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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  PC/Console Gaming  |  Topic: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN  (Read 261090 times)
koro
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Reply #3605 on: June 25, 2017, 08:22:50 AM

As much as I might enjoy it being otherwise, this is probably a nothingburger. CIG are little more than a shell company that exists to pay Chris Roberts and a couple of other people. Most of the money for Star Citizen moves through Squadron 42; this is more likely a kind of personal loan or for tax shelter reasons.
jakonovski
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Reply #3606 on: June 25, 2017, 08:59:41 AM

Could be, but do you need to, or can you, put the entire company that has rights to Squadron 42/Star Citizen as collateral then?
schild
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Reply #3607 on: June 25, 2017, 09:08:27 AM

ayyyyyyyyy this is their exit strategy

sick
HaemishM
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Reply #3608 on: June 25, 2017, 02:25:17 PM

I mean, they only got $150 million from the suckers fans. How you supposed to make a game with that?

Velorath
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Reply #3609 on: June 25, 2017, 02:42:41 PM

Their supposed internal schedule is hilarious as well.  3.0 was announced at last year's Gamescom as coming out by the end of 2016 by Roberts himself. Obviously that didn't happen and it wasn't until near the end of April that they started posting their schedule for 3.0's progress. At that point it was due in the earliest form of testing on 6/5 and live on 6/29. Not surprisingly, as the weeks have gone on there's shockingly been an almost corresponding amount of delays. Now early testing is scheduled for sometime between 7/6-7/20 (the moved from a set date to a window of time probably because it gives them more flexibility on when they need to give people the next bullshit number) and live sometime between 8/4-8/10. So in about 2 months progress they've announced 5-6 weeks of delays. At the same time, they've been stripping content out of the patch (for instance they were supposed to have some planets ready but now they'll just have a couple moons). So minimum 8 months late, missing content, and will probably get shoved out broken around the time of this year's Gamescom just in time for another funding drive.
Ironwood
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Reply #3610 on: June 25, 2017, 03:00:35 PM

This has made my night.

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jakonovski
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Reply #3611 on: June 25, 2017, 03:12:58 PM

Here's the company line:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/re-uk-tax-rebate-advance-for-foundry-42

Quote
We have noticed the speculations created by a posting on the website of UK’s Company House with respect to Coutt’s security for our UK Tax Rebate advance, and we would like to provide you with the following insight to help prevent some of the misinformation we have seen.

Our UK companies are entitled to a Government Game tax credit rebate which we earn every month on the Squadron 42 development. These rebates are payable by the UK Government in the fall of the next following year when we file our tax returns.  Foundry 42 and its parent company Cloud Imperium Games UK Ltd. have elected to partner with Coutts, a highly regarded, very selective, and specialized UK banking institution, to obtain a regular advance against this rebate, which will allow us to avoid converting unnecessarily other currencies into GBP.  We obviously incur a significant part of our expenditures in GBP while our collections are mostly in USD and EUR.  Given today's low interest rates versus the ongoing and uncertain currency fluctuations, this is simply a smart money management move, which we implemented upon recommendation of our financial advisors.

The collateral granted in connection with this discounting loan is absolutely standard and pertains to our UK operation only, which develops Squadron 42.  As a careful review of the security will show and contrary to some irresponsible and misleading reports, the collateral specifically excludes “Star Citizen.”   The UK Government rebate entitlement, which is audited and certified by our outside auditors on a quarterly basis, is the prime collateral. Per standard procedure in banking, our UK companies of course stand behind the loan and guarantee repayment which, however, given the reliability of the discounted asset (a UK Government payment) is a formality and nothing else. This security does not affect our UK companies’ ownership and control of their assets.  Obviously, the UK Government will not default on its rebate obligations which will be used for repayment, and even then the UK companies have ample assets to repay the loan, even in such an eventuality which is of course unthinkable.  

This should clarify the matter. Thank you.

So if I understand correctly, the line is "the US company totally has money this is just more convenient".

I also like how the collateral excludes Star Citizen. Which is academic because without Squadron 42 there will be no Star Citizen.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 03:14:29 PM by jakonovski »
schild
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Reply #3612 on: June 25, 2017, 03:49:15 PM

Quote
Obviously, the UK Government will not default on its rebate obligations which will be used for repayment, and even then the UK companies have ample assets to repay the loan, even in such an eventuality which is of course unthinkable.

Oh, yes, 2017, the year you want to bet against the unthinkable.

Chris Roberts, you should consider drinking a bucket of bleach.
patience
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Reply #3613 on: June 25, 2017, 04:06:35 PM

I wondered when they would run out of funds because it was a given that they eventually would. Because if the article is true this is basically a "we have run out of money and funding options at this point" move. Also a last ditch effort because no publisher will fund them and no studio will buy them if a bank controls all of the IP and assets.

Next step: massive layoffs and chapter 11.

They haven't run out of funds yet. Foundary 42 is a subsidiary of Cloud Imperium and has "positive" "profit" growth because Cloud Imperium holds the $157 million and doles it out to the individual studios.

Even using Serek Dmart's estimates on yearly expenses Cloud Imperium shouldn't run out of money until January 2019. That's why they can still make monthly payments to both loans.


What matters the most now is how much they have to pay off monthly? Can the ship a product by 2020 because it sounds like they will be dangerously low on cash by then.

OP is assuming its somewhat of a design-goal of eve to make players happy.
this is however not the case.
Sir T
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Reply #3614 on: June 25, 2017, 04:43:05 PM

Could it ship in 3 years time? 3 tears would have been an insane length of time to make this thing. This is year 5. The Last Guardian only took 9 years and Duke Nukem Forever 13 years.

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #3615 on: June 25, 2017, 04:44:58 PM

Insolvency happens when the total liabilities exceed total assets or when you run out of liquidity. In most jurisdictions this is already the case when you can reasonably expect one of the two to happen within a certain timeframe. So you can be insolvent even though you're still able to pay the bills if your liabilities are too high and you have negative cash flow.

If they claim insolvency the moment they run out of cash we're long past the point of actual insolvency and deep in the area of criminal proceeedings due to delayed filing for insolvency which is a felony in most jurisdictions.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #3616 on: June 25, 2017, 04:50:58 PM

Could it ship in 3 years time? 3 tears would have been an insane length of time to make this thing. This is year 5. The Last Guardian only took 9 years and Duke Nukem Forever 13 years.

To whom though? Kickstarter backers are entitled to a copy of the finished game. There will be no additional sales of copies there. They seem to have extracted most of the money from the die hard lunatic fans as well at this point.

For a mainstream audience this game (if it ever becomes one that is) is both too niche and there is not enough hype surrounding it to garner any sort of day 1 momentum (there will be no No Man's Sky sort of hype). Also mainstream buyers expect it to be agame and not be a buggy mess.

The only reason this is still going is because Roberts can still milk his die hard fans for cash. If he ever releases the game that will be over.
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Reply #3617 on: June 25, 2017, 05:41:41 PM

Jeff's point bears repeating. CIG has frontloaded its revenue via Kickstarter and selling jpegs but they've taken out a loan on the tail of their income stream. Either they expect that they can continue to pull in <repayments+operating costs+Chris Roberts' toys fund> indefinitely or whoever lent them money has had smoke blown up their ass.

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #3618 on: June 25, 2017, 06:01:00 PM

This loan is a factoring for future tax credits, it is predicated on the presumption that they will continue to qualify for the credit (keep paying people in the UK to work on a video game) and that those credits will continue to be paid by the UK government. No larger context than that, not a sign of anything but uncertainty over UK politics.

--Dave

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patience
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Reply #3619 on: June 25, 2017, 07:55:10 PM

This loan is a factoring for future tax credits, it is predicated on the presumption that they will continue to qualify for the credit (keep paying people in the UK to work on a video game) and that those credits will continue to be paid by the UK government. No larger context than that, not a sign of anything but uncertainty over UK politics.

--Dave


Sure it's not a sign of guaranteed failure but if I kickstarted  this game I would be pissed they put up the entire game to be controlled by a bank if they did fail a payment.


They shouldn't even be in this theoretical scenario with Grand Theft Auto budget money.

OP is assuming its somewhat of a design-goal of eve to make players happy.
this is however not the case.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #3620 on: June 25, 2017, 08:30:47 PM

Sure it's not a sign of guaranteed failure but if I kickstarted  this game I would be pissed they put up the entire game to be controlled by a bank if they did fail a payment.


They shouldn't even be in this theoretical scenario with Grand Theft Auto budget money.
And you think that *this* will be the cold shock of water that makes them question their reality?

--Dave

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schild
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Reply #3621 on: June 25, 2017, 09:44:42 PM

I'm 100% sure the crossover between Star Citizen Apes and Trump voters is huuuuuge.
jakonovski
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Reply #3622 on: June 26, 2017, 01:49:20 AM

Sure it's not a sign of guaranteed failure but if I kickstarted  this game I would be pissed they put up the entire game to be controlled by a bank if they did fail a payment.


They shouldn't even be in this theoretical scenario with Grand Theft Auto budget money.
And you think that *this* will be the cold shock of water that makes them question their reality?

--Dave

The company line is already being touted by fans as an example of the company's financial savvy and proof that nothing is wrong. My favorite was that they must've shown the bank something super secret awesome from the game to get the loan.

edit: their excuse of avoiding currency conversion is also curious in that the weakening GBP is making their USD worth more, with Brexit and May it can only get better for the USD.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 08:01:57 AM by jakonovski »
satael
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Reply #3623 on: July 21, 2017, 12:15:44 AM

Summary of Alpha 3.0 as far is known at the moment:

edit: as the latest deadline of June 19th goes by without a release.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 12:17:47 AM by satael »
schild
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Reply #3624 on: July 21, 2017, 01:01:09 AM

I read that whole thing

Anyone that still cares about this game should be written off harder than a trump voter (the initial supporters should be written off like a Stein voter).
Hawkbit
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Reply #3625 on: July 21, 2017, 01:48:13 AM

~1000 kids could have gone to higher education; instead investors got ideas that will never come to fruition.
Shannow
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Reply #3626 on: July 25, 2017, 08:24:01 AM

154 million  swamp poop swamp poop swamp poop swamp poop swamp poop swamp poop swamp poop

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Sky
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Reply #3627 on: July 25, 2017, 08:56:13 AM

Playing the newest release of 7D2D, created by a small dev team of fairly stubborn dudes (the core of which is s couple dudes), this is all the more stark. Both games funded on KS about the same time, and 7D2D has been playable and fun for years, and is getting fairly massive content updates on a steady schedule. Still in Alpha, but it's better than a lot of released games, they just want to keep working on it.

Then there's this thing. PT Barnum is alive and well, whether he goes by Molyneux or Roberts.

Pagz
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Reply #3628 on: August 03, 2017, 12:29:51 AM

Wait... The full released game will only have 5 - 10 systems? Total?  I... What? Has this always been the scope of this game? Why did I think it would be on elite dangerous levels of space?
Sir T
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Reply #3629 on: August 03, 2017, 07:10:47 AM

Not exactly. The original "stretch goals" of the Kickstarter specified 100 Star Systems to explore ON LAUNCH, among other things that have been whittled down

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen


I have a feeling that showing that page to a backer would get a reaction akin to Garlic vs Vampires at this point.

Seriously, they have really blown their kickstarter goals quite dramatically. Which is technically illegal.

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IainC
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Reply #3630 on: August 03, 2017, 08:01:10 AM

Because you believed the lies in the original pitch and later statements.

Also, '5-10 systems' is a hilariously wide estimate. It's the kind of range you'd pitch when you've done no content creation at all yet. Once you've made a system or two, you have a feel for how much work it is and how many systems you can deliver in the time available. A number like 5-10 indicates that you have no idea how much work even one system is and so you're hedging until you do.

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Falconeer
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Reply #3631 on: August 03, 2017, 12:51:07 PM

And that's 5 - 10 planets with probably one tenth of the content of the six planets from Mass Effect Andromeda.

01101010
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Reply #3632 on: August 03, 2017, 01:42:42 PM

So this is actually going to be a game? I thought it was some sort of Fyre Festival for 733T PC gamers.  why so serious?

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Velorath
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Reply #3633 on: August 12, 2017, 05:14:10 AM

The weekly 3.0 schedule update came out on Friday. As some of you may know, they started putting out this schedule a few months ago to show their progress towards releasing 3.0 to the evocati test server, the public test server, and then Live. It rapidly turned into every two weeks announce a two week delay, with the release window always somehow magically remaining just around the corner, and "hey we have some more ships to sell".

This was an update that CR had promised last year at Citizencon would release by December (2016) and it was already rapidly looking like it might not even be out by Gamescom this year as the release kept getting pushed back (even as features were cut). Now with the most recent schedule update, they've apparently removed the target release window dates entirely. This dumpster fire of a patch is going to be lucky to get pushed out there by the end of the year. But hey, I'm sure there was no smoke and mirrors involved in the hands on demos they gave journalists from PC game mags a couple weeks back.
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Reply #3634 on: September 05, 2017, 12:13:16 AM

https://youtu.be/3DCbvu-uF4o


Gamescon presentation with goon/Serek Dmart commentary.  Many level of fun including the goons trolling Derek in real time.



"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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Samprimary
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Reply #3635 on: September 09, 2017, 02:58:53 AM


could you imagine looking back on your life and realizing that entire years of it had 'really hating a game someone else was making' as your highest priority, time, and emotional investment
Cyrrex
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Reply #3636 on: September 09, 2017, 04:02:52 AM

As opposed to the rest of us, who prefer to spread that hatred out across several different games, amirite.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
rattran
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Reply #3637 on: September 09, 2017, 08:08:12 AM

I think the Good Doctor is just mad that his bloated, overpromised and under developed borderline scams only made him a few million, not this kind of money. Those are his Kajillions, damnit!
Khaldun
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Reply #3638 on: September 09, 2017, 12:32:02 PM

I assume it's the same thing that GL-Jeff at Glitchless must think when he wakes up hungover in a crummy apartment: I was born too soon.
Samprimary
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Reply #3639 on: September 09, 2017, 04:59:40 PM

As opposed to the rest of us, who prefer to spread that hatred out across several different games, amirite.

a smattering of game kvetching on a forum or three doesn't even come close to the daunting percentage of this man's mental focus that is spent on hating star citizen pathologically.

and it's especially weird because you know the shit that triggered it in the first place is his projecting so hard you could read his shitposts on the moon in solid daylight
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