WvW Thoughts

[Fraeg]

WTB some Aussie or Kiwi guilds for our server.   The guild I am in is thinking about moving a 2nd time because there is zero late night WvWvW presence on our server.   We bust our asses off during NA times, go to bed, wake up and anything we had worked for is gone, as there is nobody on at night to defend.

/shrug it is what it is, but it is annoying to realize no matter how well organized we are, no matter how good we are at calling out targets, *strategery* etc.   In the end we lose because everyone on our server logs off around 12am PST.


oh: and the hacks, flying hacks, speed hacks, orb hacks...... ANET needs to get on that ASAP


otherwise I am having fun out there

[Threash]

Seems like a lot of trouble when there is very little point to "winning".  I go out there and pvp because i like it, when i login in the morning i much prefer it that the map is completely taken over, gives me more to do.

[Genev]

I'm hearing about so many hacks, but haven't really seen them in the matchups we've been up against o.O
We're dropping due to a lack of night-time presence as well, and the fact that because we have an Alliance on our server who pushes majorly right after server reset, which puts our server ahead at first, we are seen as the biggest threat and even when it's clear that we're not going to win, and might not even get 2nd place, they go after us ruthlessly.
But we damn well make them work for it! We've frequently defended keeps against 2 forces from different sides rushing in, and managed to hold back the zerg from another server for quite a long time due to smart usage of guardian walls after the inner keep door was breached :D

[Threash]

I saw a couple naked rangers with nonsensical names teleporting around a zone randomly shooting, but that was in pve.

[Ingmar]

I see obvious bots all the time, they're easy to report.

[Falconeer]

So basically with Arborstone [Fr] previously ranked 6th destroying us, Desolation, previously ranked 4th, EU ranking next week will probably see French servers (Vizunah Square, Arborstone, Augury Rock) dominating the continent with 1st, 4th and 5th spot, and rising. This is impressive to me, and unexpected, and kind of unexplainable. Thoughts? (Question mostly aimed at European players, but of course everyone is welcome with an opinion, more or less informed).

[Ingmar]

Massive off-hours advantage from players in French Guiana and Haiti, obviously. (More seriously, it might be Quebec?)

[Fordel]

Quebec players in off hours is highly likely.

[Genev]

Augary Rock isn't actually that good in EU primetime, i felt.
We've ehard rumours of Canadians transfering to other french servers during matchups, from Vizunah.

[waylander]

ETvsCDvsIOJ so far....
http://www.lotd.org/showthread.php?p=297666

We live between T2 and T1 server match ups, but we're paired with servers that don't have a good overseas population.

I think there is a problem with just basing points on asset capturing, and there should be more point emphasis on PVP'ing as well as protecting supply caravans.  I probably wouldn't assign more than 50% of the points for assets, I'd assign 35% of the points for active PVP kills, and 15% of the points for protecting supply caravans.

I think that would balance it all out over time, and make it more fun overall.

[tazelbain]

Points for caravans would have the same issue since uncompetitive timezones could still rack up caravans.
Points for kills would lead zergs farming each other and ignoring the objectives like they did in Tor Anoc.

Even if your plan worked, it would only reduce the advantage of uncompetitive timezones by 50% at most which I don't think is enough. 75% to 80% is what it needs to reduced by. 

BTW Ruin sucks ass

[KallDrexx]

Protecting caravans should give points only if enemies are attacking near the caravan.    Not sure why that wasn't put in the original design.

[Threash]

Points for caravans would have the same issue since uncompetitive timezones could still rack up caravans.
Points for kills would lead zergs farming each other and ignoring the objectives like they did in Tor Anoc.

Even if your plan worked, it would only reduce the advantage of uncompetitive timezones by 50% at most which I don't think is enough. 75% to 80% is what it needs to reduced by. 

BTW Ruin sucks ass

I don't understand why it needs to be reduced at all.

[Furiously]

I'd settle for a 100% buff once you own nothing in a bg.

Momentum is damn hard to overcome.

[KallDrexx]

I'd settle for a 100% buff once you own nothing in a bg.

Momentum is damn hard to overcome.

I'd also add in % reduction in repair costs as your realm gets less and less capture points.  It would lessen the demoralization of getting owned.

[Brogarn]

BTW Ruin sucks ass

Zergers gonna zerg? I hate seeing them out there and was not at all happy about getting matched to ET again specifically because of them. At least they're easy to kill when solo or in a small group.

[tazelbain]

Protecting caravans should give points only if enemies are attacking near the caravan.    Not sure why that wasn't put in the original design.

I posted some stuff earlier about it.  But I will try again. Say you have a 3 servers (X,Y,Z) that are competitive in timezone A.  X and Y competitive in timezone B, Z can't field a team. In timezone C only X can field a team. The result of this match will always be X winning but a large margin.  The amount of points generated by X running around C time uncontested will vastly out way points timezones A and B.  Doesn't matter how skilled or organized Y and Z are.  People in timezone A (usually in their regions primetime and the bulk of WvWers) are getting frustrated that their contribution valued as worthless by the current scoring system.  This scenario isn't rare, it is happening every day on every match up.  Anet released the WvW queue data after week 1 that showed a direct relationship.  More timezones queued -> higher rank.

[KallDrexx]

Sorry, I was mis-thinking people talking about points meant personal points, not server points.

Who really gives a shit about server points?  All I care is that our server isn't being roflstomped so I can actually have some decent wvw.

[Ingmar]

More timezones queued -> higher rank.

In the long run this is a self-correcting problem. If it is as important as you say, eventually the servers with better coverage will end up fighting other servers with the same advantage and then everyone will be getting 'good' matchups.

[tazelbain]

Sorry, I was mis-thinking people talking about points meant personal points, not server points.

Who really gives a shit about server points?  All I care is that our server isn't being roflstomped so I can actually have some decent wvw.

Just like sports are meaningless, but people care about the outcomes of games.

[Threash]

Sure, but changing the rules in order to improve their chances is not exactly the usual response to sport loses.

[tazelbain]

Well, I am advocating a change that would decrease my server's rank not make it better.  Sports have had decades or centuries to get their rules in order.  GW2 has 5 weeks.  I see this as competitiveness issue and a casual player issue.  The current scoring favoring uncompetitiveness over competitiveness which seems dumb in PvP.  If a player want to participate in WvW (ie actually try help their team win and not just farm loot/xp/karma/badges) they need to log in during these non-competitive times. A casual player can't do that.

Lets do a thought experiment imagine you had 50 players and you can choose to which timezone to enter the pvp battlefield.  The timezone with a) 200 enemies and 150 allies or b) 0 enemies and 50 allies. Which timezone is likely to have the most PvP fun? Which is likely to generate the most score?  Surely, if the scoring was working right the answer be same and it's currently not.

[Threash]

You are simply missing the point of why some people find world pvp fun.  You can get that type of pvp from the structured battlegrounds.  Arena net has done an excellent job of making both kinds of pvp almost completely meaningless to the overall game so i don't even understand the complaints from that point of view.  Losing all your shit while you were asleep is a FEATURE, not a problem that needs to be solved.

[Sjofn]

I'd much rather deal with uneven time zone coverage than population problems, personally. Time zones are just part of the deal, you know?

[Phred]

I think people are just too impatient to let the matching system work itself out. Like it was said, if you get stomped by a server with better coverage eventually you'll get matched against servers with poorer coverage just like yours. "It may not fix the I want it now" urge but try having some patience instead of trying to rewrite the rules to cover a probably already solved problem.

[KallDrexx]

I think people are just too impatient to let the matching system work itself out. Like it was said, if you get stomped by a server with better coverage eventually you'll get matched against servers with poorer coverage just like yours. "It may not fix the I want it now" urge but try having some patience instead of trying to rewrite the rules to cover a probably already solved problem.

Of course people don't have the patience.  It's why I don't go into WvW when we are losing.  I'm playing the game to have fun, not to run 5 minutes to get curbstomped and repeat.  I don't really give a shit about server pride or fighting with the motivation to help our server come back from a losing position.  Faulting players for not having patience when they aren't having fun in a *game* is retarded.

[Phred]

I think people are just too impatient to let the matching system work itself out. Like it was said, if you get stomped by a server with better coverage eventually you'll get matched against servers with poorer coverage just like yours. "It may not fix the I want it now" urge but try having some patience instead of trying to rewrite the rules to cover a probably already solved problem.

Of course people don't have the patience.  It's why I don't go into WvW when we are losing.  I'm playing the game to have fun, not to run 5 minutes to get curbstomped and repeat.  I don't really give a shit about server pride or fighting with the motivation to help our server come back from a losing position.  Faulting players for not having patience when they aren't having fun in a *game* is retarded.

Ok then just stop playing then. Making up fanciful ways to fix everything on a message board is about as futile an occupation as telling people to have patience

[KallDrexx]

I didn't realize I was making fanciful ways to fix everything on a message board.  In fact I think the only suggestion I have made was to lower repair costs if you are outmanned and losing to lessen the "i'm not having fun" snowball when you are losing...

*edit* more of the point, the reason people are making suggestions is because when things are going well (the fights are coming regularly and they aren't completely uneven) then WvW is extremely fun, but when it's not WvW is extremely frustrating and boring.  The "fanciful" suggestions that people are making are to help alleviate the latter to make it more likely it's the former while htey are playing.  Not sure why that's a bad thing, and complaining that people dont' have the patience to stick around for the unfun parts in a game is a bit retarded.

[Threash]

The fights are ALWAYS regular and even in SPvP. That's why it's called structured and world pvp isn't.  You can have regular even fights any time you want, even the gear is standardized.  World pvp is for those who specifically don't want that.  The idea that there is a war going on even when you are not there is one of the biggest draws of world pvp, you guys just want battlegrounds with castles.

[tazelbain]

Don't think matching so going to fix things. The rankings are pretty stable.  Right now the only thing moving the ranks is large WvW guilds jumping servers.  A huge EU guild jumped to Blackgate early this week. Blackgate went from losing to dominating because this guild is unopposed in the EU timezone. Remember that the scoring system are tied so ranks shift proportionally with scores.  

[tazelbain]

I don't blame puggers from quitting matches early. But for an organized groups, losing matches are where you learn the most and get stronger. Guilds that quit during losing matches are hurting themselves.  But for love of God, puggers, don't let yourself be farmed at the portal keep. It's just shameful.

[Outlawedprod]

TA Disbands
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/69321-titan-alliance/

Are you on a top server?  Prepare to see increasing queue times.

[Nebu]

Best thing out of that thread: 

Faster than i thought. I figured at least 1-2 more months of PvDoor before you guys got bored.

PvDoor resonated with me in a big way.

[Rasix]

 

[Nebu]

Come on... it was funny.  Same problem that DAoC and WAR ultimately suffered.  Too much time killing doors, too little time killing players.