Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 12, 2020, 08:23:07 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Diablo 3  |  Topic: OMG LASERS PEW PEW (Wizard Thread) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Go Down Print
Author Topic: OMG LASERS PEW PEW (Wizard Thread)  (Read 27397 times)
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6710

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #70 on: May 23, 2012, 10:58:44 AM

Something has changed with Critical Mass in the hotfix, it just doesn't seem to work any more. It's made my melee wizard completely non-viable, can't survive a single champion pack now.  Heartbreak

I expect changes and nerfs etc, but undocumented ones piss me off greatly.


"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #71 on: May 23, 2012, 12:14:28 PM

There's nothing on the official hotfix post that just went up about this, and I can't see any posts elsewhere talking about critical mass - what exactly has changed for you? Might it have been you were just unlucky on procs for it? (as it's not a guaranteed chance per crit).
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6710

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #72 on: May 23, 2012, 01:00:31 PM

It looks like the proc chance has been reduced, I'm guessing by a lot, like 90% or more. If it was an unlucky streak then it was a statistically miraculous one that spanned several thousand hits.

Basically I used to be able to keep Diamond Skin up nearly 100% of the time and Frost Nova more or less at will as long as I was hitting multiple mobs and had a Venom Hydra up. Now it was as if I just didn't have Critical Mass - I was having to wait the full cooldown duration for both abilities. Makes the build completely useless.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #73 on: May 23, 2012, 01:07:33 PM

I was playing the build last night in Hell Act 1 and was having a great time, but had nowhere near the uptime you describe there. Suspect you had substantially more crit than my paltry 12.5% buffed!
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27447

Badge Whore


Reply #74 on: May 23, 2012, 02:51:11 PM

Yeah but that was last night.  Wasn't the hotfix done today?

If it's like the monk nerf their approach seems to be "Make this useless, we'll patch a real fix later." Which is a ridiculous way to handle things.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #75 on: May 23, 2012, 03:09:25 PM

No, who I'm saying was pre hot fix today I was playing that build and had nowhere near that uptime on my abilities. Was using blizzard + venom hydra and had a total crit of 12.5% and whilst it definitely made a difference it didn't allow for anywhere near full uptime on nova / diamond skin.

Tried it this afternoon and still seems to play the same as it did for me yesterday, but possibly the nerd was in the form of a cap on the number of props per second? Still trying to find something on other forums about a potential nerf.
K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7441


Reply #76 on: May 23, 2012, 05:15:29 PM

12.5% isn't particularly high for crit rate I think. With crit on all your gear you'd have closer to 30% I think?

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #77 on: May 23, 2012, 05:35:57 PM

Oh yes you can get much higher than that easily - I was just playing with the build and found it surprising fun.
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6710

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #78 on: May 24, 2012, 04:10:12 AM

I've got 22.5% crit buffed, 27.5% when I get the Frost Nova 5+ targets hit bonus (which was most of the time before the hotfix).

Did a bunch more testing with it yesterday evening and this morning and something's definitely changed. I have my floating damage set to show crits only and I'm critting way less often than I was before the hotfix. It's certainly not 27.5% of my hits, that's for sure. Unfortunately there's no way I can quantify any of this without a combat log or anything, but I ran through Act 3 & 4 Nightmare just to see and it was significantly harder than before. Azmodan Nightmare is a good test - before I didn't need to make any attempt to dodge the meteors or move out of the defile, my DS uptime was entirely capable of absorbing that damage completely. Today I cannot do that, I have to run from both meteors and defile.

I suspect it's an unintended change since I can see no reason not to include a deliberate change in the hotfix notes.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9706


Reply #79 on: May 24, 2012, 06:50:14 AM

You were using a build to trivialize an entire boss encounter (at the very least) and yet you expect this is a bug and not a stealth nerf?  Ohhhhh, I see.

Check out my podcast: ADD&D, Attention Deficit Dungeons & Dragons!
"I think it's time for a dose of F13 RED PILL MOTHER FUCKERS" ~cosapi
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6710

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #80 on: May 24, 2012, 06:57:17 AM

Completely invalid point IMO.

The boss fights in D3 are all trivial. Changing builds for them is easy to do if you're struggling with one. There are many builds for pretty much all classes that can make one fight or another incredibly easy. I have tried several wizard builds, for instance, that enable risk-free soloing of each and every boss up to the end of Nightmare mode. This isn't Diablo 2, the bosses are useless for gearing up, killing them easily is irrelevant.

The point is that changing mechanics without telling your players is very poor practice, especially in a game with a hardcore mode.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9706


Reply #81 on: May 24, 2012, 06:59:40 AM

It's one thing to make a boss easy. It's another to say "Man I could just stand in all the fire and not dodge anything, why'd Blizz nerf me" with legitimate surprise. Also, Bilizzard has been doing stealth-nerfs for years in WoW; odds are they'll post about it a few days later when people call them out on the forums once the PR people have an official response. Also, lolhardcoremode.

Check out my podcast: ADD&D, Attention Deficit Dungeons & Dragons!
"I think it's time for a dose of F13 RED PILL MOTHER FUCKERS" ~cosapi
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #82 on: May 24, 2012, 07:07:58 AM

I still think (with all respect - apologies apocrypha) that we shouldn't rush to assume it has been nerfed or the was a bug, unless the bug was specifically with your character.

This is not a unique build. Is very popular, and Critical Mass as a passive is also hugely popular. I haven't found anying on any other Diablo thread or forum mentioned a nerf to the proc rate or anything. Let's get some more evidence first?
Azuredream
Terracotta Army
Posts: 910


Reply #83 on: May 24, 2012, 08:46:55 AM

The only change I know of is the one to Force Armor that stopped it from reducing hits that were more than 100% of your health. That one was directed at a wizard build that was letting woefully under-geared people clear inferno when they shouldn't have been able to. If you're not critting as often as your stats would indicate I don't know anything about it, but critical mass doesn't go off on every critical, and as such can have droughts where it doesn't proc regardless of how much you are or aren't critting.

Quote
Wizard

Active Skills

Arcane Torrent
Skill Rune - Cascade
Fixed an issue that was causing Arcane Torrent to fire 3 new missiles per kill instead of only 1 new missile per kill
Number of new missiles generated from this rune will now cap at 10 missiles

Energy Armor
Skill Rune - Force Armor
Amount of damage absorbed from a single attack will now cap at 100% of a player’s maximum Life

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #84 on: May 24, 2012, 11:35:18 AM

Its probable that this *will* get nerfed in the future however judging by some of the videos already out there of mages tanking elite packs in hell and inferno by through chaincasting nova and diamond skin.
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #85 on: May 24, 2012, 01:26:37 PM

In any case trying to just eyeball a change to crit rate isn't going to lead you to any valid conclusions.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Azuredream
Terracotta Army
Posts: 910


Reply #86 on: May 24, 2012, 01:55:45 PM

Its probable that this *will* get nerfed in the future however judging by some of the videos already out there of mages tanking elite packs in hell and inferno by through chaincasting nova and diamond skin.

I don't think it'll be a problem, Diamond Skin only absorbs so much damage eventually the mobs just completely outpace it in terms of damage output.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6710

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #87 on: May 24, 2012, 02:27:22 PM

In any case trying to just eyeball a change to crit rate isn't going to lead you to any valid conclusions.

Indeed, however there's nothing else I can do to verify it at this point. Except qualitative tests on things like Azmodan, but being able to kill a boss easily is considered some kind of exploit by some apparently .  Ohhhhh, I see.

Moot point anyway, I've abandoned the build and gone back to the mundane, cookie-cutter blizzard kiting.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #88 on: May 24, 2012, 03:17:59 PM

I refuse to use that build until inferno, so am sticking with meteor spam. Meteor seems to trigger critical mass quite a bit, and I do love that spell.
Amaron
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2020


Reply #89 on: May 24, 2012, 03:20:10 PM

There was a post of some wizard stunlocking Diablo on inferno with critical mass.   He'd just spam shock pulse and frost nova.  Frost Nova was coming off cooldown so fast you could barely even see the refresh.  If I had to make a guess they probably hotfixed it by putting an internal cooldown on Critical Mass.
K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7441


Reply #90 on: May 24, 2012, 06:02:28 PM


I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
El Gallo
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2213


Reply #91 on: May 24, 2012, 07:06:48 PM

The guy soloing inferno diablo.
http://www.justin.tv/zytrug/b/319194200

Mob dps doesn't really matter when all your cooldowns are permanently at zero.  All that matters is how fast you can click.

Game is fun as hell, wizard is fun as hell.  But how shitty do your testers need to be that nobody thought of this?  Or the much more obvious no vit + force armor + diamondskin synergy.  

Edit: this one does the same thing, and he shows off his stats.  Only has 25% crit, but over 3.1 attacks per sec.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJn6QxRdb-Q
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 07:17:09 PM by El Gallo »

This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
MuffinMan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1788


Reply #92 on: May 24, 2012, 11:19:34 PM

Is everyone using wands and sources or have you branched out into swords and boards? I've been going sword and source for a while, +DMG on the source is too good to give up and it doesn't seem the shield gives me much more survivability when I try it.

I'm very mysterious when I'm inside you.
caladein
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3174


WWW
Reply #93 on: May 24, 2012, 11:51:14 PM

Is everyone using wands and sources or have you branched out into swords and boards? I've been going sword and source for a while, +DMG on the source is too good to give up and it doesn't seem the shield gives me much more survivability when I try it.

Two-handers here.  Maces if I can help it for the slower attack speed.

But how shitty do your testers need to be that nobody thought of this?  Or the much more obvious no vit + force armor + diamondskin synergy.

If you're in Act 3/4 Inferno and not just kiting everything, you are a tester.  Critical Mass and/or Paralysis are probably getting ICDs anyway.

Edit: The other option is to nerf Living Lightning as it interacts in a similar way with a ton of passives, Arcane Dynamo being the other one.  Stack that up, Archon, and right-click keeps the buff as long as you hold it down and don't use any of other other abilities.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:10:03 AM by caladein »

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #94 on: May 25, 2012, 03:27:34 AM

Why are you going for the slower attack sipped by the way? Hasn't most testing shown there to be no difference in dps because the big one hit spells are normalised from the ds value not the weapon value?

And critical mass was hot fixed yesterday, but this was apparently to resolve the issue around magic weapon - venom blade. I fiddled with it briefly and it was clearly not working right because it was triggering critical mass constantly. But that hot fix only went in yesterday afternoon?
caladein
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3174


WWW
Reply #95 on: May 25, 2012, 03:38:31 AM

Why are you going for the slower attack sipped by the way? Hasn't most testing shown there to be no difference in dps because the big one hit spells are normalised from the ds value not the weapon value?

My understanding is that ray spells aren't normalized, and that's what I was using at the end of Hell.  I haven't played my Wizard or done much reading about mechanics since then, so I could be wrong.

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Azuredream
Terracotta Army
Posts: 910


Reply #96 on: May 25, 2012, 07:56:03 AM

Re; the guy stunlocking with Critical Mass/Living Lightning:

Quote
Wizard
Critical Mass (Passive)
Fixed an issue with certain powers that had a higher than intended chance to trigger Critical Mass

They're pretty quick on this. It seems like their intent is to make inferno so crazy that the only way to clear it is with cheeseball specs so that they can root out those builds quickly.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6710

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #97 on: May 25, 2012, 09:25:01 AM

I knew I wasn't imagining it. Problem is that their fixes so far seem to be to just make the skill useless. And not update the tooltips.  Ohhhhh, I see.

I honestly don't see any point at all to Critical Mass now, it's does almost nothing as far as I can tell. I suspect it's not going to be long before we just see a few cookie-cutter builds for each class and all the talk about the flexible skill system being so much ancient history.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Maledict
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1047


Reply #98 on: May 25, 2012, 09:31:18 AM

We're you using venom weapon?

That's the fix that this hotfix addressed, and apparently it only went live yesteryear as people were still streaming videos of it being abused yesterday afternoon.

It certainly works for me with meteor spam oddly enough - had left it only accident and suddenly noticed my frost nova seemed to take 3 seconds to refresh. Didn't think that the multiple crits you get from a meteor hitting would each trigger it independently.
Amaron
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2020


Reply #99 on: May 28, 2012, 05:10:22 PM

Didn't think that the multiple crits you get from a meteor hitting would each trigger it independently.

Each spell probably has it's own %chance to trigger it on a crit.
apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6710

Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #100 on: May 29, 2012, 12:48:41 AM

Nope, was using Force Weapon. This was the build: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#WRXYSO!bgf!YbaYZZ   It's still mostly viable in Nightmare but the cooldown reduction from Critical Mass is irrelevant now, so if you do want to give it a go I'd ditch that and go with Glass Cannon, or maybe Cold Blooded instead, and not bother stacking crit gear, get more vit instead.

I've switched to this now: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#aRXlSO!YTf!cbacbb  which is much less fun, but does at least seem to be allowing me to progress in Hell. Just got to the start of Act 4 but I can't beat the first fight with all the shadow spawn things, will have a think about a build for it today, probably going to need to get Frost Nova back in there and some more AOE, Meteor maybe. I'm still mostly wearing the crit gear that I had for the melee build, but I'm gonna need a lot of gold to be able to buy gear good enough to be worth the upgrade. Gear prices seem to have gone up some since I bought this set, I reckon I need 5-10 million for a set now, and I haven't yet found a way to earn more than about 100k/hour...  Ohhhhh, I see.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Der Helm
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4020


Reply #101 on: May 29, 2012, 05:40:01 AM

For some reason the every single link to a build is not working for me, it just seems to show me the basic selected abilities, not the used runes.

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27447

Badge Whore


Reply #102 on: May 29, 2012, 05:41:43 AM

The board's url code truncates everything after the first "!".  If you take a close look you'll see none of those characters are bold-faced like the rest of the link.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Der Helm
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4020


Reply #103 on: May 29, 2012, 05:49:29 AM

The board's url code truncates everything after the first "!".  If you take a close look you'll see none of those characters are bold-faced like the rest of the link.
swamp poop
Duh!

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 14660

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #104 on: May 29, 2012, 10:45:23 AM

Wizard's early game is torture.  I thought the WD was bad, but this is wretched.  Looks like at 19 that I only have to suffer through a couple more crappy levels before I get some better tools.

-Rasix
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Diablo 3  |  Topic: OMG LASERS PEW PEW (Wizard Thread)  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC