Complaints, gripes, kvetches...

[Ragnoros]

Nevermind. I'm just going to stop reading this thread.

I will say I am sorry many of our Euro members have had such a hard time playing, and that Blizzard should feel ashamed at such ineptitude, regardless of financial or whatever the fuck considerations.

[Ironwood]

This is the new Blizzard.  I suspect things are going to be like this for good now.  It's back to being about the bottom line and the least one can get away with.

Diablo III is pretty much the definition of 'the least one can get away with'.  I know for a fact if it hadn't been Blizzard or have the word Diablo in it, even the chaps here with glowing praise would be fucking panning it.

Ah well.  Torchlight Test Time, I guess.

[Ragnoros]

Diablo III is pretty much the definition of 'the least one can get away with'.  I know for a fact if it hadn't been Blizzard or have the word Diablo in it, even the chaps here with glowing praise would be fucking panning it.

I don't know. I can't speak for everyone, but personally I would hardly consider my consensus "glowing praise". To put my words into the mouths of others who are defending the game, I believe it comes down to a lot of the bitching here being bitching about what makes Diablo, Diablo. Which the old Diablo diehards like myself just feel compelled to defend. Diablo without a lot of random crappy loot is just not Diablo.

I can radially agree that the game is far from perfect. Probably far from great for that matter.
Ignoring the server issues. As has be said many times, it just seems like they ignored many of the lessons learned from D2:LoD and the later patches in favor of doing their new vision, or whatever. But the game has been mostly fun (if not raptor jesus) for the many hours I have played. So I can't bitch too much.

(Yes, I know I said I was going to stop reading this thread...)

[Ironwood]

It's strange, I agree with everything you just wrote, except the bit about 'mostly fun'.  I'm not seeing the fun.  Possibly, I'm suffering from the primacy effect where my bad experiences out the gate has coloured my perceptions but I don't think so.

I just don't find it fun.  I don't find it as fun as other Diablo's, even now. 

Here's my final word on the matter :  Playing Diablo III feels exactly to me as if I'm playing Titan Quest.  And I didn't like Titan Quest all that much.  Same problems of loot, same problems of enemies and toughness, same problem of skill trees and skills that blew.  Now stick in the AH to 'help you through that rough patch' and you feel....dirty.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

I have found 5 legendarys. Don't you use magic find gear?

Try not to be a dick about having a different experience than someone else. I have two level 60s with combined play-time of 130 hours, one of whom has been in 100-150% magic find gear more or less perpetually, the other having spent 30 odd hours farming Act 1 Inferno in similar gear -- and so far I have found two legendaries.

Random numbers are random, but I seem to encounter a lot more people with my anecdotal experience than yours.

[Ragnoros]

It's strange, I agree with everything you just wrote, except the bit about 'mostly fun'.  I'm not seeing the fun.  Possibly, I'm suffering from the primacy effect where my bad experiences out the gate has coloured my perceptions but I don't think so.

I just don't find it fun.  I don't find it as fun as other Diablo's, even now. 

Here's my final word on the matter :  Playing Diablo III feels exactly to me as if I'm playing Titan Quest.  And I didn't like Titan Quest all that much.  Same problems of loot, same problems of enemies and toughness, same problem of skill trees and skills that blew.  Now stick in the AH to 'help you through that rough patch' and you feel....dirty.

Thanks. Obviously if you are not having fun (or your servers do not work) then you are not having fun, and you have every right to bitch. But per f13 it seems like many people (not you specifically) go out of their way to not have fun so they can have something to bitch about.

I know I can feel I am getting to the end of what fun/content is available. I have battled most of the way through Inferno Act 3 and feel little need to do Act 4. But more importantly, the main draw I was hoping for, getting a bunch of MF and collecting every fun new unique and set item to play with on twinks and just for fun, simply does not exist in the game. Lawl at 100+ hours played (all with a bunch of MF) and like 4 legendary items found + crappy random uniques and sets. As others have said, for a game X years in the making, it does feel a bit content light.

[Merusk]

I almost get the feeling D3 is aimed at a different audience and the old one can't adapt.  I'm enjoying it and I know it's not because it says "Blizzard" and certainly not because it says "Diablo" but because I find it entertaining.

I hated D2, couldn't ever get in to it.  Tried Titan Quest and didn't like it and I know that Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance for the PS2 had a lot of proponents but I just couldn't get into that, either.    Played Torchlight and it was entertaining and I liked the loot there despite that getting panned.  Different strokes, different gamer appeals.

I don't think it's about "the least you can get away with" but it certainly IS a different Blizzard.  That's become more apparent over the last 4 years and I agree it's not for the best.  That this game spent the majority of it's development in that culture does mean it will be a different game.  More focused on revenue over the long term and strategic business decisions than the best gameplay.   

I'd agree that the legendaries part was done on purpose for expansion content.  Seems a simple decision, give them a taste the real kick comes with the first X-pack! (I expect no fewer than 3).   

I'd also agree that Hardcore was done to appeal to very tiny fraction of the playerbase.   Much like the Hardcore modes of WoW raids. "L2P" is the mantra of the new Blizzard and that drives Achievement players.  Their WoW stats have shown that there's a hell of a lot of achievement players out there and if you get content where only a fraction can complete it, the idea that you can do it trickles down.   It's the new e-peen and the drama keeps players engaged.

Then there will be some stupid new difficulty level with the x-pack.  Inferno will get easier as the gear inflates along with levels and the new stupid difficulty will be "killer clown" or "Abyss" or whatever other analog for "the bad place" they come up with to name it.

[Tebonas]

Before you vacate the thread for good Ironwood, here the promised answer from Blizzard:

--- quote ---
Sorry about the wait time at the moment. We are currently dealing with the launch of a new product along with the on-going support for Scroll of Resurrection, MoP Beta, Recruit a Friend and the Arena Pass. This has led to a longer than usual response time and we thank you for your patience while we work through this busy period.

       The previous response you have given is correct and this is our current stance on the refunds for digital content purchases which includes Diablo 3. If you wish to take this matter further as you believe the law in your country allows for a longer refund period then you shall need to discuss this matter with our legal department.

       You can contact our Legal team at:

       Blizzard Entertainment Europe
       Legal Department
       145, rue Yves Le Coz
       78000 Versailles
       France

--- quote

Which I translate in my head as "You are right, sue us you sucker".

[Merusk]

I'd agree with that translation. 

[Ironwood]

That would be like attacking an insane asylum with a banana.

[Tebonas]

Yeah, I think I will just keep my Account and call this one the fee for my "Don't buy anything from Blizzard anymore" epiphany.

[Paelos]

Did you attempt to get your refund within 7 business days?

[Jeff Kelly]

Paelos there is no "refund within 7 business days".

Blizzard grants a refund within 14 days if no account was activated and 3 days if an account was activated. I already posted that info a few pages ago.

[Paelos]

That wasn't why I was asking.

The reason I was asking was because as far as I know Austria falls under the Consumer Protection Laws of the European Union, which has protection for consumers on distance contracts.

Under Directive 97/7/EC, Article 6 section 1: "For any distance contract the consumer shall have seven working days in which to withdraw from the contract without penalty and without giving any reason."

[Slayerik]

I'll pop in and be a defender. My entire house plays this game. One of my sons just beat Diablo (after some AHing by me). Whenever you see a non-HC guy playing it's one of my family, and they are all enjoying the crap out of it. So, I guess it may be good for the less jaded/experienced. We have had no real problems, minus the first day or two of server issues.  

I personally am hooked on hardcore, but I've always been a little extreme on that kinda shit (enjoy full looting games, consequences in my games). Trying to get to 60 completely solo. Just started Hell.

They did some shit right, but I think it def could have been thought out better. I have been into it more than I was D2, for whatever reason.

[Tebonas]

No Paelos, KSchG §8. Warranty due to flaws.

[Jeff Kelly]

Under Directive 97/7/EC, Article 6 section 1: "For any distance contract the consumer shall have seven working days in which to withdraw from the contract without penalty and without giving any reason."

BTW SW is treated like any other sale of physical goods even including the applicability of the "first sale" doctrine. (shrink wrap licenses are invalid in the EU because you can only accept or decline them AFTER you made the purchase). The deadline is also 14 days now not 7.

Merchandise that is unsuitable or unfit for return is exempt from that regulation however. Software is exempt from those regulations when it falls under one or more of the following conditions.

1. The physical medium was sealed and the seal is broken
2. There is no physical medium (direct download)
3. It is only usable after an acount is activated and said account was already activated

So the only other recourse for returning is if it is defective or unfit for the purpose that it was advertised.

So the only other option is either the manufacturer's warranty (which doesn't apply because of the 3 business days rule) or general goodwill from Blizzard

[Job601]

This is the new Blizzard.  I suspect things are going to be like this for good now.  It's back to being about the bottom line and the least one can get away with.

Diablo III is pretty much the definition of 'the least one can get away with'.  I know for a fact if it hadn't been Blizzard or have the word Diablo in it, even the chaps here with glowing praise would be fucking panning it.

I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.  Look how much praise Torchlight got, and that game (while pretty good) is not even in the same class in pretty much any department!  I agree with many of the criticisms in this thread, but if anything, I think people are attacking the game more than it deserves because their expectations from Blizzard are sky-high.

[Malakili]

I personally am hooked on hardcore, but I've always been a little extreme on that kinda shit (enjoy full looting games, consequences in my games). Trying to get to 60 completely solo. Just started Hell.
 

How has this been going in terms of server stability?  I'm really hesitant to play HC due to lag spikes, which I seem to get a couple of times a night.

[Phred]

I have found 5 legendarys. Don't you use magic find gear?

Try not to be a dick about having a different experience than someone else. I have two level 60s with combined play-time of 130 hours, one of whom has been in 100-150% magic find gear more or less perpetually, the other having spent 30 odd hours farming Act 1 Inferno in similar gear -- and so far I have found two legendaries.

Random numbers are random, but I seem to encounter a lot more people with my anecdotal experience than yours.

What? It's being a dick to ask if you use magic find gear? Who knew? Maybe try not to be so sensitive? I know Ironwood would have tore my head off if it actually offended him.

[Phred]

I almost get the feeling D3 is aimed at a different audience and the old one can't adapt.  I'm enjoying it and I know it's not because it says "Blizzard" and certainly not because it says "Diablo" but because I find it entertaining.

Well from the amount of time their servers have been up we know it wasn't aimed at Koreans heh.

[Ironwood]

I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.

Really ?  Really ??

(and, no, Phred, not offended.  Don't use magic find, but didnt in D2 either, so...)

[Job601]

I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.

Really ?  Really ??

Yeah, really.  That's the same reaction I had to what you said!

[Ironwood]

Which is fine, but you think that story is the best in action RPG ? 

You think the skills and the range of same beat others in the genre ?

You think the graphics and audio beat all others hands down ?

The launch was smooth, right ?  And the Auction house doesn't break the fun at all and turn it into a gold farming simulator ?  The Enemies are totally balanced and have a nice scaling difficulty like many others in the genre ?

I disagree, really.  I'm still saying 'Titan Quest with a Blizzard Logo on it.'

But I'm glad you're enjoying it.  Really. 

[Slayerik]

I personally am hooked on hardcore, but I've always been a little extreme on that kinda shit (enjoy full looting games, consequences in my games). Trying to get to 60 completely solo. Just started Hell.
 

How has this been going in terms of server stability?  I'm really hesitant to play HC due to lag spikes, which I seem to get a couple of times a night.

*Knocks on wood* I play from starting at 9-10pm EST until 1-2am EST and have had no real issues with lag/DCs/spikes. I figure that will probably be what gets me. That or a vortex arc enchanted immune BS pack.

Once you try hardcore and see the difference in the AH, I have found it hard to go back. So far I've lost a 34 DH, and a couple lowbie wizards. It gets quite a bit easier to plow through the early levels once you get a few items in your stash, and gems. If you end up playing HC hit me up.

[Maledict]

I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.

Really ?  Really ??

(and, no, Phred, not offended.  Don't use magic find, but didnt in D2 either, so...)

If you were finding sets and uniques in D2 without MF then you were the luckiest man alive. Drop rate was MUCH lower in D2 because you could stack MF to ridiculous levels, far higher than D3. Without MF even the Lord of Shopping Trolleys dropped crap.

[Job601]

You think the skills and the range of same beat others in the genre ?

I emphatically do think this.  There's no game in the genre that has as many different interesting skills that can be combined in so many interesting ways, which different kinds of builds being viable at different player power levels and for different kinds of enemies.  This is my favorite part of the game.  In fact, it's just not even close, and it's hard for me to believe people disagree about this.  The class design in this game is just fantastic -- they made five classes who all have different resource mechanics, and they all matter (or at least can't be trivialized with gear.)  I'm not sure I have ever played a game like this where running out of a resource was a thing you had to worry about past early levels.

You think the graphics and audio beat all others hands down ?

They're not perfect, but yeah, I guess I would say this -- the voice-acting is overall pretty good, the game is both great-looking in its own painterly way and communicates what's going on very clearly.  Again, what game is going to compete with it?

The launch was smooth, right ?  And the Auction house doesn't break the fun at all and turn it into a gold farming simulator ?  The Enemies are totally balanced and have a nice scaling difficulty like many others in the genre ?

The launch is a valid complaint, I guess, but since the first week it's been pretty much smooth sailing here in the U.S.  Forget the launch, that's a week out of a game people will play for years.  The Auction House does have disadvantages, but it has a lot of advantages, too.  It's a design choice with costs and benefits.

I don't know what game in this genre you're thinking of that has nice scaling difficulty.  There's nothing in this game as unbalanced and unfair as a lightning enchanted guy in Diablo 2.  I don't know, there just aren't that many action rpgs -- in my opinion the best one until now was Diablo 2, and this game is better than it in pretty much all the fundamental ways -- level design, class design, enemy design, pacing, basic mechanics.  It's the added and removed features that people can reasonably disagree about (offline play, the auction house.)  

I can see why people would be angry at Blizzard or dislike Diablo 3, but I don't think saying this is the best game in its genre ever made should be particularly controversial.  

[Ironwood]

 There's nothing in this game as unbalanced and unfair as a lightning enchanted guy in Diablo 2.  

Wut ?

[Ingmar]

I don't know if I agree with that completely but LE guys on higher difficulties in D2 were pretty awful.

[MuffinMan]

The first time I ran across it in D3 I grimaced, thinking I was going to die. They really toned it down.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Psycho.

[Malakili]

 There's nothing in this game as unbalanced and unfair as a lightning enchanted guy in Diablo 2.  

Wut ?

Maybe not LE, but MSLE = dead as shit, every bit as bad as anything in D3.

[Soulflame]

LE wasn't really a problem on my sorc.  There's fairly wide spots where the bolts don't path through.  I can see it being instantly lethal on melee though.

[Ironwood]

As I remember it, LE was fairly lethal, mostly due to the fact that you couldn't see the bolts.

But at least they weren't vampiric, jailer, walling, arcane, LE's.  I mean, seriously ?  Why are we even arguing the toss on this one ?

[Rokal]

I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.  Look how much praise Torchlight got, and that game (while pretty good) is not even in the same class in pretty much any department!  I agree with many of the criticisms in this thread, but if anything, I think people are attacking the game more than it deserves because their expectations from Blizzard are sky-high.

I wouldn't consider myself a big fan of Diablo 3, but I still agree with this. We'd be able to more easily overlook flaws in the game if our expectations had been lower.

You can't overlook that it's made by Blizzard though. Server stability, balance, itemization, barebones campaign: they should have known better.