Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread [Spoiler tag free, beware]

[Margalis]

Isn't Writing 101 start with a clear beginning and an end and write everything in between?

Not really.

A lot of times when writers come up with an end and works towards it things end up not really making sense.

That said, in video game production a common strat is work on the start and end first, since those are the most important in terms of demos and reviews.

[Comstar]

Well after seeing some you tube, I'm in the camp that the entire ending after entering the beam of light is a reaper indoctrination  attempt. Anderson is Shepard's side, TiM is the reapers trying to convince Shepard to give up. The only true ending is destruction with Shepard's body alive(?) in the ruins of London.

The only way EA and Bioware can resolve it- a free DLC that explains what happened (the reapers were destroyed in that ending, Shepard was alive, the Normandy never crash landed, the gates did not blow up) and just provides a "here's what happened to everyone" voice over by Shepard (you only need 2 VA's) and a static image of each character/race/planet.

it's not often you see a brand destroyed before your eyes- The Matrix was the last one I can recall, though the Star Wars Prequel's came close, they didn't do it.



The last thing Vega said to me was "do you hear something humming"?


Bioware fell for their own indoctrination.  

[Fabricated]

I'm pretty sure PA isn't in on it, but hah.

[Surlyboi]

Nice to see PA has gone full retard in their defense.

I'll answer that comic with another of theirs...



I'm sure the irony is probably lost.

[Jeff Kelly]

Gabe and Tycho have always been intellectual snobs with a "holier than thou" attitude. Just look at the pretentious way Tycho writes his articles. He probably thinks it sounds super smart but for everybody that's not twelve and easily impressed it just reads like he fell head first into a thesaurus and hurt himself.

Dismissing the feelings of your fanbase has always been a winning strategy, obviously. So I suppose the "you're only upset about the end because you're entitled and stupid and not smart and well read like us" will probably go over really well.

It would probably also not sound as inane if they'd actually defended a good if controversial end, like say for example the end to 2001. Claiming that the end can only be appreciated by smart and educated folk would work if it weren't such a badly crafted piece of plot holes.

Defending 2001 with "you probably just didn't get it" might be a valid point, defending Battlefield Earth with the same argument just makes you seem stupid and pretentious.

Still even if it is the best piece of fiction since War and Peace or Moby Dick. If people say they didn't like it that's still a valid opinion even if you don't agree.

So they basically make fun of people that probably make up most of their fanbase for basically having a different opinion than them. Probably not such a great idea but what do I know I'm not as smart as Gabe or Tycho anyway.

[Fabricated]

The PA strip was pretty funny to me to be honest. "And we got you a segway, SPACE COMMANDER SUPREME."

I kinda doubt that they're defending ME3's non-ending for the sake of their phat EA checks to write comics, because at this point with PAX EA not giving them gigs anymore is their loss.

I just think they kinda have shitty taste if you look at the kind of games/writing they're actually into. Gabe in particular is a bigger SW nerd than WUA was.

[Velorath]

So they basically make fun of people that probably make up most of their fanbase for basically having a different opinion than them. Probably not such a great idea but what do I know I'm not as smart as Gabe or Tycho anyway.

That's not really the impression I'm getting from that comic strip (and yes I've read their opinions on the ending).  Just seems like it's the topical thing going on in games right now for them to make light of in their usual manner.  Also, note that the caption in the first panel isn't "the ending fans want to see".  Think you guys might be taking a little too much personal offense here.

[Jeff Kelly]

I'm sure the irony is probably lost.

It was, even then. The fans liked the middle panel so much that they since made "great catsby" comics and also included it into their merchandize.

[Jeff Kelly]

It's basically their way of telling fans to "stop bitching, you want a happy end anyway, which by the way is totally ridiculous as you can see in our satiric interpretation of it".

If that's not meant to be personal it shows a real lack of empathy and is rather tone deaf.

[luckton]

When you're at the top of the web-comic food chain, you can afford to be a snob at times.

[Jeff Kelly]

Nobody can "afford to be a snob sometimes" if his livelyhood depends on the goodwill of people and nobody should behave like he is entitled to be a snob anyway.

You can defend your own opinion without ridiculing those that have a different one you know, it's like totally possible to just have a decent discussion about things even on the intertubes.

If you disagree strongly you'll always have the option to say that "while I understand your opinion I don't agree with it". Your opinion sucks because you're a stupid head is not on the same level of rational discourse, though.

[Velorath]

It's basically their way of telling fans to "stop bitching, you want a happy end anyway, which by the way is totally ridiculous as you can see in our satiric interpretation of it".

If that's not meant to be personal it shows a real lack of empathy and is rather tone deaf.

That would be like if I read your post and said that's basically your way of telling me "you're fucking wrong you retard", and with that being the case that I should be personally offended that you'd say such a thing to me.  You're reading something between the lines which may well not be there, and then using that as proof that they obviously aimed this three panel comic as a personal insult to everybody upset with ME3's ending.

[jakonovski]

Eh, the comic was just not funny. There's a decent argument to be made that it's a corporate (or maybe bad writing) apologist straw man but I can't be arsed to make it.

[jakonovski]

The winter space ending? And one more story about the Shepard?

It's already here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm82gjZDIDU

[ajax34i]

Heh, linked that 2 pages ago.  Not sure I even was the first.

[Paelos]

We're kind of doing apples to oranges here, because most stories/games have a single ending...
Instead we got one subpar ending copypasted 3 times.  It's not about altering the "work of art", it's about delivering alternate outcomes like they did for 99% of the series.  People have invested hundreds of hours replaying ME1/ME2 to get different saves ready for ME3.  That's why they're manning the neckbeards.

This is an excellent point that I think people are glossing over. Pandora's box is already open in terms of the "artistic" side of having multiple endings. This isn't like a novel that shipped, and fuck you if you don't like the ending. This is a choose your own adventure book where all your choices take you to the same last page where you end up dead.

The major difference is that a game is fixable. PA can chortle at fans all they want about wanting happy endings, but what fans really wanted was different endings. At the end of Deus Ex, you got choices. Merge, Status Quo, or reset society. Those are wildly different.

[Lantyssa]

Merge, Status Quo, or reset society. Those are wildly different.

Isn't that the same choices as ME3?  You got a different picture with Deus Ex, but they really are the same in the two games.

It's just... it shouldn't have all boiled down to a single choice.  There should have been an epilogue as in Dragon Age or Fallout 3.  You did such-and-such over the course of the game: This is what resulted.  Thanks for having an impact on the galaxy.

[Paelos]

Merge, Status Quo, or reset society. Those are wildly different.

Isn't that the same choices as ME3?  You got a different picture with Deus Ex, but they really are the same in the two games.

It's just... it shouldn't have all boiled down to a single choice.  There should have been an epilogue as in Dragon Age or Fallout 3.  You did such-and-such over the course of the game: This is what resulted.  Thanks for having an impact on the galaxy.

I think it's what they were going for, but the fact that the rest of the story was deadlocked into blowing up Mass relays and stranding your crew? Nope, they didn't get the options right.

[kaid]

Merge, Status Quo, or reset society. Those are wildly different.

Isn't that the same choices as ME3?  You got a different picture with Deus Ex, but they really are the same in the two games.

It's just... it shouldn't have all boiled down to a single choice.  There should have been an epilogue as in Dragon Age or Fallout 3.  You did such-and-such over the course of the game: This is what resulted.  Thanks for having an impact on the galaxy.

I think it's what they were going for, but the fact that the rest of the story was deadlocked into blowing up Mass relays and stranding your crew? Nope, they didn't get the options right.

Honestly I could forgive the ending I got if it made even one lick of sense. Okay final drive to the tower of light to beam up to the citadel I had edi and tali with me. When I got zapped and got up they were on the ground as I staggered to the beam. Somehow in the time it took me to get to the beam and chat with the illusive man edi/tali were picked up by the normandy which then for some reason went hell bent for leather to the mass effect relay to leave the system.

Then the ship crashes and edi and tali are there and fine. So either the ending is not what really happens or there is just some built in whoever you play with the most shows up in the final screen damn the massive continuity fuckups it causes which makes it seem even more half assed.

[Paelos]

Blow up the galaxy, and you blow up the relays. Fans are ok with this.
Merge with the Reapers, blow up the relays. Fans are scratching their heads.
Become synth Jesus, blow up the relays. Fans write you hate mail.

The colorblind quote is what got me the most for a good chuckle.

[Rokal]

Some of the fan video/images in reaction to the ending have been pretty great.

[ajax34i]

Heh, the "discussion about the endings" on the internets is changing from uproar to derision.  Then I guess it'll die out but we'll remember the derision.

[Merusk]

That's because the internet is on stage 6 if you follow the 7-stages of grief model:  "Working Through" - Trying to find a way to cope.

[Outlawedprod]

Some of the fan video/images in reaction to the ending have been pretty great.

http://masseffect3-ending-flavors.tumblr.com/

[Simond]

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272

Interesting Quotes: (Please note, some of these I'm transcribing from Video's. I'm trying to be as accurate as possible. Will try rewatching the videos later and updating then.)

    Mac Walters on the Star Child/Reapers
    "Originally, with the catalyst, the star child at the end of the game, I had written that much more in the guise of a investigative style conversation, where there is something he tells you but then, you get to ask a bunch of questions and you get your questions answered. But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"



    Casey on after Mass Effect 3
    "Whatever we do would likely happen before or during the events of Mass Effect 3, not after"



    On delaying the game  
    In march 2011, he also faced a roomful of Mass Effect developers who expressed concern about hitting the promised holiday release date... New release date set for March 2012. After much deliberation, the CAT mission (or rather, the Prothean mission) had to be removed from the set of tasks. The missions would later be completed as post-release content"



    Casey on the End Boss
    'We had the final fight with the Illusive man in the game, but it just felt very Video Gamey. It didnt fit in with the themes. And really, is there a point of the end boss if only for the sake of an end boss?'

    The article also states 'Although art was created for this sequence, it was ultimately dropped because it felt too predictable to end the series on a massive boss battle.'



    On Tali's Face
    We eventually decided that she gives you a memento of her pictures, but the team was throwing around a lot of pictures and designs until we decided on something and said "Yup, that's her".



    On Deciding the End of the Game
    The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. 'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'

    In truth the final bits of dialogue were debated right up until the end of 2011. Martin sheen's voice-over session for the illusive man, originally scheduled for August, was delayed until mid-November so the writers would have more time to finesse the ending.

    And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).




Deleted Scenes Videos:
- Liara and Garrus are running behind sheppard in the run for the conduit. Garrus falls over and Liara tries to pick him up. As he gets up, the two run and are hit by a laser as sheppard watches on without hope. In the final version (which is shown beside the deleted scenes video.) the body of your team mates are on the floor dead instead.

 


E: Notes from ME3 Lead "Writer" Mac Walters -



So basically the ending was a doodle on a piece of scrap paper.

[eldaec]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rPelM2hwhJA

This really is amusing.

[taolurker]

Wow the colors (timestamp doesn't stay in embed link, so either open on youtube or move to 4:05)

[Ratman_tf]

Eh, the comic was just not funny. There's a decent argument to be made that it's a corporate (or maybe bad writing) apologist straw man but I can't be arsed to make it.

I was amused. I imagine Wrex's voice in the last panel, and can't help but smile.

Ending was still ass, though.

[Outlawedprod]

Casey Hudson on the Conclusion of Mass Effect 3
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/324/index/10089946

[Daeven]

Yeah, for me, thinking about it, the ship has sailed on the shitty ending. The ending sucked, I will turn the game off with Shepard sitting next to Anderson on the Citadel in my future playthroughs, adding more to the ending really isn't going to do anything. Because I know. I know what the ending was, and I know it sucked.

Started my MANSHEP playthrough. I am enjoying it, even though I know the ending is ass. I played through the end of ME2 to get this MANSHEP ready for ME3. The reaper baby boss fight? Still fucking retarded.  

It could have been worse. The 'roll credits' song could have been Rick Astley - making this the biggest net Troll in the history of mankind...

[Lakov_Sanite]

So where do we go from here? Throughout the next year, we will support Mass Effect 3 by working on new  content. 

"lol, pay us more money if you want closure"

[LK]

So where do we go from here? Throughout the next year, we will support Mass Effect 3 by working on new  content. 

"lol, pay us more money if you want closure"

That's how I read it. I'm don't want to see any more of Commander Shepard. The way Bioware implements its stories is getting a bit tired for me.

I keep thinking how they got caught in a lie with their marketing about the ending and its resulting implementation (along with other BS explanations like the Prothean DLC), and how, once the suspension of disbelief and faith was compromised, it would lead all the other things people might be uncomfortable with but never questioned as long the story was good to come rushing to the forefront.

[Outlawedprod]

Seems like this guy knew when to get out =p
http://blog.brentknowles.com/2009/08/18/onto-new-adventures/

[Margalis]

Yeah, that basically reads as a confirmation of DLC designed to clean up the mess. Lulz.

[Ingmar]

Hopefully free, or free if you have the online pass. (Like the Cerberus Network stuff from ME2.)