Hard Mode Flashpoints

[amiable]

The could handle it by buffing up the free heal to make it do moderate healing or increase its energy regen substantially.  But then again that may make it broken.

The problem is that for all practical purposes sorcs/sages have infinite mana because it is very difficult to go through their entire mana pool over the course of a fight, especially considering that most fights are "hurry up and kill it before the enrage timer hits." 

I don't know how they fix it without toning down sorc healing along with combat difficulty.  Toning up merc/operative healing will make them the new OP class (I am saying this as an operative).

Honestly it is kind of a mess, I feel bad for them.

[Fordel]

Would be better if that was explained somewhere in game. Thanks though. Not much use for my Operative I guess.

It is, on the mouseover for the Activation Speed, showing how much bonus you get from talents and from alacrity rating.

[Riggswolfe]

I did some level 50 flashpoints as a Scoundrel healer last night. First, we tried a HM Esseles. I couldn't keep the tank alive through the first boss fight. That said her armoring/mods/enhancements ranged from 44-48. Then we tried False Emporer. Most of the time I kept them up and then we got to HK-47. And you guessed it, I couldn't keep the tank alive again. She'd die in less than 30 seconds.

[amiable]

I did some level 50 flashpoints as a Scoundrel healer last night. First, we tried a HM Esseles. I couldn't keep the tank alive through the first boss fight. That said her armoring/mods/enhancements ranged from 44-48. Then we tried False Emporer. Most of the time I kept them up and then we got to HK-47. And you guessed it, I couldn't keep the tank alive again. She'd die in less than 30 seconds.

That's weird, single target healing is actually what scoundrels/operatives excell at:  Keep 2 hots rolling on the main tank and then alternate long heal with the free instant.  You will never run out of energy.  If the tank dips below 30% you can spam a free heal on them indefinitely (as long as you have a single TA).   Things go south when other folk start taking damage.

If the damage is so intense a scoundrel can't keep up with a single target, ugh.

[Nebu]

Sorc/Sage has the advantage of a much larger power pool for healing.  It's the only viable healer right now.  Our Sorc went on vacation, so we tried a few hard modes and failed with an Op and a Merc healer.  It was a mess.

[Sky]

Reason #47 to reroll at 50: Enrage timers.

Thanks!

I can easily see the thing with BH healing, it's tough just tanking and maintaining a decent heat level, and I have a number of venting techniques. Things get the least bit hairy and I'm at the heat cap, having the dissipation on a sliding scale is so punitive, imagine if your force/energy regenerated more slowly the more you used.

Also, Rigg's point about the undergeared tank is why I haven't been pushing to do any FPs. My gear blows. Armormech really let me down after 41, which I've griped about elsewhere here. A few blues, but I'm back to mostly oranges with blue quest mods. Normally I like to stayed gear for current level, which I know isn't the fashion in 'race to the endgame' mmo, but imo leveling is way too fast in TOR...without any space combat or pvp.

[Ingmar]

I can easily see the thing with BH healing, it's tough just tanking and maintaining a decent heat level, and I have a number of venting techniques. Things get the least bit hairy and I'm at the heat cap, having the dissipation on a sliding scale is so punitive, imagine if your force/energy regenerated more slowly the more you used.

Energy does in fact regenerate more slowly the more you use on smugglers/IAs. Dunno about Consular/Inquisitor force. JK/SW focus/rage is a different sort of model with its own challenges.

[CmdrSlack]

I can easily see the thing with BH healing, it's tough just tanking and maintaining a decent heat level, and I have a number of venting techniques. Things get the least bit hairy and I'm at the heat cap, having the dissipation on a sliding scale is so punitive, imagine if your force/energy regenerated more slowly the more you used.

Energy does in fact regenerate more slowly the more you use on smugglers/IAs. Dunno about Consular/Inquisitor force. JK/SW focus/rage is a different sort of model with its own challenges.

I only have to worry about my sorc and his force bar when Khem is tanking something particularly nasty and I am chain healing him. Other than that, the yellow bar may not even exist -- it's the health bar that is my primary concern.

[Sjofn]

The ammo/heat/energy model is more interesting to manage for sure, but most people don't want "interesting" for their healer's resource management (although I do!  ). My sage rarely runs out of power (and I DO like their little mana management thing), though. Perhaps one day I will finally see what she's like in a heroic flashpoint. Hurry up, Slap in the Force.

I wonder, though, how much the issue with non-sage/sorc healing is just people having to learn the New Way. Sage/sorc healing is basically the same healing you've done in any MMO ever, so there is pretty much no adjustment to make. The other healers are pretty different. Not saying I can't see how their model makes it rough for hard fights, I just sort of suspect it's more a combination of their slightly rude for long fights mechanics and people learning how to even deal with that in the first place than 100% they're a shitty healing class.

[Fordel]

I'm fairly confident the Commando Healing is mostly a resource/class issue at it's base, since they reworked it a fuck load just before Beta ended.

[rattran]

Merc healing is great for continual small use, but fucked on spike healing. Sure, you can put out a good amount of heals, then do nothing at all or very, very little while heat regens.

[kildorn]

Commando healing's resource fixing mechanic is also less than ideal in sustained damage scenarios (basically, your slow big heal and your beam of low HoT light fuel your regen. Neither is something you want to be spamming during a boss fight, for ammo and throughput reasons)

I've found I can keep a lot of healing going on a single target (fast heal->slow heal->autoattack is a full regen cycle and ammo neutral. Slow heal->auto->auto is ammo neutral as well. Both not counting using supercharge to pull yourself out of a hole), it's when the group is all melees and the target in question is punishing against clumps of people that I run into serious problems.

PVP however? So many people taking random damage means I'll run out of ammo in seconds trying to drop normal heals on people, and there's no room for much in the way of regen phases.

[Riggswolfe]

Merc healing is great for continual small use, but fucked on spike healing. Sure, you can put out a good amount of heals, then do nothing at all or very, very little while heat regens.

This is sort of what I found. I could keep everyone pretty much maxed during normal fights. We hit that boss and he did damage faster than I could heal it. Apparently as a scoundrel healing through burst damage requires some skill I don't know about or is just not possible.

[rattran]

Having 3 heal specs, and only 1 can heal endgame content. 

[kildorn]

If anything, the big thing Sages have over the others is a really REALLY good AE heal comparatively. Kolto Cloud is pretty lame (~300 every 3 seconds, PBAE), Kolto Bomb has a pretty low target cap (3 people, can't even AE heal a full flashpoint group) as well as being pretty low healing.

[eldaec]

I can easily see the thing with BH healing, it's tough just tanking and maintaining a decent heat level, and I have a number of venting techniques. Things get the least bit hairy and I'm at the heat cap, having the dissipation on a sliding scale is so punitive, imagine if your force/energy regenerated more slowly the more you used.

Energy does in fact regenerate more slowly the more you use on smugglers/IAs. Dunno about Consular/Inquisitor force. JK/SW focus/rage is a different sort of model with its own challenges.

I'm pretty certain that force regenerates at a constant rate, and sorcerors/sages get a lot of it. If someone wanted to nerf something, they could look at reducing the force pool size, because as far as I know they don't have a cooldown ability to boost regen unless you are assassin/deception.

[Sky]

Yeah, I noticed a couple sorcs with something like 600 force...wish I could sextuple the size of my heat pool!

[Lantyssa]

Base 100, +400 for being a Sorcer, +100 through bottom-tier talents.  Plus the options for a 9% reduced cost and a 10% stacking regen buff.

[Nebu]

Base 100, +400 for being a Sorcer, +100 through bottom-tier talents.  Plus the options for a 9% reduced cost and a 10% stacking regen buff.

Agents get base 100 power + bonuses, but nothing close to that.  As a bonus, our regen rate slows as our power gets low.  The heat mechanic isn't all that different.  I've been leveling a sorc alt and it's silly how easy the class is to play compared to my agent.  Fewer things to manage and a larger power pool.  Nice balance Bioware!

[amiable]

Base 100, +400 for being a Sorcer, +100 through bottom-tier talents.  Plus the options for a 9% reduced cost and a 10% stacking regen buff.

Agents get base 100 power + bonuses, but nothing close to that.  As a bonus, our regen rate slows as our power gets low.  The heat mechanic isn't all that different.  I've been leveling a sorc alt and it's silly how easy the class is to play compared to my agent.  Fewer things to manage and a larger power pool.  Nice balance Bioware!

It would almost be worth it if Agents could get more throughput by managing their heat better, but from what I have seen, my heals are worse than the base sorc heals  .

[Sjofn]

If anything, the big thing Sages have over the others is a really REALLY good AE heal comparatively. Kolto Cloud is pretty lame (~300 every 3 seconds, PBAE), Kolto Bomb has a pretty low target cap (3 people, can't even AE heal a full flashpoint group) as well as being pretty low healing.

They really need to sex those two heals up to bring them up closer to the sage's level. I mean yes, the sage AE heal is the Last Talent in their tree, but still.

[amiable]

If anything, the big thing Sages have over the others is a really REALLY good AE heal comparatively. Kolto Cloud is pretty lame (~300 every 3 seconds, PBAE), Kolto Bomb has a pretty low target cap (3 people, can't even AE heal a full flashpoint group) as well as being pretty low healing.

They really need to sex those two heals up to bring them up closer to the sage's level. I mean yes, the sage AE heal is the Last Talent in their tree, but still.

So is the smugglers/ia's, and its terrible!

[Furiously]

Doubling every heal amount on the BH/IA would make the classes a lot more interesting. Allow you to really screw yourself up heatwise attacking and such. I'd be happy with 1.5 time cooldown on the heals too.  Nothing really fun about hitting little heal then big heal continuously,

I also don't get the PvP healing nerf. They need to make heals do like 2 times as much in PvP to make them worthwhile.

[kildorn]

You can wind up in situations where healing is silly even now in pvp (I had a match where nobody died the entire goddamned game. Both sides were 6 healers deep), but I do think the healing nerf is a bit much considering that chain healing isn't really a thing in SWTOR. Most healers are going to run out of gas right quick if they need to just pump heals into someone.

[Sjofn]

If anything, the big thing Sages have over the others is a really REALLY good AE heal comparatively. Kolto Cloud is pretty lame (~300 every 3 seconds, PBAE), Kolto Bomb has a pretty low target cap (3 people, can't even AE heal a full flashpoint group) as well as being pretty low healing.

They really need to sex those two heals up to bring them up closer to the sage's level. I mean yes, the sage AE heal is the Last Talent in their tree, but still.

So is the smugglers/ia's, and its terrible!

Ah, I didn't realize it was the last talent for them too! The trooper/BH one is somewhere in the middle, I assumed the smuggler one was too since it also sort of sucks. They EXTRA need to buff the smuggler one, then, the consular one kicks its ass.

[ajax34i]

To start, they should do away with the "the less you have the less you regen" mechanic; it's hard enough managing a small energy pool, I don't see the sense in making it even harder.  Then, they should buff healing, if it's crappy for several classes.  Healers seem to be pretty rare, and the fact that the UI sucks doesn't help things.

[kildorn]

To start, they should do away with the "the less you have the less you regen" mechanic; it's hard enough managing a small energy pool, I don't see the sense in making it even harder.  Then, they should buff healing, if it's crappy for several classes.  Healers seem to be pretty rare, and the fact that the UI sucks doesn't help things.

I actually really like the mechanic. It lets me burst if needed, but put myself in the hole by doing so. Essentially I have a 40 energy pool, but can go negative if I think I can afford it.

The only time I curse it is pug heroic4s. Because healing everyone offtanking their own target so the damage is spread out and the targets aren't burning fast enough = god damn it. But I haven't had any complaints with the system when it's a solid group who lets someone tank and the DPS moves out of fire.

[Riggswolfe]

One thing I have noticd, I auto heal myself if I have noone targeted, without having to untarget the enemy. That is quite useful for soloing. Now, if it would let me do that for, say, my tank in group flashpoints I could help with interupts and stuff and be more useful.

[Zetor]

If you have a mouse with side buttons, bind sidebutton1 to 'self target' and sidebutton2 for 'focus target'. Set your companion as the focus while soloing and tank while grouping, profit*!

Re the energy business: it actually reminds me of Guild Wars healer energy management. You'd start a fight with your regen weapon/offhand (++ regen, no mana bonus) and if you got really low and still needed to burst-heal, you switched to your high-energy weapon/offhand (no regen, ++ mana bonus). If you ran out of THAT mana as well, either the fight should be close to over or you were screwed and had to spend quite some time not casting in your regen weapon/offhand set. If you were facing enemies that burned mana, you'd switch to your low energy set (+++ regen, negative mana bonus) until it was over which allowed you to make a part of your mana pool 'untouchable'. Was a pretty decent design IMO, especially for pvp.
ed: obviously it's not working in SWTOR though... so yeah, commando/scoundrel healers need some love.

* assuming you are cool with not mounting between combats, since it kills the focus window  

[Riggswolfe]

If you have a mouse with side buttons, bind sidebutton1 to 'self target' and sidebutton2 for 'focus target'. Set your companion as the focus while soloing and tank while grouping, profit*!

Nice. Maybe I'll buy one of those crazy expensive razer mice. So focus target will be the one I autoheal when I run healing spells? I saw a setting for creating a focus target in the preferences but I couldn't find anywhere to tell me what a focus target IS.

[Zetor]

The focus target appears to the top-right of the 'normal' target as a smaller target frame. It's pretty buggy, so buffs/debuffs will not be showing properly on the 'normal' target as long as you have a focus.

What I do is hold down the first side button if I need to heal myself while having an ally targeted (typically in pvp), and the second side button if I need to heal my focus target while I have an enemy targeted (healing the tank in groups while still being able to interrupt the boss; healing my companion while attacking the enemy).

[Nebu]

For those interested, the new Rakghoul (sp?) instance was pretty fun.  Good atmosphere is all I'll say without spoiling it for others.  The bonus boss is also fun. 

Give it a shot if you have the time.

[Mrbloodworth]

More or less story in it then Black Talon? Or rather, how much story is it or is it just a standard clear the dungeon.

[caladein]

In terms of straight "grind Social Points" it's more False Emperor (or Foundry I guess, but I haven't run that one recently) than Black Talon but it has great atmosphere and is tons of fun all around.

[Ginaz]

I did another HM BT run tonight with a BH healer.  It went very well, much better than the last 2 times with a SI healer.  Our healer had no problems keeping us all up and when I asked him how he liked healing as a BH he said he loved it.  Maybe people just have to adjust to the heat based resource that BHs have and unlearn trying to play their healer like they have a mana pool, which is probably why the SI seems like the superior healer.