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Author Topic: From Mount Arreat, with love (Barbarian Thread)  (Read 13274 times)
01101010
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on: May 17, 2012, 07:51:33 AM

The circle is now complete. I am dabbling in barb but dual wielding sickles looks and feels disgustingly satisfying.

So dual wield or sword and board? 2h seems gimped at the moment, IMHO.

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Reply #1 on: May 17, 2012, 07:56:32 AM

I'm going shield for now. 2H is really gimped for some reason atm, but maybe it improves at higher levels. With frenzy it was better, but not great.

I do love the stomp.

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Thrawn
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Reply #2 on: May 17, 2012, 08:04:09 AM

I'm hit 23 last night and I've never seen a reason to do anything but 1h and shield yet.  I have yet to find a 2h weapon that does significantly more damage then the best 1h weapons I find with a good shield.  Once I started finding good +str shields with sockets I do MORE damage with my best blue 1h then any yellow 2h I've found so far.  But I guess the gap between 1h and 2h weapons gets larger later on.  I think dual wield just works out to your two weapons averaged +15% attack speed or so.  So a really minimal gain for giving up a shield and if your off hand is worse then your main it can gimp special attacks.

I'm really, really enjoying barbarian though.  Find the biggest group in the room, jump into the middle and splatter gore everywhere.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 08:05:43 AM by Thrawn »

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Reply #3 on: May 17, 2012, 08:05:56 AM

I'm going shield for now. 2H is really gimped for some reason atm, but maybe it improves at higher levels. With frenzy it was better, but not great.

I do love the stomp.

Not sure wtf is up with the 2h stuff. The DPS on those seem about the same as 1h but at the cost of both weapon slots. I got two sickles off SK for some reason so I used both of them, one poison and one fire and I pretty much wreck shit. However, with shields looking much better in the later levels, I may store one of those sickles and strap on a shield... frankly, I haven't been in danger of dying so I dunno what difference a shield will make - until I start moving into my late teens.

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Musashi
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Reply #4 on: May 17, 2012, 08:25:35 AM

I'm 30 something, and I dual-wielded/life leached the shit out of everything on normal.  Only things that gave me problems were 'plagued' and the one with the fire trails.  But you know.  I stood in the fire.  Nightmare, ho.

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Reply #5 on: May 17, 2012, 08:31:32 AM

Do shields count as weapon or other when gems are concerned?

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Reply #6 on: May 17, 2012, 08:56:05 AM

2h just LOOKS so goddamned cool though! Started a barb last night with a buddy who just installed, and we ran up to the Fields of Misery. Got a yellow sickle drop off the SK, but it was barely better that what I already had, then got a nasty flamberge from my blacksmith, so I had to switch to that for a bit. I completely forgot about dual wielding though... that is the next experiment!

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Reply #7 on: May 17, 2012, 08:58:04 AM

I'm hit 23 last night and I've never seen a reason to do anything but 1h and shield yet.  I have yet to find a 2h weapon that does significantly more damage then the best 1h weapons I find with a good shield.  Once I started finding good +str shields with sockets I do MORE damage with my best blue 1h then any yellow 2h I've found so far.  But I guess the gap between 1h and 2h weapons gets larger later on.  I think dual wield just works out to your two weapons averaged +15% attack speed or so.  So a really minimal gain for giving up a shield and if your off hand is worse then your main it can gimp special attacks.

I'm really, really enjoying barbarian though.  Find the biggest group in the room, jump into the middle and splatter gore everywhere.

Yeah, I'm 22, 1H+Shield, about 450 DPS, (please please socket big red gems into your weapon: by far biggest DPS increase for the money)

Current skill set is a bit for AOE farm times:

Cleave (rupture)  for instagibs
Hammer of the Ancients (+dmg, - radius)
Leap (+armor)
Ground Stomp (+vortex)
Revenge (+extra heal)
Furious Charge

Leap, Groundstomp for the suck in, then revenge or cleaving will just wipe entire groups in instants. When I run into rares, I just dump all my fury into Hammer, which blows them up quick.

Furious Charge isn't really there for any good reason, other than the extra "move quick" spell is kind of more handy than it seems, and makes getting around faster.
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Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 09:04:33 AM

Whether it's optimal or not, dual wielding scythes is badass.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 09:24:59 AM by murdoc »

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Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 09:17:18 AM

Do shields count as weapon or other when gems are concerned?

Other.

Cleave (rupture)  for instagibs
Hammer of the Ancients (+dmg, - radius)
Leap (+armor)
Ground Stomp (+vortex)
Revenge (+extra heal)
Furious Charge

Same except for rend with heal instead of hammer and I switched over to the +fury on cleave last night.  Starting running the passive that is +25% damage with full fury and really noticing it.  Tried whirlwind for a while and was very unimpressed, but I can see it being better with a good 2 hand and some rune options.  For now it felt like my cleave was just better and didn't use fury.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 09:22:39 AM by Thrawn »

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Reply #10 on: May 17, 2012, 09:29:36 AM

My ideal build is heavy lifesteal and NON fury using. 

Primary attacks being: frenzy/revenge/overpower, maybe having ignore pain/ground stomp for defensives, up in the air for last choice.
Passives would be extra damage at full fury, lifesteal and maybe brawler or nerves of steel for survivability.

At level 27 I'm noticing my two hander is not doing bad at all but maybe it's because I haven't found any one handers close to the same dps.

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Reply #11 on: May 17, 2012, 09:46:28 AM


Same except for rend with heal instead of hammer and I switched over to the +fury on cleave last night.  Starting running the passive that is +25% damage with full fury and really noticing it.  Tried whirlwind for a while and was very unimpressed, but I can see it being better with a good 2 hand and some rune options.  For now it felt like my cleave was just better and didn't use fury.

Yeah, whirlwind is just  ACK!. I guess it's what you're forced to use if you're not cleaving or rending.

I've tried rend, but haven't gotten the hang of it, although I see how it's useful if you're doing a Berserker Fury build, it's kind of a nice cheap way to add some extra damage. But I've always found it useful with to Hammer (Smash) to just jump in and melt a boss-type.
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Reply #12 on: May 17, 2012, 09:50:16 AM

I've tried rend, but haven't gotten the hang of it, although I see how it's useful if you're doing a Berserker Fury build, it's kind of a nice cheap way to add some extra damage. But I've always found it useful with to Hammer (Smash) to just jump in and melt a boss-type.

This is one of my few gripes with the game right now, but no idea how it scales to later levels.

I have my built setup for jumping into huge groups, fighting huge groups and inflicting aoe damage.  So at boss fights I feel like I need to change all of my skills for that one fight and then change them all back after since I want high single target output vs a boss.

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Reply #13 on: May 17, 2012, 10:38:34 AM

I see my two-hander ability damage pulling way ahead in act three. I'm not sure if they get a bonus or what but things like revenge hit like a truck using two handers, will try whirlwinding later.

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Reply #14 on: May 17, 2012, 10:50:05 AM

There is something wrong with the on item dps shown for 2h, you will do a shitton more damage once you equip it your damage rating will go up even with a 30 dps 2h versus two 30 dps 1h's. I can't tell you why because I haven't stopped to try to piece it out yet.

For barb I haven't been able to get away from leap and stomp, stomp is just too powerful and its your oh shit button or your free kill everything button in a lot of situations. You must have leap. In fact you must have it and keep track of its cooldown. You cannot engage many types of boss packs without leap off cooldown. Being able to give yourself +300% armor for many of the Quest bosses is icing.

So with leap, stomp and a basic attack we're left with 3 open slots. I've been using spear, stagger slam and revenge. I'm looking to replace revenge.

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Reply #15 on: May 17, 2012, 10:55:15 AM

What's the spear for? I tried it out early and didn't really see the point.
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Reply #16 on: May 17, 2012, 11:01:54 AM

You need two ranged attacks mainly.

Spear also breaks down double boss packs with nasty abilities even if you are in a group with ranged -wall or vortex plus a big damage boss type has gotten a pair of WD's in games I've been in. It deals with a ton of annoying mob types (ranged goats, bees that shoot bees, suicide bombers, anything weak that runs).

The single target spear is a big fury boost (instantly gives you the fury to stagger slam) and that combo can be nice.

Spear isn't amazing in terms of effect but it has really good utility and it feels amazing to use if you liked Pudge/Blitzcrank/Scorpion as much as I do.

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Reply #17 on: May 18, 2012, 10:31:18 AM

I gotta admit, I swapped out the dual sickles for some yellow limbless tree with spikes and now I run around one-shotting the simple mobs. Got three yellows off the Butcher for some reason - but the tree was the only thing I could use.

I really wonder about the dps numbers on 2h stuff. They do not seem that far above 1h stuff, but using them is a completely different story.

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Reply #18 on: May 18, 2012, 10:40:24 AM

I've been having fun stomping into packs with a shield and dagger, and then going STABSTABSTABSTABSTAB

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Reply #19 on: May 18, 2012, 10:54:50 AM

Spear isn't amazing in terms of effect but it has really good utility and it feels amazing to use if you liked Pudge/Blitzcrank/Scorpion as much as I do.

One of the most important reasons I've started use spear, it works on the greed goblin guys where most other stuns apparently don't.

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Reply #20 on: May 18, 2012, 08:58:56 PM

I have a 2h build going. Taking into hardcore nightmare soon. L34.

Frenzy w/ life regain on death = LMB. All the frenzy runes are potentially good but 2h because of the longer time between swings and the longer time to get rolling during the start of fighting each pack needs max healing. I find myself losing 20% life much more regularly than I ever did using my dw cleave or 1h + shield bash/cleave builds.

Overpower w/ not sure yet = RMB. This is usable every pack basically (15sec CD) either at the start to make up for not having frenzy/fury engine going or as a finisher or as an oh shit depending on the pack composition.

Furious Charge w/ Merciless Assault = Q/1. So this is my bnb skill on this build. Against a big pack I can sometimes charge 3 times back to back doing hilarious aoe damage. Its very dangerous to do this though against anything but the weakest packs. Mainly I use it for positioning utility and sometimes aoe finishing damage.

Leap w/ Iron = W/2. I can't get away from it. Its huge in boss fights (avoid attack into big armor buff) and I don't know how to survive against a lot of mob types without it. I don't think I'll ever drop leap.

Revenge w/ not sure yet = E/3. This is just for the healing. Basically with a 2h'er I spam it every time its up because it does insane damage. Also I can charge into Revenge and its basically going to one shot most things if I do it right.

R/4 undecided. There are a lot of ways to go with this.


Thoughts so far:
This build wants to go crit, it might be so strong w/ a crit plan. But for now I'm not doing that because already I feel like I'm taking a huge risk running it. I get hit a lot more with it. Mainly I'm much much weaker for much much longer while getting to max fury and getting max frenzy. Once I hit those things the build is very strong.

The build feels like it requires a lot of micro. Instead of only using most abilities as "oh shit!" and only using mouse for almost all of the fight I'm constantly hitting keys. There are a lot of abilities and a lot of decision trees on when/where/how to combo them. That and the slow start are both big weaknesses and I'm worried its going to get me killed. I would totally suggest it for anyone playing in normal if you want to try some 2h out.

If people want to know and I don't get myself killed I'll post more when I finish Act1 NM.

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Reply #21 on: May 19, 2012, 03:30:31 AM

I love 2H

I'm curious about stacking +weapon speed and seeing how that goes. derr
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 03:36:28 AM by ShenMolo »
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Reply #22 on: May 20, 2012, 05:01:00 PM

How is that build going Hoax? Died yet =p? Also, you didn't list which Passives you were running, so I'm curious as to that.

I'm just into Act3 SC, and the following layout for a two-hander Barb work really well for both single and four-player games. I can tank three/four screens worth of mobs in four-player (only up to Act 3 at the moment though), and am very much capable of herding large quantities like that together and blowing them all up very quickly.

1 is keyed to Stomp /w the vortex thing that sucks people into you.

2 is Leap with Iron Skin.

3 is Revenge specced to heal 'more' iirc. Great skill to spam, huge damage, great heal, etc...

4 is keyed to the Furious Shout or whatever the one is that increases damage dealt, runed for the 30% increase.

LMB is Cleave with the explode on death rune.

RMB is currently Whirlwind, although I'm beginning to suspect that Rend may be more efficient, because it looks to do more damage per Fury cost. The problem with Whirlwind (which I find is otherwise really good, because of the ability to reposition and not get cornered) is that this particular build has a bit of trouble generating Fury quickly.

Passives are Nerves and Inspiring Presence.

Overall strategy is to find large enough groups, Leap in and Stomp to pull as many as possible. Cleave away for a couple of swings to build some Fury, Whirlwinding/Rending as needed, then follow up with any Revenge which may have procced and into Cleave again to start the chain-reaction.

Sustain comes from Nerves (with ~2000 hp I end up with a fair amount of Armour) and Presence allowing for the war-cry to heal 1% of max hp over time.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 05:03:16 PM by Megrim »

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Reply #23 on: May 20, 2012, 05:06:28 PM

I swear to god I can't seem to quick this class.

I been using for swarms:

1. Leap w/iron skin
2. Stomp w/ wrenching
3. Threatening Shout w/ intimidate

then RMB Whirlwind w/ dust devils and LMB Cleave w/ reaping

And when I MUST have everything dead, 4. Earthquake /w giant's stride right before Whirlwinding around.

Fuck that is gratifying.

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Reply #24 on: May 20, 2012, 05:11:38 PM

Earthquake is aaarjhgahghaghaghrgargahraljsrjhagarl

Pity it takes so much time to recharge.

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Reply #25 on: May 21, 2012, 06:31:19 AM

Just dropping this here but wrath of the berserker makes you entirely immune to CC for the duration.  Even though it's not in the tooltip, I just pop it and stand on frost bombs all day long.

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Reply #26 on: May 21, 2012, 06:38:42 AM

I like using Cleave (Reap), Hammer (Devil's Anvil) as my main attacks.

Ground Stomp (Wrench), Revenge (Vengeance), Threatening Shout (Falter), and Earthquake (Giant) fill out the rest.

I wander into large packs. Throw on the stunning ground stomp, then the shout, cleave cleave cleave, Earthquake. WIN!

Basically my entire play time revolves around sucking groups in, and popping revenge for max healts when it's procced if Quake is on CD, then hammering my fury away on anything close.

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Reply #27 on: May 21, 2012, 07:16:29 AM

How is that build going Hoax? Died yet =p? Also, you didn't list which Passives you were running, so I'm curious as to that.

It didn't kill me but it wasn't working. However I am convinced that Barb can farm maybe faster than anyone if you were doing pure gold farming. The furious charge repeatable rune lets you basically demolish camps in seconds and if you had gold drop + gold pick up gear you would basically get all the monies in the process in theory. I'm going to look at that at some point.

Here's the thing about the build before. Going for the max fury = +25% damage is stupid when you can run the shout that gives you plus 30% damage w/ rune. Once I noticed that it was time to rethink.

I'm currently working on gear (I'm 2-3k hp short of what I need) before I start challenging myself again on the Barb and I'm going with 2h axe crit build. I've had to give up Charge and I miss it and I'm not sure its worth giving it up. The more I work on this though the more convinced I am that shield + 1h is easier to work with.

My crit engine is Overpower, Battle Rage and Revenge with the obvious runes. The big yellow numbers are cool  but I need more tank, lots more tank. I may try to gear to 9k hp before I go for a Act2 complete NM run.

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Reply #28 on: May 21, 2012, 08:01:12 AM



RMB is currently Whirlwind, although I'm beginning to suspect that Rend may be more efficient, because it looks to do more damage per Fury cost. The problem with Whirlwind (which I find is otherwise really good, because of the ability to reposition and not get cornered) is that this particular build has a bit of trouble generating Fury quickly.


Have you tried runeing cleave for the extra fury per target hit?
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Reply #29 on: May 21, 2012, 08:08:12 AM

Pound of flesh seemed so worthless but in late nightmare/early hell it is invaluable as a passive.

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Reply #30 on: May 21, 2012, 03:16:30 PM

So my friends and gf finally nagged me into getting this, and barb is the only class I'd play. I've glanced over this thread and it seems two one handers are the way to go over a two-hander. Any other tips on how to race this guy through the first difficulty setting to get up to their mains?

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Reply #31 on: May 21, 2012, 03:17:53 PM

Two one handers? Where do you get that? I got the impression that most people went sword and board.
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Reply #32 on: May 21, 2012, 03:45:04 PM

The fastest way is twink weapon(s) with red gems and pretty much 2.5 sets of armor for levels 1-30 and the first difficulty.

What you'll need:
-1 really high level red gem, preferably two since you might as well start out going dual wield during the first 2 acts.
-Level 0, level 5, level 10/11, level 15/17, level 2X weapon(s). From level 15 onwards they must be socketed though if you get socketed at 10 its an even bigger joke. Nothing matters but socket and highest dps number.
-The armor sets. You should be wearing a full set of twink by level15 or so. The second set and maybe some choice great pieces should come into play around the level 22 to 28 mark depending on how low level/armor the first set of stuff you picked out is. You can hold off on buying the second set until you get there and then just hitting the ah for best available. What the armor needs to have:
-helm should have a socket if you don't skip out on the high level topaz (more later). Also str.
-every other major piece should have vit/str and anything else you can get on it without paying too much on the ah.
-the rings and amulet should have +damage in fact the more sets of these you have starting at 2-4 then 3-5 etc. The better this damage gets added in before anything else it seems and makes a huge difference in your final numbers.
-the boots should have movespeed and vit/str.
-don't forget you can wear mighty belts and in a fit of idiocy despite being able to sort by class usability they are in their own fucking section and wont show up with other belts.
-big fucking topaz, because getting drops is more fun and slotting it into a helm will go a long way to increasing your fun

That should pretty much get you there. If you wanted to be crazy about it you could go for a full L2X set of Vit/Str/Xp per kill but honestly it doesn't take that long to finish normal. I'd say you would have gold left over with 200k and probably you need way less if you are doing a normal character as I imagine the prices are much lower on that ah.

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Reply #33 on: May 21, 2012, 04:37:48 PM

I realize this may be a very specific piece of information that most people won't necessarily care about, but Inferno Act 2 and on, you're gonna be using a one-hander and a shield.

Looking at the gear that exists in the game, it seems incredibly unlikely that you'll ever have quite the perfect set of gear that would allow that to happen.

I, of course, could be wrong, but there are already people farming Act 4 items very cheesily, and the outlook is relatively grim.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

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Reply #34 on: May 21, 2012, 07:39:38 PM



RMB is currently Whirlwind, although I'm beginning to suspect that Rend may be more efficient, because it looks to do more damage per Fury cost. The problem with Whirlwind (which I find is otherwise really good, because of the ability to reposition and not get cornered) is that this particular build has a bit of trouble generating Fury quickly.


Have you tried runeing cleave for the extra fury per target hit?

The Fury comment was more or less directly in relation to Whirlwind upkeep. Otherwise, the build is very low-Fury friendly and cooldown efficient. You are right though, it is a relatively small change to enable better Fury generation; but it would work better in a different build overall, I think.

I've since tried both Rend and Furious Charge instead of Whirlwind, and have so far settled on Charge as the RMB alternative. Rend takes too long to do its damage, whereas Charge give you both the benefit of having another positional skill, and after slotting the to 285% damage increase rune, it becomes an incredible aoe damage dump.




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