Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread [Spoiler tag free, beware]

[Nayr]

Bear in mind that the Leviathan critters are a post-me, ME3-era addition to the lore. When I was there, the operating theory was that every individual Reaper contained the transapience-uploaded consciousnesses of an entire organic species, and every Reaper would look like the species it originated from - thus the humanoid form of the Reaper at the end of ME2. That got lost on the way

Well, to be fair to the lore, that was EDI telling you that too.   As far as she could extrapolate, that was what she came up with.    Reaper based machines < actual reapers.   At least that's what I've told myself.

The only problem that I had with the endings is that they had been done before in ST:TNG.   ME3 was too EDI heavy and not enough about the actual Reapers.  I personally think that they blew their wad by making the reapers attack Earth at the very start.  But that only leaves them telling you how they created the story.   They took a piece of humanity, and splattered it onto a wall.   Turians?  Think cold war.   Quarians?  Think of Terminator.  Salarians?  Think of science for science's sake.   In other words, they painted themselves into a corner.  

Affect and effect.   Shepard did affect the universe, it just didn't have the same effect that it did on the characters as it did on you.

I dunno, but I would've made Jack a much more standout character in 2 & 3.  Especially 3.  I was so disappointed when she only came in as a non-supportive - fill in the gaps - role.  She was pure emotion.   Something that even Reapers can't deny.

SO in other words, it's a personal preference. Less EDI & More Jack would have fixed it for you mostly.

Fun fact though, you can ignore EDI for the most part in the game.

[Morat20]

Attention all Mass Effect 3 multiplayer players.

Mass Effect 3: Reckoning, the FINAL mulltiplayer expansion, is now now!!!!

Adding new character kits such as the Geth Juggernaut Soldier, The Cabal Vanguard(FEMALE Turian,) the Alliance Infiltration Unit(EDI lookalike,) the Krogan Warlord Sentinel(big hammer,) the Talon Vanguard, and a playable COLLECTOR(Yeah this one has me a little surprised as well.)

And adding new weapons such as the Geth Spitfire(a heavy weapon from ME3 SP,) and the M-7 Lancer(ME1 weapon with the classic overheat mechanic.)

While I still haven't finished the ME3 story (I only got it at Christmas) I can tell you this: Playing the Geth Juggernaut is like taking candy from a comatose baby. It's freaking ridiculous. Admittedly, I'm talking a full defense build but between that, a fully specced out offensive flamethrower of a turret, I rarely need to use my gun. I just heavy melee everything to death.

On maps with range? I just toss a turret out into the middle and snipe until something interrupts me, at which point I force-choke it to death. Playing a quick run through on silver, the only time I died was when I got hammered by three dragoons, a phantom, and an Atlas. And I took the phantom and two dragoons with me, and the Atlas and remaining dragoon didn't last long when the rest of my squad caught up.

[Venkman]

The choices you make affect the community of people surrounding you more than they affect you personally.   Agreed, they might affect you, but nowhere near what they do to the people around you.   That was the entire point of the story, or so I thought.

You've gotta be selfless to be a hero.  And by killing himself/herself is the ultimate act of selflessness.  I mean, call me a ME apologist, but I had almost no problems with the ending.

The game set up that aspect of the ending from the very first game: the selfless hero is what you've played for all of the games, always putting the mission ahead of yourself and, when needed, others. That's not my problem with the ending.

My problem was how that story was told at the end. Without going back too much into what I've already said: every choice you've made in the series is based largely on an action you've also take, a physicality to your decision. All culminating in a multiple choice question at the end?

[Nayr]

The choices you make affect the community of people surrounding you more than they affect you personally.   Agreed, they might affect you, but nowhere near what they do to the people around you.   That was the entire point of the story, or so I thought.

You've gotta be selfless to be a hero.  And by killing himself/herself is the ultimate act of selflessness.  I mean, call me a ME apologist, but I had almost no problems with the ending.

The game set up that aspect of the ending from the very first game: the selfless hero is what you've played for all of the games, always putting the mission ahead of yourself and, when needed, others. That's not my problem with the ending.

My problem was how that story was told at the end. Without going back too much into what I've already said: every choice you've made in the series is based largely on an action you've also take, a physicality to your decision. All culminating in a multiple choice question at the end?

You write under the assumption that Mass Effect 3 was only a single story.

Main plot(Reapers) =/= Subplots(Everything else.)

The final mission and the games conclusion wrap up the main plot. The subplots that have spanned all the way back to the original Mass Effect wrap up DURING ME3. They each have their own ending apart from the game's ending. You just see it earlier.

In ME3, to even get to the final mission and wrap up the main plot, you have to wrap up all the subplots.(Cure or Sabotage the Genophage, Choose a side or make peace between the Quarians and the Geth, and wipe out Cerberus,) and all of those subplots can be wrapped up in numerous ways.

Really, how could any of those choices be taken into account when you dock the Crucible, talk to the Intelligence, and pick a path?

Intelligence: *Explains everything and presents choices*

Shepard: But! I cured the genophage! I made peace between the Geth and Quarians!

Intelligence: How could either of those things affect me?

Shepard: *Dumbstruck* I. . . I don't know.

Intelligence: (. . .Organics. . . they're all idiots. Why are we preserving them, again?)

[Fabricated]

I dunno why I shouldn't be annoyed at having to pick between a bunch of bad endings that aren't particularly influenced by my decisions over 3 entire games because, "nah it was designed that way man, all your decisions were resolved BEFORE the bad endings, see?"

[Nayr]

I dunno why I shouldn't be annoyed at having to pick between a bunch of bad endings that aren't particularly influenced by my decisions over 3 entire games because, "nah it was designed that way man, all your decisions were resolved BEFORE the bad endings, see?"

They did the same thing as in Dragon Age: Origins. The subplots were meant to give the player the forces needed to resolve the main plot. They didn't bring up whether or not you annulled the Circle, Elected Bhelen or Harrowmont, spared the anvil of the void, killed the werewolves/elves or ended the curse WHILE you were fighting your way through Denerim and slaying the Archdemon, now did they?

Whether you like the endings is irrelevant. How could any of the decisions throughout the trilogy affect stopping the Reapers other than giving you more soldiers to fight them with? It was established in as early as Mass Effect 1 that the Reapers are too powerful to be beaten by any conventional means.

Edit:

I wonder how often Stormwaltz looks in this topic. Now would be a good time to ask him what the original plan was(if any) for Shepard to kill the Reapers, or if they were planning the Crucible/Giant weapon from the start.

We know what the original big reveal was going to be, and Drew Karpyshyn told what the original choices were going to be; destroy the Reapers or side with them, but we don't know how we were going to destroy them in the former.

[rk47]

Yeah , it was a well-planned ending, so well planned they needed an improved version of it.

[Nayr]

Yeah , it was a well-planned ending, so well planned they needed an improved version of it.

Extended Cut wasn't necessary IMO.

It was practically forced by disgruntled players who didn't get the ending.

I didn't need the Extended Cut because all the circumstances around the endings I knew through inference. I listened when the Intelligence spoke to Shepard, and I recognized parts of the past games' lore that served as proof of concept for why the choices work.

Control has Shepard uploading his mind into the Citadel's AI core and broadcasting himself to the Reapers to take control of them. = In the Cerberus Network on Mass Effect 2, they broadcast a story about the UNAS President Christopher Huerta who had his mind uploaded into a VI program to resume his duties. Opposition claimed he was legally dead and it wasn't the real him, but a court ruled otherwise.

Synthesis has Shepard sacrificing himself to rewrite the genetics/composition of everything in the galaxy. = Gene mods and therapies are commonplace in Mass Effect's universe. Alliance soldiers receive them to enhance their performance, and Miranda is a living breathing artificially manufactured human. Shepard was brought back from the dead by integrating cybernetics into his body(Miranda's logs say they switched from reconstruction to "bio-synthetic fusion") meaning Shepard is a walking breathing example of synthesis(which the Intelligence even points out.) Synthesis is just the same concept on a larger scale.

Destroy is pretty straightforward. Kill the Reapers, but you destroy all the other AI in the galaxy and damage technology. = I don't see how this could not happen. It's made abundantly clear all the way back in Mass Effect 1 that the Reapers have had their hand in the galaxy's technological development so they could use it themselves. The galaxy's tech and the Reaper's technology are the same except for what it's made of and the fact that Reaper Tech indoctrinates. So anything that hurt the Reapers would hurt any technology.

[Fabricated]

I dunno why I shouldn't be annoyed at having to pick between a bunch of bad endings that aren't particularly influenced by my decisions over 3 entire games because, "nah it was designed that way man, all your decisions were resolved BEFORE the bad endings, see?"

They did the same thing as in Dragon Age: Origins. The subplots were meant to give the player the forces needed to resolve the main plot. They didn't bring up whether or not you annulled the Circle, Elected Bhelen or Harrowmont, spared the anvil of the void, killed the werewolves/elves or ended the curse WHILE you were fighting your way through Denerim and slaying the Archdemon, now did they?

Whether you like the endings is irrelevant. How could any of the decisions throughout the trilogy affect stopping the Reapers other than giving you more soldiers to fight them with? It was established in as early as Mass Effect 1 that the Reapers are too powerful to be beaten by any conventional means.

Edit:

I wonder how often Stormwaltz looks in this topic. Now would be a good time to ask him what the original plan was(if any) for Shepard to kill the Reapers, or if they were planning the Crucible/Giant weapon from the start.

We know what the original big reveal was going to be, and Drew Karpyshyn told what the original choices were going to be; destroy the Reapers or side with them, but we don't know how we were going to destroy them in the former.

Actually Dragon Age properly respected your choices. I mean, who can sacrifice themselves in the end depends on your choices, and you're actually given a denouement at the end of the game regarding what every single one of your major decisions did.

ME3 pre-extended cut at least was like, "Well who knows what happened to all those people you helped because you've blown up all the relays."

Extended Cut at least gave you an inkling of what the ending set in motion for the world outside of a grampa finishing up the best story full of sex and unspeakable violence (thanks BestGamers) for his granddaughter, with the backdrop of a photoshopped desktop picture literally stolen from DeviantArt.

Edit: oh god, we've come full circle.

[Special J]

Well the new MP drew me back and renewed my love for ME3 multiplayer.

Got a Krogan Warlord in my freebie pack.  Moves too slow for my taste but he's pretty much easymode.  My slapped together lvl 17 build had 1750 Shield and 1500 hps.  Did a Bronze mission solo with him vs. Geth and you're pretty much invincible when you rage.  Keep in mind I'm not that good and I don't think I've gone past Wave 5 in the times I've tried before. No consumables used.

Electrical Hammer is 

[Lantyssa]

They did the same thing as in Dragon Age: Origins. The subplots were meant to give the player the forces needed to resolve the main plot. They didn't bring up whether or not you annulled the Circle, Elected Bhelen or Harrowmont, spared the anvil of the void, killed the werewolves/elves or ended the curse WHILE you were fighting your way through Denerim and slaying the Archdemon, now did they?

Not really a great defense considering some people didn't think much of DA's ending either.

[Fabricated]

That and at least to me Dragon Age felt like it gave more agency to the player character.

[Ratman_tf]

Extended Cut wasn't necessary IMO.

It was practically forced by disgruntled players who didn't get the ending.

I think most people 'got' the ending. But they didn't have the means to articulate why it was bad. They just say "That's it?!?!?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NNUImNL9Ok

The ending ending ( ) resolves the central conflict of the series, The Reapers, but it does it very poorly and in a contrived way, so it comes across as unsatisfying.

Some people could skip over this fundamental flaw in the ending, and a few even enjoyed it, but for the most part, the general audience (That bitched about it on the interwebz) threw rotten tomatoes. And rightfully so.

[jakonovski]

Hey guys don't worry, the crew is back!

https://www.giantbomb.com/videos/the-citadel-gets-intriguing-in-mass-effect-3-s-fin/2300-7102/

 

[Nayr]

They did the same thing as in Dragon Age: Origins. The subplots were meant to give the player the forces needed to resolve the main plot. They didn't bring up whether or not you annulled the Circle, Elected Bhelen or Harrowmont, spared the anvil of the void, killed the werewolves/elves or ended the curse WHILE you were fighting your way through Denerim and slaying the Archdemon, now did they?

Not really a great defense considering some people didn't think much of DA's ending either.

I spent a lot of time around Bioware's forum. Never heard many complaints about Origins at all.

In fact, when the whole ME3 ending debacle happened, a lot of people said they would be happy with an epilogue with slides like Dragon Age Origins had. And that's what Bioware did.

ME3 pretty much had the same general plot as DAO. Large horde of baddies comes in to wipe out everything, then player character unites all the different factions against them.

[Nayr]

Extended Cut wasn't necessary IMO.

It was practically forced by disgruntled players who didn't get the ending.

I think most people 'got' the ending. But they didn't have the means to articulate why it was bad. They just say "That's it?!?!?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NNUImNL9Ok

The ending ending ( ) resolves the central conflict of the series, The Reapers, but it does it very poorly and in a contrived way, so it comes across as unsatisfying.

Some people could skip over this fundamental flaw in the ending, and a few even enjoyed it, but for the most part, the general audience (That bitched about it on the interwebz) threw rotten tomatoes. And rightfully so.

The ending is no more contrived than the plot of ME1(Which is still good.)

Saren attacks colonies and does mayhem across the Attican Traverse just to find the Conduit, a small mass relay that will let him sneak in and activate the Citadel Relay while Sovereign and the Geth keep everybody distracted. And that search is what spurs Commander Shepard and brings him in.

Better plan:

Saren doesn't do anything to screw up his Spectre status, lets Sovvie and the Geth attack as planned, then go up to the Citadel Tower while C-Sec and everyone are distracted.

All the conduit did was bring him to a place he's likely been to a million times(the Presidium,) all he did was make it harder for himself. He made himself public enemy #1, make the Citadel shore up it's defenses, and get Shepard and the Alliance involved, which was his downfall.


Also:

People bash the faith put in the Crucible because they didn't know what it was till the very end. But it was the same with the Conduit. Nobody knew what it was(except Saren) until the last misson.

[Morat20]

I think the Reaper needed to be attached to the Citadel to actually make it work, and the first thing the Citadel does when a giant honking space ship shaped like Cthulu shows up is close the arms.

I'm sure Sovereign could shoot his way in, but that's likely to break it's ability to work as a mass relay.

The whole conduit thing was a way to sneak a TON of Geth on board while the fleet distracted everyone, so they could take and hold the Presidium long enough for Saren to override the close commands.

[Ratman_tf]

The ending is no more contrived than the plot of ME1(Which is still good.)

Saren attacks colonies and does mayhem across the Attican Traverse just to find the Conduit, a small mass relay that will let him sneak in and activate the Citadel Relay while Sovereign and the Geth keep everybody distracted. And that search is what spurs Commander Shepard and brings him in.

Better plan:

Saren doesn't do anything to screw up his Spectre status, lets Sovvie and the Geth attack as planned, then go up to the Citadel Tower while C-Sec and everyone are distracted.

All the conduit did was bring him to a place he's likely been to a million times(the Presidium,) all he did was make it harder for himself. He made himself public enemy #1, make the Citadel shore up it's defenses, and get Shepard and the Alliance involved, which was his downfall.

The Conduit was a means to an end. Now imagine if there was no showdown with Saren afterwards and you had to choose 3 different colored buttons because LOOK BEHIND YOU A WILLYWOMPUS!

Also:

People bash the faith put in the Crucible because they didn't know what it was till the very end. But it was the same with the Conduit. Nobody knew what it was(except Saren) until the last misson.

Worse, the players didn't know what the Crucible was until after choosing one of the options it presented. Without writer fiat (and the expanded DLC) the Crucible could have been a lying liar. We have no reason to trust the glowing kid at that point. None at all.

The Conduit was an ass-pull, but it's not nearly in the same category as the Catalyst, because the Conduit was a contrivance to get Shepard to the showdown. The Catalyst was the showdown.

*Multiple edits because I suck at BBcode.*

[rk47]

Ah Citadel of MacGuffin.
Overused as hell.
And the best part? Let's invade Earth first guise - it'll work out for us. Won't take us long.

[Morat20]

Ah Citadel of MacGuffin.
Overused as hell.
And the best part? Let's invade Earth first guise - it'll work out for us. Won't take us long.

All these decades of science fiction, and why wasn't humanity's first response to the Mass Relays and the Citadel along the lines of "Wait, you base you entire civilization on this and don't even know how they work?"

Not telling the Quarians "Yeah, we totally saw that Geth thing coming like a century before we built the first computer" was probably just being polite. :)

[Lantyssa]

I spent a lot of time around Bioware's forum. Never heard many complaints about Origins at all.

Wow.  A fan board where there wasn't many negative comments about the last moments of a game when something like 80% of people never finish.

ME3 is fairly unusual in the vitrol its ending received mainly because the series had been so stellar up to that point.  You can be fine with it all you want.  The rest of us obviously weren't as enlightened, so it sucked as far as we're concerned.

[goishen]

Wow.  A fan board where there wasn't many negative comments about the last moments of a game when something like 80% of people never finish.

ME3 is fairly unusual in the vitrol its ending received mainly because the series had been so stellar up to that point.  You can be fine with it all you want.  The rest of us obviously weren't as enlightened, so it sucked as far as we're concerned.

Hit the Steam store and take a look at the Global Achievements.  Hell, you can even do this on a game that you own.  Find the last achievement you got playing through the game (usually the last chapter), and if you find out that 50% of players got that achievement, I'll be amazed.   Then go to their boards.   You'll see not a lot of people finish games that they buy, and then don't go on the boards to bitch about them.

They just stop playing them.  That's the silent majority.   The only difference I can find with the ME community is that the silent majority isn't silent.   But I also find it interesting that you just can't let it go.   One thing my mom said to me when I was reading the The Hobbit at thirteen years old, "If you are still talking about the book, it must be a good book."

Did the ending suck?   Sure.  Did they pull a Deus Ex Machina outta their ass?   Sure.   Did they also pull a Deus Ex Machina outta their ass when they created eezo?  Yep.   Turians?  Yep.  Quarians?  You bet'cha.   Stop bashing the ending just because you didn't like it.   We all wish the hero could come in and save the day.  But we already have enough of that.  Go watch Castle or Bones if you wanna see that.  

I want my heroes to die, giving up their lives for what they believe in.   That was one reason I was okay with the ending.   I mean, if they didn't have the colored endings, it would be one extremely long cut scene at the end.  Which would you prefer?   Control being taken away ?  Or you being able to control Shepard up until his final moment?  I'm seeing a complaint forming on both fronts.  This is the reason that I think that you're bitching to be bitching.


Played TWD game yet?   Did'ja like how that one ended?   No.  Were you okay with how that one ended?  Why?

[Nayr]

The Conduit was a means to an end. Now imagine if there was no showdown with Saren afterwards and you had to choose 3 different colored buttons because LOOK BEHIND YOU A WILLYWOMPUS!

Worse, the players didn't know what the Crucible was until after choosing one of the options it presented. Without writer fiat (and the expanded DLC) the Crucible could have been a lying liar. We have no reason to trust the glowing kid at that point. None at all.

The Conduit was an ass-pull, but it's not nearly in the same category as the Catalyst, because the Conduit was a contrivance to get Shepard to the showdown. The Catalyst was the showdown.

*Multiple edits because I suck at BBcode.*

The Conduit was completely irrelevant.

Saren's master plan was to use the conduit to go to right outside the Citadel Tower elevator while the Geth and Sovereign assaulted the Citadel to distract C-Sec so they wouldn't interfere with him while he snuck into the Council chamber and activated the master controls.(Drew Karpyshyn explained that much on Twitter.)

But the thing is. Saren didn't need the Conduit. He could have just gone to the Presidium and loitered around the elevator until Sov and Geth attacked. Then he sneaks up during the commotion.

Also that's incorrect. The Illusive Man is considered by the devs to be ME3's final boss. Not the Catalyst/Intelligence. Original plans were for him to pull a Saren and mutate into a monster, but they decided for it to be a dialogue scene because TIM's intelligence is his greatest weapon(a battle of wits, essentially.)

Plus Hackett told you halfway through the game what the Crucible does. It generates energy, but they were concerned how that energy would be released, and whether or not it was dangerous to them and not just the Reapers.

Also the fact that the intelligence bothered to lift Shepard into the Citadel tower's core and finally give straight answers is indicative of trust. He could have just let Shepard stay down there with Anderson and bleed to death. Or sent a Marauder up the beam to finish him off while he's asleep. He would have won. But he chose to parley.

[Nayr]

Citadel trailer is out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiQRP9PNxng

[rk47]

I spent a lot of time around Bioware's forum. Never heard many complaints about Origins at all.

Wow.  A fan board where there wasn't many negative comments about the last moments of a game when something like 80% of people never finish.

HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE BIOWARE FANS OF FANBOI ATTITUDE?!

[Lantyssa]

Played TWD game yet?   Did'ja like how that one ended?   No.  Were you okay with how that one ended?  Why?

Can't answer since I don't know what TWD is.

They just stop playing them.  That's the silent majority.   The only difference I can find with the ME community is that the silent majority isn't silent.   But I also find it interesting that you just can't let it go.

Maybe there is a reason for that.

The SWG NGE got a lot of discussion around here.  That does not mean it was a good move.  This is a gaming board that discusses design, good and bad.  A lack of discussion means there isn't much to comment on.  A lot of discussion here does not mean something was done well.

It's funny how you think only the opposing side can't let it go though.  One is composed of a miniscule number of people who defend it every time its mentioned.  The other has many people who can individual pipe up once in a while.  Given the numerical differences, I'm pretty sure it's the defenders that "can't let it go".

Regardless, it was shitty writing, akin to how Event Horizon went from hard sci-fi to pure horror.  It's a genre change at the very end, and it doesn't work for most people.

[Ratman_tf]

The Conduit was completely irrelevant.

Saren's master plan was to use the conduit to go to right outside the Citadel Tower elevator while the Geth and Sovereign assaulted the Citadel to distract C-Sec so they wouldn't interfere with him while he snuck into the Council chamber and activated the master controls.(Drew Karpyshyn explained that much on Twitter.)

But the thing is. Saren didn't need the Conduit. He could have just gone to the Presidium and loitered around the elevator until Sov and Geth attacked. Then he sneaks up during the commotion.

Also that's incorrect. The Illusive Man is considered by the devs to be ME3's final boss. Not the Catalyst/Intelligence. Original plans were for him to pull a Saren and mutate into a monster, but they decided for it to be a dialogue scene because TIM's intelligence is his greatest weapon(a battle of wits, essentially.)

Then why include the Catalyst at all? There's even fan edits that simply end the game after TIM encounter.

Plus Hackett told you halfway through the game what the Crucible does. It generates energy, but they were concerned how that energy would be released, and whether or not it was dangerous to them and not just the Reapers.

"It generates energy" is not a sufficent explanation for a player to make a decision about whether to jump into it, or blow it up, or grab some handles.

Also the fact that the intelligence bothered to lift Shepard into the Citadel tower's core and finally give straight answers is indicative of trust. He could have just let Shepard stay down there with Anderson and bleed to death. Or sent a Marauder up the beam to finish him off while he's asleep. He would have won. But he chose to parley.

Vent Boy made the Reapers in the first place. It's motives are highly suspicious, it's possibly insane or broken (or both) and it's goals for 100's of thousands of years has been to slaughter every sapient species in the galaxy/. A little teatime chat doesn't make those things go away.

[goishen]

Can't answer since I don't know what TWD is.

The Walking Dead game.  

Maybe there is a reason for that.

The SWG NGE got a lot of discussion around here.  That does not mean it was a good move.  This is a gaming board that discusses design, good and bad.  A lack of discussion means there isn't much to comment on.  A lot of discussion here does not mean something was done well.

It's funny how you think only the opposing side can't let it go though.  One is composed of a miniscule number of people who defend it every time its mentioned.  The other has many people who can individual pipe up once in a while.  Given the numerical differences, I'm pretty sure it's the defenders that "can't let it go".

Regardless, it was shitty writing, akin to how Event Horizon went from hard sci-fi to pure horror.  It's a genre change at the very end, and it doesn't work for most people.

Right, I'm not stating that you, in any way, had anything to do with this.   Yet, your side, the, "GrrrRRRrrRRrrr, I hate ME now!" is the one that came up with the whole indoctrination theory.  That's because the "defenders" still think it's good story.  Not, "GrrrRRRrrRRRrrr, ME sucks now!"  But, I understand not being able to let something go.  On Steam, you can read my bitching about the new XCom.   And the only reason is because I still love the original, the fluke that it was.  I stopped going to Steam discussion board for the simple reason that no matter how much I pitched a bitch, they weren't gonna change the mechanics of it at all.   Firaxis told the story they wanted to tell.  Game over.

The same is true here.

Call me a ME whore if you want and a ME apologist if you must, but I still believe that you wanted the Shepard story to go on forever.  At the very start of ME3, you knew you wouldn't like it because you knew that Shepard was gonna die.   Or maybe you just lied to yourself until that final moment.  Was the writing sub-par?   IMO, yes, but not for the same reasons you think.   I've already mentioned the game being too Data, I mean EDI, heavy.  The game was too militaristic, and that militarism showed a plot hole that said, "Yeh, I'm a Spectre, Admiral.  I could kill you and walk away."   Instead, Shepard was saluting and doing marine calls all over the place.   I expected Shepard to salute Aria at one point.   IMO, militarism just shows a general laziness that writers get whenever they run out of ideas.  That was one reason why ME2 did so well, I think.  Because I can't recall Shepard saluting ANYONE.  Did it work in the overall theme of the games, is the bigger question?   IMO, yeh.  It did.  

I'll be buying the Citadel expansion today, which could show me being a ME whore/apologist.  But I'm not sorry for it.  BioWare created a great game, and I'm not sorry for that either.

[Lantyssa]

Call me a ME whore if you want and a ME apologist if you must, but I still believe that you wanted the Shepard story to go on forever.  At the very start of ME3, you knew you wouldn't like it because you knew that Shepard was gonna die.   Or maybe you just lied to yourself until that final moment.  Was the writing sub-par?   IMO, yes, but not for the same reasons you think.   I've already mentioned the game being too Data, I mean EDI, heavy.  The game was too militaristic, and that militarism showed a plot hole that said, "Yeh, I'm a Spectre, Admiral.  I could kill you and walk away."   Instead, Shepard was saluting and doing marine calls all over the place.   I expected Shepard to salute Aria at one point.   IMO, militarism just shows a general laziness that writers get whenever they run out of ideas.  That was one reason why ME2 did so well, I think.  Because I can't recall Shepard saluting ANYONE.  Did it work in the overall theme of the games, is the bigger question?   IMO, yeh.  It did.

ME whore and apologist!

I think you're painting a blanket picture on why people didn't like the game though.  I thought ME3 all the way up to confronting the Illusive Man was an awesome game.  It did exactly what I wanted.  All the way up to that point.

It's soley ghost boy, the choices, and the results I personally don't like.  It's jarring.  (Incidentally, I thought the ending to Deus Ex: Human Revolution was almost as bad, which this is almost an exact copy of.)  It's bad storytelling.  It's horrible logic espoused in the same manner some drunk at a party thinks they've got this mind-blowing theory, but really it's just stupid and they're inebriated so they don't know any better.

Honestly the ending was disappointing, but didn't make me mad.  It's people trying to defend it as it being INCREDIBLE and how the rest of us JUST DON'T GET IT that pisses me off.  They made a shit decision in the ending sequence of story to a beloved trilogy of games.  It was a poor decision.  Whether it was mind-blowingly too awesome for us to get or actually just crap, they misjudged their audience's reaction.  And that is poor design.  And people are defending them tooth and nail over it.  That's the real pisser.

[Abelian75]

One thing my mom said to me when I was reading the The Hobbit at thirteen years old, "If you are still talking about the book, it must be a good book."

Well, yeah, I don't think anyone upset about the ending would dispute the fact that the rest of the series was, for the most part, extremely awesome storytelling.  That's why it's really hard to stomach such an atrocious ending.

And no, it had nothing to do with characters dying, yada yada yada.  It's all been said a million times before, quite articulately in a few cases, so probably if you don't see it by now you aren't about to anytime soon, and vice versa.

[Nayr]

Then why include the Catalyst at all? There's even fan edits that simply end the game after TIM encounter.

Is that a trick question?

The Catalyst/Intelligence was there for these reasons.

1. To answer questions. Mainly this one, "why are you doing this to us"

2. The Reapers make no sense without a puppet master pulling strings behind the curtains. The fact that the Reapers have worked for billions of years in such unison, never disagreeing on their path, never questioning themselves, screams that they have a leader/master.

[rk47]

Call me a ME whore if you want and a ME apologist if you must, but I still believe that you wanted the Shepard story to go on forever.  At the very start of ME3, you knew you wouldn't like it because you knew that Shepard was gonna die.   Or maybe you just lied to yourself until that final moment.  Was the writing sub-par?   IMO, yes, but not for the same reasons you think.   I've already mentioned the game being too Data, I mean EDI, heavy.  The game was too militaristic, and that militarism showed a plot hole that said, "Yeh, I'm a Spectre, Admiral.  I could kill you and walk away."   Instead, Shepard was saluting and doing marine calls all over the place.   I expected Shepard to salute Aria at one point.   IMO, militarism just shows a general laziness that writers get whenever they run out of ideas.  That was one reason why ME2 did so well, I think.  Because I can't recall Shepard saluting ANYONE.  Did it work in the overall theme of the games, is the bigger question?   IMO, yeh.  It did.

ME whore and apologist!

I think you're painting a blanket picture on why people didn't like the game though.  I thought ME3 all the way up to confronting the Illusive Man was an awesome game.  It did exactly what I wanted.  All the way up to that point.

It's soley ghost boy, the choices, and the results I personally don't like.  It's jarring.  (Incidentally, I thought the ending to Deus Ex: Human Revolution was almost as bad, which this is almost an exact copy of.)  It's bad storytelling.  It's horrible logic espoused in the same manner some drunk at a party thinks they've got this mind-blowing theory, but really it's just stupid and they're inebriated so they don't know any better.

Honestly the ending was disappointing, but didn't make me mad.  It's people trying to defend it as it being INCREDIBLE and how the rest of us JUST DON'T GET IT that pisses me off.  They made a shit decision in the ending sequence of story to a beloved trilogy of games.  It was a poor decision.  Whether it was mind-blowingly too awesome for us to get or actually just crap, they misjudged their audience's reaction.  And that is poor design.  And people are defending them tooth and nail over it.  That's the real pisser.

Bio-whores gonna whore.

[Venkman]

This thread is a great example of not all social media conversations being good conversations for the IP.

The ending works when you look for ways to make it work. It does not (did not) work out of the box. This is the difference between "story" (where fans will find every rationale) and "storytelling" (where people react to the telling).

tl;dr: Star Trek V book vs Star Trek V movie

And DA:O comparisons kinda don't work for two reasons: 1) it was a single game with carry-forward decisions; and, 2) they changed so much for the sequel it might as well have been a different brand.

[Maledict]

I love the fact that even though we *literally* have proof they wrote the ending on the back of a fag packet and intended it to be confusing nonsensical crap people are still claiming its great and the majority of folks just dont't get it.

I mean, we've even seen the photo's of the bit of paper they wrote this rubbish on! This was not some planned magnific opus, it was a hastily drawn up, badly thought out mess by writers who decided they wanted to deliberately fuck with the players. This is quite literally the truth.

(I do like the addition of the 'all complainers just wanted shepherd to live forever and have cake as well' line. Despite no-one even hinting at that we've got to build those straw men!)

[Ratman_tf]

Then why include the Catalyst at all? There's even fan edits that simply end the game after TIM encounter.

Is that a trick question?

The Catalyst/Intelligence was there for these reasons.

1. To answer questions. Mainly this one, "why are you doing this to us"

2. The Reapers make no sense without a puppet master pulling strings behind the curtains. The fact that the Reapers have worked for billions of years in such unison, never disagreeing on their path, never questioning themselves, screams that they have a leader/master.

Again, information imparted by a brand new character, dropped into the story at the very last minute, who may or may not be lying, insane, broken, or all three at once. Unless you just accept that Vent Boy is a hastily tossed together character for the writer to reassure the player and get them to pick a goddamn color so the game can end.