously not as fun as (insert WOW instance that is not Oculus here)

[Maledict]

The exploratory modes seem light years ahead of the story modes, for various reasons.

Story modes the risk versus reward simply isn't there - the only reason to do them once is to unlock exploratory mode. Exploratory mode the dungeons seem more interesting and you get a reward for it you can use. (also seemed to give shed loads of cash comparatively - 25 silver on the last boss alone).

Also, story mode forces you to interact with Destinys Edge, which is shit. Exploratory mode I get to be the hero not some whiny charr or moronic human.

[Ingmar]

They really need to adjust the costs of the dungeon set rewards, though. They are astronomical. While GW1 was never grind averse, this is way too much. Roughly ten runs for one piece plus, what, six pieces? Sixty runs of ONE dungeon over and over is a little much.

That actually doesn't sound too much different from what I remember hearing about people running raids to gear up in WoW, except that what you got was entirely random so you could luck out and get stuff faster than average.

Uh yeah, not even close. You would have to be historically unlucky to take anywhere near that long to finish gearing  from a given WoW raid. WoW slows you down with lockouts far more than with drop rates.

[Zetor]

Depends if you were one of the lucky ones with 100 Gandling kills and no Dreadmist hat*, or 100 Drak kills and no deflector. 

* yeah I know there were other dungeon items that had better stats, but I needed the full set for tier0.5

[Ard]

Plus there's no real reason you HAVE to grind.  It's strictly for cosmetic looks for the most part.  You can get gear with the same stats from a bunch of other, much easier sources at 80.

[Modern Angel]

Oh, for sure. And I've always been in the camp (since GW1) which says that there's something oddly refreshing about a system which has people gearing up just to look badass. That's kind of cool. I waltzed into the TP the second I hit 80, snagged a complete set of 80 yellows, and I'm square. I just look kind of dumb.

But the numbers are just a little discouraging and there's a vital piece missing from how GW1 handled the grind, which is everything used to get the best looking armor not being tradable. If you didn't want to grind Ectos in the GW1 "dungeons", you could just buy them if you had the cash. If you weren't interested in the armor, but didn't mind grinding the mats, you could make money. I can't do that here (I can do it with Legendary Weapons, only, assuming they're not soulbound) and it makes what is otherwise a totally manageable system a little more intimidating.

And the Karma costs for Cultural Armor is hoooooo boy.

[Ingmar]

What karma cost for cultural armor? Only the weapons cost karma, the cultural armor is just shitloads of gold, last I looked.

[Modern Angel]

I may have mixed up the armor and the weapons.

[Ingmar]

To be fair, the gold cost is also hooooo boy.

[Kageru]

They want their content to have longevity, and that basically means grind. It's probably going to be a while before there's a substantial packet of new content and they want something for people hanging around to do.

You can see the same thing in their achievement system.

[Genev]

If you ahve a Mesmer in the group (and a lot of practice) there's a really fast way to grind 8 Orrian shards in 20 mins by farming the first 2 bosses of the Warden/Forgotten Arah explorable mode, by skipping all the trash with the Mesmer's portal, invisibility fields, and having other people use speedboosts.
It's not easy to figure out the exact places to stand and so on though, it seems Very exact, so no idea if they'll nerf that like they probably will CoF Explorable 2.
Ranger's also useful to pull the first 2 bosses separate from each other.

[murdoc]

You know, I don't mind grind when it's for vanity items and ways to look unique. Grind kills me when it's for gear that is necessary to be either productive in PvP or in order to continue playing without rolling an alt.

[Ingmar]

I may have mixed up the armor and the weapons.

There's apparently something called exotic armor, that DOES cost karma, in addition to the cultural armor that costs gold.

[kildorn]

Exotic is a tier of rarity above Rare. Masterwork is Green, Rare is yellow, Exotic is.. dark orange I think?

Cultural Armor (your race specific stuff) is sold for cash and is Rare I believe (yellow)

Faction Armor (your faction. Vigil, whatnot) is sold for cash and is Rare. Also, far cheaper than Cultural.

Dungeon Armor is Rare or Exotic, and costs dungeon tokens.

Exotic Sets are Exotic, and cost Karma (42k/piece) and come from various special vendors in Orr. There are I think 6 different sets of this stuff, all with their own looks.

Just like GW1, there are way too fucking many armor sets, and most are crazy expensive. Give it a month for someone to post all the armor set looks in a nice grid.

[Miasma]

Yeah dark orange.  Then legendary, which is above exotic, is red.  Some of the crafting components for the legendaries are purple.  Good thing I'm not color blind because they use pretty much the whole rainbow.

The orange gear costs about 45k karma, doesn't seem worth it.

[Tyrnan]

Just like GW1, there are way too fucking many armor sets, and most are crazy expensive. Give it a month for someone to post all the armor set looks in a nice grid.

I think most of them are covered here:
Cultural Armour and Weapons
42k Karma Armour