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Author Topic: Pissed about an X-Com FPS? Firaxis hears ya...  (Read 356275 times)
Merusk
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Reply #735 on: October 15, 2012, 12:11:58 PM

Apparently you can get gifted techs, I just saw a screenshot of someone getting 'Research: Carapace Armor" from a UFO crash mission success results.  Is that only on normal difficulty? I know I had to unlock Carapace Armor through the research tree.

Maybe if you're so far behind the game takes pity on you?  Weird.   I've only gotten the research bonuses for interrogating live aliens. Those speed things up a LOT and make it worth capping one of each.  Think of them like Pokemon.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Ingmar
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Reply #736 on: October 15, 2012, 12:13:38 PM

The only person who sees the sectoid is the Sniper, who is still flanking it.

This could just be a bug where it doesn't take it away from you after the other guy died, though.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Pezzle
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Reply #737 on: October 15, 2012, 12:27:57 PM

Flanking requires sight by two people, for one of which the alien must be in the open.

You still have the non-cover to hit, though.

Oho!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

The part about requiring sight by two people is not true.

Same mission as the screenshot I took earlier, but on the final turn. My Heavy since died (thanks, lucky crit), so I've only got three people left: my Assault, my Sniper, and a Rookie.

I moved my Sniper up so he has flanking on the last sectoid; the other two squadmates are behind the semi you see at the top-right:

My Assault had pulled back to reload in the previous turn, so he was out of LOS anyway:

And here, my Rookie also does not have LOS on the sectoid:

The only person who sees the sectoid is the Sniper, who is still flanking it.

Alien head colors mean............?

Red heads in the lower-right mean your selected soldier sees an alien; there's a head for each visible target. You can mouse over them to see your hit % and where the alien is without having to scour the map.

Yellow heads mean that selected soldier has flanking on one or more aliens he sees.

Also, if the alien head has a little crosshair on it that means your sniper can see it because of the squadsight ability. 
Amaron
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Reply #738 on: October 15, 2012, 12:32:54 PM

Once you start psi testing, you cannot stop it.

I just stopped it earlier.
Ingmar
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Reply #739 on: October 15, 2012, 12:44:45 PM

You can't cancel it from the squad screen, but I think you can from the psi-testing screen itself.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
DraconianOne
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Reply #740 on: October 15, 2012, 12:53:56 PM

Red heads in the lower-right mean your selected soldier sees an alien; there's a head for each visible target. You can mouse over them to see your hit % and where the alien is without having to scour the map.

Yellow heads mean that selected soldier has flanking on one or more aliens he sees.

There is definitely a bug but it might be with the display. Last night I noticed that mouseover on the head gave suggested a 97% shot chance but lining up a shot said it was 67% (which was more likely given the angle and cover). Also, moving my assault into an open square next to a mob did not show that it was flanking on the heads but did on the aliens display and I had a 100% lined up shot.

And yeah, you don't need 2 people to get flanking.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Amaron
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Reply #741 on: October 15, 2012, 01:03:39 PM

You can't cancel it from the squad screen, but I think you can from the psi-testing screen itself.

Yea if you go directly to the psi center there's a button to cancel it.
koro
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Reply #742 on: October 15, 2012, 01:12:21 PM

The only person who sees the sectoid is the Sniper, who is still flanking it.

This could just be a bug where it doesn't take it away from you after the other guy died, though.

The Heavy had been dead for three turns before this, and said Heavy had never gotten sight of that particular sectoid in the first place (the two aliens on the semi from the earlier screenshot were long dead). The Sniper and Rookie both started that turn in LOS, but not flanking it. I moved the Rookie behind the semi's cab and she lost LOS of it (the head icon poofed for her). I moved the Sniper and the alien head icon changed from red to yellow as he got into flanking.

You can't cancel it from the squad screen, but I think you can from the psi-testing screen itself.

Really? I never saw any cancel button. The psi testing screen always just had the 1-3 candidates listed, the remaining test duration, and the "back to base layout" button in the lower left. The Remove Soldier buttons were greyed-out and unclickable.

Considering some of the bugs with the menus on the base I've heard from other people, I wouldn't be shocked to learn that the button's just not appearing for me for some reason.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 01:14:27 PM by koro »
Merusk
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Reply #743 on: October 15, 2012, 01:24:30 PM

If you can I'll be very happy. I should have known better than to send all 3 colonels in at once. I trust my Sergeant, and Captain Heavy and Assult backups. It's the Squaddie sniper replacement I worry about. Newb mistake.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Amaron
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Reply #744 on: October 15, 2012, 01:48:54 PM

Maybe you can't cancel it in classic?
Ingmar
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Reply #745 on: October 15, 2012, 01:52:25 PM

Now that could be, yeah.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
koro
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Reply #746 on: October 15, 2012, 01:53:07 PM

Maybe you can't cancel it in classic?

Not sure. I installed a rebalance mod last night and one of its changes includes tinkering with the psi testing thing, reducing the amount of soldiers you can do at once to 2, but lowering the test time to 6 days. I could remove them then, but not before.
Father mike
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Reply #747 on: October 15, 2012, 01:58:14 PM

I was digging around in the game files and found a "blaster luncher."  It appears to be a plasma-based replacement for the rocket launcher. Anyone know if it is actually in the game and, if so,  how to unlock it?

I would like to thank Vladimir Putin for ensuring that every member of the NPR news staff has had to say "Pussy Riot" on the air multiple times.
Samprimary
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Reply #748 on: October 15, 2012, 02:06:21 PM

I was digging around in the game files and found a "blaster luncher."  It appears to be a plasma-based replacement for the rocket launcher. Anyone know if it is actually in the game and, if so,  how to unlock it?

Shoot down a Battleship, and take it in a ground mission. You'll get the best tech in the game.
Merusk
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Reply #749 on: October 15, 2012, 02:07:19 PM

No idea if they're in the game, but I can't imagine leaving out THE most iconic weapon of the series.

In the original you had to capture a blaster intact to begin the research. They were carried most frequently by snakemen (who seem to be missing.) and the rare Muton.   If I had to guess I'd bet they're in the hands of the Muton Elites or possibly Etherials.

ed: or Sam could answer while I'm posting.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Tannhauser
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Reply #750 on: October 15, 2012, 02:08:44 PM

The BL requires a Heavy to use it.  Cost 350, 65 alloys, 85 elerium, 1 Fusion Core and 2 UFO Flight Computers and 35 engineers.
Ingmar
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Reply #751 on: October 15, 2012, 02:21:48 PM

Snakemen were really dumb as aliens anyway, I don't miss them. Here's a D&D monster thrown in with all your space aliens!

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Father mike
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Reply #752 on: October 15, 2012, 02:27:25 PM

Thanks for the replies.  Now to find a battleship!

I would like to thank Vladimir Putin for ensuring that every member of the NPR news staff has had to say "Pussy Riot" on the air multiple times.
lamaros
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Reply #753 on: October 15, 2012, 02:28:55 PM

Not really. There are no choices, there is one right thing any everything else is wrong. It's not a case of "if you go research early you fuck yourself by getting engineers", it is "if you don't go engineers first, then you're fucked. do x, then y, then z. any deviation from this path results in failure." You don't plan and execute a strategy, you just follow one that the game requires.

At least that is what the game feels like at this stage for me.

This is nonsense.  You are trying for some optimal outcome, ok, sure, then somethings work better than others at certain points of the game to get some specific effect.  But saying that's not a strategic choice on your part is foolish.  Recognizing a (or the) path of best reward isn't anti-strategy, it's actually the essence of strategy.  In this game almost every decision has some long term effect on your strategy.  Every time you launch a satellite you are exercising strategic choice about who gets support with a limited resource and who doesn't.  Every time you pick one research path over the other you are making a strategic choice about your accessibility to long term facilities and tactical options available.  Every time you decide to spend your money on a buying a laser rifle rather than saving for something else you are making a strategic choice about what you feel will help you more long term.  Every time you send soldier A instead of soldier B to a mission you are making a strategic choice about what battlefield options you want available and resource investment for long term success.  If you don't think leveling a single soldier up to Colonel over leveling several rookies up to sergeant required a whole series of series of strategic choices you are really confused, and, etc... etc... etc...

Also, earlier you posted that the game should tell you which soldiers are better for which mission maps. I don't think you get it both ways, either knowing an optimal path is bad or knowing an optimal path is good.  Make up your mind.

All of what you said only applies to lower difficulty levels. The margins for failure on impossible are so low that you are forced to play optimally: there is no such thing as alternate viable parts, and no such thing as random elements making different play throughs unfold in new ways.

As for seeig the map, that's not about knowing an optimal path, but about being able to formulate a specific plan for each mission based on what units you have and the terrain. It is not about the game telling you anything, but about being able to go: hmm long sight lines and my sniper is injured, I'll roll with a bit more suppression and give my assault a rifle this time.
lamaros
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Reply #754 on: October 15, 2012, 02:32:06 PM

Nah, flanking actually has a few bugs. Often in regard to shared walls and breaks. It's rare, and most of the time you know what's happening, but sometimes there are flat out bugs with it.

Unless you know where all the troopers are on the map I don't think you can determine which, if any, of those screenshots is a bug.

Flanking bonuses are different from lack of cover.  The game appears to keep track of azimuths from the target to the potential shooters and if there is more than one potential shooter and they are at least some arc apart (90 degrees? It might vary form in cover to out of cover or level of cover) from each other you can get a flanking bonus on one (or more) of the shooters.

No they're not. You can get flanking bonuses with only one unit. I tested this extensively with the demo and have observed it again here. There are just a couple of bugs, though quite rarely.
Ingmar
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Reply #755 on: October 15, 2012, 02:41:08 PM

All I know about what maps are coming is that Egypt is inexplicably full of idyllic pine woodlands with abundant streams.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Pezzle
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Reply #756 on: October 15, 2012, 02:44:42 PM

All I know about what maps are coming is that Egypt is inexplicably full of idyllic pine woodlands with abundant streams.

Remember, this game is set in 2015!   awesome, for real
murdoc
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Reply #757 on: October 15, 2012, 03:05:54 PM

Haven't had a ton of time to get into this, but I love what I've seen so far and I'm absolutely terrible at it.

Have you tried the internet? It's made out of millions of people missing the point of everything and then getting angry about it
Murgos
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Reply #758 on: October 15, 2012, 03:50:04 PM

And here is a shot I took earlier. Note how my Assault has flanking on both aliens against the side of the semi.

I still disagree and now that I am home and can look at that screen shot I'll tell you why that's not a bug, line of sight is calculated from 1 square around the target.  Both of those flanked sectoids are within 1 square of a pass through.  The first sectoid is within 1 square of where 4 other soldiers would have LOS.  Line of sight on the second one is harder to tell but the gap between the semi's could account for it.

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Goumindong
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Reply #759 on: October 15, 2012, 03:58:16 PM

flanking does not require two people. The heavy should be flanking, its a bug that its not. I have flanked many times without two people.
Jade Falcon
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Reply #760 on: October 15, 2012, 04:01:05 PM

Had a nasty mission out the back of a pub (memories of nights out in Glasgow), started in the car park so the only cover was cars, and the first move I make reveals 2 muton/beserker groups who promptly bend my guys over the cars and roger them senseless. Restarted that one a couple of times until I managed to avoid the raping a little bit.

Anyway, noticed this inside the pub, between bouts of painful alien bumsex:

That video game is also in your base,the room with the pool table on the left hand side beside the coffee pot you can just make out the xcom title on the top of it and a old sectoid graphic on the screen.






koro
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Reply #761 on: October 15, 2012, 04:07:03 PM

And here is a shot I took earlier. Note how my Assault has flanking on both aliens against the side of the semi.

I still disagree and now that I am home and can look at that screen shot I'll tell you why that's not a bug, line of sight is calculated from 1 square around the target.  Both of those flanked sectoids are within 1 square of a pass through.  The first sectoid is within 1 square of where 4 other soldiers would have LOS.  Line of sight on the second one is harder to tell but the gap between the semi's could account for it.

No other soldier in that shot had LOS to an alien. The sectoid at the cab would've had to be one tile closer to the Assault for the Rookie (at the boxes in the upper-left) to see, and might not have even then. The Heavy (to the left of the Rookie) had no LOS, and the Support (inside the semi) was moved there in his previous turn explicitly to break LOS with a sectoid that had him flanked (he was outside the open trailer door that you can't see and moved just inside it) from the fuel tank up there between the cabs of the two semis.

Edit: The Assault was the one who discovered the two aliens there in the first place. The Rookie had shot and killed the sectoid flanking the support, and my Assault moved to that corner on his turn.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 04:12:33 PM by koro »
lamaros
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Reply #762 on: October 15, 2012, 04:20:37 PM

In the tutorial you flank with one unit...
koro
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Reply #763 on: October 15, 2012, 04:31:44 PM

That too.
CmdrSlack
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Reply #764 on: October 15, 2012, 04:56:54 PM

Not really. There are no choices, there is one right thing any everything else is wrong. It's not a case of "if you go research early you fuck yourself by getting engineers", it is "if you don't go engineers first, then you're fucked. do x, then y, then z. any deviation from this path results in failure." You don't plan and execute a strategy, you just follow one that the game requires.

At least that is what the game feels like at this stage for me.

This is nonsense.  You are trying for some optimal outcome, ok, sure, then somethings work better than others at certain points of the game to get some specific effect.  But saying that's not a strategic choice on your part is foolish.  Recognizing a (or the) path of best reward isn't anti-strategy, it's actually the essence of strategy.  In this game almost every decision has some long term effect on your strategy.  Every time you launch a satellite you are exercising strategic choice about who gets support with a limited resource and who doesn't.  Every time you pick one research path over the other you are making a strategic choice about your accessibility to long term facilities and tactical options available.  Every time you decide to spend your money on a buying a laser rifle rather than saving for something else you are making a strategic choice about what you feel will help you more long term.  Every time you send soldier A instead of soldier B to a mission you are making a strategic choice about what battlefield options you want available and resource investment for long term success.  If you don't think leveling a single soldier up to Colonel over leveling several rookies up to sergeant required a whole series of series of strategic choices you are really confused, and, etc... etc... etc...

Also, earlier you posted that the game should tell you which soldiers are better for which mission maps. I don't think you get it both ways, either knowing an optimal path is bad or knowing an optimal path is good.  Make up your mind.

All of what you said only applies to lower difficulty levels. The margins for failure on impossible are so low that you are forced to play optimally: there is no such thing as alternate viable parts, and no such thing as random elements making different play throughs unfold in new ways.

As for seeig the map, that's not about knowing an optimal path, but about being able to formulate a specific plan for each mission based on what units you have and the terrain. It is not about the game telling you anything, but about being able to go: hmm long sight lines and my sniper is injured, I'll roll with a bit more suppression and give my assault a rifle this time.

So, wait. The impossible difficulty setting is kind of generally impossible? Well there's some bait-and-switch bullshit right there, I tells ya!

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
Amaron
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Reply #765 on: October 15, 2012, 04:57:43 PM

All of what you said only applies to lower difficulty levels. The margins for failure on impossible are so low that you are forced to play optimally: there is no such thing as alternate viable parts, and no such thing as random elements making different play throughs unfold in new ways.

You can't really say "it lacks strategy" when you pump it up to impossible.  It's an AI cheat mod.  You'll always be forced to exploit flaws in the system to win at that level.
DraconianOne
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Reply #766 on: October 15, 2012, 05:09:16 PM

Snakemen were really dumb as aliens anyway, I don't miss them. Here's a D&D monster thrown in with all your space aliens!

Snakemen are still in the game... kind of. Listen to the Thin Men autopsy report. (I can't be the only one who noticed and was amused by that.)

Also, another cool little easter egg/cheat:



A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
lamaros
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Reply #767 on: October 15, 2012, 05:29:15 PM

All of what you said only applies to lower difficulty levels. The margins for failure on impossible are so low that you are forced to play optimally: there is no such thing as alternate viable parts, and no such thing as random elements making different play throughs unfold in new ways.

You can't really say "it lacks strategy" when you pump it up to impossible.  It's an AI cheat mod.  You'll always be forced to exploit flaws in the system to win at that level.

It could cheat in a way that offers are varied play each time though, rather than a linear - you need x now, y next, z by month three.

I mean, you never need to build a lab in any game. It's a pointless building and serves only to hamstring your game. In my view that's poor design.

Also classic isn't that challenging. You can go through the game without losing a unit or a country on ironman...
Goumindong
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Reply #768 on: October 15, 2012, 07:04:35 PM

Also classic isn't that challenging. You can go through the game without losing a unit or a country on ironman...

Yea, you can. Its also possible to go through the game without losing a single unit or country on impossible. So long as your play is perfect and you're lucky...

Classic is pretty challenging, in that if you wipe any mission you're going to lose a country and there are many situations in which wipes are more than possible.
kildorn
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Reply #769 on: October 15, 2012, 08:09:30 PM

Getting through classic with no deaths is simply luck. One crit early on = dead rookie. There's pretty much dick all you can do about that versus a miss. That said, the main difference is the AI is a bit better about aggressively flanking you, and your accuracy dropoff over range is absolute shit. If you can make it out of assault rifles without heavy losses you should be okay.
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