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Author Topic: Things you don't like.  (Read 174907 times)
Ghambit
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Reply #175 on: July 23, 2012, 08:03:24 AM

I don't like how the don't like thread is longer than the like thread.

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trias_e
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Reply #176 on: July 23, 2012, 08:25:04 AM

Yeah that kind of bothers me too, because I feel it might give the wrong impression to those who sort of glance at the forum and move on.  But it's just the nature of things.  People nitpick and complain about specific negative things but aren't going to point out every positive event.  If I were to make a single post about every specific thing I've liked about this game in that thread it would be pretty large.
Sky
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Reply #177 on: July 23, 2012, 08:29:46 AM

And some of the stuff in this thread is silly. Like this:

I don't like that I just hit the Savage Coast last night  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? I'm soooo slooow. In my defense, I did play Komoto all the way through Kingsmouth before taking Bryn all the way through Kingsmouth.

The likes are quite a bit longer than the dislikes, but the dislikes are pretty annoying (chat problems, issues with GUI scaling ranging from small elements to not being able to place items in 1/2 the inventory window). Stuff that can be endured, but hopefully they push out some fixes soon. It's like an inverse of GW2, I love GW2's UI and comfort features, but I like the actual game of TSW better.
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Reply #178 on: July 23, 2012, 10:29:36 AM

I can deal with being mute (I have come around on voiced protagonists but I am perfectly content with a silent one as well), but I don't like that I have zero input into her muteness. Yes, occassionally she deigns to react to something, but most of the time she is a slack-jawed, expressionless mute with the personality of a piece of wet tissue paper and zero agency. I enjoy the "dialogue" (moar liek monologues am i rite?) that is spoken at me, but I feel a huge disconnect from my character and I find that to be unfortunate. This isn't a this-specific-game-and-only-this-game complaint, though, I never like when a game does that.

Also the combat animations are kind of dumb (I particularly hate the magic ones) and the character models have the weirdest proportions. :P


I do like the game alright, don't get me wrong! But it does have a bunch of things that bug me.  Heart

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Ingmar
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Reply #179 on: July 23, 2012, 11:41:33 AM

My list so far:

- The models are weird looking (legs are slightly too short on the women for example and in some outfits they end up looking really strange), and despite all the dress up options I am not really happy with how my guy looks. They need a lot more (and better) hair options for a start.
- My total lack of agency or input into the storyline bothers me a lot. This game *is* what people were saying SWTOR would be; sitting through someone reading the WoW quest giver text to you before you can go get your bear asses. This is *partially* mitigated by the good writing and voice acting for some of the characters; others are not so good and you get stuck listening to them when you don't want to be and there's no feeling of contributing yourself to keep you interested (sherriff lady in Kingsport, I am looking at you.) SWTOR may have ruined this for me forever, I hate not having a voice or any choices in the conversations.


And the thing that will probably cause me to quit:

- The quest restriction thing is the worst fucking thing ever. The game has sent me to the fire station in Kingsport 3 goddamn times so far, if I could take a reasonable number of quests at the same time I wouldn't have to repeat shit like that. It is indefensibly bad.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #180 on: July 23, 2012, 01:56:24 PM



And the thing that will probably cause me to quit:

- The quest restriction thing is the worst fucking thing ever. The game has sent me to the fire station in Kingsport 3 goddamn times so far, if I could take a reasonable number of quests at the same time I wouldn't have to repeat shit like that. It is indefensibly bad.

Odd, I actually really, really like this myself. Sure, sometimes it's a bit annoying but in general I feel like I have 1 or 2 things to focus on and usually I find all new quests as I'm finishing up old ones.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Reply #181 on: July 23, 2012, 01:57:13 PM

Ya. Everyone hates it at first, and end up appreciating it when they pick up the pace of the game. Usually.

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Reply #182 on: July 23, 2012, 01:59:16 PM

I hated the crap out of it in Kingsmouth, but ended up getting used to it. Not sure it's really better than quest hubs (and in some cases it's used to kinda-cheaply reuse the same area for a different quest), but it's nowhere near as egregious as e.g. what LOTRO has you do in the Lothlorien questline. It definitely helps that you can just phone in for the reward after you finish a mission, and usually find some sort of quest starting item nearby that takes you to a nearby quest giver so you can carry on.

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Reply #183 on: July 23, 2012, 02:00:05 PM

I could forgive it with phasing or a coherent narrative order, but when I can see stuff lying around that I know I would be able to grab if I had the right quest but oops I can't take it at the same time, it just pisses me off. It actually hurts immersion more for me than the other way around would.

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Ghambit
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Reply #184 on: July 23, 2012, 02:08:13 PM

The game is very questLINE oriented, scripted, most quests are heavily tiered, and many require a bit of thinking/research/exploration.  So having questhubs would be a bit counterintuitive imo.  You get sent on a mission, you better damn well do it w/o getting ADD for every shinay.


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Ingmar
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Reply #185 on: July 23, 2012, 02:11:14 PM

The 'only one quest shows at a time on your tracker' already does an admirable job of keeping you focused. Nothing about what you describe would be broken by allowing me to have say 8 or 10 side quests going at a time instead of 3; those are the ones that are particularly egregious since the start points are scattered all over the freaking place in the world, and when you run across one in the world you're stuck either dropping something you have to pick it up, or trying to remember where it is so you can come back to the middle of nowhere to grab it later (along with the other 3 quests scattered around in random spots that you already had to skip...)

I can't see my feelings on this one changing.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Lantyssa
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Reply #186 on: July 23, 2012, 02:12:05 PM

Ya. Everyone hates it at first, and end up appreciating it when they pick up the pace of the game. Usually.
I don't loathe it like I used to, but I'm not to the point of appreciating it, either.

Edit for Ghambit:  And a lot of those thinking puzzles require a break.  The pause/unpause is a clunky way of doing what I do anyways, which is work on something else while I ponder.  Especially if I run across what might be the solution and I have to run across the entire map to unpause and find out I was wrong.

(I agree with Ingmar on something.  The gaming world is being turned on its head!)

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Tyrnan
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Reply #187 on: July 23, 2012, 02:16:08 PM

The 'only one quest shows at a time on your tracker' already does an admirable job of keeping you focused. Nothing about what you describe would be broken by allowing me to have say 8 or 10 side quests going at a time instead of 3; those are the ones that are particularly egregious since the start points are scattered all over the freaking place in the world, and when you run across one in the world you're stuck either dropping something you have to pick it up, or trying to remember where it is so you can come back to the middle of nowhere to grab it later (along with the other 3 quests scattered around in random spots that you already had to skip...)

I can't see my feelings on this one changing.

Map markers are a godsend for this. Just open the map, right-click and add a note. They're shared across characters too so you'll only have to do it once.
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Reply #188 on: July 23, 2012, 02:17:31 PM

When you see something you cannot pick up without dropping another, just put a marker on the map labeled "quest, for later". It works.

Sjofn
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Reply #189 on: July 23, 2012, 02:18:56 PM

It works, but still sucks. It's busywork to stretch out the content.

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Rasix
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Reply #190 on: July 23, 2012, 02:18:59 PM

I don't mind it anymore.  I think it could be lessened a bit.  Perhaps let you have one of each type, but there really aren't a lot of sabotage or investigation quests to make that big of a difference.  I haven't really even come into the situation lately where having more room for minor quests would even matter.

And I'm a serial quest hoarder.  I am in every game.  The restrictions here just haven't been any sort of deal breaker.

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Reply #191 on: July 23, 2012, 02:20:24 PM

It doesn't suck at all. It's just a stylistical choice you don't like. Some do. It would have been SO MUCH easier for them to drop it.

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Reply #192 on: July 23, 2012, 02:27:48 PM

Yes, it IS a stylistic choice I don't like. That means I think it sucks. You thinking it is just dandy because you are a fanboy for the game (and that's fine!) doesn't change that.

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Segoris
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Reply #193 on: July 23, 2012, 02:29:56 PM


Map markers are a godsend for this. Just open the map, right-click and add a note. They're shared across characters too so you'll only have to do it once.

Throwing this post into the "things you like" forum as this really is a great point I forgot about


As for limited quests - I'm with Lant - I couldn't stand it but I'm at a point where I'm used to it. I don't like it or enjoy it, but it isn't a big enough deal to be a gamebreaker either.
Ghambit
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Reply #194 on: July 23, 2012, 02:54:06 PM

 Facepalm
F13ers that honestly think having a fuckton of quests in their log, along with questhubs, in THIS game... is kinda funny.  If TSW questing was generic you guys would break the feel and point of the game from the onset (along with a few things mechanically) and then come here to complain how much the game sux.

FC made the right call here; I'm fairly steadfast on that one... regardless how much I or others may hate it.  It's a smart design choice.

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Ingmar
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Reply #195 on: July 23, 2012, 02:58:54 PM

You don't really understand my point, clearly. I certainly wouldn't bitch about quest hubs if they had them. (In fact I would say it very clearly DOES have quest hubs. What is the police station if not a quest hub?) So far I'm not seeing this amazing narrative structure that would be ruined by having a few extra quests in my log to save me a lot of running.

Going further, if they just had one quest with seven hundred thousand steps, that would also be fine. I don't attach a particular value to having a lot of quests or very few quests; what I object to is making me run through the same area 400 times. It gets to feel like busywork very quickly.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 03:00:48 PM by Ingmar »

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Sjofn
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Reply #196 on: July 23, 2012, 03:22:56 PM

Yeah, it's not so much "waaah, I want 30 quests and a bunch of quest hubs" and a lot more "when I discover a quest in an out of the way spot, I want to be able to pick it up no matter what" and "I don't want to get sent back to the same spot 5 times for no good reason." No narrative coherence would've been lost if I could've picked up first aid kits and ice packs from the firehouse at the same time.

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trias_e
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Reply #197 on: July 23, 2012, 03:38:35 PM

I think once you get out of kingsmouth, even just past the police station, you'll find the quest flow to be smoother.   The police station is a bit of a hub and has a bit of backtracking around town, but for the most part the game relies on a chain of mission givers instead of a cluster.  There are certainly a few weak links in this regard, but overall I was really happy with the system.  I do wish you could take more side quests (6 would be nice), as those aren't as involved.   Actually, there are usually only 2-3 side quests in one spot anyways.  The only reason I particularly care is because the PvP quests count as side quests, which can be annoying if you hop in and out of PvP.

Later on, especially in the Savage Coast, quests usually end remotely near other quest givers, and there's a fantastic flow to them.  It's not really hub-like at all.  I loved it, Savage Coast was probably my favorite zone in the game due to the way the missions flowed.

I really like focusing on one 'story' mission at a time personally.  If you do really want to pick up another mission, your current one does pause and you can pick it up where it left off.  I've felt the need to do that exactly twice in my 4 days of gameplay.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 03:45:35 PM by trias_e »
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Reply #198 on: July 23, 2012, 03:53:45 PM

They stated many times that wherever you finish a "unique" quest you should find a "green/side" quest in the immediate proximity that leads you to another quest and so on. By design, you shouldn't even stumble on more than three quest at a time, but that of course can't be true if you just like to explore. Still, their logic is that you HAVE to do one main quest at a time, otherwise you would stop caring about the why and what of it, and you are not really supposed to trip on more than three "greens quests" at the same time. As someone else stated, if you don't like that they tell you how to proceed in the game then sure you are never gonna appreciate this choice and that's fine, but the way the game (and the maps, and the quest placement) is designed makes it flow in a way that would not work with other MMORPGs -which are the ones we have been domesticated to- and that becomes apparent only after you've been playing for a little while.

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Reply #199 on: July 23, 2012, 03:55:17 PM

I think I have 6 or 7 'main' quests available to me currently, so, design failure if their goal is what you say.

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Reply #200 on: July 23, 2012, 04:02:08 PM

The "main quests" really do not deserve to be interrupted or fragmented, with all the cutscenes, pop ups, maps and progressive tiers. I thought we were talking about the side quests. If at this point into the game you feel like packing the main quests up into a more manageable pile, then they didn't fail in the design department, they failed in the narrative department.

trias_e
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Reply #201 on: July 23, 2012, 04:14:26 PM

I do think they failed a little bit at the beginning design-wise.  Two many mission givers packed into one area (police station).  Too many quest objectives packed into a small area in the town at the beginning.  If you've played MMORPGs you see this as a mission hub and wonder why the hell you can't pick these all up.  I got over it pretty quickly since I was getting rather immersed in the characters and the particular missions and had little desire to game 'effeciciently' in any way at all (took my damn sweet time in Kingsmouth, backtracking became a benefit as I loved the atmosphere so much in that zone).  But after the mission givers started spreading out and hence mission objectives became more spread out, (which happens pretty quickly, to be honest), I felt the system worked better.  From the skatepark onwards it really clicked with me.  
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 04:19:40 PM by trias_e »
Ingmar
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Reply #202 on: July 23, 2012, 04:23:07 PM

The "main quests" really do not deserve to be interrupted or fragmented, with all the cutscenes, pop ups, maps and progressive tiers. I thought we were talking about the side quests. If at this point into the game you feel like packing the main quests up into a more manageable pile, then they didn't fail in the design department, they failed in the narrative department.

The main quests aren't as bad as the side quests in this respect because they actually have a more coherent narrative, but they're still throwing these at me constantly in situations where I can't pick them up (something sent me by the chuch, oh look, that asshole in there has TWO MORE and I still have 4 undone at the police station, etc.) Tremendously annoying. And yeah I have no idea, maybe it cleans up in later areas but they certainly haven't put their best foot forward in Kingsmouth.

Neither of the 'main' quests I've done so far have had any cut scenes, just some (admittedly nice) handout-type graphics. There's nothing about those that would be hurt by 'interruption' with another quest.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 04:27:14 PM by Ingmar »

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Ghambit
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Reply #203 on: July 23, 2012, 07:04:04 PM

-Lil Johnny: "There's a rampaging Draug on the loose in my mom's office... She's trapped!  Hurry before it eats her! Waaaaaaa"
-John "Ingmar" Doe:  "Pfft... there's a floating smartphone over there.  'Scuse me why I grab another quest to do punk.  I might be back if Policeman#3 gives me a foozle-fetch errand in your mom's bedroom."

 Ohhhhh, I see.

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Ingmar
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Reply #204 on: July 23, 2012, 07:27:05 PM

Yeah sorry, the immersion argument is ridiculous. I'm already turning down Lil Johnny's "urgent" quest because I'm on an "urgent" quest from the sherriff - and yet he'll still be there with his urgent problem when I finish.

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Sky
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Reply #205 on: July 23, 2012, 08:16:39 PM

See, now THIS is how you pad this thread length!
Ginaz
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Reply #206 on: July 24, 2012, 01:44:21 AM

I do wish you could take a few more side quests and maybe one or two of each mission type at the same time AND not have to go back to the quest giver to unpause a quest (that I don't like at all), but I've gotten use to how it is and its certainly not a game breaker for me.  YMMV.
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Reply #207 on: July 24, 2012, 02:05:49 AM

Game doesn't seem like it's a game that wants me to duo with Ingmar, which makes me a little sad. Like we could duo, but ... I don't know. Just doesn't seem like it adds anything, so we'd just as soon do our own thing, since that means Ingmar can dart off into the woods to talk to a squirrel or something if he feels like it, and I can die 600 times to zombies because I suck at pistols.


Also, crafting gives me a headache, but that is probably more because I am dumb than anything.  why so serious?

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Reply #208 on: July 24, 2012, 02:10:25 AM

There are quite a few missions in Transylvania (and a handful earlier on, mostly in the second Egypt zone) where a duo (or a 2-3 person pug) is highly recommended. It may be possible to solo them with an outlast build and/or consumable abuse, but eh.

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Reply #209 on: July 24, 2012, 03:00:22 AM

Not sure where you are now Sjofn, but difficulty kind of ramps up in the second zone -Savage Coast- (unless you hit the jackpot with a very efficient build already or you are just that awesome), and that's where duoing is much, much more needed than in other similar games. Even more so in the third, Blue Mountain, which led many people that are used to mop the floor with mobs until  raids to complain on the official boards about "forced grouping" (which is really not the case here). Granted duoing is still not necessary at all, just more convenient, but when is it ever necessary in post-WoW games?

The whole "better with a duo" thing is another reason why I thought you and Ingmar would have liked this game.

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