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Author Topic: The death of football  (Read 72025 times)
ghost
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Reply #140 on: July 30, 2012, 12:17:18 PM

Yeah, although frankly the sample sizes involved are pretty small. I'm pretty sure the whole issue can't be considered conclusive either way yet.

I'm not sure that the outcome of suicide is even all that relevant to the situation, considering that there has been documented brain changes from repetitive head trauma.  There could be increased depression and cognitive problems from this trauma that isn't expressed by suicide increases.  This isn't a "no blood, no foul" situation, in my mind.  
Segoris
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Reply #141 on: July 30, 2012, 03:43:20 PM


While true, and completely obvious to anyone who's ever played, I'd figure that documentation or some sort of proof of head injury might be important to link his incredibly short career to an NFL lawsuit.
ghost
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Reply #142 on: August 26, 2012, 08:45:17 AM

ESPN's got an interesting article up about the imPACT company's neurological testing products for detecting concussions in football players.  I don't think that imPACT will count this one as positive marketing.

Quote
Yet a study -- really a study of studies -- published last year in Current Sports Medicine Reports reviewed the entire span of research on ImPACT and concluded: "[T]he false positive rate appears to be 30 percent to 40 percent of subjects of ImPACT … the false negative rate may be comparable. … The use of baseline neuropsychological testing … is not likely to diminish risk, and to the extent that there is a risk associated with 'premature' return-to-play … may even increase that risk."

I had never even heard of imPACT, but apparently it's a big deal.

Quote
ImPACT, the maker of the world's most popular concussion evaluation system, offers a 20-minute computerized test that players can take via software or online to measure verbal and visual memory, processing speed, reaction time and impulse control. The idea behind ImPACT (Immediate Post-Concussion Assessment and Cognitive Testing) and similar batteries is that doctors or athletic trainers can give a baseline test to a healthy athlete, conduct follow-up tests after an injury and then compare the results to help figure out when it's OK to return the athlete to play. Selling itself as "Valid. Reliable. Safe," ImPACT dominates the testing market and has spread throughout the sports world: Most NFL clubs use the test, as do all MLB, MLS and NHL clubs, the national associations for boxing, hockey and soccer in the U.S., and nine auto racing circuits.

Go figure that there are a lot of undisclosed conflicts of interest in research that has been published on the matter.  Science becomes a cesspool when people stand to make money.   
ghost
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Reply #143 on: September 05, 2012, 05:10:47 PM

More fuel to the fire.......

This thing is going to continue to be a thorn in the side of the NFL for a long while. 
HaemishM
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Reply #144 on: September 06, 2012, 08:19:02 AM

Le ouch.

Paelos
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Reply #145 on: September 06, 2012, 08:29:37 AM

Just like the only thing that could bring down WoW is WoW's mismanagement, the only thing that can bring down the NFL is the mismanagement of this particular issue.

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Ingmar
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Reply #146 on: January 10, 2013, 04:33:20 PM

Awaken:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8830344/study-junior-seau-brain-shows-chronic-brain-damage-found-other-nfl-football-players

Correlation isn't causation, of course, but I don't think anyone is surprised by this discovery.

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Margalis
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Reply #147 on: January 12, 2013, 06:09:12 PM

Just like the only thing that could bring down WoW is WoW's mismanagement, the only thing that can bring down the NFL is the mismanagement of this particular issue.

Management of the problem can make it look like less of a problem but the problem itself is fundamental. Football is a sport where dudes bash the shit out of each other. That there are severe negative health consequences is as shocking as one day discovering that feeding people to lions is bad for people.

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ghost
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Reply #148 on: October 30, 2013, 09:32:12 AM

Sounds like prep football players are at high risk for brain injuries.  This should get buried pretty quickly.  There's no way my kids are playing football though.  Not only are they tiny, the risks are just too great.  

Quote
A panel of medical experts convened by the National Academy of Sciences analyzed a series of academic studies, with the most recent showing that college football players suffer concussions at a rate of 6.3 concussions per 1,000 "athletic exposures" -- each exposure representing a practice or game. For high school football players, the comparable figure is 11.2.

And, importantly....

Quote
However, the report authors concluded that there's no evidence that even the latest helmet technology prevents brain injury -- challenging a notion held by many parents and coaches.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 09:34:49 AM by ghost »
sickrubik
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Reply #149 on: October 30, 2013, 09:39:38 AM

"pfffft.. players know what they are getting into!"

Blergh. Yeah, I don't know if I could let me kids play either.

beer geek.
ghost
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Reply #150 on: October 30, 2013, 09:42:59 AM

I have a hard time with this, personally, because I absolutely love college football.  But I'm  considering stopping support of the sport because I just don't buy that it's safe.  That and I think school should be about studying and learning, not athletics.
Paelos
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Reply #151 on: October 30, 2013, 10:31:54 AM

Tons of people are saying that by not letting kids play, parents are condemning their kids to a life of obesity and not getting the benefit of team-building and discipline that football brings.

At which point I'm like, have they never heard of soccer? I played for 15 years and got all the benefits of a team and getting off my ass without the brain injuries.

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Trippy
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Reply #152 on: October 30, 2013, 10:37:25 AM

Did you ever head the ball? And did ever see that study that Olympic soccer players had diminished cognitive abilities compared to other Olympic athletes? awesome, for real

Edit: ball not brain
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 10:53:29 AM by Trippy »
ghost
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Reply #153 on: October 30, 2013, 10:50:21 AM

Yeah, soccer isn't great either when it comes to head injuries. 

And the parents say that while giving their kid a Big Mac, large fries and a 64 ounce big gulp pepsi.
sickrubik
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Reply #154 on: October 30, 2013, 10:51:20 AM

Yeah, soccer isn't great either when it comes to head injuries. 

And the parents say that while giving their kid a Big Mac, large fries and a 64 ounce big gulp pepsi.

No no.. 64 ounce big gulp DIET pepsi. You have to make sure the kids are doing something healthy.

beer geek.
Ingmar
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Reply #155 on: October 30, 2013, 11:40:54 AM

Starting to make me feel iffy about getting smacked in the head all the time at kendo practice, too. Starting at age 39 probably means anything that happens to me will be too late to matter anyway I guess.  why so serious?

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Paelos
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Reply #156 on: October 30, 2013, 01:41:03 PM

Did you ever head the ball? And did ever see that study that Olympic soccer players had diminished cognitive abilities compared to other Olympic athletes? awesome, for real

Edit: ball not brain


I was a goalkeeper. If I took a shot to the head, it was in the face.

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WayAbvPar
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Reply #157 on: October 30, 2013, 01:46:24 PM

Worst facial save I ever made as a GK was from a tiny little woman (co-ed league). She was maybe 100 pounds, but one of the best players on their team. I had just made a diving save and only had time to get to my knees when she drilled the rebound right off my face from about 5 yards away. Knocked me goofy for a minute or so, but nothing a few beers after the game didn't solve  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? The worst part was it had just started to snow, so the ball was cold and wet.

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ghost
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Reply #158 on: October 30, 2013, 01:52:03 PM

Better a shot to the face than a shot to the nads.  Nasty business, that. 

Worst injury we had on any of my teams was a guy that had a really nasty skeletal fracture (nasal bones, bone deep in between his eyes and maxilla) from a collision during a corner kick.
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Reply #159 on: October 30, 2013, 03:57:28 PM

Did anyone else watch the FRONTLINE about the head injury stuff in regards to the NFL?

If you haven't, you should.

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ghost
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Reply #160 on: October 31, 2013, 06:43:25 AM

Anything groundbreaking in it, for those of us that don't have time to watch it?
Sjofn
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Reply #161 on: November 01, 2013, 10:50:29 AM

I somehow managed to never get drilled in the face with the ball when I was a keeper in soccer, and I'm not sure how. The times I remember getting smacked in the face, I was playing sweeper, and it was only like ... twice. Taking a ball to the tit during the fall when it was cold hurt way more, though. why so serious? Never saw any particularly bad injuries when I played, but my sister sort of broke a girl's arm in one of her games (she's a giantess like I am, and the tiny striker made the mistake of trying to body check her, and she bounced off my sister and landed wrong, if I remember right).

Still, soccer head injuries aside, Paelos is basically right (mark your calendars, I agree with Paelos!). Football is not the only goddamn team sport in the world, people.

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sickrubik
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Reply #162 on: November 01, 2013, 11:19:44 AM

Pfft.. whatever, commie.

beer geek.
ghost
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Reply #163 on: November 01, 2013, 06:04:11 PM

tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #164 on: November 02, 2013, 08:30:43 PM

Let's be clear: if it isn't not ruining someone's life, it's not a real sport.

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Sir T
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Reply #165 on: November 03, 2013, 07:44:04 PM

Tons of people are saying that by not letting kids play, parents are condemning their kids to a life of obesity and not getting the benefit of team-building and discipline that football brings.

At which point I'm like, have they never heard of soccer? I played for 15 years and got all the benefits of a team and getting off my ass without the brain injuries.

So they let their kids get bulked out with steroids instead? I mean we all know that if you want to make college football safe you have to shave off 100 pounds of raw steroid induced muscle from each of the guys slamming into one another.

Actually, my brother in law actually started weight training early this year, he won a newcomer competition, and his gym has started pressuring him into getting steroid injections. He told them no way.

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ghost
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Reply #166 on: November 04, 2013, 05:57:34 AM

It's pretty silly to assume that most of these kids that are gigantic and playing at a high level in high school aren't juicing.  Hell, even the basketball players are doing HgH.  You can't look at guys like LeBron James and Dwight Howard when they came out of high school and know that they're taking drugs.  People didn't look like that 30-40 years earlier and it's not just weight lifting. 
Nebu
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Reply #167 on: November 04, 2013, 08:15:17 AM

Better genetics, nutrition, and training all contribute to stronger and faster athletes.  I remember seeing guards at Nebraska that could run step-for-step with me as a defensive back and they were running 280-300 lbs.  It was terrifying. 

On topic, I am suffering the effects of football myself.  My short term memory is becoming frighteningly bad with age and I can't remember the last time I woke up without pain.  I had 6 diagnosed concussions in my first two years of college and there's no telling how many I had beyond that.  Football is a gladiator sport.  People relish watching humans get abused for their entertainment.

I honestly don't know what can be done.  It's about as safe as it can be made.

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Paelos
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Reply #168 on: November 04, 2013, 08:22:11 AM

The only way to win is not to play.

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ghost
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Reply #169 on: November 04, 2013, 08:38:40 AM

Better genetics, nutrition, and training all contribute to stronger and faster athletes.  I remember seeing guards at Nebraska that could run step-for-step with me as a defensive back and they were running 280-300 lbs.  It was terrifying. 


I'm sorry, but I just can't buy that.  There is absolutely no way that this trio of items can produce 300 pound linemen that run like sprinters in a period of 25 years or so.  It's not like this is the first time in human history that we've emphasized healthy eating and working out for athletic purposes. 
Nebu
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Reply #170 on: November 04, 2013, 09:33:10 AM

I'm sorry, but I just can't buy that.  There is absolutely no way that this trio of items can produce 300 pound linemen that run like sprinters in a period of 25 years or so.  It's not like this is the first time in human history that we've emphasized healthy eating and working out for athletic purposes.  

Large men with speed have always existed.  It wasn't until the last 30 years that they could make ridiculous money doing it.  

As far as steroids go, I'd bet that somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30% are juicing at the NFL level, but that's far from a majority.  Look at a kid like Michael Oher.  Where the hell was he going to get steroids in high school?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 09:48:25 AM by Nebu »

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HaemishM
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Reply #171 on: November 04, 2013, 09:38:01 AM

You also forget that most of our beef and probably other proteins are being injected with all sorts of growth hormones and other shit that does who knows what to developing bodies. Have you not see the size of teenage girls' breats these days?  this guy looks legit

Nebu
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Reply #172 on: November 04, 2013, 09:42:02 AM

You also forget that most of our beef and probably other proteins are being injected with all sorts of growth hormones and other shit that does who knows what to developing bodies. Have you not see the size of teenage girls' breats these days?  this guy looks legit

I teach college.  It's hard to not notice.  this guy looks legit


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
ghost
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Reply #173 on: November 04, 2013, 09:58:19 AM

You also forget that most of our beef and probably other proteins are being injected with all sorts of growth hormones and other shit that does who knows what to developing bodies. Have you not see the size of teenage girls' breats these days?  this guy looks legit

Heh.   awesome, for real

This is a good point though.
ghost
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Reply #174 on: November 14, 2013, 07:26:17 AM

Wow.  Pop Warner football has reported a 10% drop in participation from 2010 to 2012....


Give it 10 years and it may be half, or less, if the significant injuries keep getting publicized. 
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