Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 06, 2019, 12:53:32 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
Donate! | Shop: Amazon
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Diablo 3  |  Topic: Why stack magic find? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Why stack magic find?  (Read 13966 times)
K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7441


on: May 17, 2012, 06:14:51 PM

After reading Schild mention that he was over 100% magic find, I was wondering what the point was?

I can understand why it was the bomb in D2, but here the logic behind it seems off, but perhaps I am not getting the point. As I see it, in D2 you wanted a ton of magic find because you relied on finding items to gear yourself up. However, in D3, with the AH, most blues are just exotic vendor trash and you want gold to buy gear from other players. However, gold isn't exactly scant now, and it doesn't seem like chasing an extra 1% chance to drop is worth it?

I guess I would rather focus on building a character that kills fast, since I don't feel like I'm not seeing enough exciting loot. Perhaps this will change at endgame, but for now I'm pretty comfortable. Then again, I may be misuderstanding the advantages of Magic Find.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #1 on: May 17, 2012, 06:17:48 PM

Assuming it works like D2, one important thing about it that isn't evident at first glance is it makes the items that always drop as magical (rings, necklaces) more likely to be rare/unique.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7441


Reply #2 on: May 17, 2012, 06:19:06 PM

Interesting, I didn't know that.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #3 on: May 17, 2012, 06:20:12 PM

Also I should add this (in D2) also applies to boss drops that are guaranteed to be magic+.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Cheddar
I like pink
Posts: 4981

Noob Sauce


Reply #4 on: May 17, 2012, 06:20:47 PM

I have noticed a huge spike in Yellows now that I re-did my magic find gear.

Also- you make a shitton more cash this way.  Blues at lower 20's sell for 100-200G.  This adds up quick when I am making 3 town runs to your 1.

I know, money is easy to make- but I also have a fully kitted blacksmith and almost fully kitted jeweller @ level 22.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?


edit.  As an example- got 4 yellows on my solo run through a dungeon with zero bosses (just the blue/yellow dudes that randomly spawn).  Got 1 yellow from a landscape destruction thingy.

No Nerf, but I put a link to this very thread and I said that you all can guarantee for my purity. I even mentioned your case, and see if they can take a look at your lawn from a Michigan perspective.
K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7441


Reply #5 on: May 17, 2012, 06:27:06 PM

Not to rain on your parade, but if my understanding of how magic find works is correct (and it may be not) it seems unlikely that you have seen enough kills to notice the difference any increase in magic find can offer. 100% magic find means doubling the mob chance to drop a magic item, so a 1% chance becomes 2% etc. Is this right?

Also I had my blacksmith and jeweler maxed out around the same time. I have some +magic find and +gold find gear, but I don't pick gear that has it, I just appreciate it when it comes. The benefit from selling blues seems marginal too, especially since mobs in Act I of nightmare are already routinely dropping 200+ gold each. I'm not saying that having a supplemental income selling blues would be a bad thing, but I just wonder whether it balances out the slower speed and more deaths that comes from having (nominally) less-optimal gear.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Cheddar
I like pink
Posts: 4981

Noob Sauce


Reply #6 on: May 17, 2012, 06:49:49 PM

Not to rain on your parade, but if my understanding of how magic find works is correct (and it may be not) it seems unlikely that you have seen enough kills to notice the difference any increase in magic find can offer. 100% magic find means doubling the mob chance to drop a magic item, so a 1% chance becomes 2% etc. Is this right?

Also I had my blacksmith and jeweler maxed out around the same time. I have some +magic find and +gold find gear, but I don't pick gear that has it, I just appreciate it when it comes. The benefit from selling blues seems marginal too, especially since mobs in Act I of nightmare are already routinely dropping 200+ gold each. I'm not saying that having a supplemental income selling blues would be a bad thing, but I just wonder whether it balances out the slower speed and more deaths that comes from having (nominally) less-optimal gear.

Not all of us have opened nightmare. 

The difference in drops is astounding.  Again, based on my observation, I am needing to dump my bag in town at least 3 times more then peeps I group with. 

Anyone else tried this and noticed a difference?

No Nerf, but I put a link to this very thread and I said that you all can guarantee for my purity. I even mentioned your case, and see if they can take a look at your lawn from a Michigan perspective.
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #7 on: May 17, 2012, 06:50:00 PM

Even 2% would definitely be noticeable over the long haul. You kill thousands of monsters.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 58737


WWW
Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 07:14:19 PM

It is a noticeable difference. I'm getting more gear now on solo runs than I was in a 3 man group yesterday.
Threash
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8359


Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 10:42:33 PM

I don't think he's saying it doesn't make a difference, he's saying going for killing power and just buying the gear on the AH might be more optimal.

I am the .00000001428%
Teleku
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10146

https://i.imgur.com/mcj5kz7.png


Reply #10 on: May 17, 2012, 10:59:51 PM

Also, the game is just more fun when you see random magical shit dropping all the time.  Does't matter if 99% of it is worthless to you.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Ginaz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3534


Reply #11 on: May 17, 2012, 11:28:10 PM

I've noticed I've gotten a shit load more blues and yellows once I started to stack it.  Even got my first legendary tonight, a pair of lvl 9 pants that looks like it would be best for a monk with the +dex on it.
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6710

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #12 on: May 18, 2012, 03:01:09 AM

I'm intrigued to hear what you have to say about gold find once you've investigated a big Schild.

I spent ~30k on gearing up my lvl 27 wizard yesterday and then grouped with Calapine for a couple of hours, over the course of which I made 55k, mostly from selling the blues I picked up. Next time I log on I'll do an hour and record what proportion of cash comes from selling blues and what from cash drops.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7441


Reply #13 on: May 18, 2012, 07:23:31 AM

So I have tried out gold find to see what happened, here is a small sample of results:

All this is done on the last part of ActI Nightmare, up to the death of the Butcher.

Run 1:

40 minutes
30,187 Gold in drops
28 Blues (4177 Gold)
2 Rares
1 Gem
5 Pages of Crafting

Run 2:

20 Minutes
12,761 Gold in drops
12 Blues (1670 Gold)
0 Rares
1 Gem
3 Pages of Crafting.

This was with 90% Gold Find and 0% Magic Find.

Based on what I have seen here (caveat, very small sample size) it seems like gold find should beat out magic find for gold farming. The variable that is hard to factor is the value of the rares. If they sell on the AH then that could mean that the net gold from items is higher. If the don't sell, it's lower. Note, I didn't actually find any upgrades here, and given that you can only list a maximum of 10 items on the AH at a time, it seems like the revenue from items may be more unpredictable and variable than income from gold.

YMMV

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10591


Reply #14 on: May 18, 2012, 08:30:46 AM

So I have tried out gold find to see what happened, here is a small sample of results:

All this is done on the last part of ActI Nightmare, up to the death of the Butcher.

Run 1:

40 minutes
30,187 Gold in drops
28 Blues (4177 Gold)
2 Rares
1 Gem
5 Pages of Crafting

Run 2:

20 Minutes
12,761 Gold in drops
12 Blues (1670 Gold)
0 Rares
1 Gem
3 Pages of Crafting.

This was with 90% Gold Find and 0% Magic Find.

Based on what I have seen here (caveat, very small sample size) it seems like gold find should beat out magic find for gold farming. The variable that is hard to factor is the value of the rares. If they sell on the AH then that could mean that the net gold from items is higher. If the don't sell, it's lower. Note, I didn't actually find any upgrades here, and given that you can only list a maximum of 10 items on the AH at a time, it seems like the revenue from items may be more unpredictable and variable than income from gold.

YMMV

What is the market like for shimmering essences?  Are nightmare magic items work more than normal based on essence quality?  I haven't really delved into much of this stuff yet because I am of the opinion that until we see how it all functions at level 60 it is basically irrelevant.  Getting 50% more gold at level ~35 seems less important to me than stacking the absolute best gear you can find and blasting through to level 60 ASAP.
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590


Reply #15 on: May 18, 2012, 09:06:05 AM

All I can say is that stacking magic find on four player nightmare tends to make you explode on contact with monsters.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #16 on: May 18, 2012, 09:14:30 AM

I really wish they had stuck to their original idea of either removing MF completely, or only having it present on one item such as the leg slot. It always frustrated me that I could farm all this ace gear but as it didn't have MF on it it went into the bank or was for alts only.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 58737


WWW
Reply #17 on: May 18, 2012, 09:20:14 AM

I really wish they had stuck to their original idea of either removing MF completely, or only having it present on one item such as the leg slot. It always frustrated me that I could farm all this ace gear but as it didn't have MF on it it went into the bank or was for alts only.
Magic Find in this game has thus far - on normal - not been at the detriment to other equipment. You can do searches for Max Magic Find in the market place for your level along with your key attribute and Armor Rating at pretty high values.

Me thinks they're just throwing the stat around too much.

I can't vouch for nightmare mode yet, but I imagine it's entirely possible to still stack Magic Find gear, it'll just be harder to absolutely maximize it.
K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7441


Reply #18 on: May 18, 2012, 09:28:35 AM

Another couple of gold find samples from the beginning of ActII Nightmare (up to Magdha)

Level 38-40 102% Gold Find, 0% Magic Find

Run 3:

40 Minutes
25112 Gold in drops
27 Blues (4114 Gold)
2 Rares
9 Gems
9 Pages of Crafting

Run 4:

30 Minutes
14087 Gold in drops
15 Blues (2320 Gold)
2 Rares
2 Gems
6 Pages

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7441


Reply #19 on: May 18, 2012, 09:34:02 AM

I really wish they had stuck to their original idea of either removing MF completely, or only having it present on one item such as the leg slot. It always frustrated me that I could farm all this ace gear but as it didn't have MF on it it went into the bank or was for alts only.
Magic Find in this game has thus far - on normal - not been at the detriment to other equipment. You can do searches for Max Magic Find in the market place for your level along with your key attribute and Armor Rating at pretty high values.

Me thinks they're just throwing the stat around too much.

I can't vouch for nightmare mode yet, but I imagine it's entirely possible to still stack Magic Find gear, it'll just be harder to absolutely maximize it.

My experience so far is that you will be more fragile, as getting gear with your core DPS stat AND magic/gold find AND vitality is pretty hard. However it's not making enough of a difference (since switching from non-find gear, to gold find gear) that I feel I die overly often. Most of my deaths are in situations which I have survived plenty of times, but I have just been sloppy (didn't move) or unlucky (jail +mortar trololololol). This may become trickier at later stages.

Also, based on the numbers I'm getting, Gold Find seems more consistent, and Magic Find will only match it for revenue IF you can make your money on the AH. If you can't then gold find seems a bit better.

What is the market like for shimmering essences?  Are nightmare magic items work more than normal based on essence quality?  I haven't really delved into much of this stuff yet because I am of the opinion that until we see how it all functions at level 60 it is basically irrelevant.  Getting 50% more gold at level ~35 seems less important to me than stacking the absolute best gear you can find and blasting through to level 60 ASAP.

I'm not sure what the market is for crafting mats. I do know that more gold helps you get better gear (off the AH) since relying solely on what you loot or craft seems sub-optimal. I think you should be able to run 100% gold.magic find through nightmare without compromising too much. Perhaps by act IV I'll want a bit more vitality, but we'll have to see.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9567


Reply #20 on: May 18, 2012, 10:06:01 AM

I got my magic find up to 70% or so, I can't find good pants/chest on the AH with my primary stat at my level.

Blues are raining from the sky son!  Getting yellows more often too.
Slayerik
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4868

Victim: Sirius Maximus


Reply #21 on: May 18, 2012, 10:13:05 AM

I'm glad you are testing the gold find. I was getting close to buying stuff to do the same. Keep us posted!

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590


Reply #22 on: May 18, 2012, 10:33:02 AM

Gold find DOES work, it works great but I am also getting routinely destroyed in nightmare mode on my barbarian when I stack it.  I think the only way it'll work for an up front fighter is to stack magic find in addition to vitality and defensive stuff to just tank it. 

No way to get decent offense/defense and find in the same items and if you're melee, you just cant sacrifice defense.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Threash
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8359


Reply #23 on: May 18, 2012, 11:30:52 AM

Even though the stat works i still see no good reason to stack either gold or magic find, as neither is really needed to make enough gold to buy whatever ideal equipment you want and just kick more ass.  Edit: before endgame that is.

I am the .00000001428%
Cheddar
I like pink
Posts: 4981

Noob Sauce


Reply #24 on: May 18, 2012, 11:44:10 AM

Even though the stat works i still see no good reason to stack either gold or magic find, as neither is really needed to make enough gold to buy whatever ideal equipment you want and just kick more ass.  Edit: before endgame that is.

Sorry, I cannot hear you over all these purples and yellows falling from the sky!

No Nerf, but I put a link to this very thread and I said that you all can guarantee for my purity. I even mentioned your case, and see if they can take a look at your lawn from a Michigan perspective.
Amaron
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2020


Reply #25 on: May 18, 2012, 12:19:30 PM

The difference in drops is astounding.  Again, based on my observation, I am needing to dump my bag in town at least 3 times more then peeps I group with. 

Magic find is averaged based on everyone in the party.  Bluepost: http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/218401-follower-gold-magic-find-equipment/

My observation is it's a pretty iffy stat from 30~59.9999.   The turnover rate on gear is atrocious.   The gear feels extremely normalized with level reqs.   Anything really good is outdone 3 levels later by a cheap blue from the AH.
Dren
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2419


Reply #26 on: May 18, 2012, 12:33:00 PM

All I have to add is that normal drop rate can't be 1% or something similar.  I have nearly no MF and I am getting way more than 1% drop rates on magic items.  My complete guess is at solo I'm getting like 30%.  I know this because I had been picking up everything and going to town when full.  1/3 of my pack would have magic items.

I've since stopped picking up greys and whites just because they sell for absolutely nothing worth carrying them around. 

My point is that if you can stack even a modest level of MF, it wouldn't probably be a bad thing.  Even at 50%, that could go to nearly 50% chance of a find.  *shrug*
WayAbvPar
Moderator
Posts: 19169


Reply #27 on: May 18, 2012, 12:38:02 PM

Quote
Magic find is averaged based on everyone in the party.

So what you are telling me is I need to drop in to schild's game and follow him around?

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7441


Reply #28 on: May 18, 2012, 08:50:31 PM

All I have to add is that normal drop rate can't be 1% or something similar.  I have nearly no MF and I am getting way more than 1% drop rates on magic items.  My complete guess is at solo I'm getting like 30%.  I know this because I had been picking up everything and going to town when full.  1/3 of my pack would have magic items.

I've since stopped picking up greys and whites just because they sell for absolutely nothing worth carrying them around. 

My point is that if you can stack even a modest level of MF, it wouldn't probably be a bad thing.  Even at 50%, that could go to nearly 50% chance of a find.  *shrug*


The 1% is the chance of a mob to drop a magic item, not any item.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Furiously
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7198


WWW
Reply #29 on: May 18, 2012, 08:52:45 PM

Think I'm running at like 103% I'm not sure it wouldn't be better spent on gold find and not bothering until higher levels.

Arinon
Terracotta Army
Posts: 311


Reply #30 on: May 18, 2012, 10:32:26 PM

My observation is it's a pretty iffy stat from 30~59.9999.   The turnover rate on gear is atrocious.   The gear feels extremely normalized with level reqs.   Anything really good is outdone 3 levels later by a cheap blue from the AH.

I agree completely.

In Nightmare, and especially Hell, if you try to stack magic find you end up tanking your offense and/or health to the point that champ packs turn into a real pain.  Further ahead to group up or just progress your character normally.

At 60, or if you want to farm stuff much lower level for whatever reason then I could see it being worthwhile.


Phred
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2025


Reply #31 on: May 19, 2012, 03:17:10 AM

The difference in drops is astounding.  Again, based on my observation, I am needing to dump my bag in town at least 3 times more then peeps I group with. 

Magic find is averaged based on everyone in the party.  Bluepost: http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/218401-follower-gold-magic-find-equipment/

My observation is it's a pretty iffy stat from 30~59.9999.   The turnover rate on gear is atrocious.   The gear feels extremely normalized with level reqs.   Anything really good is outdone 3 levels later by a cheap blue from the AH.

They may claim that it is but my experience is it isn't. I grouped with a guy with 50% mf tonight on one of my chars I haven't shopped for yet that had 5% mf and my friend was getting yellows while I didnt see one. We were chatting on steam while playing and it was definately unbalanced unless I was on a huge losing streak.

Phred
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2025


Reply #32 on: May 19, 2012, 03:19:34 AM

Think I'm running at like 103% I'm not sure it wouldn't be better spent on gold find and not bothering until higher levels.

Except what's the point of playing other than seeing that yellow and brown text pop up occasionally.
Furiously
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7198


WWW
Reply #33 on: May 19, 2012, 04:05:30 AM

Think I'm running at like 103% I'm not sure it wouldn't be better spent on gold find and not bothering until higher levels.

Except what's the point of playing other than seeing that yellow and brown text pop up occasionally.

To get the level 60 ones?

Phred
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2025


Reply #34 on: May 19, 2012, 04:23:45 AM

Oh so you have to get to max level to have fun? Where have I heard that before?
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Diablo 3  |  Topic: Why stack magic find?  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC