Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread [Spoiler tag free, beware]

[jakonovski]

Ha, I don't even remember DA:O having that stuff. I guess it goes to show how important it is for highly immersive games to disguise their gamey elements, at least for me.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, it's waaaaay less obvious, and they got much better at disgusing it in the two DLCs for DA2 (particularly Legacy). Honestly if DA2 was as good as its DLCs were, I think people would've been much happier with the game. 

[jakonovski]

I...I've been secretly looking at the DA2 DLC for a new playthrough.

[Sir Fodder]

Diana Allers downloads her life story to Prothean Javk's biochemical data stick: http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0u1gcTPS31r3gb3zo1_250.gif

Kiss and tell with a reaper: https://twitter.com/#!/DianaAllersANN   link  (holy shit LOL)

[Sjofn]

I...I've been secretly looking at the DA2 DLC for a new playthrough.

Legacy is excellent, especially if you like your sibling. Mark of the Assassin isn't as good, but that's partly because of the Felicia Day character doing nothing for me. On the other hand, you get to hang out with a bunch of Orlesians and their accents, and there's a long stealth section (although you can go "fuck it, swords for everyone!" through it instead).

And there is no map copying!

[tmp]

What about DA2's gameplay was "awful," out of curiousity?

Hmm, let me think... probably a combination of factors. Unnecessary class restrictions. Different mechanics/rulesets for the player+party and the opponents, enforcing lack of friendly fire on most difficulties which trivialized tactics. Then the in-your-face waves making fights pointlessly longer for the sake of being longer. Also the change to pace/animations -- while that's not gameplay per se, the complete lack of momentum in melee moves made it feel so artificial it plain wasn't fun to watch.

Let me put it this way -- at some point during my DA2 playthrough i went back to DAO to check something, and promptly managed to wipe out my group in the first random encounter, simply because i've gotten so used to facerolling through things, i completely didn't think about my approach until it was too late. That was with groups at similar development point, and difficuly set at comparable levels.

edit: i should note though, that's with self-imposed restriction to use of heal pots. Certainly, both games could be rendered completely trivial with those. (or with DLC items)

[Sjofn]

DA:O I could chain pound healing potions, DA2 actually has a cooldown (which makes playing without a mage in DA2 way harder D:). I'm not quite sure what you mean by "unnecessary class restrictions," though.

Amusingly, I just did a fight in DA:O the other day for no reason, and I found the combat sluggish and tedious. DA2's combat is visually retarded, but it felt a lot more fun.

EDIT: I should note, I think I did three playthroughs of DA:O before I simply stopped using mages altogether.

[jakonovski]

I...I've been secretly looking at the DA2 DLC for a new playthrough.

Legacy is excellent, especially if you like your sibling. Mark of the Assassin isn't as good, but that's partly because of the Felicia Day character doing nothing for me. On the other hand, you get to hang out with a bunch of Orlesians and their accents, and there's a long stealth section (although you can go "fuck it, swords for everyone!" through it instead).

And there is no map copying!

Douchelord Hawke cares not for silly stealth sections! 

[tmp]

DA:O I could chain pound healing potions, DA2 actually has a cooldown (which makes playing without a mage in DA2 way harder D:). I'm not quite sure what you mean by "unnecessary class restrictions," though.

The cooldown seems messed up by the UI in DA2 -- using them from the inventory it's separate for each character, rather than shared by everyone. Effectively i think my use of healing magic amounted to single spell every 5-10 fights, and that's just because i didn't want to use pots since spell charges didn't have to be bought/looted.

Class restictions -- warriors not getting dual wield and ranged option, armour limitations for rogues and mages. Add to that followers being limited to their "iconic gear", and it pretty much removed any interest i'd otherwise have in customizing the characters.

[Lantyssa]

that's why i love art the triggers a visceral reaction, it grips you and bypasses the logical and rational part of your brain. I'm usually not a fan of art that is too analytical and constructed

So you liked the ending of ME3 after all?

[koro]

I also found DA2's forcibly low camera angle and complete removal of the overhead tactical view a complete pain in the ass. Ground-targeted spells on my mage became guessing games of whether or not I was actually placing it where I wanted if I tried targeting beyond, say, fifteen feet in front of me. I have a hard time eyeballing ranges in games as it is, and DA2's camera did not help one iota.

[Sjofn]

I...I've been secretly looking at the DA2 DLC for a new playthrough.

Legacy is excellent, especially if you like your sibling. Mark of the Assassin isn't as good, but that's partly because of the Felicia Day character doing nothing for me. On the other hand, you get to hang out with a bunch of Orlesians and their accents, and there's a long stealth section (although you can go "fuck it, swords for everyone!" through it instead).

And there is no map copying!

Douchelord Hawke cares not for silly stealth sections! 

My trollface rogue Hawke was excited by the chance to actually rogue. My fighter Hawkes just stabbed their way through though, yeah. 


The healing potion cooldown worked fine for me, tmp, it was per-character, worked fine? Dunno. And I get the "QQ no DW warriors" but man I just do not ever feel the need to dress my rogue in heavy armor or spec my fighter in archery. I liked DA2 better in that there were a lot more choices of build for my dudes, even after taking away a couple of things. Building a 2h warrior in DA:O, it was going to be pretty much the same every time. My DA2 2h warriors are all different. It's an acceptable trade-off to me.

That said I do wish they'd bring back DW warriors, those were my favorite in DA:O. But not if they're going to stick with the spazzy animations. I still haven't actually played a melee rogue in DA2 because I hate them that much.

[Sjofn]

ON TOPIC:

I've decided I don't like the fighting the Reaper on foot sequence on Rannoch. And the conversation with it while it's dying just kept reminding me of the shitty ending that was looming in my future and made me depressed.

[Ingmar]

PS: I do play Bioware games. Just not the bad ones, which obviously means I haven't played any since DA:O/ME2. Want me to break out my 4-cd case and cloth map from Baldur's Gate 1?

Screw it. I'm breaking out Planescape: Torment to remind myself what a branching ending based on playstyle is like.

You might want to pick a game that actually has one then.

[kildorn]

Fighting the Rannoch reaper needed to not involve the orbital strike. Shep was pissed enough he should have walked over and just punched it in the eye. And then had a renegade interrupt during it's monologue to punch it again.

[Sjofn]

Then cut to Cassandra saying to Varric, "What the FUCK are you even talking about?"

[tmp]

Oh god. I'd kill for Cassandra + Varric during the Fucking Kid ending reveal, now.

edit: also, i can't view TIM screaming "No one tells me what to do!" without the DA:O flashback.

[Mosesandstick]

ME1 conversation with Sovereign

I remember thinking that I really hoped that they knew where the series was going at that point and Sovereign's words weren't going to be meaningless.

[Lakov_Sanite]

ME1 conversation with Sovereign

I remember thinking that I really hoped that they knew where the series was going at that point and Sovereign's words weren't going to be meaningless.

From that, the whole reapers being made from entire civilizations kind of makes sense in me2, though I picture them needing an ENTIRE civilization to make a reaper. The stuff from the end of ME3 though, doesn't really mesh with it, also from that conversation I kinda wanted to think there were billions of reapers out there waiting, not a couple hundred.

[Sjofn]

"Your words are as empty as your future" = oh snap


Also Kaidan & ManShep are the cutest couple ever. His goodbye in London was  .

And then. You know. The ending happened again. 

[tmp]

ME1 conversation with Sovereign

I remember thinking that I really hoped that they knew where the series was going at that point and Sovereign's words weren't going to be meaningless.

"You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding."

well, gotta hand it to the guy, he wasn't fibbing there

[amiable]

There's a post on their forums about how things have been occuring PR-wise and stuff. It's not exactly about the game but it's actually an interesting read.

It reads like something from a conspiracy theorist. The only plausible reason for the SWTOR weekend and the goliath event was a reaction to ending-backlash or a 'battle-plan' for possible backlash? Oooookay.

They did lockthe thread and ban a bunch of the posters, which will just feed the tin-foil hatters.  I actually have a lot of empathy for jessica mertzen in that thread because the PR dude was using a bunch of crazy jargon and jessica pointed out that the PR folks had absolutely no idea what this guy was talking about.  As someone who works for a large organizaiton I can totally see that conversation (between jessica and PR) in my minds eye.

Jessica:  So have you guys been planting a "false flag operation"?
PR:  WTF are you talking about?

[jakonovski]

Oh snap!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/22/is-bioware-setting-a-dangerous-precedent-by-considering-alternative-endings/

[tmp]

Yeah, like the article points out it wouldn't be exactly a new thing. Not to mention that part where they notice the guy has changed his mind 180 degree on the issue.

[Paelos]

Taking a swipe at IGN's bullshit is always a good idea.

[tmp]

pcgamer asks different game writers what they think about making changes to ending

spoiler: number of opinions matches number of assholes.

[Tannhauser]

pcgamer asks different game writers what they think about making changes to ending

spoiler: number of opinions matches number of assholes.

Nice, Bobby Stein of Guild Wars 2 used the question to hype his own game.  Classy.

[MournelitheCalix]

I have an honest question.  I keep reading over and over again about how Bioware takes fan input seriously.  Exactly when has fan input ever in a Bioware title led to immediate changes or changes in direction in any of their games.  I can't think of a single instance of this. 

[Ingmar]

I have an honest question.  I keep reading over and over again about how Bioware takes fan input seriously.  Exactly when has fan input ever in a Bioware title led to immediate changes or changes in direction in any of their games.  I can't think of a single instance of this.  

Dragon Age 2 DLC made several changes to gameplay/area use that were direct responses to complaints about core DA2. Most of the gameplay changes in ME2 were responses to complaints about ME1 - the Mako/scanning (even if they didn't really get it right in ME2), the improved shooter gameplay, the popularity of Garrus and Tali leading to them being romances, etc.

Going back farther Dave Gaider released a bunch of balance tweaks etc. for Throne of Bhaal that I seem to recall being fan-requested as well.

[MournelitheCalix]

I have an honest question.  I keep reading over and over again about how Bioware takes fan input seriously.  Exactly when has fan input ever in a Bioware title led to immediate changes or changes in direction in any of their games.  I can't think of a single instance of this.  

Dragon Age 2 DLC made several changes to gameplay/area use that were direct responses to complaints about core DA2. Most of the gameplay changes in ME2 were responses to complaints about ME1 - the Mako/scanning (even if they didn't really get it right in ME2), the improved shooter gameplay, the popularity of Garrus and Tali leading to them being romances, etc.

Going back farther Dave Gaider released a bunch of balance tweaks etc. for Throne of Bhaal that I seem to recall being fan-requested as well.

Actually the Gaider Throne of Bhaal tweaks was the ascension mod which was stuff that was cut out according to Gaider.  I didn't purchase any of the DLC to Dragon Age 2 so I guess that expains why I missed this.  The Mako thing became the Hammer head DLC if I remember correctly.  Has Bioware actually changed how a game ends with the DA2 DLC?

[Ingmar]

The expansion for DA2 was canceled, so we'll never know what they were going to do around the ending probably. The 2 prior DLC things took place before the end of the game.

But either way there's no question that all of those things were driven by fan input. Fans hated the Mako; they tried to improve it in ME2. Fans liked Tali; she turned into a romance in ME2. Fans hated the reused area assets in DA2, neither of the DLC adventure things reuse any areas (from DA2 itself or within the DLC). People didn't like the way they changed NPC dialogues in Awakenings, so they changed it up for DA2. There are plenty of other examples of things like this.

I don't really see how you could draw a conclusion other than they listen to feedback and make changes, frankly.

[tmp]

iirc DA2 itself was also in large part the way it was as result of how DAO had been received, and as reaction to complaints about what was perceived as flaws of the first game. At least that's the official line.

[Margalis]

iirc DA2 itself was also in large part the way it was as result of how DAO had been received, and as reaction to complaints about what was perceived as flaws of the first game. At least that's the official line.

It's pretty obvious with DA2 that the design changes were mostly done for time and budget reasons. There's no way you can get "re-use the same areas over and over again" out of fan feedback.

[Sjofn]

Obviously not all the changes were fan feedback, but stuff like how speccing worked and the combat were at least in part due to feedback (combat doesn't feel particularly responsive in DA:O, mage staff attacks are basically embarrassing in DA:O, the stamina system isn't nearly as shitty, etc).

[Ratman_tf]

pcgamer asks different game writers what they think about making changes to ending

spoiler: number of opinions matches number of assholes.

Nice, Bobby Stein of Guild Wars 2 used the question to hype his own game.  Classy.

Yeah. I was a bit "Really?" at his interview bit.