Predictions: 1m+ players 3 days out; how about in January 2013?

[tmp]

As added support of this theory, Jedi Sages get the same abilities (technically, if you ignore a few animation delay issues), yet almost nobody plays Sages.

I didn't really see opinions that sages were "teh pwn" before the launch, though. It'd almost exclusively talk about sorcerers. It also never really mentioned the story, or the ship or anything you list as arguments for why the sorcerers were the right choice -- just that they could melt faces.

At least that's the extremely casual impression i've gotten, as i didn't bother to read the forums in depth. Suspect people who similarly skimmed over the available info could get similar impression.

I'd dare a guess these technical animation delay issues generated that specific, more selective word of mouth, and that in turn had large part in generating the numbers.

[Sjofn]

Pretty sure it was just the force lightning plus "lol ima a bad ass only pussies play republic" that made people go "zomg sorcerers" instead of "zomg sorcerers/sages."

[tmp]

Not enough Samuel L. Jackson clones in the pre-launch Republic imagery, in other words.

[Nevermore]

They picked sorcerers because their instant abilities are actually instant instead of having long-ass windup times.

[Sjofn]

Only one of my sage abilities has a "long ass wind up time," and it is an equally long-ass wind up time as a sorcerer. It's the AE knockback. My rock fliinging has to travel to the target, but it cannot be interupted in an infuriating way like the knockback can. The interupt is the same, the instant DoT is the same, the stun is the same, etc.

[Zetor]

Ah, the sorc AE knockback has that long-ass wind up time too? Good to know, time to joust me some sorcs. 

I've mostly come to terms with Project having a delay. It's still annoying as fuck in pve (it doesn't stun/interrupt normal mobs until it hits!), but in pvp it allows me to set up a mini-burst as a healer by using project -> force slow or mind crush.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, the inquisitors do the big flip jump thing too.

[rattran]

Normal gameplay on the sorc is fun. More fun than any of the melee I've tried, and it's more visceral feeling than Merc. Force Lightning someone to death, or retard-gangsta-sideways-crossed-pistols? No question which is more fun.

[apocrypha]

Having succumbed badly to my usual altitis I've now played 4 chars to 25+ (Sorc, Powertech, Juggernaut, Sniper) and would say that for pure "fun" factor the Sorc and Powertech are neck and neck.

Heal specced sorc with a melee DPS companion (Ashara) is just loltastic. Lightning from the fingers never gets old and a near-immortal companion makes things hilarious. I totally understand why it's a popular class. Plus it fits the role of Sith really, really well. Being horribly evil goes so, so perfectly with copious electricity. "Brackets kill him brackets" has become a bit of an in-joke among the couple of friends I'm playing with.

[Nevermore]

Only one of my sage abilities has a "long ass wind up time," and it is an equally long-ass wind up time as a sorcerer. It's the AE knockback. My rock fliinging has to travel to the target, but it cannot be interupted in an infuriating way like the knockback can. The interupt is the same, the instant DoT is the same, the stun is the same, etc.

Project has a long-ass windup time for Consulars but the Inquisitor mirror is instant.  While it can't be interrupted, it is possible, comically enough, to use space vanish to prevent the rock from hitting you if you can activate it before the rock actually reaches you.  Compare to Telekinetic Throw, which is also rocks but those arrive functionally instantly.

It's also a problem because Project has a lot of talents that modify it or have procs associated with it.  Two that don't play well with the animation and travel time are Particle Acceleration procs and Force Potency charges.  Both of those only trigger when the damage is applied to the target, not when the ability is cast.  Because of this, the proc or charge can expire before the target is actually hit and thus not apply, even if you cast the ability before the buff wears off.  That may sound like a nitpick, but it happens a lot more than you think when you're having to deal with that 1.5 second global cooldown, and it's something Inquisitors don't have to deal with.

[eldaec]

I know smugglers get especially antsy about the mirror class animation differences, because an agent can fire sniper and queue explosive charge (high damage triggered by next dmg to mob) and the snipe will immediately explode the charge, whereas this trick doesn't work with sabotage charge because the animation runs longer. I guess EA overlooked the problem because of lazy GCD thinking.

After AoC I really didn't expect another set of devs to make that mistake. But I guess this is what happens if your research consists of just one other game.

[Wolf]

Seriously though, sloppy implementation of a valid design does not equal crappy design. Play all the animations you want, just fire off the effect as soon as GCD allows it and all those problems won't exist.

[Stabs]

I originally went for Operative but I messed up and picked Sniper thinking one could change Advanced Class then took it to 34 and got bored. Switching to Sith Sorc I noticed the following:

- more damage
- powerful talent synergy in the Wrath-Chain Lightning spec
- cc that works on anything, not just Droids
- heals
- tougher companion tank (even before I start healing him).

With the Agent I'd struggle to beat a Yellow same level mob. With the Sorc I can beat Yellows without my Companion and beat Epic Mobs with him.

I'm not a person for cosmetic effects. I'd play a blob if it had better stats. I'm definitely sticking with the Sorc.

[El Gallo]

A lot of people will walk away from the game thinking they had a good time and they got more than their money's worth out of it.   They'll find more content in patches and expansions compelling.  The largest majority of people will quit over missing quality of life features that can easily be added in a patch.

I think you're right about this.  I didn't leave this game with that AO/Conan/Warhammer/AC2 "lolz what a joke" feeling.  More of a "well, that would be a pretty decent beach if the sand wasn't covered with used condoms and hypodermic needle, and I wasn't being mercilessly chewed on by mosquitoes the whole day" feeling.    If I heard they gave the place a thorough cleaning and fumigation, I'd go back to check it out.  Especially if WoW was in a weak period.

The sluggish control, extreme ability bloat, punishing travel, and need to spend all my combat time squinting at the buff bar could possibly be fixed in a few patches.  The "omg every single zone is Vanilla Barrens" quest content would more likely take an expansion, but I could probably fight through that if the L50 content was worth it.  I'd never level an alt, but I'm not really an alt guy anyway.

TL;DR, the rocky start is big missed opportunity, but not rocky enough that people won't come back if they straighten up.

[El Gallo]

Re: sage v sorceror.  The first time someone told me that there's a jedi ranged dps class based entirely around throwing pebbles at bad guys, I thought they were joking.  It would seriously be cooler if sages just shot rainbows out their ass.  I have to believe that's at least part of the reason behind the disparity.

[01101010]

Re: sage v sorceror.  The first time someone told me that there's a jedi ranged dps class based entirely around throwing pebbles at bad guys, I thought they were joking.  It would seriously be cooler if sages just shot rainbows out their ass.  I have to believe that's at least part of the reason behind the disparity.

I'd rather have tiny oil cans. 

[Mrbloodworth]

You guys may want to play the latest version. Most reports: Delays gone.

[Lantyssa]

Re: sage v sorceror.  The first time someone told me that there's a jedi ranged dps class based entirely around throwing pebbles at bad guys, I thought they were joking.  It would seriously be cooler if sages just shot rainbows out their ass.  I have to believe that's at least part of the reason behind the disparity.

It doesn't feel as good, either.  With Shock it's instant and feels like you're zapping something right then and there.  With the boulder throw it has to animate the object being pulled up and firing off.  I can be tabbed to a new target and killing it at the same time the rock hits the one I threw it at.

Then there is a continuous lightning spray versus a hail of stones...

I was planning on going Shadow anyways, but the feel of it is reinforcing that decision.

[Nebu]

I was planning on going Shadow anyways, but the feel of it is reinforcing that decision.

If you're going to stick to PvE, then shadow is wonderful.  If you like to pvp, shadow is a lesson in futility, particularly in huttball.  Stealth is no replacement for force leap and your damage after openers is pretty poor considering how squishy the class it.  If you want to play a sneak, go scoundrel.  It's harder to level but more rewarding in the endgame as you have so many tools.

As for Sage/Sorc, there are some little things that drive me crazy.  For one there is a delay in the insta DD for the sage insta dd that makes it almost unplayable in pvp.  You grab a boulder from the ground and hurl it.  The animation delays the damage of the "insta" by a second or two.  The sorc merely zaps you with electricity needing almost no animation time.  The throwing pebbles thing for the sage is equally bad.  

[Rokal]

What I played of the consular story was also agonizingly boring. I figured Nolan North as the voice actor would turn it into one of the more enjoyable storylines but he did little to liven things up. When a large part of your game focuses on story, it's kind of a big deal.

[Zetor]

I just finished the consular story, and it was... different. In the trooper storyline I felt like I was playing Shepard from Mass Effect 2.5, saving the universe one planet at the time. Straightforward and action-packed, not many plot twists to speak of.

The consular one was heavy with subtle machinations and politics and it felt I was playing someone behind the scenes instead of the badass soldier collar-grabbing Darths and burninating the empire - I'm not sure the story translated well to a MMOG, is all.

[Sky]

for pure "fun" factor the Sorc and Powertech are neck and neck.

Having done a Shieldtech to 50, it's a really, really fun class. I'm taking a break to alt it up a bit, but having decent damage, great survivability and both push and pull (grapple and jet charge) never gets old. Jumped on a bit to keep the rotations sharp in my mind and had a lot of fun bashing stuff around Ilum. Getting beat on by a jedi sentinel was funny, so many fast hits that it kept venting my heat and resetting my rocket punch. I think every other attack was a rocket punch.

Main gripe is the lack of interrupts. Fighting a sage is tough because I barely have the dps to stay ahead of their heals when I can't interrupt them (maybe 1 of 3). And of course the bigger issues of how defense and shielding is being handled, but that's beyond a class issue.

[Nebu]

Main gripe is the lack of interrupts. Fighting a sage is tough because I barely have the dps to stay ahead of their heals when I can't interrupt them (maybe 1 of 3). And of course the bigger issues of how defense and shielding is being handled, but that's beyond a class issue.

Powertech and Merc really get screwed in the interupt dept from what I'm aware of.  They do make up for it in damage though.

[tmp]

I just finished the consular story, and it was... different. In the trooper storyline I felt like I was playing Shepard from Mass Effect 2.5, saving the universe one planet at the time. Straightforward and action-packed, not many plot twists to speak of.

The consular one was heavy with subtle machinations and politics and it felt I was playing someone behind the scenes instead of the badass soldier collar-grabbing Darths and burninating the empire - I'm not sure the story translated well to a MMOG, is all.

I really like the consular story (up to mid of act 3 so far). It's more of a drama than action movie, and in SW terms perhaps closest to the Revenge of the Sith with its stretches of buildup and focus on character interactions. And they even have the "TKing fag" parts

The female consular VA is generally great too; both the overall tone and the way she manages to put emotions in her lines when appropriate that feel genuine, rather than ham-fisted.

[Zetor]

Main gripe is the lack of interrupts. Fighting a sage is tough because I barely have the dps to stay ahead of their heals when I can't interrupt them (maybe 1 of 3). And of course the bigger issues of how defense and shielding is being handled, but that's beyond a class issue.

Powertech and Merc really get screwed in the interupt dept from what I'm aware of.  They do make up for it in damage though.

In my vanguard pvp spec I have my main interrupt on a 6 second cooldown, charge (also interrupts) on a 30 second cooldown, neural surge (aoe stun+interrupt) on a 45 second cooldown, and cryo grenade on a 1min cooldown... I can usually lock a healer out of doing any heals (except for instants and one tick of healing trance) for a looooong while. The main interrupt has a 4-second lockout too, which means that hitting something like Tracer Missile / Dark Infusion / Thunder Strike (are there any pvp sorcs speccing lightning instead of madness?) with it can ruin someone's day.

[rattran]

I've been doing even amounts of pve/pvp on my sorc, and am lightning spec'd. It's not optimal, but it's fun.

[Nebu]

I've been doing even amounts of pve/pvp on my sorc, and am lightning spec'd. It's not optimal, but it's fun.

They really need to have different spells for bubble self and bubble others.  The bubble self needs to be on a longer cooldown.  Playing my level 26 sorc is just too easy in the warfronts compared to nearly every other class I play.

[Fordel]

Main gripe is the lack of interrupts. Fighting a sage is tough because I barely have the dps to stay ahead of their heals when I can't interrupt them (maybe 1 of 3). And of course the bigger issues of how defense and shielding is being handled, but that's beyond a class issue.

Powertech and Merc really get screwed in the interupt dept from what I'm aware of.  They do make up for it in damage though.

In my vanguard pvp spec I have my main interrupt on a 6 second cooldown, charge (also interrupts) on a 30 second cooldown, neural surge (aoe stun+interrupt) on a 45 second cooldown, and cryo grenade on a 1min cooldown... I can usually lock a healer out of doing any heals (except for instants and one tick of healing trance) for a looooong while. The main interrupt has a 4-second lockout too, which means that hitting something like Tracer Missile / Dark Infusion / Thunder Strike (are there any pvp sorcs speccing lightning instead of madness?) with it can ruin someone's day.

You doing a split build?

Otherwise the interrupt is 8 seconds reuse and Storm (our charge) is 15 second reuse.

[Sky]

Oh, I forget I get carbonite. Does that interrupt gold and champs (the only things worth interrupting)?

Shoulder slam doesn't work on gold and champs, total bone on that one.

[Mazakiel]

I just finished the consular story, and it was... different. In the trooper storyline I felt like I was playing Shepard from Mass Effect 2.5, saving the universe one planet at the time. Straightforward and action-packed, not many plot twists to speak of.

The consular one was heavy with subtle machinations and politics and it felt I was playing someone behind the scenes instead of the badass soldier collar-grabbing Darths and burninating the empire - I'm not sure the story translated well to a MMOG, is all.

I really like the consular story (up to mid of act 3 so far). It's more of a drama than action movie, and in SW terms perhaps closest to the Revenge of the Sith with its stretches of buildup and focus on character interactions. And they even have the "TKing fag" parts

The female consular VA is generally great too; both the overall tone and the way she manages to put emotions in her lines when appropriate that feel genuine, rather than ham-fisted.

The sorcerer storyline feels pretty similar.  For the most part, it's "War?  What war?  I've got my personal schemes I'm dealing with, the Republic can wait."  Though the later parts touch on galactic events a bit more.  I've got the last segment to start, though, so maybe it'll tie into the overall war plot more. 

As to the sorcerer in general, I played an assassin to the mid 30s, and finally rolled up a sorcerer instead.  Partly due to the fact that the class plot felt sorta nonsensical as an assassin, and partly because I was sorta underwhelmed by how it was playing towards the end.  I think assassin would have worked better if they could have tied it to the sith warrior instead, both mechanically and storywise.  What little I've played of the warrior storyline seems like it would fit an assassin better than the inquisitor plot. 

Plus, as many have said, lightning.  It's just incredibly satisfying to shoot lightning at stuff.  'UNLIMITED POOOOWEEEEER!' and all that. 

[Threash]

Main gripe is the lack of interrupts. Fighting a sage is tough because I barely have the dps to stay ahead of their heals when I can't interrupt them (maybe 1 of 3). And of course the bigger issues of how defense and shielding is being handled, but that's beyond a class issue.

Powertech and Merc really get screwed in the interupt dept from what I'm aware of.  They do make up for it in damage though.

Powertech has an interrupt on an 8s cd, can be talented to 6.  As well as a 1min cd stun and 45s cd aoe stun.  Rocket charge and grapple interrupt also but we can't use either in close range.

[Zetor]

Main gripe is the lack of interrupts. Fighting a sage is tough because I barely have the dps to stay ahead of their heals when I can't interrupt them (maybe 1 of 3). And of course the bigger issues of how defense and shielding is being handled, but that's beyond a class issue.

Powertech and Merc really get screwed in the interupt dept from what I'm aware of.  They do make up for it in damage though.

In my vanguard pvp spec I have my main interrupt on a 6 second cooldown, charge (also interrupts) on a 30 second cooldown, neural surge (aoe stun+interrupt) on a 45 second cooldown, and cryo grenade on a 1min cooldown... I can usually lock a healer out of doing any heals (except for instants and one tick of healing trance) for a looooong while. The main interrupt has a 4-second lockout too, which means that hitting something like Tracer Missile / Dark Infusion / Thunder Strike (are there any pvp sorcs speccing lightning instead of madness?) with it can ruin someone's day.

You doing a split build?

Otherwise the interrupt is 8 seconds reuse and Storm (our charge) is 15 second reuse.

Yea, messing around with 25/13/2+1. Also forgot Harpoon, that's another interrupt. :p

[Nebu]

Powertech has an interrupt on an 8s cd, can be talented to 6.  As well as a 1min cd stun and 45s cd aoe stun.  Rocket charge and grapple interrupt also but we can't use either in close range.

Stuns don't interrupt bosses in hard modes and many encounters require interrupting key abilities for success.  Our merc complains that he has nothing to interrupt bosses.  Is this true?

[Zetor]

Mercs and commandos don't get interrupts, vanguards and powertechs do.

e: the most interrupt-heavy encounter I had so far was the last fight in the trooper storyline. Two silver elites who SPAM heals at each other. Ended up having to get one to temporarily LOS the other and use all my interrupts in succession (incl. charge and harpoon), my long cooldown that resets my stun and use the stun again so the interrupt was up again. 'Course then I wasn't specced for the 6-second interrupt, would've made it easier.  I suppose commandos deal with that encounter by CCing one of the mobs and bursting the other.

[Nebu]

Mercs and commandos don't get interrupts, vanguards and powertechs do.

Ouch.  So mercs can't interrupt a boss and they can't heal effectively enough to play healers.  Sounds like the class needs to trade tracer missle for some utility.