Pissed about an X-Com FPS? Firaxis hears ya...

[rk47]

Hey this is great. while i dont dig the base building aspect much, this is shaping up to be a great game.

[Merusk]

Base building was one of my favorite parts of the original.  Well.. until I figured out the optimal defensive layout.  After that it was just waiting for the general stores and hangar to complete.

Was I the only one who looked at the layout of the base in the vid and thought "dude, there's way too many access points from the hangars. They're going to get invaded and people are going to get wasted."

[Muffled]

I have the nagging fear that there are only ever going to be four squad members on the ground, and that such a small number will either make getting them killed an impossibly remote chance or an instant mission failure every time.  Being able to put sixteen people on the ground meant each one was expendable enough that they could die without crippling your force and causing blinding rage, having only four just can't preserve that arrangement.

Also I would be sad if there were no more suicide rookies to check doors while carrying primed grenades and such.

[Merusk]

That would be sad.  Skippy the unlucky intern was a staple of everyone's squads!

[tmp]

I have the nagging fear that there are only ever going to be four squad members on the ground, and that such a small number will either make getting them killed an impossibly remote chance or an instant mission failure every time.

The number is supposedly limited to six. 4 is starting amount, or something like that.

copypasta from relevant source

GC: My only concern is the four soldier squad limit because that does change the nature of the tactics and gameplay quite considerably, so what's the thinking behind that?

JS: It's a six squad limit actually, but you start with four and the idea is that later in the game you add more…

GC: The original limit was like 12 or 14 wasn't it?

JS: Yeah, once you get the Avenger transport you can have obscene amounts. And that's definitely something we scaled down, but the reason we did that is that, as you saw, our soldiers can do a lot more things now. And those guys in the demo weren't even fully levelled up. We've added many, many new weapon types, classes, cover… so we added all these things to the game to where having those huge squads made the game basically unplayable. So…

GC: I guess it's now more like Laser Squad.

JS: Yeah.

[tgr]

12 to 14 is "obscene amounts"?

[Ironwood]

Oh be fair, it was.  You know as well as I do that on some of the nighttime missions you sent Ensign Fuckstick out on purpose to get shot and flush out the enemy.

And let's not even get into how bad a Chrysalid was inside a full Avenger.

[Llyse]

12 to 14 is "obscene amounts"?

The Avenger holds 26 people so yeah 

[rk47]

I just feel sending 6 operatives to tackle an alien invasion is a little bit underwhelming to be honest.
Starting at 4? Wow man, this isn't Space Cops. We're dealing with a global threat and SIX is the maximum we can spare per mission?

[tgr]

Oh be fair, it was.  You know as well as I do that on some of the nighttime missions you sent Ensign Fuckstick out on purpose to get shot and flush out the enemy.

Well yes, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

But honestly, what rk47 says makes sense, we're dealing with a global threat here. On the other hand, since the aliens have the technology to come all the way over here, chances are they'd have a weapon that was able to kill off either the entire human population, or just blow up the entire planet, so I guess some sacrifices of realism must be made.

[Amarr HM]

The main reason the Avenger was so big was to allow you to carry tanks.

[rk47]

Oh be fair, it was.  You know as well as I do that on some of the nighttime missions you sent Ensign Fuckstick out on purpose to get shot and flush out the enemy.

Well yes, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

But honestly, what rk47 says makes sense, we're dealing with a global threat here. On the other hand, since the aliens have the technology to come all the way over here, chances are they'd have a weapon that was able to kill off either the entire human population, or just blow up the entire planet, so I guess some sacrifices of realism must be made.

I'm completely wrong man, they should cut it down to three. One can tank, one can dps, and one can heal. Allow inter-crew romance and choose wife at the end of the game. Also, perma-loss to chrysalid egg should be the ultimate emotional engagement.

"Shepard- I can't..."

"Ash, NO!"

*Ashley bursts into a Chrysalid*

"She's gone, Shepard."

Commander Shepard has gone berserk!

[Murgos]

I just feel sending 6 operatives to tackle an alien invasion is a little bit underwhelming to be honest.
Starting at 4? Wow man, this isn't Space Cops. We're dealing with a global threat and SIX is the maximum we can spare per mission?

I pretty much never sent more than 8 and a tank anyway.  Trying to maneuver 12 or 14 or more around the map was:
1) Usually overkill resulting in 4 to 6 of them just hanging out in the back of the ship
2) Tedious as shit
3) Actually made missions take longer than they needed too

As far as size of the crew on a mission I'll wait to play the game before getting my panties all twisted up about it.

[jakonovski]

I have a feeling they're going to streamline all the variety out of the game and with it all the depth and emergent gameplay that was the hallmark of X-Com.

[Malakili]

I just feel sending 6 operatives to tackle an alien invasion is a little bit underwhelming to be honest.
Starting at 4? Wow man, this isn't Space Cops. We're dealing with a global threat and SIX is the maximum we can spare per mission?

Its tough to pay more than that in this economy.

[Merusk]

I dunno, I always sent 12 and a tank and liked that I had automatic reinforcements for when I'd lose someone.  (Or Ensign Ricky.)

I don't see it as removing a lot of flavor so much as making it that much more mandatory I pay attention and not be stupid.

[Teleku]

Yeah, I don't have a problem with this.  If they were playtesting and found that because of all the extra things characters can do, the game became unplayable, addressing that is important.  I'm a bit more partial to smaller but more powerful squads for my tactical strategy games anyways.  I loved Xcom, but it did get fairly tedious in the later half of the game with all the shit you were trying to move around and keep track of.  I'd say 8 might have been the magic number, but 6 seems fine as well.

I haven't followed all the info released on this game.  Have they confirmed or denied if there will be tanks and/or other vehicals in game?

[Zetor]

Game's definitely a day 1 buy for me. I don't have a problem with smaller group sizes, either. JA2 and the Silent Storm games all had a group size of 6, and that worked fine even on large maps. I think I did a two-pronged assault with two teams once in JA2, but it just became too much of a hassle with only half of my people actually doing interesting / worthwhile stuff and the others just finishing off wounded enemies or standing around for reaction fire. Fewer players also means more tension when the enemy has overwhelming numbers.

I didn't use Ensign Redshirts in my X-COM games, I was obsessed with not having anyone die. Well, before chrysalids and ethereals started appearing... at that point natural selection was inevitable. 

[koro]

I just feel sending 6 operatives to tackle an alien invasion is a little bit underwhelming to be honest.
Starting at 4? Wow man, this isn't Space Cops. We're dealing with a global threat and SIX is the maximum we can spare per mission?

You're dealing with a global alien threat as the leader of a multinational black ops organization funded clandestinely by nations all over the world. It makes sense in that way that you're not rolling into every battle with dozens of troops.

Though I guess the new game subverts that in a way, since everyone at least looks like they're pretty heavily armed and armored.

[tmp]

I don't have a problem with smaller group sizes, either. JA2 and the Silent Storm games all had a group size of 6, and that worked fine even on large maps.

Yeah, my X-Com games typically had squads of maybe 8 tops as result of playing Laser Squad, JA and such, so this is not a problem for me. Having more units tended to draw out individual rounds too much for my liking.

[Ironwood]

Another reality check :

You know when you got to later levels, you just sent your Commander in alone with a psi-amp and a pistol.

Suck it up Pussies.

[HaemishM]

Steam has all the previous X-Com games on sale for $2.49 each today, if anyone is interested in any of them.

[Llyse]

Steam has all the previous X-Com games on sale for $2.49 each today, if anyone is interested in any of them.

Fark... more money to a Dead company...

I understand the reasoning to drop it to 6 but looking back at the last 7 or so posts the variety of play styles people had in XCom was part of it's charm.

With a cap of 6 it might be less like XCom more like JA2 or other games people mentioned.

Not that I wouldn't buy it anyway...

[WayAbvPar]

A lot to like, but still have major reservations. The squad size thing is irksome, especially if they leave out mobile weapons platforms. Those were my favorite! And, shockingly, I have a problem with the console-ized UI. I would literally pay an extra $10 for a UI created for kb+m. Fuck deep drilling into multiple menus and back out again because the fucking 360 controller can't right click. The only way I would play this on a console was if there was a robust multiplayer setup of some kind (XBL parties are just too easy and convenient!).

[Mrbloodworth]

As someone who spend a lot of time recently with the originals ( Terror from the deep being the best ) I do not mind smaller squads.

[Jayce]

I didn't use Ensign Redshirts in my X-COM games, I was obsessed with not having anyone die. Well, before chrysalids and ethereals started appearing... at that point natural selection was inevitable. 

Same here.

I'm really curious if this has any of the original games' charm. The first one was lightning in a bottle, and TFTD was just more lightning (or maybe underwater lightning).

[Merusk]

All the reviews I saw at the time said TFTD was just an exact copy of the original placed underwater so I never bought and played it.  What changed to make it superior?

[Sky]

All the reviews I saw at the time said TFTD was just an exact copy of the original placed underwater so I never bought and played it.  What changed to make it superior?

When considering awesome, "more of the same" is awesome.

[Ironwood]

Nothing.  That was fair criticism.

Trouble is, being underwater had charm, which was implemented well and, well, it was more of the same.

So I like it.

Also, drilling fucking lobstermen.  DRILLING THEM.

[Merusk]

All the reviews I saw at the time said TFTD was just an exact copy of the original placed underwater so I never bought and played it.  What changed to make it superior?

When considering awesome, "more of the same" is awesome.

Unless you have a limited budget because you're a broke-ass college student for whom that $50 is a good deal of supplies for your major.

Seems I made the correct decision at the time.

[jakonovski]

I finally bothered to read a preview and discovered this game has only scripted missions. Pessimism is truly the only way to survive in the world of modern gaming.

[Ironwood]

Define Scripted for me in this context ?

[tmp]

Guessing that refers to combat maps being hand-made rather than randomly put together by the game. On the other hand the devs claim there's enough of those made they won't repeat (often)

[jakonovski]

Define Scripted for me in this context ?

It's from a Finnish print mag so something may be lost in translation, but they say that "every mission is pre-scripted, and the AI works according to a tight script", and "however, the order of the missions is randomized for every playthrough".

[Ironwood]

I'm not hugely worried there.  The missions in the original didn't have much in the way of bulk and your mind just filled in the blanks.

Apart from the Terror Sites, the AI would usually just wander around randomly.   Even there, they would wander around randomly, making more Chrysalids, the cheeky wee fuckers.

As long as they don't do anything like the chaps in TftD who would find the smallest cupboard on board the luxury liner and HIDE THERE FOR 28 FUCKING TURNS.