What's in a McNugget and other fun food facts

[apocrypha]

All this of course leads to the question - what the hell are we supposed to drink? And don't fucking say water...

Yes, I know everyone should drink (more) water.


I honestly think that the "healthiest" thing I drink on a regular basis is beer.

Tea. Without sugar. Coffee isn't too bad. Beer, juice, sodas, etc, all are fine in moderation although watch the calories. It's the lack of moderation thing that can make almost anything harmful.

Our bodies are remarkably good at repairing damage caused by unpleasant substances, just don't overload your repair mechanisms.

[ghost]

I don't agree with his recommendation to drink diet soda either, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the information that he presented is bad.  Juice is really not good for you.  That's a fact.

[Paelos]

Juice is really not good for you.  That's a fact.

Typically you're better off just eating an orange and drinking a glass of water.

[Merusk]

Fewer calories that way, too.

[ghost]

Juice is really not good for you.  That's a fact.

Typically you're better off just eating an orange and drinking a glass of water.

Absolutely.  The way that juices are made is just as bad as soft drinks.

[taolurker]

All this of course leads to the question - what the hell are we supposed to drink? And don't fucking say water...

Yes, I know everyone should drink (more) water.


I honestly think that the "healthiest" thing I drink on a regular basis is beer.

I think is where the phrase everything in moderation comes in.. It's ok to have a beer occasionally, but that can be taken too far. This is also usually the case with sugar sweetened drinks of any kind, and small doses of a combination of all of them can't be as bad as 3 big gulps daily of soda or an 8 pack of beer.

Drinking water in between other drinks is something I've been recommended by a dentist, because it helps prevent the sugars from remaining in your mouth.

[rattran]

I think you should all drink chicken mcnugget slurry.

Or at least Liquid Chicken. It don't promote tooth decay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfSfK0AMWlc

[Ingmar]

Its better then that battery acid they call soft drinks.

It is less better than you think.....

I'm sorry. I do not believe any site that tells you to drink empty calories with no nutritional value ( Diet sodas ) over juice. No one should. I get the points about sugar content, and acidity. But ill stick to my juice. Thanks.

Diet sodas are not empty calories; they are NO calories. "Empty" calories are something else entirely.

[Mrbloodworth]

The following foods are often considered to contain mostly empty calories and may lead to weight gain:

    Sweets, candy, ice cream, soft drinks, fruit-flavored beverages and jellies with a low percentage of fruit, and other foods containing added sugar
    Refined grains, such as white bread or white rice
    Margarine or shortening
    Butter, lard, dripping and other saturated fat
    Beer, wine, and other alcoholic beverages
    High fat foods such as hamburgers, hot dogs, fried chicken, pizza, donuts, and French fries

an "empty calorie" has the same energy content as any other calorie but lacks many accompanying nutrients such as vitamins, dietary minerals, antioxidants, amino acids, or dietary fiber.

To qualify as a zero-calorie food or beverage, a product must provide 5 calories or fewer per serving.

[Ingmar]

Yes indeed. Now go look on the back of a can of Coke Zero and tell me how many calories it has. I'll wait. 

[Mrbloodworth]

Less than 5.

But I got your point.

[ghost]

I just don't see why it's such a big deal for people to drink water.  It's actually kind of refreshing.

[Mrbloodworth]

I do drink water ( Lots, after my stone ). I'm just not giving up my juice for diet sodas, as your link suggested.

[ghost]

I do drink water ( Lots, after my stone ). I'm just not giving up my juice for diet sodas, as your link suggested.

The point of the article was to show that juice is just as bad as sodas, which it is.  But you can read so I'm sure you understood that.

And, for the record, drinking diet coke all day is preferable to drinking regular coke or juice (unless you want to develop diabetes and weight 500 pounds), but you shouldn't drink any of them.  Ever. 

[HaemishM]

Except that's NOT WHAT IT SAYS AT ALL. The article says that like sodas, the juices you buy are mixed up according to a recipe that happens to use a chemical packet. That chemical packet is not listed on the ingredients because it is essentially byproducts of that juice's fruit. It doesn't actually provide any evidence that said flavor packs are bad for you other than "if a food needs a flavor packet to be added to it to make it palatable, how can it be good for you?"

[ghost]

Except that's NOT WHAT IT SAYS AT ALL. The article says that like sodas, the juices you buy are mixed up according to a recipe that happens to use a chemical packet. That chemical packet is not listed on the ingredients because it is essentially byproducts of that juice's fruit. It doesn't actually provide any evidence that said flavor packs are bad for you other than "if a food needs a flavor packet to be added to it to make it palatable, how can it be good for you?"

Different article.  

Edit:  Also, as someone that I know hates big business I'm surprised that you're supporting them in this.  Do you really believe that what is in mass produced food is good for you?  Do they have it in your best interest to provide you with good, healthy food or to make as much money as humanly possible from you?

Its better then that battery acid they call soft drinks.

It is less better than you think.....

BW is referring to this one.

[HaemishM]

Edit:  Also, as someone that I know hates big business I'm surprised that you're supporting them in this.  Do you really believe that what is in mass produced food is good for you?  Do they have it in your best interest to provide you with good, healthy food or to make as much money as humanly possible from you?

Didn't say that either. But claiming that juices are as bad as soda even with the article you linked about the flavor packs isn't really convincing me. Do I think big business is essentially shitting in my food for profit? Sure, I'll buy that. I don't buy that fruit juices made by Coca-Cola are worse than the HFCS-laden diabetes bombs they call sodas.

[ghost]

Did you see the other articles about arsenic and strange fungicides that are known carcinogens being found in mass produced juices?  It's not good stuff, man. 

[HaemishM]

Nope it isn't, but those things can be chalked up to the legacy of Bush's laisse faire FDA regulators as opposed to saying that fruit juices are inherently as bad for your health as soda.

[ghost]

Nope it isn't, but those things can be chalked up to the legacy of Bush's laisse faire FDA regulators as opposed to saying that fruit juices are inherently as bad for your health as soda.

What the fuck does "inherently" have to do with it?  Absolutely nothing.  This is about mass produced shit that comes out of the corporate world to get shoved down our kids' throats.  And you're fooling yourself if you think the amount of sugar that is in fruit juice is inherently healthy.

[Mrbloodworth]

•  Diet soda! Certainly better than swigging fruit juice or regular soda pop all day long.

[Khaldun]

But some of the shit that's in juices is in fruit too, I guarantee it. And it's just about industrially-processed food, you know. There are certain kinds of pathogenic dangers that are basically an intrinsic part of food and drink no matter what. Though there probably *is* a mass produced system that could plausibly exist which could minimize both 'classic' sources of contamination and 'modern' contaminants. The unit costs of food would be far higher in that system, which I suppose you could argue would be better in terms of decreasing the sheer number of calories available to most people on their budgets.

However. One of the things that's increasingly well-understood about why population started to rise in the 17th-18th C. in Europe was: a) higher agricultural yields through changes in land tenure, agricultural techniques and household organization and b) sugar coming from the American slave plantations. Essentially a lot of people died in infancy simply because there were very few calories available and much of what was available was contaminated. (The other big issue was sanitation and water quality, which also started to improve at this time.)  More food, even the cheap 'bad' calories of sugar, basically made the quality of life vastly better for almost everyone, and got far more people out of childhood alive.

Food production, consumption and circulation is probably the single most complex, intricate dimension of modern, human global society. People that come at it thinking that you can just pull at a few simple variables and hey presto! no more fatties or no more cancer or whatever are messing with something that can spawn forty unintended consequences for every simple good outcome.

[ghost]

But some of the shit that's in juices is in fruit too, I guarantee it. And it's just about industrially-processed food, you know. There are certain kinds of pathogenic dangers that are basically an intrinsic part of food and drink no matter what. Though there probably *is* a mass produced system that could plausibly exist which could minimize both 'classic' sources of contamination and 'modern' contaminants. The unit costs of food would be far higher in that system, which I suppose you could argue would be better in terms of decreasing the sheer number of calories available to most people on their budgets.

However. One of the things that's increasingly well-understood about why population started to rise in the 17th-18th C. in Europe was: a) higher agricultural yields through changes in land tenure, agricultural techniques and household organization and b) sugar coming from the American slave plantations. Essentially a lot of people died in infancy simply because there were very few calories available and much of what was available was contaminated. (The other big issue was sanitation and water quality, which also started to improve at this time.)  More food, even the cheap 'bad' calories of sugar, basically made the quality of life vastly better for almost everyone, and got far more people out of childhood alive.

Food production, consumption and circulation is probably the single most complex, intricate dimension of modern, human global society. People that come at it thinking that you can just pull at a few simple variables and hey presto! no more fatties or no more cancer or whatever are messing with something that can spawn forty unintended consequences for every simple good outcome.

This is all very true, however it is inarguable that massive amounts of calories (and particularly shite carbohydrates) that people ingest in the current times are significant contributors to obesity, diabetes mellitus and heart disease.  Recommending for a child to drink water over orange juice is not a stretch at all. 

As for you, BW, I'm not sure how you can possibly read what's in the linked articles and think, "hey, juice is great, let's sit down and drink a shitload every day".  As a clinician, I would not recommend to any patient that they drink either cola, diet cola or juices at all, nor give them to their children.  There is not gray area, and it matters not whether you believe diet cola to be worse than juice at all.  If pressed, and a parent said that they were going to give their child one of the three no matter what, and I had to choose, I would probably choose diet coke over the others due to the massive amounts of calories that would be given to the child.  Diabetes is on the rise in children, and obesity is one of (if not the biggest) health care issue in the United States right now.  But in the end I recommend nothing but water for children and adults, period.  So I guess I agree with the guy that I would recommend diet coke over the other two, but that's like choosing which GOP candidate you like best. 

[Lantyssa]

My personal slightly-educated feel is that HFCS is a big culprit, too.  Sugar-based drinks aren't as good as water, but preferable to ones mainly using fructose.

[Sheepherder]

The sugars in fruit juice are fructose.

This is all very true, however it is inarguable that massive amounts of calories (and particularly shite carbohydrates) that people ingest in the current times are significant contributors to obesity, diabetes mellitus and heart disease.

Carbohydrates are the only really viable source of your required daily caloric intake unless you happen to fancy trying a diet of whisky and steak.

[Selby]

Eh, I like some sodas, but being a responsible adult I keep mine in moderation to no more than 1-2 a month, if that.  I drink water the rest of the time and don't really miss soda.  I can't stand diets, so that is out and I tend to gulp fruit juice down too quickly, so I just make the educated decision to drink water 97% of the time.  My ex-wife would drink soda like it was going out of style and never understood why it was an issue...

[ghost]

The sugars in fruit juice are fructose.

This is all very true, however it is inarguable that massive amounts of calories (and particularly shite carbohydrates) that people ingest in the current times are significant contributors to obesity, diabetes mellitus and heart disease.

Carbohydrates are the only really viable source of your required daily caloric intake unless you happen to fancy trying a diet of whisky and steak.

Sugars are carbohydrates.  More specifically mono or disaccharide carbohydrates. 

Also, many fruit juices have HFCS added to them. 

[bhodi]

My favorite are the "Juice Drinks" with 0-15% real juice.

You "should" just drink water or tea. But really, drink whatever you want. Just don't kid yourself about its healthiness.

I personally like fresh squeezed (like, in the store) OJ. With bits. Mmmm pulp. But I only get it in season, the oranges they ship in just don't taste right in the offseasons. It's a different color, too.

[Sheepherder]

Sugars are carbohydrates.  More specifically mono or disaccharide carbohydrates.

Glucose is a monosaccharide.  Lactose is a disaccharide.  Starch is a polysaccharide.  Fructose is a monosaccharide.  All of it is yummy and/or more or less essential to live.  The first two in particular are essential to the continued survival of the human race.  Carbohydrates in general are required for humans to live.  Apes, because they don't have the equipment to digest starches efficiently, thrive off of eating mostly fructose.  That being said, humans too are fully capable of digesting fructose.  I for one rejoice for the fact that, in most ways, I am better than an ape.

That isn't to say you should drink corn syrup though, and those dumbfucks on the linked website that think it's better for them because it's honey or fruit are:

[Margalis]

Juice is tasty, but its really just not that good for you.  There is an extremely high content of sugar which contributes to obesity and diabetes. 

If you look at obese people a common factor is they drink lots of juice.

Ha ha ha.

Sure, juice has a lot of sugar and in theory drinking tons of juice can make you obese but let's get real, the average obese person is not binging on fruit juice. In terms of fighting obesity I imagine getting people to drink less juice should be priority 2000 or so.

[Cyrrex]

Juice is tasty, but its really just not that good for you.  There is an extremely high content of sugar which contributes to obesity and diabetes. 

If you look at obese people a common factor is they drink lots of juice.

Ha ha ha.

Sure, juice has a lot of sugar and in theory drinking tons of juice can make you obese but let's get real, the average obese person is not binging on fruit juice. In terms of fighting obesity I imagine getting people to drink less juice should be priority 2000 or so.

I want to agree with Ghost in spirit, but the above is very true.  Doesn't change the fact that Ghost is saying something important and useful, however, so I think it is a good idea to pay attention to these kinds of things.

[Ruvaldt]

In terms of caloric content most fruit juices are indistinguishable from sugary soft drinks.  I just took a glance at some cran-grape juice I have, which contains no HFCS, and it actually has a higher ratio of calories per ounce than Coca-Cola (15 calories/oz compared to 11.6 calories/oz).  Apple juice has an even higher concentration.  While I'm sure that most obese people aren't binging on fruit juices a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking that fruit juices are genuinely healthy for them and thus they can drink them and not worry as much about the consequences.  If you want to do something healthy with fruit you should eat it; at least then you'll get some fiber to slow down your digestion of the sugars and you'll feel full longer while probably ingesting less energy.

I imagine getting people to drink less juice should be priority 2000 or so.

I would actually say that cutting down on calories from beverages is near the top of the list when trying to lose weight, and whether those calories are coming from soft drinks or juices is immaterial.  It's the very first thing I did when I got my weight under control and lost 70 pounds nine years ago.

[Tebonas]

What Ruvaldt said. I basically lost 20kg (44 pounds, or so google tells me) just by switching from Soft drinks (mostly flavored mineral water) to water and eating at roughly the same times three times a day.

So yes, beverages are worse than stuffing your face with cake. At least you realize what you are doing to yourself with the cake.

[Margalis]

NSFW language:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94ozLQToei0

[NiX]

What Ruvaldt said. I basically lost 20kg (44 pounds, or so google tells me) just by switching from Soft drinks (mostly flavored mineral water) to water and eating at roughly the same times three times a day.

So yes, beverages are worse than stuffing your face with cake. At least you realize what you are doing to yourself with the cake.

I'm amazed at how scared of water people are, especially for living in a first world country. The need for bottled/filtered water being a deterrent for why some people just go with crap drinks boggles my mind.

I actually prefer water over almost every drink now, especially warm water when eating food. I just need to kick my occasional habit of drinking Monster energy drinks.