Inferno Mode

[Nonentity]

Hi! Lets talk about Inferno difficulty here.

Playing as a Barbarian. Rocking about 40k health, 15k or so damage. Can reliably (in a group) plow through Act 1 Inferno. I still, however, get instagibbed by so many different attributes (molten vortex arcane plagued? SUPER AWESOME). You are pretty much shoehorned as a melee into going as absolutely tanky as humanly possible, with as much lifesteal as you can muster. You'll still die, and die a lot.

Despite the fact that with my stats I can currently do "okay" in Act 1, white named common mobs in Act 2 can still two shot me. Oy.

I know people who have death rushed all the way through Act 4, and are having 3 people stack Magic Find, while one person goes and spawns one of the purple named guys at the Silver Spire, kills it, then rinse and repeat. Not even bothering with Nephalem Valor. They're reliably making millions of gold a day. But, y'know, I don't consider that actually "playing", that's just... dumb.

It doesn't seem like the gear that exists in the game can scale, even in best case scenario, to actually be able to play and beat those difficulty levels without mountains and mountains of deaths. Oh well.

Anyone else having any luck with inferno?

[Trippy]

I'm nowhere near Inferno yet but reading the official forums () only Wizard and Demon Hunter are viable in the later stages of Inferno currently. If you can't kill while kiting you are basically screwed right now.

[Ingmar]

I believe the intent is that you have to farm Hell for a good long while before you can start to be effective in IN-FER-NOOOOOO. It doesn't really surprise me that people in general aren't there yet.

[Azuredream]

My wizard is now 60 and kicking around in Inferno solo. Act I has been pretty easy, just an extension of Hell but occasionally a champion pack will have an absolutely evil combination of abilities that I have to bypass to continue. I have heard that the difficulty starts ramping up significantly in Act II and beyond. I'll probably have to stop and farm for a bit to make sure my gear is passable but Act I Inferno is not much harder than Act IV Hell.

[kildorn]

Is that just due to Act 1's mob types (zombies EVERYWHERE!) are pretty tame just by their design? I find Act 1 anything to be pretty easy on my wizard because kiting zombies isn't really Hard, and they don't tend to throw a ton of fast movers at you besides the bats that don't stick around to press the attack.

Act 2 is mean because they throw Lacuni at you right off the bat, with their bullshit immunity frames.

[FieryBalrog]

From what I've seen, the worst part of Act 2 Inferno is

[Xanthippe]

I did not read much on Diablo 3 as it was being developed (purposely).

Am I right in thinking that Inferno was added in to give people something to do after hitting max_level? To give D3 some sort of end game, to give people something to continue to strive toward while being really really really hard?

Or is it supposed to be like WoW's ultra-hard-mode raids (sorry, forget what they're called now)?

I assume that Blizzard is planning on keeping their money train going by publishing expansions to this franchise, maybe upping max_level or introducing more content or just adding better equipment?

There is _such_ a difference between regular mobs and blue packs. Is Inferno supposed to be practically impossible, or is it supposed to be doable with top-notch gear/skills? I'm trying to understand the vision here.

[Malakili]

I did not read much on Diablo 3 as it was being developed (purposely).

Am I right in thinking that Inferno was added in to give people something to do after hitting max_level? To give D3 some sort of end game, to give people something to continue to strive toward while being really really really hard?

Or is it supposed to be like WoW's ultra-hard-mode raids (sorry, forget what they're called now)?

A bit of both.  It is definitely not necessarily meant that you make a smooth transition from Hell -> Inferno, they've stated you'll need to build up your gear in Hell before going into Inferno (or, visit the AH and gear up, but that is a separate issue).  It is also meant to be an end game which is more progression based than just farming based.  Inferno is supposed to be practically impossible *if you go to it directly after beating Act 4 hell with no upgrades*, but it is supposed to be doable.   That being said, I do recall them saying they didn't think much of their playerbase would do Inferno.  However, I think that had less to do with difficulty and more to do with the fact that they anticipated most of their players never bother to get to 60 in the first place.

They addressed some of this in the recent game update post, so I'll just quote it here.

Inferno is intended to be extremely difficult, but with some specific skills, a few classes were simply able to progress far more easily than intended. This made the classes, which were about where they were supposed to be, seem very underpowered. It also created the perception that the classes doing well were intended to rely on specific runes in all their builds, and the other classes were just broken. This is the opposite of what’s true. If any single skill or rune feels absolutely required to progress, it means that skill is working against our goal of encouraging build diversity -- and those “required” skills need to be corrected. We know these hotfixes snuck up on people, and it took us a day or so to communicate that they had gone live. However, our intent moving forward is that when there are circumstances where a hotfix is necessary, we’ll  communicate changes that could impact your ability to play your class through ‘Upcoming Changes’ posts in the General forum. Ideally, we’ll let you know as soon as we even have the idea that we want to make that kind of change.

That said, we also wanted to let you know we’re keeping a close eye on Inferno. The intent of incoming damage is that it should be a very consistent drain on your health, and mitigating that drain is a major part of what makes Inferno mode difficult. Right now, there’s a lot more damage “spikiness” occurring than feels right, and that’s one major area we’re looking to adjust in patch 1.0.3. While we don’t have any specifics yet, our design goals are to support and promote build diversity; continue to ensure that a mix of champion packs, rare packs, and boss fights are the most efficient way to acquire the best items in the game; and ensure that all classes are viable in Inferno.

From a high-level perspective, we think a more fundamentally fun way to approach difficulty in Inferno isn't seeing how much incoming damage you can avoid or mitigate, but rather to see how efficient you can be while voluntarily taking on a challenge that pushes you. For anybody who's ever died because they chased a Treasure Goblin too aggressively, you know what we mean; dying because you got greedy or overconfident can actually be a lot of fun. Now that the skills mentioned above have been brought more in line, we’ll be keeping a close eye on balance.

We've also seen some people saying our intention with Inferno is just one-shot you to make it difficult. While damage is a bit spikier than we'd like, we're actually seeing a pretty significant number of people attempting Inferno without sufficient gear. There's a good chance that returning to the previous Act to farm upgrades will do the most to help you survive. That said, we’d like to shift some of the focus away from survival and more toward using a variety of offensive tactics to succeed. Survival will still be important, but finding ways to maximize your damage while staying alive is more exciting. We’re not particularly concerned with whether or not a boss is “beatable,” though it should feel epic and challenging to defeat it. We’re more concerned with ensuring that acquiring 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor and taking on as many Champions and Rares as you can remains the most challenging and rewarding way to play.

[Shatter]

Are inferno mobs anymore resistant / immune to CC?  My wizard is 60 and I pretty much run a kite build that works well in Hell mode, was planning to do the same in inferno.  

[Xanthippe]

That being said, I do recall them saying they didn't think much of their playerbase would do Inferno.  However, I think that had less to do with difficulty and more to do with the fact that they anticipated most of their players never bother to get to 60 in the first place.

Huh. I'd expect most people to get a character to 60, if they like the game, given the changes made to talents and specs and respec ability and so on. For me, that's a big plus that D2 didn't have - I had to make a whole new character if I picked shitty stuff to try out on a spec.

I never got past normal mode in D2, I kept making new characters all the time. Maybe that's one reason why I like D3 better.

[Azuredream]

Are inferno mobs anymore resistant / immune to CC?  My wizard is 60 and I pretty much run a kite build that works well in Hell mode, was planning to do the same in inferno.  

The champions and elites are all very CC resistant. I don't remember what it was in Hell, but CC lasts maybe ~25% of the duration it would last on a generic mob.

[Amaron]

I believe the intent is that you have to farm Hell for a good long while before you can start to be effective in IN-FER-NOOOOOO. It doesn't really surprise me that people in general aren't there yet.

It's simple math to show this isn't working.   Trash mobs in act 2 hit for like 200k+ vs a naked char.    The formulas are well known and getting the kind of gear required to handle that never drops in Act 1.    

[apocrypha]

So does anyone have any tips for farming for gold in order to gear up for Inferno?

I seem to be constantly broke thanks to trying to gear up a few characters enough to get through Hell! I'm terrible at playing the AH game generally, my brain just doesn't work that way.

Would farming Hell with MF work better than GF or the other way round?

[Azuredream]

You can stack Nephalem Valor on all difficulties. I don't know if you get the bonus boss drops but the 60% MF/GF buff will be present, so you shouldn't have to go out of your way to stack magic find or gold find. Also, Act I Inferno is not particularly difficult (at least compared to the later acts) so I wouldn't be too quick to assume you can't beat it if you haven't tried yet.

[Thrawn]

Also, Act I Inferno is not particularly difficult (at least compared to the later acts) so I wouldn't be too quick to assume you can't beat it if you haven't tried yet.

Agreed, it seemed to me like if you didn't have much difficulty in beating Hell, you don't have much difficulty in Act 1 Inferno.  Act 2 Inferno however will make you weep silently when the first normal white mob pack destroys you just after you wrecked the Butcher and every elite pack up to him on Inferno without a problem.

[Shatter]

So does anyone have any tips for farming for gold in order to gear up for Inferno?

I seem to be constantly broke thanks to trying to gear up a few characters enough to get through Hell! I'm terrible at playing the AH game generally, my brain just doesn't work that way.

Would farming Hell with MF work better than GF or the other way round?

I got the same issue.  Most of my drops dont sell for shit and I havent even got 1 legendary drop yet so money I make is pure mobs drops that get vendored and cash.  I think after I complete hell I will farm it with + cash gear.

[Malakili]

Farming Hell Whimsyshire with my friend has been netting a fair share of gold and decent items.

[Amaron]

Agreed, it seemed to me like if you didn't have much difficulty in beating Hell, you don't have much difficulty in Act 1 Inferno.  Act 2 Inferno however will make you weep silently when the first normal white mob pack destroys you just after you wrecked the Butcher and every elite pack up to him on Inferno without a problem.

This is what bothers me and makes it so obvious they broke Inferno on purpose.   You can DESTROY act 1 like you're some kind of god but going to act 2 will then destroy you in turn.   There's no sense of progression with it.   If you find act 1 super super easy then it should be time to go on to act 2.   That's not the case at all.    Going from act 2 to act 3 is a similar exponential step up as well.

[Thrawn]

Going from act 2 to act 3 is a similar exponential step up as well.

That worries me, I'm up to over 900 all resist when my shout is up and I'm still about 50/50 on if I can beat an elite pack I find in Act 2 and I still die a LOT compared to anywhere else.

However, Act 2 also gave me this last night, so I can forgive it for a while.

[Amaron]

900 already?! Must be nice to be a barb.   All the dex/resist or int/resist gear is expensive through the roof because all the rich people are DH/Wiz's.

[Azuredream]

The HP/Damage of stuff ramps up in Act III but I think the mob types and environment there are generally easier to deal with than Act II. From the perspective of a ranged character, anyway. I know I died much less clearing Act III than I did clearing Act II. I'm scared to start Act IV.

If you're up to Act III, you can start the Siegebreaker quest and fight the champion mobs, and if you die, just go take a break or something and Tyrael will kill everything for you, being completely invincible.

That is an awesome amulet.

[Amaron]

The HP/Damage of stuff ramps up in Act III but I think the mob types and environment there are generally easier to deal with than Act II. From the perspective of a ranged character, anyway.

Yea HP ramps up much slower than damage.   So for the people kiting act 3 and maybe act 4 is easier.   Basically if you're getting 1 shot by everything you want the mobs that are easier to dodge.

[Thrawn]

900 already?! Must be nice to be a barb.   All the dex/resist or int/resist gear is expensive through the roof because all the rich people are DH/Wiz's.

Str/Vit/Res All is more expensive than other gear it seems.  I have no idea why since Barb is the only class using Str as a primary stat.  My only guess is because Barbs need it the worst since we have no choice but to wade into the mobs and tank the damage so every Barb that hits Inferno is on the AH.

I just have a good amount of $$ from playing the AH and have sacraficed a lot of my DPS to get high RA/Armor/Vit.

[Amaron]

Str/Vit/Res All is more expensive than other gear it seems.  I have no idea why since Barb is the only class using Str as a primary stat. 

It just looks more expensive because there's not much to compare it too.   All the dex/vit/all res stuff gets bought instantly no matter how expensive.   If I go to search for str stuff when I have a piece to sell there's about 10x as much gear available.

[Arinon]

Hitting the end of Act3 Inferno now.  For reference 95% of my play is as a DH with a Wiz partner, the rest is solo.  

Act 1 Inferno is easy.  This is due to the base mob types in most of Act 1 being slooooow.  Baring a nasty combo of elites you can kite or rez zerg most packs.  Butcher required some farming and AH but we never stopped progressing until we hit him.  The Warden and Skelly King both drop pretty well with a full NV stack.  A few upgrades this way but mostly you sell decent items and get coin for large upgrades.  

Act 2 hits you in the face right away as mentioned earlier.  Bees are sort of annoying at the start but easy to get used to because they move so slow.  The problem here is a shitton of mob types that move really fucking fast or straight up teleport on top of you.  Belial was a showstopper for several days but we found he's easier with two than with one, contrary to most bosses up to that point.  He also seems to eat people that haven't keep their defenses up.  The run up to Zoltun has pretty nice geography so we did quite a bit of Zoltun farming.

Act 3 is easier than Act 2 because, again, most of the mob types are slow or they stand around shooting at you.  Glom was cake and I'm lead to believe Siegebreaker and Azmodan are as well.

As far as gearing goes, aside from dropping 1.6m on weapon I haven't spent more than 800k on an item.

I'm sure I've had it easier than most given the class comp but I'm leveling up a monk to see how the other half lives.  Has mostly the same gear requirements as the DH so that should be nice.

[Arinon]

Str/Vit/Res All is more expensive than other gear it seems.

I haven't found that to be true at ALL.  Str seems to be just as common as Dex/Int but has half the market.  Trying to sell Barb gear is always a disappointment.

Also, that necklace is fucking bananas.

[Thrawn]

I haven't found that to be true at ALL.  Str seems to be just as common as Dex/Int but has half the market.  Trying to sell Barb gear is always a disappointment.

Searching for All Armor > 50 Res All > 80 Vit > 80 Str for Maximum 500k gives me 1 item.  Doing the same for Dex gives me a full page. Doing the same for Int gives me 2 pages.  

Doing the same for 1mil gives me 3 pages of Str and 6+ of Dex and Int.

Just depends on the specifics of what you are looking for I guess.  I consider anything with less than 50 all resist to not be worth my time unless it's really cheap.

[Arinon]

Yeah, I probably should have been more specific.  Resist All mucks up my valuation because for some reason only Barbs really seem to latch on to it.  I don't think you can finish Inferno without getting hit but the other classes have been slower to see the value of resists.

[Job601]

My monk is in a sweet spot in Act I Inferno right now where the difficulty is just about right -- I can use some fun abilities, I have to move around and use different buttons to live against elites, but I'm also not just kiting forever or dying instantly.  Act 2 is still impossible for me.  I still find an upgrade every three or four Butcher runs, so I guess I have a long way to go.

[waffel]

My monk is in a sweet spot in Act I Inferno right now where the difficulty is just about right -- I can use some fun abilities, I have to move around and use different buttons to live against elites, but I'm also not just kiting forever or dying instantly.  Act 2 is still impossible for me.  I still find an upgrade every three or four Butcher runs, so I guess I have a long way to go.

Same boat. My Monk is pretty fun in Act 1 inferno, but nothing useful has dropped for me in many days. Act 2 is still impossible. Not sure if grinding Act 1 for another week is worth it, or I'll just put the game down. Seeing wizards and DHs having a field day in Inferno makes me kind of angry.

So does anyone have any tips for farming for gold in order to gear up for Inferno?

I seem to be constantly broke thanks to trying to gear up a few characters enough to get through Hell! I'm terrible at playing the AH game generally, my brain just doesn't work that way.

Would farming Hell with MF work better than GF or the other way round?

I stacked as much GF as possible on my Monk (I think I had over 200) and ran from Azmodon's chamber to the WP in Nightmare killing everything and collecting all the gold. I did it for an hour (one of the most boring gaming experiences of my life, mind you) and made 280k. Not sure if that's something you want to do (I did it once and will never do it again...) but throwing it out there for ya.

[Miasma]

Why do people say that you need drops from the later acts to survive inferno act 2?  Does the best gear only drop in act 4 or do you still have a small chance to find it in act 1?  That's something I've wondered in general, does each act have something akin to a loot table or is it all just random throught a difficulty?

I just stepped into inferno and it seems okay, like others are saying, act 1 wise.

[Thrawn]

I just stepped into inferno and it seems okay, like others are saying, act 1 wise.

As I already learned the hard way, Act 1 Inferno to Act 2 Inferno feels like skipping from Act 1 NM to Act 4 Hell.

The gear drops I'm getting from Act 1 Inferno are mostly terrible by comparison, lots of items in the low 50s even still.

[Ragnoros]

Why do people say that you need drops from the later acts to survive inferno act 2?  Does the best gear only drop in act 4 or do you still have a small chance to find it in act 1?  That's something I've wondered in general, does each act have something akin to a loot table or is it all just random throught a difficulty?

I just stepped into inferno and it seems okay, like others are saying, act 1 wise.

Items have hidden* ilvls (much like in wow) that determine which, and more importantly, how high a given affix can roll. So in act one inferno the highest ilvl possible to drop might be 61, while act two inferno might be 63, and so forth (exact information is not public yet). So yes, the best gear in the game ONLY drops in act 4 (act three might have some overlap).

*A forthcoming patch will display ilvls on items.

Anyway. Working towards act 2 on my monk myself. Act one is total easymode; I can run conviction and whatever dps abilities I want and still survive just fine 95% of the time. Act two just demolishes me though. I'm at 44k hp, 640 resists (68%) 5600 armor (65%), 12.5k dps, and 40% dodge. Anyone who has made progress care to share what stats it took?

[Thrawn]

Anyway. Working towards act 2 on my monk myself. Act one is total easymode; I can run conviction and whatever dps abilities I want and still survive just fine 95% of the time. Act two just demolishes me though. I'm at 44k hp, 640 resists (68%) 5600 armor (65%), 12.5k dps, and 40% dodge. Anyone who has made progress care to share what stats it took?

I've got a few slots that can use significant upgrades (my shield is a big one) but for the most part, I consider my gear pretty decent and Act 2 is still a problem for me.  I progress so slow it's barely worth it and I still can't handle about 50% of the elite packs I find.

My Stats

[apocrypha]

Farming Hell Whimsyshire with my friend has been netting a fair share of gold and decent items.

Just did a Hell run through of this, took 30 mins including the time it took to get 5 stacks of NV, netted me about 50k after I'd sold everything.  So 7 hours or so to recoup the cost of the staff Still can't find anywhere that gives me more than about 100k/hour.

Still, I am mostly doing OK in Act 1 Inferno so far with my mediocre geared monk. Some affix combos I cannot kill, particularly things with multiple damage abilities like molten/plagued/arcane or with those and vortex/jailor etc. Not had a single upgrade drop yet though, in fact I don't think I've had any upgrades that didn't come from the AH since Normal.