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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Steam  |  Topic: Changes to Steam TOS Follow SCOTUS Concepcion Ruling 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Changes to Steam TOS Follow SCOTUS Concepcion Ruling  (Read 5739 times)
CmdrSlack
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on: August 02, 2012, 08:49:36 AM

Even though I completely disagree with the corporate logic on this decision, at least Valve is being up-front about the changes to the Steam TOS.

Not too long ago, the SCOTUS issued a ruling in the AT&T Mobility v. Concepcion case. It held that a California statute declaring an arbitration clause unenforceable did not trump the Federal Arbitration Act. This put consumer attorneys into a huge uproar, because the way the Court drafted its opinion, it was pretty clear that any arbitration clause in any kind of contract (even a clickwrap or TOS type agreement) is enforceable as drafted.

This means that a company can change its service agreement to limit the ways a consumer can sue the company or receive relief for any disputes arising under the contract. This change applies to everyone using the service, not just new people joining the service.

Valve has decided to do what many people predicted companies would do in the wake of the Concepcion ruling -- it has created new rules of engagement for people seeking relief from a dispute regarding the Steam service. Steam users are now prohibited from bringing a class action against Valve, and are limited to binding arbitration or pursuing a claim in small claims court.

This probably isn't a big deal for anyone. However, class actions tend to be one of the few ways that consumers can make a $40 claim into something worth pursuing. I'd rate this as marginally shitty on Valve's part, but a good way to protect investor value.

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
Tebonas
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Reply #1 on: August 02, 2012, 08:57:43 AM

Ah, that is why there is a new Valve office in Luxembourg. Some legal mumbo jumbo.

Your Scotus really fucks you sideways. Valve may be more accomodating than they have to be, but the big picture seems to be that they want to take away the right of the common people to stand up to larger entities. This reads eerily like killing Collective Bargaining Rights. Corporatocracy, here we come.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 09:02:15 AM by Tebonas »
Kail
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Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 01:29:20 PM

This probably isn't a big deal for anyone. However, class actions tend to be one of the few ways that consumers can make a $40 claim into something worth pursuing. I'd rate this as marginally shitty on Valve's part, but a good way to protect investor value.

Thanks for this, it's hard for me to get an informed opinion on this kind of thing.  Frustrating that this makes it look like TOS agreements are going to get even worse for consumers across the board.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 01:32:25 PM by Kail »
bhodi
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No lie.


Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 01:36:12 PM

I pulled this off reddit, and though it looks fairly accurate, I make no claims...

CmdrSlack
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Reply #4 on: August 02, 2012, 01:36:25 PM

This probably isn't a big deal for anyone. However, class actions tend to be one of the few ways that consumers can make a $40 claim into something worth pursuing. I'd rate this as marginally shitty on Valve's part, but a good way to protect investor value.

Thanks for this, it's hard for me to get an informed opinion on this kind of thing.  Frustrating that this makes it look like TOS agreements are going to get even worse for consumers across the board.

Yeah, I'm trying to not get too political here. So long as Valve continues to have good CS, their dispute resolution policy doesn't mean much to most users. However, the fact that a retroactive change is binding and there's nothing you can do but a) suck it or b) stop using Steam, makes it a dick move on Valve's part. It's a good business decision (anything that helps increase shareholder value, amirite?), but a shitty move if you are like me and already find clickwrap/shrinkwrap/TOS agreements to be laden with bullshit and highly abusive.

And yea, Tebonas, this ruling and the Citizens United ruling, &c. really do fuck us. But I am sure that the invisible hand of the free market will give me a reach-around sooner or later.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 01:38:13 PM by CmdrSlack »

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
bhodi
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No lie.


Reply #5 on: August 02, 2012, 01:40:58 PM

What you should really be concerned about is how valve will morph in the coming years. They aren't bad right now, but what happens if Gabe retires? What if they decide they want to go public? This is the risk you take when you tie your games to an online service like steam. Eventually, there will be a split from 'okay technically I don't own this but since I have a disk and I can install it whenever I like it essentially means I do' mentality, when the 'license' part really starts to impinge on the way you want to use the software. Like, if you move to another country and all of a sudden your games are disabled because you don't have the 'license' to launch the game from within another country (I just made this up but it's plausible!)

All the downsides currently don't affect me so I've put a lot of money into steam due to it being convenient for me personally, but my friend who has a kid constantly has to shuffle / buy multiple games so he, his wife, and kid can play. And what happens at the divorce? Who gets the shared family account?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 01:45:23 PM by bhodi »
CmdrSlack
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Reply #6 on: August 02, 2012, 01:46:22 PM

Agreed. The lack of physical media does make me a bit iffy about Steam, but I'll take the risk now and see what happens.

Quite honestly, my "reinstall old game" urges come so infrequently  that I have to get a version of the game that works with my current OS by the time I want to reinstall.

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
Merusk
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Reply #7 on: August 02, 2012, 04:57:52 PM

Lack of physical media is the #1 reason I just won't buy new games anymore and wait for huge discounts.  I know I'm going to eventually be fucked out of access to them, so I'm not going to blow full price on them.  (Rants about charging full price for a product that doesn't incur shipping, mark-up, stocking, etc fees notwithstanding.)

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Khaldun
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Reply #8 on: August 02, 2012, 09:15:29 PM

Lack of physical media is going to be immaterial if everyone selling physical media says, "You have to be online all the time and connected to us and shit" with the thing that the physical media puts on your machine.

E.g., Steam is one thing if it's an extraordinary thing and another thing if it's a typical thing. If it's a typical thing, the major question becomes, "are they less full of dicks than all the other typical things?" If it's an extraordinary thing, the question is, "Do I like the affordances of this extraordinary thing enough to tolerate its defects?" The problem in the middle is, "If I like the extraordinary thing enough, will I make it a typical thing?" Fortunately this question is now answered: it doesn't matter what you think, because it's become typical.
5150
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Reply #9 on: August 03, 2012, 04:39:06 AM

Lack of physical media is going to be immaterial if everyone selling physical media says, "You have to be online all the time and connected to us and shit" with the thing that the physical media puts on your machine.

Which is 99.9% of the retail games that activate in Steam. I can think of only a few examples of a retail game (X-Superbox, Mount & Blade series) I've activated in my Steam account that I could play if I no longer had my Steam account and that's only because the developer appears to have retrospectively worked with Steam to support the existing serial numbers.
Fabricated
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Reply #10 on: August 03, 2012, 06:45:01 AM

I could imagine steam turning to shit if Gabe retired and some megacorp swooped into buy Steam for jillions of dollars to turn it into a shittier version of Origin.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Sky
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Reply #11 on: August 03, 2012, 08:50:01 AM

This probably isn't a big deal for anyone. However, class actions tend to be one of the few ways that consumers can make a $40 claim into something worth pursuing. I'd rate this as marginally shitty on Valve's part, but a good way to protect investor value.
Every class action I've participated in has been piddly compared to the actual monetary impact on my end. But I'm sure some attorneys got a nice new boat out of the deal.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Also, I really dislike the concentration of power in the feds.
tazelbain
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Reply #12 on: August 03, 2012, 08:54:50 AM

What is point of having laws if companies can just by pass them by forcing users to click a button?

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Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #13 on: August 03, 2012, 09:02:21 AM

What is point of having laws if companies can just by pass them by forcing users to click a button?

Because we're heading back into a realm of consumer protection called "caveat emptor"

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UnSub
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Reply #14 on: August 03, 2012, 09:13:48 AM

What is point of having laws if companies can just by pass them by forcing users to click a button?

Because the free market doesn't like it when mean old people gang up on individual companies. Why, there might be 100 of them and only 1 poor company in the fight!

KallDrexx
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Reply #15 on: August 03, 2012, 10:49:18 AM

Every class action I've participated in has been piddly compared to the actual monetary impact on my end. But I'm sure some attorneys got a nice new boat out of the deal.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

While true, I think his point was that class action lawsuits are the only way to punish companies that do shady things on an individually small scale. 
CmdrSlack
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Reply #16 on: August 03, 2012, 10:54:36 AM

Every class action I've participated in has been piddly compared to the actual monetary impact on my end. But I'm sure some attorneys got a nice new boat out of the deal.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

While true, I think his point was that class action lawsuits are the only way to punish companies that do shady things on an individually small scale. 

I think he was engaging in a game of "needle the attorney."  why so serious?

But yeah, that was my point. Getting ripped off for $40 isn't worth the cost of the lawsuit. But $40 times 1 million people is worth it.

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
Sky
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Reply #17 on: August 03, 2012, 01:31:53 PM

WHAT NO I WOULD NEVER
CmdrSlack
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Reply #18 on: August 03, 2012, 01:48:21 PM

I believe you doth ALLCAPS too much.

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
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