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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  The Secret World  |  Topic: Things you don't like. 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Things you don't like.  (Read 66904 times)
Viin
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Reply #420 on: August 23, 2012, 02:53:07 PM

I dunno, I don't HATE the game, it just doesn't grab me.  There's a lot of stuff I like, I'll probably be back when it's F2P, but for now, it just feels like a drag.

I love the game for what it is but also cancelled before the free month was up.  Something about it just didn't hook me.  I have no real complaints with the game and loved the puzzles and atmosphere.  I just gradually lost interest after finishing Egypt. 

Not enough community building. Games are good and all, but we stay for the people.

- Viin
Threash
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Reply #421 on: August 23, 2012, 04:09:37 PM

I dunno, I don't HATE the game, it just doesn't grab me.  There's a lot of stuff I like, I'll probably be back when it's F2P, but for now, it just feels like a drag.

I love the game for what it is but also cancelled before the free month was up.  Something about it just didn't hook me.  I have no real complaints with the game and loved the puzzles and atmosphere.  I just gradually lost interest after finishing Egypt. 

Not enough community building. Games are good and all, but we stay for the people.

I think this is a big problem with a lot of games lately, i can't find a single reason why i would want other people playing TSW with me.  This is a single player, maybe coop game with multiplayer pvp, no reason for it to be an mmo whatsoever.

I am the .00000001428%
trias_e
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Reply #422 on: August 23, 2012, 07:21:07 PM

I can't argue with that.  I don't really care since this is probably my favorite single player RPG I've played since Vampire: Bloodlines, but it's MMO foundation is questionable at best.   Thanks to instancing and not many people playing the game people generally haven't gotten in the way too much, but I still have to admit that other people have probably detracted from my experience more than they have benefited it. They did do a good job with the 5 man instances, but that's really all that it has going for it in the multiplayer component at least for me.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 07:41:40 PM by trias_e »
Dren
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Reply #423 on: August 24, 2012, 09:00:08 AM

I don't plan to play longer than the one month with original purchase (Ok, maybe one more month....)  I expect this game will go f2p after not too long.  I was really surprised it wasn't that way from the beginning.  It seems to be set up quite well for that and plays like one too.  If it goes f2p, I'll continue to enjoy it.  I just can't justfiy paying a monthy sub for a single player game.  The pvp is not adequate for a sub considering it is far below what I expect these days from completely f2p games out there.

They could pump out add-on questlines and expansions for purchase in their store a la LotRO.  I was really reluctant to pay the upfront cost to begin with.  It just looked so different (and is,) I had to give it a shot.
Teleku
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Reply #424 on: September 17, 2012, 04:32:30 PM

Ok, so I bought this a few weeks back and have been playing it quite a bit up to this point, but I think I'm finally done.  The game is decent overall, but it frankly would have worked better if they had made it a single player RPG, instead of an MMO, which restricted the game play mechanics.  The MMO aspects of the game are minimal overall.  I do really enjoy the setting, however.

In the end though, it just stopped being fun to play.  Biggest culprit was the inability to run more than one quest at a time.  I think this killed it for me worst than anything.  It got so fucking tedious running back and forth across the map constantly, when I could have been using that time to actually play.  Just drove me nuts and made the game tedious.  Final nail in the coffin was the lack of respec.  Killed it for me as I nerfed the shit out of my character when I tried to change into a different build, since I found I wasn't enjoying the one I started with.  I noticed I fell way behind the power curve after this, however, and it made it even more tedious to play.  Horrible design decision.

Canceled my account before free month was up.  Maybe someday I'll find a new MMO where I last longer than that.   Ohhhhh, I see.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 04:34:20 PM by Teleku »

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Ghambit
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Reply #425 on: September 17, 2012, 04:45:37 PM

Eh? You dont have to move around the map at all.  Just ./reset to an anima well.   Lack of respec?  Huh? 

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Teleku
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Reply #426 on: September 17, 2012, 05:02:13 PM

Respec = ability to take the points out of skills you purchased, and put them into something else.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Ingmar
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Reply #427 on: September 17, 2012, 05:20:09 PM

We had this argument before.

Positives of TSW system w.r.t. respecs:

- While there's no respec, you at least don't have to make a new character to try something new.
- Any character can eventually learn every skill

Negatives:

- Having to go back and repeat all the same shit you already did to get skill points in new lines to the point where they're usable doesn't feel any better than rerolling. Arguably feels worse since the character has no identity from the story and also no identity from spec.

For me (and presumably Teleku) the negative is bigger than the positive, obviously not everyone agrees.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Ghambit
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Reply #428 on: September 17, 2012, 05:30:27 PM

I know what a respec is.  Should've put that in green.
Anyways, I gimped myself in KM by trying to roll a hybrid chaos ele build.  It took all of one evening to get back on track and be viable; not a single second of which was wasted re-doing missions.  To each his own I guess, but I dont really see the problem here.  And hell, I'll be using the skills I 'specced' out of anyways.

Aside from maybe Rift, there's been no better 'respec' MMO out there imo.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
trias_e
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Reply #429 on: September 17, 2012, 08:02:15 PM

It may not be instant, but just putting the AP you gain into a new spec while you keep your old one for a little while is a simple answer to this problem that is easy and effective.  If you are past the first few zones it won't take long at all either. I never once repeated anything in the game and had 'respecced' without any problem twice before Egypt, and a few times more by the end of Egypt.  Now perhaps not changing weapons every time, but fully changing the theme and abilities used in the builds I was employing, for sure.  I can sort of seeing it being a concern if you gimp yourself early before the AP flows, but early on you should be able to get through with just about any spec, so you still shouldn't be forced to repeat anything.  

Honestly, my favorite thing about this game:  One mission at a time.  It allows for legitimately good writing and story presentation.  It allows for missions that keep the attention of the player through multiple steps and possibly complicated solutions.  They don't have to worry about the player trying to complete 10 quests at a time and can actually go into depth in presenting a framework for what you are doing.  Even with something as basic as kill quests there is a meatiness to them, a framework that is lacking when you don't have the writing, character, and atmosphere to back it up.  This results in it feeling more like a good single player RPG than an MMO.  For me it takes away the grind and replaces it with a relaxed mood allowing one to appreciate story, setting, and atmosphere.  And it makes anything else feel like a total grindfest to me.  GW2 PvE, being totally the opposite of this approach, is totally ruined for me thanks to this game.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 08:21:24 PM by trias_e »
Teleku
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Reply #430 on: September 17, 2012, 08:46:11 PM

It may not be instant, but just putting the AP you gain into a new spec while you keep your old one for a little while is a simple answer to this problem that is easy and effective.  If you are past the first few zones it won't take long at all either. I never once repeated anything in the game and had 'respecced' without any problem twice before Egypt, and a few times more by the end of Egypt.  Now perhaps not changing weapons every time, but fully changing the theme and abilities used in the builds I was employing, for sure.  I can sort of seeing it being a concern if you gimp yourself early before the AP flows, but early on you should be able to get through with just about any spec, so you still shouldn't be forced to repeat anything.  

Honestly, my favorite thing about this game:  One mission at a time.  It allows for legitimately good writing and story presentation.  It allows for missions that keep the attention of the player through multiple steps and possibly complicated solutions.  They don't have to worry about the player trying to complete 10 quests at a time and can actually go into depth in presenting a framework for what you are doing.  Even with something as basic as kill quests there is a meatiness to them, a framework that is lacking when you don't have the writing, character, and atmosphere to back it up.  This results in it feeling more like a good single player RPG than an MMO.  For me it takes away the grind and replaces it with a relaxed mood allowing one to appreciate story, setting, and atmosphere.  And it makes anything else feel like a total grindfest to me.  GW2 PvE, being totally the opposite of this approach, is totally ruined for me thanks to this game.
On the first point, I respec'ed to a totally different weapon, which may have been the problem.  But still, I don't see the drawback to just allowing a respec.  And Ingmar is correct, I really don't want to repeat shit, but that's what I've been told to do in game and from what I can see browsing other forums.  Just too much extra effort when they could put in a simple solution.  And apologies if you guys have argued over all this already, didn't feel like going back and re-reading all the threads.

On the second point, going to flat out disagree.  I felt there was zero difference between the questing in this game and in WoW/TOR.  It opens up with a nice cinematic scene, sure, but after that its all the same shit.  I ran around and killed zombie rats, then the next tier said I need to go find a paper, so I run around the highlighted area till I see a clickable thing, then it tells me to go kill more shit in another area, then I go find something else it tells me to click.  I didn't even know what was happening story wise most missions.  Just click, click, kill, kill, click.  Exactly the same as WoW in game play, but worst than TOR for quest interaction.  In TOR I got strung along with multiple cut scenes and dialog (which sort of forces you to pay attention), and could even make decisions.  For almost all the quests in this game, once you start it, unless you go click the top left quest log to read the description of the latest tier, you have no idea whats going on.  TOR was better for story and interaction, IMO.

Except now, I can't even work on multiple quests at the same time.  Frankly, this made the game feel like a big grind to me.  In WoW or TOR, I was constantly running through quests and felt like I was always advancing and accomplishing things.  Here I felt like I was artificially being forced to slowly grind my way through shit.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
trias_e
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Reply #431 on: September 17, 2012, 09:29:17 PM

Fair enough.  I can't stand the questing in WoW or ToR at all, but damn do I enjoy it here.  Being really into the atmosphere and setting go a long way no doubt.   I never felt like I didn't know what I was doing, but I did religiously read quest text, and took my time with every bit of dialogue/fluff, so I always felt involved with the story (and I find the story in most of these missions to be much more interesting than what you find elsewhere, even if mechanically it is often similar [not always]).  This game really succeded in turning off my 'achiever mode' (no levels and lateral progression really helped with that too), and felt the way a single player RPG feels to me.  If I was still in achiever mode, I likely would have hated it as well.
Ghambit
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Reply #432 on: September 17, 2012, 10:47:09 PM

-His angst sounds like classic Kingsmouth w/o the benefit of a helping hand (who the hell told him to reroll???).  As said before, FC fucked up a tad with that zone and the lack of any real helpful tutorial.  And older players had the benefit of a healthy playerbase back then.  Also Kingsmouth mostly sucked till near the end unless you had people playing around you; Polaris and the Orochi sections saved it.

-The game was literally designed upside down.  The final zones almost seemed as if they were fleshed out first.

-Boring missions??  Today I performed a hit for an old methuselah that turns into an owl in her spare time.  Only she neglected to tell me the hills were full of snipers.  Had to use cover and terrain to finish what was supposed to be a simple "kill 3 foozles" mission.   Ohhhhh, I see.   After that I got called into an elite wherein we wiped about 6 times due to various fuckups on our part.  Easily solved by better planning and a quick skill change here and there.    In a few hours I had gained over 50AP.

Meh, I give up explaining - I'm starting to feel like a Falconeer.  We'll see what happens after tomorrow's content patch.  Things should be completely different with the new LFG tool, another ability wheel, and a bunch of other stuff to play with.  My cabal has its hands full already just hunting for fragments and running NM's.  How the hell one would need more is beyond me.

Anyways if you havent seen tomorrow's patch video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8k1r-A3UAE
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 02:34:07 AM by Ghambit »

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Llyse
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Reply #433 on: September 17, 2012, 11:05:55 PM

Fair enough.  I can't stand the questing in WoW or ToR at all, but damn do I enjoy it here.  Being really into the atmosphere and setting go a long way no doubt.   I never felt like I didn't know what I was doing, but I did religiously read quest text, and took my time with every bit of dialogue/fluff, so I always felt involved with the story (and I find the story in most of these missions to be much more interesting than what you find elsewhere, even if mechanically it is often similar [not always]).  This game really succeded in turning off my 'achiever mode' (no levels and lateral progression really helped with that too), and felt the way a single player RPG feels to me.  If I was still in achiever mode, I likely would have hated it as well.

Pretty much this, you shouldn't have had to respec nor repeat content but more skill advice from experienced players would have helped. Quest limits irritated me initially but like trias says I eventually learned to take my time.

It's also mentioned that you shouldn't need to backtrack too often because the end point of a quest tends to be close to some other thing/place of note.

Definitely feels like a Single player RPG than an MMO at times though which is its downfall but I love it almost enough to get lifetime sub (almost).

Friends being ahead doesn't bother me since I actually want to experience content. Occassionally doing Fusang PVP dailies also boosts your AP gain.

But if you're not enjoying the writing/quests then there's no point to stay subbed.
DraconianOne
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Reply #434 on: September 18, 2012, 05:17:53 AM

Is there any way to juggle the quest you've got in that system or change the order you complete them in? I'm thinking of the supply run quest in Kingsmouth the Sherrif sends you on. I couldn't work out how I could pick things up in a different order or get both the medpacks she wanted and the cool pack the explosives guy wanted from the Fire station at the same time?

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Lantyssa
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Reply #435 on: September 18, 2012, 09:26:43 AM

Fair enough.  I can't stand the questing in WoW or ToR at all, but damn do I enjoy it here.  Being really into the atmosphere and setting go a long way no doubt.   I never felt like I didn't know what I was doing, but I did religiously read quest text, and took my time with every bit of dialogue/fluff, so I always felt involved with the story (and I find the story in most of these missions to be much more interesting than what you find elsewhere, even if mechanically it is often similar [not always]).  This game really succeded in turning off my 'achiever mode' (no levels and lateral progression really helped with that too), and felt the way a single player RPG feels to me.  If I was still in achiever mode, I likely would have hated it as well.
I'm rarely in Achiever Mode.  I also bounce between things a lot, which is both good and bad.  However it meant that the limitation on number of quests to take felt very restrictive and unnatural because it forced me to play in a way I'm not comfortable with.

I still like the game as a whole, but for me it's a downside.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Teleku
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Reply #436 on: September 18, 2012, 06:24:27 PM

Yeah, sorry guys, wasn't trying to rag on any of you or anything.  Just got upset with the game and figured I'd post my thoughts on it while uninstalling.  You all have valid points, and I can see why you would enjoy it, but it just wasn't working for me.  Lantyssa hit it perfectly.  The quest thing felt artificial, and forced me to play in a way I never like to play, which just soured the entire experience no matter what I was doing.

The point about the lack of information is also valid.  The game was fairly confusing right off, and I spent half the game minimized with google up to figure out what to do.  I 're-rolled' because I just wasn't having fun with my weapons combo, and wanted to try something different.  When I started, I was throwing points into stuff willy nilly at first without much thought, because I just assumed there obviously would be a respec option (then once I had the hang of things, just respec into a good build).  Since, you know, its not the year 2000 and every game has it.  Woops!

Still, it was a great effort.  I really hope they turn this into a single player rpg someday, heh.

Unfortunately I'm still experiencing an mmo craving right now, so guess its time to shell out even more money for Guild Wars 2.  I was sort of hoping this game would keep me involved for a long time till the craving passed, then I could wait out Guild Wars damn 'No Steam' policy.  Alas, looks like I'll cave.  :(

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Maledict
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Reply #437 on: September 19, 2012, 06:01:13 AM

The problem with the questing is that the game does an absolutely terrible job (indeed no job at all) of telling you that they have completely reversed the normal questing paradigm in the game. I was*incredibly* frustrated when I first started playing because I could only do one quest, had to constantly run back to pick up the other quests I had missed and felt overwhelmed because I kept finding quests when exploring that I couldn't pick up because I could only run one quest and felt overwhelmed!

In the end someone explained it to me,and now it feels incredibly easy and organic when playing. There will always be a quest to pick up at the end off chain, and you should never 'run back' for a quest. You will eventually get back to where you started and can do another quest then - the whole game works in circles, rather than the hub model that other games use (and what this game looks like when you first get somewhere and find 5 main quests there).

It's a fantastic way of doing things and really helps their storyline - but it's completely foreign to other games, looks incredibly badly designed when you start playing, and the game doesn't tell you at all about this but just expects you to 'learn it'.
Threash
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Reply #438 on: September 19, 2012, 08:31:44 AM

The quests you run into while questing are the green ones which you can have three of on top of one main/sabotage/investigation quest, you can also have one dungeon quest and the overarching zone quest.

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Reply #439 on: September 19, 2012, 08:39:11 AM

Also*  that might have been mentioned before, but leveling works opposite to other MMORPGs. At first AP/SP come in slow and then start taking up speed. When you are doing Egypt or Romania it's possible to fill out an entire inner section within half an hour. So really any points 'mis-allocated' earlier do not matter at all when deeper inside the game.

*(it's bad to start a sentence with also, right?)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 08:45:08 AM by calapine »

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Teleku
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Reply #440 on: September 19, 2012, 10:04:48 AM

The quests you run into while questing are the green ones which you can have three of on top of one main/sabotage/investigation quest, you can also have one dungeon quest and the overarching zone quest.
Well yes, you see those, but I also kept running into new quest givers all the time while doing a quest, and yes it was frustrating.  Never really noticed the circular thing, but I did have the tendency to always go back to the original quest giver until I had done everything they offered, then moved on to a new one, so there you go.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #441 on: September 19, 2012, 10:34:59 AM

Also*  that might have been mentioned before, but leveling works opposite to other MMORPGs. At first AP/SP come in slow and then start taking up speed. When you are doing Egypt or Romania it's possible to fill out an entire inner section within half an hour. So really any points 'mis-allocated' earlier do not matter at all when deeper inside the game.

*(it's bad to start a sentence with also, right?)

I believe so.

But sometimes it's okay.
Ghambit
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Reply #442 on: September 19, 2012, 11:07:27 AM

The quests you run into while questing are the green ones which you can have three of on top of one main/sabotage/investigation quest, you can also have one dungeon quest and the overarching zone quest.
Well yes, you see those, but I also kept running into new quest givers all the time while doing a quest, and yes it was frustrating.  Never really noticed the circular thing, but I did have the tendency to always go back to the original quest giver until I had done everything they offered, then moved on to a new one, so there you go.

I simply add notes to the map marking where there's stuff I wanna do.  When I'm done with said stuff, I erase the bookmark unless I intend to repeat it.  This keeps one from having to sift back through the mission log or wander around looking for missions.  The mission log btw, I wish was ordered chronologically by completion. 

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DraconianOne
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Reply #443 on: September 19, 2012, 03:30:41 PM

In the end someone explained it to me,and now it feels incredibly easy and organic when playing. There will always be a quest to pick up at the end off chain, and you should never 'run back' for a quest. You will eventually get back to where you started and can do another quest then - the whole game works in circles, rather than the hub model that other games use (and what this game looks like when you first get somewhere and find 5 main quests there).

It's a fantastic way of doing things and really helps their storyline - but it's completely foreign to other games, looks incredibly badly designed when you start playing, and the game doesn't tell you at all about this but just expects you to 'learn it'.

 Ohhhhh, I see.

I can now see why I have problems with this game and why it annoys me so much - I just don't work like that. That kind of inefficiency drives me nuts.

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Reply #444 on: September 19, 2012, 03:32:13 PM

And frankly the game actually doesn't really work like that in my experience, not through the first 3 zones at least.

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Reply #445 on: September 19, 2012, 03:42:50 PM

It absolutely did for me. There was always a breadcrumb quest at the end of a main quest that led to another main quest giver. at the end of beta they even did a specific pass and asked folks to identify quests which didn't have a breadcrumb quest near so they could add one to ensure the flow worked.

Re. effieciency - it's more efficient than the standard wow quest hub model in that you are always questing - you never spend time running back anywhere. It's just very foreign to that model and difficult to get used to.
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Reply #446 on: September 19, 2012, 03:51:33 PM

Yeah that is how it worked for me, but not on my first character/run through. This problem I chalk up more to poor documentation than anything though, as on my second character when I finally stopped worrying about returning to the first quest area I found it flowed really well (even in the KM/SC/BM areas).

Though it really is going against everything that has been driven into us the last 7+ years and it's tough to get used to cmopletely, I still find myself trying to go back to the original quest area I started at for that day.
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Reply #447 on: September 19, 2012, 03:53:10 PM

But there was often nothing that led *back* to the other quests that you didn't do yet on the prior main quest giver, and that's setting aside how the side quests derailed you off the 'route' all the time.

I had 3 or 4 different quests send me running back to the fire house in Kingsport to do different things there. Same thing in the amusement park in the next zone. If that's not backtracking I don't know what is.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Reply #448 on: September 19, 2012, 05:40:08 PM

I can't remember not finding my way back eventually, though yes there was backtracking to the same area multiple times (I don't think anyone said otherwise, only that you don't spend time returning to the quest giver specifically).
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Reply #449 on: September 19, 2012, 07:43:17 PM

I can't remember not finding my way back eventually, though yes there was backtracking to the same area multiple times (I don't think anyone said otherwise, only that you don't spend time returning to the quest giver specifically).

Yeah, the best part is getting quest rewards without having to return. I still don't like the quest limitations but I do adore and notice running along a given quest and finding the repeatable side quest like a message in a bottle. That's nice.
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Reply #450 on: September 20, 2012, 12:42:53 AM

I can't remember not finding my way back eventually, though yes there was backtracking to the same area multiple times (I don't think anyone said otherwise, only that you don't spend time returning to the quest giver specifically).

Yeah, the best part is getting quest rewards without having to return. I still don't like the quest limitations but I do adore and notice running along a given quest and finding the repeatable side quest like a message in a bottle. That's nice.

Not having to run back to turn in is great from a gameplay perspective, but it actually sometimes is really weird/bad from a narrative perspective - no closing dialogue from the quest giver in some cases really makes no sense.

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Segoris
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Reply #451 on: September 20, 2012, 10:50:25 AM

The closing dialogue is in the window showing rewards. I'd [almost] agree that not returning to the quest giver is bad from a narrative perspective if it was not a modern setting, though even in games where there is magic I'd be alright with that too if it was as magical world.
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Reply #452 on: September 20, 2012, 11:32:54 AM

The closing dialog is always from home base though, never from the quest givers.

I am the .00000001428%
Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 14459

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #453 on: September 20, 2012, 11:51:39 AM

In most situations, it makes no sense to go back to the quest giver unless you're actually bringing them something (which you do occasionally).  You're not working for them, you're working for your faction.  Your reports go to your faction.  You have a cell phone, super human thumbs, and 3-5 bars of reception everywhere.

-Rasix
Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637


Reply #454 on: September 20, 2012, 12:06:53 PM

Exactly what Rasix said.
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