Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread [Spoiler tag free, beware]

[Simond]

Posting this reply after reading like half of page 1:

Why is any of Bioware's inability to finish a story well a surprise to anyone? I don't want to look for an answer over like 180 posts.

Well, there's poor endings and then again there's poor endings. I haven't seen a tone-deaf conclusion like this since, oh, I honestly don't know. Even the Matrix Trilogy had better fitting plot twists and a more satisfactory conclusion. Even Gainax at their trolliest write better endings than this.

Hell, I've seen SyFy made-for-TV films with better endings.

[Comstar]

M A S S  C O N T R O L  II: The Reapers Masters

A Great War. A Lost Paradise. An Epic Adventure

"Feb.17. 2167. Deep Space Colony Ilos: Final Log Entry."

"After being marooned on this distant world for nearly 20 years, we have now engineered a launch vehicle with enough power to leave the system. Many of the colonists are too weak for hyperspace. I am faced with the task of choosing 30 of the most fit to accompany me. My mission is clear: find out if our forces or the evil Reapers prevailed in the galactic war. And most importantly, discover if our planet survived."

Mass Control II. The Quest For Earth Begins.

I stayed awake for 26 hours to finish the game. The ending made me cry.

I will pay for a real "no, we heard you, here's what REALLY happened" DLC.

[luckton]

Patching in a not-shitty ending isn't without precedent really. That's what Bethesda basically did with Fallout 3.

As I mentioned in the Skyrim thread, this strategy is currently how Squeenix is handling FF-XIII-2.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-06-final-fantasy-13-2-to-be-continued-ending-explained

[Velorath]

Patching in a not-shitty ending isn't without precedent really. That's what Bethesda basically did with Fallout 3.

As I mentioned in the Skyrim thread, this strategy is currently how Squeenix is handling FF-XIII-2.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-06-final-fantasy-13-2-to-be-continued-ending-explained

From all accounts FF-XIII-2's story is just as incomprehensible as the first.

[luckton]

Patching in a not-shitty ending isn't without precedent really. That's what Bethesda basically did with Fallout 3.

As I mentioned in the Skyrim thread, this strategy is currently how Squeenix is handling FF-XIII-2.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-06-final-fantasy-13-2-to-be-continued-ending-explained

From all accounts FF-XIII-2's story is just as incomprehensible as the first.

True, but that's a progressive thing with FF.  I imagine that FFXV will require either a doctorate-level education to even beginto understand the  , or some REALLY good LSD  

Still, the point remains; DLC could save/triage the ending, though I don't know how.  Once Shep is dead, he's dead, so unless they're prepared to (fucking finally) allow us to control someone other than Shep directly, I think we're done here.

[Simond]

Yesssss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQvPFNjxxU0

Also: Almost everyone on the Citadel died when the arms closed.

[luckton]

Wow...ok, someone explain this shit:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DPhWndG6EIY

Skip to 4:24 for the meat.

It's a 'Destroy' ending, but the uploader claims that he achieved a score 'over 5000' on the galactic prep thing.

Discuss.   

[Paelos]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/12/how-bioware-could-find-redemption-using-mass-effect-3/2/

Forbes contributor suggests that Bioware release a free DLC ending as a sort of apology to fans.

If they’re trying to fix their poor ending with more paid DLC, they’re really barking up the wrong tree with fans who are already furious with them for exploiting the concept in the first place, and it would be like making them pay extra to see Bioware’s own mistake fixed.

I think Bioware owes it to their fans to give them something like this as a show of good faith. It’s not much work on their part, but would be perceived as a gesture of goodwill to show the company hasn’t been completely consumed by EA. Fixing the troublesome ending would give fans what they were looking for, and doing so as a sort of apology would go a long way to rebuilding that brand trust that’s so crucial for long term success in this industry.

I actually agree with his proposal. It would go a long way to fix things by showing customers they were heard by the developer. Meanwhile, EA's stock has been taking a progressive beating in 2012, and is on the tops of many short sellers lists.

[Sjofn]

Also: Almost everyone on the Citadel died when the arms closed.

Duh?

[luckton]

Seriously, am I missing something here?  If you're EMS score is high enough, Shep gets to live after all?

[Sjofn]

Supposedly if you have a high enough EMS and pick the Red Ending, there's a brief clip of Shepard taking a breath while buried under a pile of rubble. Nevermind that there's no way s/he would survive the Citadel getting blowed up. Nothing else about the ending is satisfying or makes much sense, why should that?

[Riggswolfe]

Seriously, am I missing something here?  If you're EMS score is high enough, Shep gets to live after all?

If you choose the "Renegade" ending and wipe out all synthetic life including Edi and the Geth then yes. You see a brief shot of his chest armor and then he takes a breath.

[luckton]

Supposedly if you have a high enough EMS and pick the Red Ending, there's a brief clip of Shepard taking a breath while buried under a pile of rubble. Nevermind that there's no way s/he would survive the Citadel getting blowed up. Nothing else about the ending is satisfying or makes much sense, why should that?

I dunno...I haven't seen the issue discussed yet.  Any word on any difference if you have a high EMS and go Control or Merge?

[Velorath]

Supposedly if you have a high enough EMS and pick the Red Ending, there's a brief clip of Shepard taking a breath while buried under a pile of rubble. Nevermind that there's no way s/he would survive the Citadel getting blowed up. Nothing else about the ending is satisfying or makes much sense, why should that?

I dunno...I haven't seen the issue discussed yet.  Any word on any difference if you have a high EMS and go Control or Merge?

My EMS was over 6000 and I had 100% readiness from doing a lot of multiplayer.  There's no sign of Shepard still alive in the Merge ending.

[Sjofn]

I cannot remember what my EMS was (I had filled the bar but I think I was shy of 4k, which is what you need for the Shepard breathes DESTROY ending), but the stuff I've read indicates it's destroy or bust. I will say with the synthesis ending, you like. Melt. Onscreen. So I doubt she's coming back from that either way.

Also, it occurs to me that Shepard is not WEARING armor in the final WTF moments (you are in bloodied fatigues). Which I suppose is why some people are clinging to the hope that all that WTF wankery was just Shepard hallucinating, and ANY MINUTE NOW the "real" endings will be unlocked and you don't ruin the entire setting because shut up that's why.

[Rokal]

It's just the Destroy ending, which starkid warns you will kill you because you are largely synthetic too after you were rebuilt in ME2. In the other two endings, you don't die so much as you are absorbed into beams of light. You're basically watching your body disintegrate.

[Lakov_Sanite]

So, is it just me or does anyone else find the concept of a macguffin 'magically' killing every synthetic in the galaxy to be a bit....much? I mean think about it logically. How would it even be able to distinguish between a geth or say, a toaster?

[Paelos]

So, is it just me or does anyone else find the concept of a macguffin 'magically' killing every synthetic in the galaxy to be a bit....much? I mean think about it logically. How would it even be able to distinguish between a geth or say, a toaster?

Geth shoot at you. Toasters make PopTarts.

[Riggswolfe]

Some guy on the Bioware forums wrote his vision of a 4th choice that should have been available in the ending. To me, this is pretty close to how it should have ended.

[Miasma]

I just finished it now.  So that bioware guy who promised we didn't need to do multiplayer to get the best ending (if you consider synthesis the best) is just a fucking liar right?

[Pezzle]

The Salarian Union formally requests you stop touching that.

Good stuff there!

[MournelitheCalix]

Are we being played?

[Sjofn]

I just finished it now.  So that bioware guy who promised we didn't need to do multiplayer to get the best ending (if you consider synthesis the best) is just a fucking liar right?

I got the synthesis ending without doing any multiplayer or anything. I didn't even do ALL the sidequests (I even missed entirely the Kasumi cameo sidequest, which nets quite a few assets). I just did shit until my bar was full, then off I went (I usually do my second playthrough as the MUST DO EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING playthrough, first playthrough is MUST DO ALL THE OBVIOUS SHIT playthrough).


EDIT: Although! It MAY be hard to get if you don't have a good ME import. I'm not sure what the "no save import, brand new game" is.

[Riggswolfe]

Are we being played?

[Ratman_tf]

Are we being played?

I really do think that Bioware flinched. The converastion with the Catalyst reeks of juking from one idea to another during the final writing process.

It kinda makes sense if you imagine the Citadel is inhabited by the first Reaper. The first species to undergo the change. That species saw that the road to singularity was dangerous and painful, and wanted to save other species from the risk of self-annihilation. So it started harvesting them and uplifting them to become Reapers. Dark Energy, Synthetic Takeover, Nuclear Proliferation and Gingivitus- The Reapers are beyond these concerns, and we can be too. Instead of giving the Reapers a specific threat, I think they would have been much more interesting as wanting to prevent a general threat.

[Riggswolfe]

Are we being played?

I really do think that Bioware flinched. The converastion with the Catalyst reeks of juking from one idea to another during the final writing process.

It kinda makes sense if you imagine the Citadel is inhabited by the first Reaper. The first species to undergo the change. That species saw that the road to singularity was dangerous and painful, and wanted to save other species from the risk of self-annihilation. So it started harvesting them and uplifting them to become Reapers. Dark Energy, Synthetic Takeover, Nuclear Proliferation and Gingivitus- The Reapers are beyond these concerns, and we can be too. Instead of giving the Reapers a specific threat, I think they would have been much more interesting as wanting to prevent a general threat.

I don't think the Reapers should have been explained anymore than they were in the first 2 games. I didn't need to know their motives. They were alien and mysterious and wanted to put me in a glass and hit puree. I didn't need anymore than that. I just needed to beat them and have a satisfying resolution. That was it.

[luckton]

Okay, I'm opening up this thread and declaring it spoiler-tag free from this point forward.

Everyone is largely discussing either the ending or things that require knowledge of the ending, and I'm tired of post after endless post with spoiler tags. It's dumb, so, at this point

You have been warned.

If we didn't turn it down for the cops, what chance do you have?!

 

Seriously, I'm with you on this...was just having fun, please don't ban me XD

[Jeff Kelly]

Right now, unless someone at Bioware magically appears yelling "Psych" and showing me the already finished DLC that turns the ending around, this is all just conjecture and the grapsing at straws by desperate and utterly disappointed fans.

We're basically in Stage 3 of the five stages of grief as they pertain to Mass Effect.

We've had denial and anger already, now we're at bargaining, soon we'll arrive at depression and finally acceptance of this being just another shitty ending to another beloved series with no hidden meanings or secret messages to "enlightened" fans.

They went for the strong reveal and "surpising" twist at the end (Mass Effect written and directed by M. Night Shyamalan). Unfortunately for them, the writers for ME 1 and 2 never intended the series to end this way, they didn't put any hints in place in ME 3 that could point you to the series ending this way and the ME writers are not really good enough to pull something like this off anyway. So the end completely crashed and burned and took the whole series down with it.

The rest is just fans expressing their grief on the internet

[Fabricated]

Right now, unless someone at Bioware magically appears yelling "Psych" and showing me the already finished DLC that turns the ending around, this is all just conjecture and the grapsing at straws by desperate and utterly disappointed fans.

We're basically in Stage 3 of the five stages of grief as they pertain to Mass Effect.

We've had denial and anger already, now we're at bargaining, soon we'll arrive at depression and finally acceptance of this being just another shitty ending to another beloved series with no hidden meanings or secret messages to "enlightened" fans.

They went for the strong reveal and "surpising" twist at the end (Mass Effect written and directed by M. Night Shyamalan). Unfortunately for them, the writers for ME 1 and 2 never intended the series to end this way, they didn't put any hints in place in ME 3 that could point you to the series ending this way and the ME writers are not really good enough to pull something like this off anyway. So the end completely crashed and burned and took the whole series down with it.

The rest is just fans expressing their grief on the internet

This pretty much. It reeks to me of either a rush-job, or possibly a half-ass compromise after a lot of debate by the writers. If it was confirmed as the latter I'd be more alright with it; I mean the authors having the same discussion we're having about how stupid X/Y/Z is and then realizing they have to work with what they have because they have 99% of the voice acting recorded already and most of the animation/art is done, then going for what they considered the least offensive option at least makes me feel less cheated. I mean, they cared at least, even if they should've had it written in concrete longer than 10 minutes before they went gold.

[Jeff Kelly]

This is basically "Writing 101" though, isn't it.

Be clear on how you'll want to start, know how you'll want it to end, then fill in everything in between.

I get that this is not always feasible in Television, where you seldom know for exactly how long your series will be on but in written fiction, moview or gaming this should be the modus operandi.

Especially in games where it is nearly impossible to "fix things in post" or reshoot/restage things after they have been created.

The bigger picture is that this is somehow a trend now. There have been a number of series in the last years, in gaming, television and movies, that left fans with lazy or even shitty endings and resolutions. And I don't mean merely unsatisfying ends because I know that you can't be everything to everybody when you've built up expectations over months or years.

[Miasma]

I just finished it now.  So that bioware guy who promised we didn't need to do multiplayer to get the best ending (if you consider synthesis the best) is just a fucking liar right?

I got the synthesis ending without doing any multiplayer or anything. I didn't even do ALL the sidequests (I even missed entirely the Kasumi cameo sidequest, which nets quite a few assets). I just did shit until my bar was full, then off I went (I usually do my second playthrough as the MUST DO EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING playthrough, first playthrough is MUST DO ALL THE OBVIOUS SHIT playthrough).


EDIT: Although! It MAY be hard to get if you don't have a good ME import. I'm not sure what the "no save import, brand new game" is.

I did absolutely everything I could.  After every priority I would do a walk around and talk to all my crew and go through the entire citadel looking for quests.  Every single asset system was explored to 100%.  I didn't complete one mission because even though I searched every nook and cranny I still managed to miss a terminal or something but that was from the DLC so it shouldn't be required.  I have to assume it was because I had no ME2 imports.  I couldn't get both the geth and quarians, Jack never showed up at all in my game and I assume I miss out on other things too.  I was at 2712 readiness and I guess you need 2800 without multiplayer.  At any rate you need an effective readiness of 4000 to get the Shepard lives ending.

I shall play some multiplayer as I curse bioware.

[Jeff Kelly]

BTW. I'm sad about all of the missed opportunities they didn't take.

Take for example the great little scene between Garrus and Sheperd on top of the citadel presidium.

Why not make a mini game out of it? You already have the mechanics for it in place (also the spectre shooting range is in the game). Let them shoot at bottles for a while. Let the players see if they can actually win against somebody as skilled as Garrus. Create an achivement for it. Let the players decide if they'll let him win with more than just a dialogue option. Make mechanics so that both Garrus and Shepard can cheat or distract each other. End with a quip by whoever wins and let them choose to be a graceful winner/loser or to gloat at the other a little.

This would be that much more memorable to players.

I actually expected them to let me shoot the bottle myself, this being a "shooting at things" kind of game after all.

When they left me with basically a dialogue option it made me said because I realized just how myopic their view of the game and their thought processes had been by this point.

Bethesda or Obsidian would have made a whole mini game out of that, complete with challenges and achievements and all the bells and whistles.

Bioware gives you an animation where Shepard vapidly stares into the distance and then let's you select a dialogue option that boils down to "be a dick and let him win" or "be a dick and don't let him win".

[Jeff Kelly]

I did absolutely everything I could.  After every priority I would do a walk around and talk to all my crew and go through the entire citadel looking for quests.  Every single asset system was explored to 100%.  I didn't complete one mission because even though I searched every nook and cranny I still managed to miss a terminal or something but that was from the DLC so it shouldn't be required. 

You'll basically need the bar to reach the end, even though effective strength is only 50% which should require about 6000 readiness rating (which leaves 3000 effective)

One gripe I had with two and three, you can miss essential upgrades or quest items. For example the dog tag the guy in the embassy requires who talks about his missing son is hidden in one of the N7 side missions (which are all basically repurposed multi player maps). Those missions end automatically when you've completed the objective. So you're either lucky and pick it up accidentally while shooting at Cerberus thugs or you're SOL.

As in 2 you can miss guns and upgrades and you'll be unable to return to prior parts of levels after a cutscene has played. As in 2 you'll be unable to get to those resources after a cutscene has played/you finished a level/ a door has locked. As in 2 this can screw you out of the "best" ending if you're unlucky.

I have to assume it was because I had no ME2 imports.  I couldn't get both the geth and quarians, Jack never showed up at all in my game and I assume I miss out on other things too.  I was at 2712 readiness and I guess you need 2800 without multiplayer.  At any rate you need an effective readiness of 4000 to get the Shepard lives ending.

The way you get to the "least worst" end is also influenced by paragon/renegade decisions you've made in ME 1 and 2. The decision to keep the colllector base/destroy the collector base at the end of ME 2 tweaks the points you need for certain ends to unlock for example other paragon/renegade decisions also tweak the point levels needed to unlock certain endings. There are also one or two things you simply cannot do if you made the wrong decisions in ME 1 or 2 (uniting the geth and the quarians for example)

Jack shows up in the mission where you have to protect the group of biotic students from Grissom(?) Academy from Cerberus and where you can meet the autistic guy from the Project: Overlord DLC

[Miasma]

One gripe I had with two and three, you can miss essential upgrades or quest items. For example the dog tag the guy in the embassy requires who talks about his missing son is hidden in one of the N7 side missions (which are all basically repurposed multi player maps). Those missions end automatically when you've completed the objective. So you're either lucky and pick it up accidentally while shooting at Cerberus thugs or you're SOL.

I found that very frustrating, especially since the vast majority of missions try to inflict a false sense of urgency on you with your crew or npcs screaming to hurry up or they'll die.  Most missions feel like they have a time limit (even though they don't) so it's jarring to stop and just run in circles looking for crap.  However, there is the saving grace that if you miss something you might be able to buy it afterwards from the spectre terminal, including those dog tags, so long as you don't complete the next priority mission.  It's sort of like a second chance except that they don't bother telling you it exists...

Jack shows up in the mission where you have to protect the group of biotic students from Grissom(?) Academy from Cerberus and where you can meet the autistic guy from the Project: Overlord DLC

I did that but without an ME2 save you don't get Jack.  DOUBLE ENTENDRE PUN!  And by don't get I mean she doesn't exist at all and never shows up, I know she doesn't join the crew either way.

[Riggswolfe]

So, I replayed the end game citadel stuff last night and this time I chose the Destroy the Reapers no matter what it does to the Geth and Edi ending. I also got the Shepard breathing clip. I'm relatively satisfied with this ending and I've read some stuff on the forums that leads me to believe more and more that this is the only real ending.

 Something I hadn't thought about before was the dream sequences. The final one has Shepard standing next to the boy and burning with him. Somebody on the forums took this to mean that the boy is dangerous and misleading and that both the synthesis and control endings are nothing but lies. I also noticed that if you do the destroy ending it's the only one where Shepard acts like...well, Shepard. As he shoots he sort of straightens and gets this real determined look on his face like you're used to seeing when he pulls off something very important. His posture, his facial expression, all of it is exactly what you're used to seeing with Shepard rather than the slumped, defeated look he has up until that point.

Maybe I'm just justifying it in my head but this ending is one I can live with. Especially as it feels like the one the game was really building too the whole time. I have a hard time believing that TIM was right and Anderson was wrong. And Synthesis feels too much like giving the Reapers exactly what they want.

That, and really, fuck the God Child. He wants me to merge or control? I'm going to destroy. I was sent to stop the reapers not get touchy feely with them.