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Author Topic: The death of football  (Read 19860 times)
Nebu
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Reply #175 on: November 14, 2013, 08:41:08 AM

Has anyone mentioned League of Denial yet?

Worth a read if you're interested in this topic.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
ghost
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Reply #176 on: November 14, 2013, 08:43:40 AM

Yeah, I haven't read it.  I'm very, very surprised that the players union settled for such a paltry amount, however.  The evidence seems pretty clear that the NFL completely covered up risk and had a significant legal exposure over the repetitive head trauma issue.
Paelos
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Reply #177 on: November 14, 2013, 08:48:35 AM

My lawyer friend was saying that the legal team in charge of that case should be disbarred for settling for what they did.

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ghost
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Reply #178 on: November 14, 2013, 08:54:09 AM

Well, it's a bit of a "bite the hand that feeds you" situation.  The players association could have completely blasted the NFL into oblivion, sure, but I'm sure that current players were not too keen on that prospect for obvious reasons.  And there are still a lot of former players that continue to have a stream of income related to their football days, be it through broadcasting or other general fame related income.  So now that I think about it, it isn't that surprising really.  I would almost guarantee there was significant infighting about how to approach it and the attorneys were probably just doing their job.  There's just no way they were that incompetent.
shiznitz
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Reply #179 on: November 14, 2013, 09:13:16 AM

Wow.  Pop Warner football has reported a 10% drop in participation from 2010 to 2012....


Give it 10 years and it may be half, or less, if the significant injuries keep getting publicized. 

It doesn't surprise me given the anecdotal evidence from my town.  Football has a tough time attracting kids compared to lacrosse and soccer.  My 5'6" 115lb 11-yr old doesn't want to play football because he has heard so much about concussions.  It is not just the moms saying no.

I have never played WoW.
ghost
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Reply #180 on: November 14, 2013, 09:17:18 AM

Shit, when I was a kid all I had to do was look at the 250 pound fatass that would be tackling me to know that it wasn't going to work.   why so serious?
Paelos
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Reply #181 on: November 14, 2013, 11:12:05 AM

I played football in 4th grade, and I just hated constantly getting yelled at for no reason. For some reason all football coaches seem to think the only way to coach is by screaming.

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ghost
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Reply #182 on: November 14, 2013, 11:13:11 AM

It's the only way they can talk.  I had our football coach in our drivers' ed class in high school.  He screamed even when he was whispering.
Rasix
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Reply #183 on: November 14, 2013, 11:16:08 AM

All of my friends that played pop warner didn't do for more than a year. The coaches were really abusive.

That's part of the reason my gigantic nephew won't play (he weighs more than me, and he's 10(11? dunno)).  The other being that they'll place him by size. Which means that a kid that isn't in middle school yet, would be placed with kids 2-3 years older than him.  That's a massive leap in maturity that he's not ready for.  Kid is a hell of an athlete for his size, but he'd rather play basketball at the moment.

-Rasix
Paelos
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Reply #184 on: November 14, 2013, 12:56:13 PM

Yeah if anything can fix football, for me it would start with the coaches and the ridiculous military mentality that permeates the sports.

Football is not a war.

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Malakili
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Reply #185 on: November 14, 2013, 02:20:22 PM

Meanwhile:

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/9976227/mo-football-player-dies-2-weeks-injury

Quote
A Missouri high school football player who has been hospitalized with a brain injury since an October playoff game died Thursday, according to the school district's superintendent.

 cry

Seriously terrible stuff.
Paelos
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Reply #186 on: November 14, 2013, 02:29:25 PM

Something's wrong with that story.

Quote
Officials have not said how Stover was injured. Jarvis said last week he couldn't discuss details of the injury but described it as "very serious."

Quote
Jason West, spokesman for the Missouri State High School Activities Association, said the association had been made aware of Stover's injury and death, but he was uncertain how Stover was injured. "We do know the game was halted at that time," West said.

Was the game halted when the injury happened? Was the game halted after? Why are there no details on what happened?

I think we need more information. Still, nobody in high school should die on the field.

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Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Ingmar
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Reply #187 on: November 14, 2013, 02:32:30 PM

Almost certainly means they halted the game after he got hurt.

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shiznitz
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Reply #188 on: November 19, 2013, 08:59:49 AM

Yeah if anything can fix football, for me it would start with the coaches and the ridiculous military mentality that permeates the sports.

Football is not a war.

Not literally of course, but it requires incredible intensity for short periods of time over a long period of time.  Love and cuddles won't help.

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ghost
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Reply #189 on: November 19, 2013, 09:04:30 AM

The only thing that will fix football is to get everyone off of the drugs that they are taking to get so goddamned huge and fast.   A 320 pound lineman travelling at light speed to tackle a 225 pound running back is eventually going to cause trouble. 

I read an interesting opinion at one point that suggested that repetitive head trauma would be almost eliminated if we stopped using helmets.  The logic of this makes sense, although I'm sure that more superficial injuries would increase.  They seem to be able to pull it off in rugby though.
Sir T
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Reply #190 on: November 19, 2013, 09:06:04 AM

Just watching a game and 2 guys shouldered themselves in celebration after a touch down, just jumping up and touching shoulders. And the commentator said "Someday someone is going to get hurt doing that." I don't know whether to  awesome, for real or  ACK!.

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Reply #191 on: November 19, 2013, 10:46:18 AM

I read an interesting opinion at one point that suggested that repetitive head trauma would be almost eliminated if we stopped using helmets.  The logic of this makes sense, although I'm sure that more superficial injuries would increase.  They seem to be able to pull it off in rugby though.

Yeah, you don't see a lot of crying in rugby about head injuries. Motherfuckers be BLEEDING and shit, keep playing.

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Reply #192 on: November 19, 2013, 10:47:09 AM

Several pages ago I linked a study that showed that rugby has just as many/more problems as American football.

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ghost
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Reply #193 on: November 19, 2013, 10:47:37 AM

Well, I also don't think you see a lot of serious head or neck injuries in the sport.  I don't keep up with it much though.  Figure we'd hear about people dying though.
ghost
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Reply #194 on: November 19, 2013, 10:53:17 AM

Several pages ago I linked a study that showed that rugby has just as many/more problems as American football.

You have to figure it would keep people from leading with their head to tackle, though, and there is no scrum in American football, unlike in Rugby.  They're really different beasts even though they have similar violence levels.
Nebu
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Reply #195 on: November 19, 2013, 11:11:19 AM

Several pages ago I linked a study that showed that rugby has just as many/more problems as American football.

Imagine what you'd see in the NFL if players wore no helmets/pads.  People died regularly playing football in the era before helmets and they were nowhere near the speed and strength of today's pro players.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
ghost
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Reply #196 on: November 19, 2013, 11:20:50 AM

Imagine what you'd see in the NFL if players wore no helmets/pads.  People died regularly playing football in the era before helmets and they were nowhere near the speed and strength of today's pro players.

Really?  I'm looking at this list and wonder how much of that is due to improvements in modern medicine/imaging, etc. and not necessarily because of the pads and helmet. 
Nebu
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Reply #197 on: November 19, 2013, 11:34:10 AM

According to that list, very few rugby players have died due to a game/practice injury. 

I think it may be an issue of record keeping.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sir T
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Reply #198 on: November 19, 2013, 11:36:03 AM

You would need a helmet like Batman's "not head turning" helmet to truly protect the head and neck in American football, lets be honest.

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ghost
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Reply #199 on: November 19, 2013, 11:36:33 AM

Yeah, who knows if it's completely inclusive. 
Chimpy
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Reply #200 on: November 20, 2013, 04:34:30 PM

Rugby has some very very strict rules on what constitutes legal tackles. And a large portion of the yellow cards I saw given out during the few years I watched rugby regularly were for illegal tackles.

Though I think Football could probably use a Yellow/Red card regime as well as the Sin Bin and be a better sport for it :)

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Bann
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Reply #201 on: November 20, 2013, 08:13:35 PM

RE: Football coaches - I played a bunch of sports growing up. My dad coached many of them. He did seem to have to use the whistle and yell alot more during football season, but I think one of the reasons football coaches yell all the time is the amount of kids is usually like 3 to 4 times the amount of a baseball or basketball team.
Surlyboi
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Reply #202 on: November 21, 2013, 10:51:38 PM

Anecdotal, I know, but my hockey coach yelled a lot.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Nebu
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Reply #203 on: November 22, 2013, 09:28:25 AM

The amount of abuse I took as a player was worst in high school.  College coaches, while reminding you daily that you are an expendable piece of meat, still treated me better than my high school coach. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Ingmar
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Reply #204 on: November 22, 2013, 11:49:05 AM

Anecdotal, I know, but my hockey coach yelled a lot.

As does my sensei (although he's nice about it). Also many of the band directors and orchestra conductors I've played under - especially the orchestra guys. In particular the more famous the conductor the more abusive/nasty they can be it seems like. It isn't really a special football thing, its just a 'dealing with a large group of people that aren't doing exactly what you want is stressful and causes some people to snap' thing. The extra stressor on football coaches beyond some of the others is that they're probably faster to get fired I guess.

Probably also a side of 'you have to yell just to be heard', what with the helmets and number of people and noise and distance.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 11:51:42 AM by Ingmar »

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Surlyboi
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Reply #205 on: November 23, 2013, 03:33:13 PM

All of my senseis yelled. Thanks for the reminder.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Khaldun
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Reply #206 on: December 06, 2013, 10:36:06 AM

We thought about doing family martial arts recently but the guy who ran the studio: a) went on a long thing about Krav Maga and the Mossad and how bad Muslim terrorists were and then b) yelled his fucking head off constantly at a bunch of 12-year olds taking a class and explained it was important for "discipline". No thanks. I had enough of that shit in team sports in high school. It's not necessary. I've seen teams in most sports that are brutally effective and coordinated with coaches that treat the players as grown-ups.
ghost
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Reply #207 on: December 06, 2013, 10:41:54 AM

I took kempo from a guy for a while in college.  He was intense.  He never yelled at me, but was obviously of the violent stereotype.  I wasn't into it.
ghost
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Reply #208 on: January 29, 2014, 10:43:04 AM

Welcome to the money train.  These lawsuits are going to start coming in droves, I think. 

Expect to see significant changes to the way football is played in the next 10-15 years.  It seems likely that kickoff and punt returns will be nixed at a minimum. 
HaemishM
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Reply #209 on: August 31, 2015, 01:47:36 PM

NECRO!

So apparently there's a new movie coming out starring Will Smith about the discovery of CTE and the NFL's attempts to cover it up. It's a biopic so we're probably going to have to take some of it with a grain of salt. Still -

Article about the film and trailer.

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