Whitney Houston has died

[Paelos]

Because I spend far too much time reading this forum and would prefer to think that the people I'm sharing that time with aren't all dickbags?

You need to be clutching your pearls when you make a statement like that.

[apocrypha]

Actually it matters because drug policies are, like all policy, partly susceptible to public pressure. If the majority of people just accept the media line and blame the user then you end up with, well, you end up with the kind of policies we have now in the US and UK and many other places.

And those polices are working really well aren't they?

There's also, IMO, a point that needs to be made every time we have one of these celebrity death threads which is how badly the fame industry fucks people up. Fabulous wealth, constant adulation, unrelenting intense media attention - it looks kinda like those things are just too much for some people to handle. And while I certainly think that any problems are a damn sight easier to deal with from the comfort of a multi-million dollar mansion surrounded by flunkies than from the worst poverty our countries can offer I do think it's tragic and disgusting that our fame industry chews up and spits out so many talented people, year after year.

I wasn't a fan of Whitney Houston, in fact quite the opposite, but the fact that she's dead at such a young age from (probably) such avoidable and preventable causes is very sad and IMO if you have no space in you for sympathy for anyone in that situation then you're probably not someone I'd want to be friends with IRL.

[Tebonas]

What kills me is the hypocrisy of it all.

People die of drug abuse in the streets every day and people don't give a fuck. But when a celebrity dies everyone is supposed to be gushing about it.

Everybody being indignant about people don't paying proper respect to Whitney Houston dying better be equally heartbroken about the Hobo down the street. Apart from the people who liked her music she was equally important to society.

It sad that she died. Because its always sad when people die. She really isn't worthy subject about how drugs kill people, because in the entertainment industry thats almost an occupational hazard anyway. Maybe we could talk about the institutionalized abuse of drugs there in another thread, because it certainly seems to be widespread enough to maybe be a systematic problem.

Edit: Preferably in politics because its destined to head there anyway.

[Cyrrex]

I sorta agree with what you are saying about the hypocrisy, because I am feeling that a bit as well.  But the difference, of course, is that we think we know people in the media, so it is easier for us to relate to them.  We believe we know something of who she was and what she went through (we really do not, of course).  We know nothing about the hobo down the street, so what happens to him doesn't matter, right?

Bah, I don't know.  Whitney said it best herself.  Crack is whack.

[Ingmar]

It sad that she died. Because its always sad when people die.

Agreed. As for the rest of your post, you're reading an awful lot into posts in this thread that just wasn't there.

[Tebonas]

It was more like a general observation, as in "We as a society" more than "We as f13".

[01101010]

I wasn't a fan of Whitney Houston, in fact quite the opposite, but the fact that she's dead at such a young age from (probably) such avoidable and preventable causes is very sad and IMO if you have no space in you for sympathy for anyone in that situation then you're probably not someone I'd want to be friends with IRL.

This is pretty much it. The fact this was by and large self-inflicted. Granted, addiction and abuse can get out of control and take on a beast of its own; but it is not like she did not have the resources to combat it. Old age, yeah we expect people to cash out from that - that is inevitable.

[Sir T]

I have to admit my first thought was "I wonder how long they will have her in the freezer while everyone involved does chat shows talking about how much they loved her and haggle over the tv rights of the funeral."

[Cyrrex]

I think this story will die out relatively quickly...if for no other reason than nobody was really surprised by it, and she was considered somewhat of a laughing stock for the last 15 years or so.  While tragic in its own way, it won't measure up to other major celeb deaths.  Had it happened 15 years ago (or whatever), she would be getting the full MJ treatment, maybe even moreso.

That isn't meant as a commentary on what I think is more or less tragic, just a prediction of how I think the media will soon move on to other things.  See Winehouse, Amy.

[Sir T]

Yeah, but Micheal Jackson was a figure of fun for well over a decade as well and there was a huge deal made about him.

[shiznitz]

Just because someone dies and it makes someone sad does not make it tragic.  This was no tragedy.  A famous person took too many narcotics and didn't wake up.  King Lear or Macbeth this is not.

I despise the overuse of "tragic" in the news.  I know the definition has morphed from the purely dramatic use that I referenced with Shakespeare, but even the newer definition of "distressing" does not even apply.  That definition would fit "6 year old falls down well while mother works 3 jobs" or "soldier who regained the use of his legs after a war injury dies in freak lightning strike".

If Whitney was clean and sober, her career reviving, and then some sordid leftover event from her past surfaced to sabotage her comeback, ending in her death - THAT would be tragic. 

[Paelos]

Just because someone dies and it makes someone sad does not make it tragic.  This was no tragedy.  A famous person took too many narcotics and didn't wake up.  King Lear or Macbeth this is not.

I despise the overuse of "tragic" in the news.  I know the definition has morphed from the purely dramatic use that I referenced with Shakespeare, but even the newer definition of "distressing" does not even apply.  That definition would fit "6 year old falls down well while mother works 3 jobs" or "soldier who regained the use of his legs after a war injury dies in freak lightning strike".

If Whitney was clean and sober, her career reviving, and then some sordid leftover event from her past surfaced to sabotage her comeback, ending in her death - THAT would be tragic. 

I agree with all of that. The overuse of "tragic" when anyone dies is extremely annoying to me as well.

[Chimpy]

Tragic by classical definition actually fits her more than some. Tragedy is the bringing low of the mighty through their hubris.

[ghost]

I think it's sad/tragic anytime someone let's their lives be ruined by drugs.

[apocrypha]

Yeah but that's just lol media.

Just like every time there's a whiff of snow in the UK every single newspaper uses the phrase "TRAVEL CHAOS!" without fail. Every single celebrity death is tragic because there isn't anything more hyperbolic for them to use.

[Ironwood]

With fucking Scotrail, sneezes cause travel chaos.

[HaemishM]

Just because someone has money doesn't necessarily make things any easier.

It sure can help get into fancy rehab establishments instead of waiting for the court order shrink to decide whether to send you to prison or rehab hell.

The tragedy in Whitney Houston's life started a long time ago. Her death was just the sadly inevitable end to a series of bad decisions and bad relationships. I also find it hard to feel all that torn up about her death when I see the media feeding frenzy that is accompanying it. I felt the same way about Michael Jackson's death.

I am proud to be a dickbag. It's not like I'm walking into her funeral and pissing on her grave. I'm just finding it hard to feel all that broken up about it. People die.

[shiznitz]

And drug addicts die sooner.

[Sky]

With fucking Scotrail, sneezes cause travel chaos.

For just a wee island with a couple millennia headstart, you guys have a hard time getting your shit together, yeah?

Also, free my people!

People die.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsT2akkI4lc

[Velorath]

I am proud to be a dickbag. It's not like I'm walking into her funeral and pissing on her grave. I'm just finding it hard to feel all that broken up about it. People die.

I get that, I just don't get why some people don't just leave it at that and instead have to make sure we all know that they don't care that someone died.  It's like an "I'm a callous dickbag" attention grab or something.

[RhyssaFireheart]

I am proud to be a dickbag. It's not like I'm walking into her funeral and pissing on her grave. I'm just finding it hard to feel all that broken up about it. People die.

I get that, I just don't get why some people don't just leave it at that and instead have to make sure we all know that they don't care that someone died.  It's like an "I'm a callous dickbag" attention grab or something.

Part of it could be an attempt to mitigate the overwhelming love fest that goes on whenever a celebrity dies.  The constant news coverage of talking heads/execs/realfolkz/whomever going on and on about what a tragedy it was celeb died and how fantastic/marvelous/terrific they were and they were so influencial/respected/loved/imitated whatever.  The 24/7 news cycle just ruins any sense of.. real drama.. over something like this, IMO, with the constant coverage every second.  I thought she was good back in the 80s/90s, grew out of listening to her and didn't think much about her except for hearing about the drug issues.  She was a great singer, but I'm not wailing and beating my fists on the ground over her death like so many people seem to be.  And honestly, I rolled my eyes when I heard 20/20 was having a special 2 hour show in Friday night to celebrate her life or something.  Really?  Like they are going to come up with something new and original as compared to the entire week of weeping and wailing that's already gone on by then?

[lamaros]

Yeah, why would you have a retrospective on a prominent artist after they have died, it makes no sense at all!

Also, funerals? WTF are they for?! Get over it everyone!

 

[RhyssaFireheart]

Yeah, why would you have a retrospective on a prominent artist after they have died, it makes no sense at all!

Also, funerals? WTF are they for?! Get over it everyone!

 

Because that's not what I said.  There have been multiple reviews/recaps/histories about her already and I'm sure there'll be far more the remainder of the week on all the news channels.  Everyone in the media has to get their 2c in, no matter what.  As long as there isn't live coverage of the funeral, I'll be fine, because that to me really is taking it too far.  Funerals should be private affairs with family, have a memorial after the fact or something.

[CmdrSlack]

What is clear to me about all of this is that a heavy drug habit pretty much cut her career short. She didn't have the "freak in a bubble" appeal of MJ, so we're left with what we currently have.

Having lost several friends to ODs and whatnot, I can absolutely say that I wish we wouldn't put so much emphasis on famous junkies. At least Wm. S. Burroughs had the common decency to own his issues, I guess.

Let's face it. When people that others idolize die, those people get sad. Apparently, Whitney Houston still has some of those followers. The media is, of course, trying to fill their 24 hour news cycle.

When Ron Santo died, I cried. It sucked, and I was unhappy about it. We all have our heroes. That doesn't diminish the tragedy of random people dying, but they're outside our individual monkeyspheres, so we are less inclined to give a  fuck, or to even know about it.

[Ingmar]

And further, unless one of *us* dies, the only shared experience we're going to have as a forum with regard to this sort of thing is figures we're all familiar with - celebrities, game designers, etc. So it is pretty natural that we get 'x celebrity died' threads and not 'a homeless man died in the street today' threads.

[CmdrSlack]

Moreover, I submit the erudite works of Lee Ving:

I've seen an old man have a heart attack in Manhattan.
Well he just died while we just stood there lookin' at him.
Ain't he cute?

[Merusk]

Death is not a tragedy, death is a part of life.  We simply live in fear of it and call it a loss because of our desperate attempts to distance ourselves from it.

Is there loss? Sure, of course, but it's transitory and that's what really freaks us the fuck out and scares us.  It reinforces the fact that we're all meaningless.

[Abagadro]

Can't believe that fat tub Christie ordered flags flown at half staff. I mean, come on, really?

[Miasma]

Presidents, national tragedies, crackheads (so long as they're famous and from New Jersey).  That doesn't cheapen it at all.  You should see what he has planned when snookie succumbs to whatever her dominant stv is.

[Mrbloodworth]

[Chimpy]

They are having a "vigil" at a funeral home in town for her. As far as I know she was never in Champaign in her entire life. And a couple of elected officials are going to speak at it.

God damn, this country is officially gone batshit.

Edit; she was here for a concert in 1991

[Sky]

Wow, Fear, Bathory, and the Butthole Surfers in the diva thread.

Awesome!

[Mrbloodworth]

\o/

Is now a good time to bring up Chuck Schuldiner?

[01101010]

\o/

Is now a good time to bring up Chuck Schuldiner?

You people and your cherished metal.

[Mrbloodworth]

Sorry. Singer, songwriter, musician, producer and creator of genre, who could not afford  his own Cancer surgery. VS. Some pop star with more money than sense who killed herself.