Pissed about an X-Com FPS? Firaxis hears ya...

[Ruvaldt]

I just give my assaults laser/plasma rifles.  Shotguns are awesome if they can get close enough, but their flanking abilities are spectacular with Run and Gun and a longer ranged weapon.  If I do give them a shotgun I do it on alien base missions and the like because I know there'll be more close quarter stuff.

[Merusk]

Same here.  Unless it's a known close-quarter situation a shotgun is wasted ammo & action, IMO.  Fucking things can't even hit across the big room in a battleship, much less a wider office space.

Is it nice when you crit and one-shot a Muton Elite or Berserker? Yes, but that's rare enough that I'm ok losing it or - at the very least - only having one Sotgunner who sticks around my long-range people for close-quarter work.

Jeff - You described why I built at least one of my heavies to be Supression/ fire-support machines.  Holo Targeting, Supression and Double-radius skill = "I can't hit you, but you ain't moving and everyone gets free SCOPE.

[Ingmar]

I tried holo-targeting out but I just can't justify taking it over shooting twice. With the power of late game heavy weapons being able to fire them twice always seems to result in higher damage output than holo-targeting, largely because nobody else was going to miss anyway.

[eldaec]

I found I could switch my assaults to shotguns at Major or Colonel. Fully developed aim gives them a few extra squares they can hit.

Before that you have to get so close that you should be using an arc thrower anyway.

[Fabricated]

I still haven't bought this game but I've been watching a playthrough on youtube to see if I want to...the guy is running 2 heavies, 1 sniper,  1 support, and 2 assaults (one with psionics later), and his heavies are fucking obliterating everything at the end with the heavy plasma guns. The Sniper was flat out broken however; he got a jet pack for the sniper which apparently only uses fuel if you move...so the sniper would just float in the air, and the instant anyone spotted aliens he'd immediately pick two of them off one-shot apiece and continue to pretty much get at least 1 kill every round he got provided he wasn't reloading. The heavies sort of baited out the enemies and would at least half-kill anything they fired at. The assaults didn't get to do much outside of grenade throwing and the guy with psionics using a barrier to lower damage done to the group.

[Ruvaldt]

My best sniper with In the Zone killed a cyberdisc, a drone and two chrysalids in a single turn on a Terror mission.  Snipers are all kinds of broken...and tremendously fun.

[Miasma]

I still haven't bought this game but I've been watching a playthrough on youtube to see if I want to...the guy is running 2 heavies, 1 sniper,  1 support, and 2 assaults (one with psionics later), and his heavies are fucking obliterating everything at the end with the heavy plasma guns. The Sniper was flat out broken however; he got a jet pack for the sniper which apparently only uses fuel if you move...so the sniper would just float in the air, and the instant anyone spotted aliens he'd immediately pick two of them off one-shot apiece and continue to pretty much get at least 1 kill every round he got provided he wasn't reloading. The heavies sort of baited out the enemies and would at least half-kill anything they fired at. The assaults didn't get to do much outside of grenade throwing and the guy with psionics using a barrier to lower damage done to the group.

Could I get a link to that?  I usually buy a game if everyone is this pleased with it but this just feels like the type of thing that would frustrate and enrage me.

[Ruvaldt]

Can't it be both?

[Merusk]

Flush works wonderfully on Assaults to keep them useful in awkward situations and I get the feeling some people avoid it thinking that Rapid Fire is better.  The Aim penalty means I've always missed on the Assault I took it with so screw that.  Flush seems to have an aim bonus to compensate for the measly damage you do with it.  (I've had 100% flushes on 70% fire targets)  It's a set-up skill, not a kill skill.

I get the double-fire on heavies but - as mentioned - their aim is always so abysmal that I'm missing with at least one.  Plus, in my first game the heavy plasma weapon came so late as to be useless.  I didn't get around to finishing research for it until shortly before the Temple run, just after I'd picked-up the blaster launcher.

[Fabricated]

I still haven't bought this game but I've been watching a playthrough on youtube to see if I want to...the guy is running 2 heavies, 1 sniper,  1 support, and 2 assaults (one with psionics later), and his heavies are fucking obliterating everything at the end with the heavy plasma guns. The Sniper was flat out broken however; he got a jet pack for the sniper which apparently only uses fuel if you move...so the sniper would just float in the air, and the instant anyone spotted aliens he'd immediately pick two of them off one-shot apiece and continue to pretty much get at least 1 kill every round he got provided he wasn't reloading. The heavies sort of baited out the enemies and would at least half-kill anything they fired at. The assaults didn't get to do much outside of grenade throwing and the guy with psionics using a barrier to lower damage done to the group.

Could I get a link to that?  I usually buy a game if everyone is this pleased with it but this just feels like the type of thing that would frustrate and enrage me.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHQyGGzRHYIZw9TrPbMHKoDLhtcstj08z&feature=plcp

The guy is actually pretty not obnoxious for a youtube LPer, maybe I just like his accent, which I can't really place. He's doing a classic ironman run right now; this is a normal run.

[Ratman_tf]

Flush works wonderfully on Assaults to keep them useful in awkward situations and I get the feeling some people avoid it thinking that Rapid Fire is better.  The Aim penalty means I've always missed on the Assault I took it with so screw that.  Flush seems to have an aim bonus to compensate for the measly damage you do with it.  (I've had 100% flushes on 70% fire targets)  It's a set-up skill, not a kill skill.

I found flush to be pretty unreliable. You can flush an enemy out into the open, or drive it further into cover. Not sure if rapid fire is any better choice though, for the reasons you mention.

[Ingmar]

Mathematically rapid fire should be a pretty large damage increase under most circumstances. There's only a pretty small band of hit % where the -15% chance will make shooting twice bad.

[Tannhauser]

Does anyone have a certain squad member who can't HIT JACK SHIT?  I have Col. Popov, the proud owner of missing a 95% and two reaction shots against a berserker.  If he wasn't psychic I'd give his gear to a rookie.  No idea how he made colonel.  He makes me want to punch kittens.

[lamaros]

Just on the Heavies again: if movement speed and aim are the reasons you don't like them I can only assume you're playing normal or easy. Rockets hit at 90% and are most of the heavy kills. LMGs also do more damage early on, which is quite handy on the tough difficulties. (this is also why you get assaults with shotguns early - you need the crit for one shot kills and can't flank wide because the whole map is enemies.)

On a tough difficulty you will get at least two kills per rocket early on, and you will wish you had more rockets. Later game all your heavies will have scopes and will destroy mechs.

Rapid fire is way batter than flush. Most perk choices have one that is way better.

[koro]

I play nothing but Classic. My Heavies tend to hover around second or third in squad kills depending on how aggressive I am with my Assaults, but they still can't hit worth a damn. Rockets and Bullet Storm nab them most of their kills and get them to Colonel before everyone except a Sniper, but once I start running into stuff with high base Defense (hi, Muton Elites and Heavy Floaters) they become little more than suppression machines until the enemies get blown out of cover.

[lamaros]

I play nothing but Classic. My Heavies tend to hover around second or third in squad kills depending on how aggressive I am with my Assaults, but they still can't hit worth a damn. Rockets and Bullet Storm nab them most of their kills and get them to Colonel before everyone except a Sniper, but once I start running into stuff with high base Defense (hi, Muton Elites and Heavy Floaters) they become little more than suppression machines until the enemies get blown out of cover.

Ah, suppression. There's your problem!

Always get the rockets! Suppression is for supports. Later on they aren't as vital as early, but having lots of rockets for cover destruction and mopping up is very very useful. Also the early game is by far the hardest time in the game and heavies are the best then. They carry the side while you're getting your snipers ready.

[DraconianOne]

Mathematically rapid fire should be a pretty large damage increase under most circumstances. There's only a pretty small band of hit % where the -15% chance will make shooting twice bad.

Probability in games - a research associate at the University of Kent explicitly discusses the 15% penalty on Assault's Rapid Fire with graphs and everything.

Let’s take the simplest case. The alien is infuriatingly still alive, despite having just 1 health, meaning any shot that hits will kill it. You’ve got full ammo, and your Assault has moved to a good location. You have some probability, p, to hit the alien with a single shot. Should you fire one shot, or use rapid fire?

 

[lamaros]

Thats a long post considering you're just multiplying two numbers together...

[koro]

I play nothing but Classic. My Heavies tend to hover around second or third in squad kills depending on how aggressive I am with my Assaults, but they still can't hit worth a damn. Rockets and Bullet Storm nab them most of their kills and get them to Colonel before everyone except a Sniper, but once I start running into stuff with high base Defense (hi, Muton Elites and Heavy Floaters) they become little more than suppression machines until the enemies get blown out of cover.

Ah, suppression. There's your problem!

Always get the rockets! Suppression is for supports. Later on they aren't as vital as early, but having lots of rockets for cover destruction and mopping up is very very useful. Also the early game is by far the hardest time in the game and heavies are the best then. They carry the side while you're getting your snipers ready.

I run with two heavies: one goes heavy rockets, the other goes more for suppression. Heavy suppression isn't something to sneeze at, and leaving it solely in the domain of Supports is a waste. Suppressing three Mutons at once while you're fighting six others is a pretty handy thing.

Rockets are handy, yes, but if you're too free with them early on you can run into problems with lacking weapon fragments.

[eldaec]

The real value of rockets at higher level is that they wipe away cover. They don't really do enough damage to give you a fragments shortage.

[Jeff Kelly]

Just got the blaster launcher: Awesome Weapon that you get so late into the game that more often than not you've already played the final mission before encountering and downing the first battleship.

I only got it because I keep leveling psi troopers instead of taking on the final mission.

Two further remarks

There should be a research option to reduce psi lab time. It took my RNG a year to give me a gifted soldier.

There should be a way to get soldiers with a higher level than squaddie

[koro]

According to the strip-mined game files, you are guaranteed to have one of your top 8 test positive for psionics, with rapidly diminishing chances afterwards.

Dunno how you managed to not get a gifted soldier for so long.

[Goumindong]

My best sniper with In the Zone killed a cyberdisc, a drone and two chrysalids in a single turn on a Terror mission.  Snipers are all kinds of broken...and tremendously fun.

Terror mission: Courthouse map

Turn 2: Uncover 1 Berzerker, 2 Mutons, 6 Heavy Floaters, 3 Chyssalids.

Turn 3: Mind Control Muton, Kite Berzerker till he dies. Mind Controlled Muton turned into zombie

Turn 4: Move Heavy into Place, General Retreat. Move Sniper out to clear line of sight. Clean up chyssalids which charged. Enemy Heavy Floaters, Zombie, Chyssalids, Muton kill civilians and move up. Take cover at front of courthouse

Turn 5: Rocket the entire front of the courthouse off with his expanded AoE Rocket. My plasma sniper is In. The. Zone. Kills 4 heavy floaters, the zombie and the Muton before running out of ammo.

[Goumindong]

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHQyGGzRHYIZw9TrPbMHKoDLhtcstj08z&feature=plcp

The guy is actually pretty not obnoxious for a youtube LPer, maybe I just like his accent, which I can't really place. He's doing a classic ironman run right now; this is a normal run.

Watch this guy instead:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Beaglerush?feature=watch

Not only is he much better at the game, he explains things that he does(in general), edits the videos to not take 30 minutes per episode, is funny, but also is playing the game on a difficulty in which his tips will actually help you play.

[tmp]

There should be a research option to reduce psi lab time. It took my RNG a year to give me a gifted soldier.

There should be a way to get soldiers with a higher level than squaddie

I found it fairly reliable to hire a small batch of soldiers, have them auto-level with the school perk, then check their will attribute. There may be 1-2 points of difference at that stage between them, and the ones with higher gain are pretty good candidates. For this matter, same seems to go for the levelled up soldiers. Three of my colonels with the highest willpower turned out to be gifted.

[lamaros]

Higher will increases the likelihood. Even one of the game tips points this out.

[Ruvaldt]

My best sniper with In the Zone killed a cyberdisc, a drone and two chrysalids in a single turn on a Terror mission.  Snipers are all kinds of broken...and tremendously fun.

Terror mission: Courthouse map.

Mine was on the courthouse map as well.  I love that map.

[koro]

The one thing I don't like about Terror missions is that I never really get to go anywhere in the map before enemies swoop in from all positions. With the courthouse I usually only ever get some of my squad up to the vehicles parked in front of the entrance and maybe one or two people into the side door where you start the mission, where they invariably have to hightail it back out when mutons and berserkers come charging through. I've never set foot inside the front door or even on the second floor.

I guess that's one of the downsides of playing on Classic with its more aggressive AI.

[lamaros]

Yeah the harder difficulty combined with the scatter mechanic means that defensive camping becomes the best option in too many situations.

[eldaec]

Higher will increases the likelihood. Even one of the game tips points this out.

I'm not certain, but pretty sure it is potential will rather than current will.

Doesn't seem to help if you level a guy up before baking him in the lab.

[Ironwood]

Fuck Sectopods.

[lamaros]

Higher will increases the likelihood. Even one of the game tips points this out.

I'm not certain, but pretty sure it is potential will rather than current will.

Doesn't seem to help if you level a guy up before baking him in the lab.

How would the game measure potential will?

[eldaec]

Depends on how will upgrades are determined. Might be a hidden stat similar to UFO, might just be adjusting for the number of remaining promotions, with or without an adjustment for iron will.

[eldaec]

Fuck Sectopods.

No, in soviet xcom, Sectopods fuck *you*.

[Ironwood]

That would seem to be the case.  Of all the baddies, they cause me the most grief :  That shock cannon is an absolute cock up the arse and they seem also to get unlimited reaction shots, or possibly I've just been unlucky.

I really, really don't remember them being that bad in the original.  Then again, I don't remember Cyberdisks chucking fucking grenades either.  First time it did that, I was all 'Clever Girl...arggg.'