The Redneck High Holy Day

[Shockeye]

That's right, Dayton 500 weekend. The beer-swillin', minority hatin', gun totin', sons of the south get a day to celebrate and today is that day.

I tried watching some of the race and I guess I'm not good ol' boy enough to enjoy cars turning left all the time.

Seems to me that when something happens they bring out that yellow flag, any laps run during that time should not be counted.

Also seems to me that there wasn't one person driving, in the pit crew, or on the television team that didn't have an accent that belonged south of the Mason-Dixon line.

Have I mentioned how glad I am that this is being called the new major american sport?

[stray]

edit: Oops..

[Flashman]

I never understood it. Lots of cars going very fast...in an oval...many many times.

[stray]

Well, there is a thing called "drafting", which makes it interesting from time to time. But other than that, yeah, they're just driving left for a few hours.

[jpark]

I never understood it. Lots of cars going very fast...in an oval...many many times.

Automotive catassing ;)

[Kenrick]

Driving race cars seems like something that would be incredibly fun and exciting to do...  But I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to sit there and watch them go around and around a track.

[Strazos]

At least Jeff Gordon can enunciate.

[Abagadro]

Seriously watch it a few times. You will get hooked.  I enjoy it quite a bit.  It's hip to bash on it, but it's heading towards being the #2 sport in America for a reason.

[schild]

Wait wait, isn't the Daytona 500 the most watched sporting event in North America? I _thought_ it was in the world, but the World Cup Finals trash it.

[Kenrick]

At least Jeff Gordon can enunciate.

You listen to too much Foxworthy.

[Kenrick]

Seriously watch it a few times. You will get hooked.  I enjoy it quite a bit.  It's hip to bash on it, but it's heading towards being the #2 sport in America for a reason.

I've tried.  The crashes are fun.  That's it.

[Strazos]

WRX is real racing, with a higher incidence of crashes.

[stray]

WRX is real racing, with a higher incidence of crashes.

The difference being that Nascar crashes are the result of aggressive tactics, not accidents.

Oh, and Japanese cars are for pussies.

*God, I can't believe I'm defending Nascar here*

[WindupAtheist]

Jeff Gordon is a wee little bitch to Michael Schumacher.

[Margalis]

Seriously watch it a few times. You will get hooked.  I enjoy it quite a bit.  It's hip to bash on it, but it's heading towards being the #2 sport in America for a reason.

Good lord no!

If you want to watch auto-racing, watch F1. (Not Indy, F1) They have actual courses and stuff. Hairpins, zig-zags, etc. Not just ovals.

Racing in general is boring to me, because you don't see anything athletic. You can watch a guy or catch something and marvel and their physical ability. I'm not sure most Nascar racers have any sort of ability other than a willingness to be in Nascar.

[Strazos]

The difference being that Nascar crashes are the result of aggressive tactics, not accidents.

Uh, come again?

Oh, and Japanese cars are for pussies.

I agree in principle...but not all the cars are Japanese....Audi would be in also, if they were not outlawed from it.

Also....there's nothing wrong with a Japanese car that also happens to have actual power and ability....it's just that most of them don't.

[stray]

The difference being that Nascar crashes are the result of aggressive tactics, not accidents.

Uh, come again?

It's the wrestling of racing. You see, the crashes are not a result bad handling, breakdowns, or obstacles. They're the result of a crazy fucker like Dale Earnhardt pushing the other drivers off the track. Sometimes ending in tragic results.

And tragic as it is, that's why people like it.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding something: You're talking about sport compact racing right? That's just drag racing from people dumb enough to do it in uncontrolled circumstances.

I'll admit though, that's pretty cool too. I just don't like the cars and the people who drive them (all the better when they crash, I guess  )

[Signe]

I only watch Nascar when there's no other motor racing on.  I enjoy racing... F1 is at the top of my list, of course.  CART and IRL are also great fun.  I thought calling Nascar the wrestling of Motorsport was a fair estimation.  Most of our spare time in Britain was spent at racing events or driving very fast to attend one.  I'm sure the first thing we'll do when we move back will be to sort out a proper ride.

[Abagadro]

F1 has got to be the most god-awful-boring racing ever. Wow, they have hairpin corners. Every race is a boat race with the current best team basically leading/winning every race (i.e. Schumacher the last 3 years, Villnueve before that) or conspiring to put people in 1-2 positions that best help championship points.  It all comes down to who pumps in the most money into the team.  Bleh. 

Give me some paint trading at 195 any day of the week.

[Signe]

It is now, Abagadro, but it didn't used to be.   It's nearly impossible to pass on most circuits anymore.     We can mostly blame Max Mosely for that.  I've looked forward to Champ Car a bit more than F1 in the past few years. 

Schumacher has  won five championships in a row, seven in total, I think.  Ferrari has gone far in helping make F1 a bit boring. I think they cheat, too.    F1 has become somewhat tedious because of it's rules.

[Abagadro]

Wow, 5 seasons. It's worse than I thought.  It's too bad if it used to be good and now is what it is.

[Rodent]

Abagadro: Villnouve wasn't champion before Schumachers latest world titles, Mika Häkkinen was.

Some people say it's boring, me I say it's fantastic. Schumacher has beaten every driver record there is to beat, watching him race is something racing fans will discuss for years and years to come. The only driver to have come close to his sucess was Fangio, and he raced in the 50's.

The upcomming season will be very interesting. McLaren/Mercedes have two great drivers now with Montoya and Raikkonen, if the new MP4-20 just gets some reliability they will deffinatly be able to pinch the title from Ferrari this year. Button showed that BAR is a team that's quickly becomming one of the dominant teams once they got rid of Villneuve, and Renault have a future world champion on their hands in the form of Fernando Alonso.

Edit: I don't see Williams/BMW as a real competitor this year with Nick Heidfeld and Mark Webber, they will deffinatly grab alot of points if Webber shows the reliable racing he did for Jaguar but I don't see them taking the constructor or driver championships. Wihtout a doubt a top 5 stable though.

[Signe]

Wow.  How many different ways can we spell Villeneuve?

[kaid]

I will say this those nascar drivers are freaking agressive. I saw some clips of the race and holy shit those guys were bouncing off eachother on purpose ALOT. Hell after the race was freaking over they were still doing it. Either that or most of the field is drunk off their asses which is also a possiblity.

Kaid

[TheWalrus]

Seriously watch it a few times. You will get hooked.  I enjoy it quite a bit.  It's hip to bash on it, but it's heading towards being the #2 sport in America for a reason.

Good lord no!

If you want to watch auto-racing, watch F1. (Not Indy, F1) They have actual courses and stuff. Hairpins, zig-zags, etc. Not just ovals.

Racing in general is boring to me, because you don't see anything athletic. You can watch a guy or catch something and marvel and their physical ability. I'm not sure most Nascar racers have any sort of ability other than a willingness to be in Nascar.

Though I'm sure NBA players and such would have a seriously hard time going that fast and making the corner. It does require skill, even if you'd like to deny it.

[HaemishM]

There is one reason that NASCAR is as popular as it is right now, and this was made clear by a guy on ESPNRadio the other day. NASCAR promotes the ever-living FUCK out of their drivers and sport. You may be like me, and not know dick about racing, but you know the name Jeff Gordon. You know some of the other names. And I haven't watched any kind of racing since I was a kid. You know those names. Fuck, I saw a commercial in front of Constantine, for pete's sake, that was a marketer's wet dream. It was all animated, and it had 4 NASCAR drivers racing through these situations, and there were fucking logos EVERYWHERE. Nextel, Interstate Batteries, etc. The ad was for Coke, and yet it was cross-promoting NASCAR and all these other corporate sponsors and it was a whoring dream.

The NHL could learn a thing or two about promoting their sport from NASCAR.

And I'm from the South, from one of those red states, and I fucking HATE NASCAR. My brother, however, loves it, goes to races, etc.

[Jamiko]

NASCAR is boring. F1 is boring.

Watch some World Rally Championship racing and you'll understand why.

[WayAbvPar]

NASCAR works as a video game (pretty colors, interesting tactics if you are participating), but it fails as a spectator sport. After spending a weekend in Phoenix while there was a NASCAR race in town, I am convinced that A) I am totally out of step with a vast number of mouth breathing Americans (see also: Novembers 2004), and B) I couldn't be happier to not be in their number. What a bunch of maroons.

[penfold]

NASCAR is boring. F1 is boring.

Watch some World Rally Championship racing and you'll understand why.

Watch WRC *highlights* you mean. Its not really a brilliant spectator sport, and the events themselves are time trials over long distances. You dont get to see much if watching live. Rallycross on the other hand... hmmmm, especially back in the day of Group B.

The best track racing these days is champ kart, and some of the lower numbered forumula's

[Signe]

I've never been able to get into rally very much, although I watch it from time to time.  Open wheelracing is my passion, however.  Righ's too, which is nice.   

[Abagadro]

OMG, I just realized I'm a NASCAR dad.   This does not bode well.

[TheWalrus]

  I like watching open wheel, Signe, but my god...after racing just hobby stocks for a couple years, I had the pleasure of repairing some of my own boo-boos as well as my dads. The number of suspension parts those guys must go through, and the work to get everything back square, makes me howl in anguish.
  Many a night in high school was spent in the wee hours of the morning doing anything and everything to pick up that extra tenth for the next weekend.

To sum up, the time and money scares me.

[Margalis]

Though I'm sure NBA players and such would have a seriously hard time going that fast and making the corner. It does require skill, even if you'd like to deny it.

Any competitive endeavor that is not purely luck-based requires skill. But I don't think it takes athletic ability. My point was that there's something primal about watching a guy and saying "damn that is strong and can run fast." That's very different than "wow, that guy can take that corner well!"

I would also point out that more basic sports are easier to evaluate talent in. There are very few "average joes" who are not in the NBA but could be. Because you can spot the traits of an NBA player pretty easily. Even if you rule out a display of basketball ability. I don't think there are a lot of people that could be good at pro basketball and just don't realize it.

But, I would bet there are plenty of people like that for Nascar. If you were cut out to be an NBA you'd probably give yourself away with some overall athletic ability, height, quickness, etc. If you were cut out to be in Nascar you would...what? Be middle aged in average physical condition.

I have a problem with a lot of competitive sports that have a small pool feeding them. Whitewater rafting is a good example. I mean, who the fuck knows if they are good at whitewater rafting or not?

Could I be an NBA player? Nope. Could I be a sprinter or long jumper? Nope. Could I be a NASCAR driver? Maybe. What are the qualifications again?

Everyone has played basketball at least a bit in their life, or had the opportunity to, or done something somewhat related involving catching, jumping, running, etc. There is a huge swath of the population that has no exposure to auto racing in any form other than watching it.

That's why I think it's kind of lame overall. It's not the best of the best. It's the best of the people that happen to be competing.

[stray]

That's why I think it's kind of lame overall. It's not the best of the best. It's the best of the people that happen to be competing.

I hate to defend Nascar here (again), but damn. Will you get it out of your head that it's only about driving around in circles all day? There are other ways to win besides speed or mere driving skill. For each individual track (oval as they may be), there's always a good number of technical factors to take into account, whether that be in identifying shift points, fuel strategy, etc. This is always a team effort.

And like I said earlier, as far as driving skills are concerned, there's an intimidation factor. Do you honestly think you have the "skills" to not be scared shitless and out of control when some crazy fuck slams into you the wall at 180mph? Are you even in good enough physical shape to endure that kind of speed and work for hours on end (without power steering)? Do you have the skills to drive that fast with a half dozen cars surrounding you the whole time?

If you don't like it, fine. Just say that. I'm not the biggest fan either. But when you say it doesn't take skill, it just shows how little thought you've actually put into it.

[Margalis]

Are you even in good enough physical shape to endure that kind of speed and work for hours on end (without power steering)?

Yes.

If you don't like it, fine. Just say that. I'm not the biggest fan either. But when you say it doesn't take skill, it just shows how little thought you've actually put into it.

Again, I did NOT SAY it doesn't take skill. It DOES take skill. But it takes a very specific type of skill that prevents it from being a true test of the best of the best.

Look at it this way: How good are you at football. You have some idea, right? Can you run? Can you catch? Can you throw? Are you big and tough?

Now, how good are you at golf. Unless you've played gold, do you have any idea? Are you athletic? Well, a lot of golfers aren't. Can you catch something or run fast? Well that's irrelevant. The only way to know if you are good at golf is to play golf, and the only way to get better at it is very directly by practicing.

EVERY single kid who took gym class has some idea if they have what it takes to be a pro football or basketball player. That means the guys who really are playing in the pros are damn good. There aren't many guys in the US who could be NBA players but just never realized it.

On the other hand, there are plenty of people who could be NASCAR racers and don't know it. I'm strong enough to be a NASCAR racer, I have endurance, and I have some balls. Beyond that, I have no idea, because the skill in NASCAR is escoteric compared to basketball.

I think if you could magically gather up the very best basketball players in the US, potential-wise, you would have a group that overlapped pretty significantly with the actual NBA. I don't think that is true of NASCAR.

Let me put it another way: I know for a fact that I could practice all I want and totally suck next to Allen Iverson. I have no idea if I could practice at NASCAR and be as good as the best NASCAR drivers.