Windows 8

[Pennilenko]

I installed Debian 6 on a VM today just to check out linux based on one of my instructor's recommendations, and I proved to myself how very little I actually know. It looks really complicated and daunting and all I did was start looking up how to get firefox on there instead of the browser package that it came with.

[calapine]

Some info from Paul Thurrott about the upcoming Windows 8.1 new "features":

• The evolutionary new UI concepts called "Startbutton" and "Boot-to-Desktop" will only be available for Enterprise- and Professional versions of Win 8.1
• Only the clickable button itself is coming back. A click on it will open the Metro-UI. There will be no startmenu.

MS sucks, that's all I have to say.

Fuck.  So did we ever come to a consensus on what flavour of linux is currently the best, at least for developers and IT people doing work?

openSuse

<shamwow>It's german. You know the Germans always make good stuff! </shamwow>

[Salamok]

I installed Debian 6 on a VM today just to check out linux based on one of my instructor's recommendations, and I proved to myself how very little I actually know. It looks really complicated and daunting and all I did was start looking up how to get firefox on there instead of the browser package that it came with.

Debian is more of a server distro, when trying to install software on linux the first thing you should do is go into the package manager and search for it.  If it is there it is just a 1 click install/uninstall, things aren't quite as easy if it isn't there or you want a newer version than what is in the package manager.

[Yegolev]

I happen to think RedHat is better, but I base that mostly on my dislike of yast.  I probably haven't been made aware of a similar shitbomb on RH.

[Phred]

Meh, Red Hat is raising their rates to the cloud providers which is going to cause some serious backlash.  http://gigaom.com/2012/06/01/red-hat-dilemma-cloud-players-balk-at-new-support-fees/

Just to give you perspective they want to triple our rate for the 1 server we are using. We are probably just going to roll a centos machine and migrate the stuff over.

Just curious but why CentOS rather than Debian. I've been out of the unix biz for 10years but when I was building enterprise mail servers I found Debian way easier to deal with than Redhat.

[MahrinSkel]

Because CentOS is just recompiled Red Hat source, that can't mention that fact without getting sued.

--Dave

[Chimpy]

Because CentOS is just recompiled Red Hat source, that can't mention that fact without getting sued.

--Dave

I have always found that they are pretty clear in stating the fact that they are RHEL recompiled with all of the trademarked/copyrighted information (logos etc) removed.

[MahrinSkel]

Now even their statement of what they are doesn't mention Red Hat:

Purpose of CentOS

CentOS exists to provide a free enterprise class computing platform to anyone who wishes to use it. CentOS 2, 3, and 4 are built from publically available open source SRPMS provided by a prominent North American Enterprise Linux vendor. CentOS conforms fully with the upstream vendors redistribution policies and aims to be 100% binary compatible. (CentOS mainly changes packages to remove upstream vendor branding and artwork.). CentOS is designed for people who need an enterprise class OS without the cost or support of the prominent North American Enterprise Linux vendor.

Neither the CentOS Project (we who build CentOS) nor any version of CentOS is affiliated with, produced by, or supported by the prominent North American Enterprise Linux vendor. Neither does our software contain the upstream vendor's product ... although it is built from the same open source SRPMS as the upstream enterprise products.

--Dave

[Chimpy]

They must have changed that within the last few months. The last time I grabbed CentOS it still mentioned RedHat.

[Hammond]

Like MahrinSkel said its recompiled RedHat. It works well in the enterprise market because it is pretty stable and they avoid the bleeding edge stuff that gets pushed into Ubuntu. I have built and supported both Debian and CentOS and they are both about the same from building / supporting. Certain software packages like one or the other so I typically go the OS direction that best supports whatever I am going to install on it.

[ghost]

They must have changed that within the last few months. The last time I grabbed CentOS it still mentioned RedHat.

It still does, as of today.

CentOS is an Enterprise Linux distribution based on a rebuild of the freely available sources from Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

[schild]

When a version of Windows ends up being shit, isn't the first goal to milk the last good version for as long as possible? I'll be using Windows 7 until Windows 10 most likely, I guess.

[ghost]

You'll probably want to go for 9 and skip 10, if the pattern olds.

[Paelos]

When a version of Windows ends up being shit, isn't the first goal to milk the last good version for as long as possible? I'll be using Windows 7 until Windows 10 most likely, I guess.

Yep. Windows 7 isn't even that old.

[Pennilenko]

Yep. Windows 7 isn't even that old.

4 years old.

[Ironwood]

When a version of Windows ends up being shit, isn't the first goal to milk the last good version for as long as possible? I'll be using Windows 7 until Windows 10 most likely, I guess.

I'd need a really, really compelling reason to move from 7.  Like, REALLY.

[Phred]

When a version of Windows ends up being shit, isn't the first goal to milk the last good version for as long as possible? I'll be using Windows 7 until Windows 10 most likely, I guess.

I don't see the point of upgrading as often as Microsoft wants anyway. I went from 98 to 2000 to xp and now to 7. Why shell out money if your os is doing the jobs you want just fine? I still see new games releasing that only support dx9 so that failed to be the hook they needed to force upgrades.

[Numtini]

Windows 7 is fine. For that matter, other than DX for gaming, I can't think of a single reason to upgrade from XP other than to add more memory than 3gb.

[Tebonas]

The change from 32 to 64bit, because 64bit XP was an atrocity and Windows 7 64bit just works.

[Quinton]

I stuck with 2K for a long time, until lack of driver support for more modern hardware and really painful installs drove me to XP.  I skipped Vista and moved to Win7 a few years later when 64bit support and another round of driver/hardware refresh was needed.  No desire to deal with Win8.  My main need for having a Windows box around is PC gaming... keep hoping the Windows requirement will eventually go away...

[Paelos]

Yep. Windows 7 isn't even that old.

4 years old.

Sounds older than it is, since jack and shit have been done to advance PCs in that time frame.

[Ingmar]

So we bought a Surface to fuck around with at work and I have to say, once you get used to the interface a bit it is pretty damn slick.

[Fabricated]

One of my co-workers bought a surface pro and brought it in. It's pretty neat until you look at the price and realize you could've just bought an equivalent or better ultrabook.

[Stormwaltz]

The change from 32 to 64bit, because 64bit XP was an atrocity and Windows 7 64bit just works.

*holds up a sad, lonely Vista-64 flag*

It worked fine by the time I bought it. Honest. I haven't even bothered to install my Win7 upgrade.

[Pennilenko]

I moved windows 8 off my secondary hard drive and made it my primary operating system.  I've learned all of the tweaks I needed to make the start screen more useful to myself.  After using it for a while, I feel silly for calling it a steaming pile of poop. It runs smooth and is pretty slick.  The games that I play run better.  It also manages 8 cores better than windows 7 did.

Please don't stone me.

[ghost]

I had in on my office computer for a time until it crapped out on me with some master boot record issue (too much porn, I suppose).  I found it to be very stable and fast, otherwise.  My only complaint is that it is a real drag to be working in the "desktop" mode and get booted to the start screen, and vice versa.  If you could configure the system to not take you to the desktop when you want to use Chrome or a game or what have you (and it seems as though that would be very easy to achieve) then it would be pretty damned awesome and a better fix than glomming a start button on.

[Ingmar]

The change from 32 to 64bit, because 64bit XP was an atrocity and Windows 7 64bit just works.

*holds up a sad, lonely Vista-64 flag*

It worked fine by the time I bought it. Honest. I haven't even bothered to install my Win7 upgrade.

Vista's problems - while not imaginary - were pretty wildly overstated.

[Salamok]

For me 75% of Vista's problems were software compatibility issues and the only thing that was going to fix that was time.  If Windows 7 had been released in Vista's place it might have been slightly better but I think it would have gotten a reception similar to what Vista had.

[Selby]

For me 75% of Vista's problems were software compatibility issues and the only thing that was going to fix that was time.

I agree.  I disliked some of the UI changes they made and am angry at the loss of DOS-based gaming that I had on XP - hence my Vista laptop only gets used on trips for surfing and my main home machine is still XP (12 years and counting).

[luckton]

I agree.  I disliked some of the UI changes they made and am angry at the loss of DOS-based gaming that I had on XP - hence my Vista laptop only gets used on trips for surfing and my main home machine is still XP (12 years and counting).

DOSBox much?

[Selby]

DOSBox much?

Sure, but just clicking the shortcut icon and having it run fine was nice.

[Phred]

The change from 32 to 64bit, because 64bit XP was an atrocity and Windows 7 64bit just works.

Was XP64 so awful or were the drivers just shit? I had heard that Microsoft got a very lackluster buyin from the hardware dudes initially with XP64.

[Raph]

One of my co-workers bought a surface pro and brought it in. It's pretty neat until you look at the price and realize you could've just bought an equivalent or better ultrabook.

I have specific requirements, and they included a Wacom active digitizer. No Ultrabooks with that. :)

Here's my blog post on why I picked the Samsung Smart PC Pro instead of the Surface Pro: http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/03/19/windows-8-tablet-part-one/

[Raph]

I had in on my office computer for a time until it crapped out on me with some master boot record issue (too much porn, I suppose).  I found it to be very stable and fast, otherwise.  My only complaint is that it is a real drag to be working in the "desktop" mode and get booted to the start screen, and vice versa.  If you could configure the system to not take you to the desktop when you want to use Chrome or a game or what have you (and it seems as though that would be very easy to achieve) then it would be pretty damned awesome and a better fix than glomming a start button on.

ModernMix. Runs Metro apps in a window. Also lets you actually exit them, even while in Metro.

http://www.stardock.com/products/modernmix/

I still glommed a Start button on with Start8, though.

[Salamok]

When a version of Windows ends up being shit, isn't the first goal to milk the last good version for as long as possible? I'll be using Windows 7 until Windows 10 most likely, I guess.

I'd need a really, really compelling reason to move from 7.  Like, REALLY.

And you will get one, as soon as Microsoft is done releasing the version intended to burn everyone's Software Assurance upgrade.