What's going right/wrong with launch...

[Pezzle]

Login early, get one of those bobbing birds to hit your move key every few seconds and point at a corner of a cantina.  You'll be all set for whenever you want to play and no queue. *

 

* I knew someone who did this in EQ to level sense heading.

Rygar, original Nintendo, with one of the badass controllers and enemies that always respawned and came at you in the same pattern.  Taped down the attack key and joystick so you were crouched, turned off the tv and went away for a day or so, came back at some absurd level.

I loved Rygar.  That trick was almost required to have a shot at beating the game.  It also worked in The Adventure of Link.

[Tyrnan]

Stephen Reid answers a few questions here


Not really much new there, just confirmation for most things. Number 8 was the most surprising though. While I'm not sure we need a cross-server LFD tool, a server based LFG tool seems like a bit of a no-brainer but it seems BW subscribes to the "spamming /1 LF Healer builds community" theory 

[apocrypha]

Not really much new there, just confirmation for most things. Number 8 was the most surprising though. While I'm not sure we need a cross-server LFD tool, a server based LFG tool seems like a bit of a no-brainer but it seems BW subscribes to the "spamming /1 LF Healer builds community" theory 

That's very odd and smacks of there being another reason behind the decision that they don't want to articulate just now. Along the lines of "we don't want people to level just by chain-running FPs" or even "FPs use too high a proportion of server resources so we want to artificially limit the rate at which they're run".

I mean, the gulf between WoW's LFG tool and every single other thing they'd tried in the years prior to it is huge. All of a sudden it just worked and everyone, unanimously, said "finally Blizzard have got it right". I honestly don't believe any dev is short-sighted enough to miss that lesson unless there's an ulterior motive.

[Tyrnan]

That's the thing, I can understand the reservations people have about a WoW-esque cross-server LFD tool (lack of accountability, zero group interaction, world feeling deserted, diminishes server community, etc). I have no idea if those things are being blown out of proportion or not since I never experienced them firsthand, but I can see how they could be problems.

But something like the LFG tool in CoH for example? I'm really not seeing any downsides to that system unless, as you say, there are other reasons that they don't want to disclose. Maybe they're going to release some sort of MT-based group finder that's integrated into Origin 

[Rendakor]

My big complaint with the current (lack of) LFG system is that all of the Flashpoints are accessed from the Fleet, where there is very little to do besides spam /1. If the FPs were accessible from (for example) either the Fleet or the level appropriate planet, at least you could be questing while spamming.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Welcome to the new shit, same as the old shit.

[Nevermore]

My big complaint with the current (lack of) LFG system is that all of the Flashpoints are accessed from the Fleet, where there is very little to do besides spam /1. If the FPs were accessible from (for example) either the Fleet or the level appropriate planet, at least you could be questing while spamming.

You mean like how all the planets after Coruscant that I've done so far have a shuttle that heads back to the fleet with a droid giving the level-appropriate flashpoint mission right next to it?

[01101010]

My big complaint with the current (lack of) LFG system is that all of the Flashpoints are accessed from the Fleet, where there is very little to do besides spam /1. If the FPs were accessible from (for example) either the Fleet or the level appropriate planet, at least you could be questing while spamming.

You'd then need to kill the timer of the Fleet Pass to something a tad more reasonable than 18 hours, or whatever the fuck it is at now. If you are a healer or tank and run say HammerStation and go back to your planet to quest, that's pretty much it unless you want to port back to spacedock, spend a few minutes running to your ship, another 1-2 minutes on your ship loading back into Fleet, then darting over to the elevator... 18 hours is fine if you are limiting yourself to one run a day of stuff that you want easy access to, but sometimes if you are being asked every few hours to tank/heal/dps.

[Paelos]

I just use my guild for flashpoints. Maybe pull in someone standing near the entrance.

[Venkman]

I mean, the gulf between WoW's LFG tool and every single other thing they'd tried in the years prior to it is huge. All of a sudden it just worked and everyone, unanimously, said "finally Blizzard have got it right". I honestly don't believe any dev is short-sighted enough to miss that lesson unless there's an ulterior motive.

I don't think it's short-sighted. I just think right now they've wrapped themselves in a bubble of current-success, so they feel like they have the same shot to learn the lessons in the same sequence WoW did. They may be vaguely aware that they can't take as long to learn them of course (took how long before WoW's LFG tool was done right?). But it's only been two weeks since launch and, really, they're still launching, givne their focus on mission critical bugs they know to be affecting thousands and every one of their forum responses being not-allowed-to-ask-the-Devs-yet responses.

I wouldn't be surprised if after the crunch mode they've been in, most of them have taken this week and next off anyway. Yes the game is live and many are being affected by issues. And yes this is EA's most important launch probably this year and next. But you can only stay in full/overtime-time developement more for so long before the senses get too dulled to be useful anyway :)

[Der Helm]

Fleet Pass

Someone in guild chat mentioned buyable Fleet Pass consumable or something, where do I get them and for how much ?

[01101010]

Fleet Pass

Someone in guild chat mentioned buyable Fleet Pass consumable or something, where do I get them and for how much ?

You get the emergency one once you finish your starter planet, something like an 18hour timer on it. The purchasable one was from a vendor... fuck all if I can recall which one. I wanna say the security key vendor, but that seems wrong.

And the android security code generator is nice, but feels cumbersome. Not sure why though. Maybe I got used to WoW's iPod key just generating it on open. Still works.

[Rendakor]

You mean like how all the planets after Coruscant that I've done so far have a shuttle that heads back to the fleet with a droid giving the level-appropriate flashpoint mission right next to it?

As Mr. Binary said, even with the shuttle (or your own ship) back to the Fleet it's a pain in the ass. The shuttles are always at the spaceport, which is either a 30m CD or a 5-10m trip away from all but the planetary intro questlines. There should be something in the main city on each planet (the area with the trainers, vendors, etc.) that offers the FP quest and quick travel directly to it.

[Nevermore]

Of the three direct to Fleet shuttles I've seen (Taris, Nar Shaddaa, Tatooine), not one of them has been at the spaceport.  They've all been farther out in the zone, in a central location not far from a speeder bike point.

[rattran]

Iirc, the DK one is by The Wall, so right off a speeder line.

[trias_e]

Blows me away that WoW's LFD system is considered 'unanimously' a success.  I hated it and many people I knew did as well.  I think the best solution is a server-wide LFG window where you can easily put exactly what you want to do and what role you are willing to play.  Filterable and sortable.  This way, you actually need to talk and get to know people which instantly raises the quality of grouping past anonymous bullshittery.   Most importantly you can avoid the copious amounts of bad players/asshats out there.

[caladein]

You get the emergency one once you finish your starter planet, something like an 18hour timer on it. The purchasable one was from a vendor... fuck all if I can recall which one. I wanna say the security key vendor, but that seems wrong.

It is from a Security Key Vendor.

On that note, once you get a few companions with you, go check out the Ilum Security Key Vendor (it's inside the orbital dock, no danger).  There are a few more customizations on it than there are on the Fleet's one.  (Presumably to avoid spoilers.)

[Der Helm]

It is from a Security Key Vendor.

 

[caladein]

Good incentive to get one!

Edit: On a serious note, I've had them now for a few days and I actually haven't used one.  Don't go back to Fleet very often now that I've stopped doing Warzones for the most part.

[luckton]

It's free on Droid and iOS now, and the keyfob is $4.  There's really no excuse.

[Der Helm]

It's free on Droid and iOS now, and the keyfob is $4.  There's really no excuse.

Just checked, it's 12,99 € for me.   

[calapine]

It's free on Droid and iOS now, and the keyfob is $4.  There's really no excuse.

There is, if I understand it correctly you have to enter the password AND the security key every time you log into the game or the forums. Which probably breaks the auto-fill in feature of the browser, if the security key keeps changing. As someone who keeps forgetting passwords and constantly mislays the phone, thats just too much effort.

[Amaron]

There is, if I understand it correctly you have to enter the password AND the security key every time you log into the game or the forums. Which probably breaks the auto-fill in feature of the browser, if the security key keeps changing. As someone who keeps forgetting passwords and constantly mislays the phone, thats just too much effort.

That's the reason they have that vendor basically.   The security cost that Blizzard must deal with is something they want to avoid.   They are looking to effectively force people to use the key.   I wouldn't be surprised if more important stuff ends up on that vendor eventually.

This of course will lead to a proliferation of keyloggers on smart phones.

[Dark_MadMax]

I mean, the gulf between WoW's LFG tool and every single other thing they'd tried in the years prior to it is huge. All of a sudden it just worked and everyone, unanimously, said "finally Blizzard have got it right". I honestly don't believe any dev is short-sighted enough to miss that lesson unless there's an ulterior motive.

Honestly what is the problem doing LFG old fashioned way. I never understood this. Blizzard like LFG tool destroys immersion and destroys communities. I never ever had real problem finding groups using group and/or who tool.  But then again I dont chain run instances to milk em for loot I guess

[Maledict]

Because spending 45 minutes spamming chat channels stood in one spot is not fun gameplay. Most people don't have 2 hours at a time to find a pick up group and stick it through to the end. It's a bad way of designing a game - especially given the idiocy of the instances only being available from the fleet which prevents you actually playing the game whilst trying to find a group.

[Montague]

Because spending 45 minutes spamming chat channels stood in one spot is not fun gameplay. Most people don't have 2 hours at a time to find a pick up group and stick it through to the end. It's a bad way of designing a game - especially given the idiocy of the instances only being available from the fleet which prevents you actually playing the game whilst trying to find a group.

And then those folks that don't have the time queue up for LFD and bitch and scream whenever the first little thing goes wrong or if someone isn't overgeared for the instance. That's fun gameplay?

[caladein]

We've had this argument a dozen times now.

While I am firmly in favor of cross-server machine matchmaking, I think that SWTOR may be better situated than other contemporary Dikus to not be completely awful down the line (in my opinion!) without such a system:

- The level distribution may be flatter as a result of the popularity of alts.
- The smaller group size.
- Class design is rather straight forward and lacking in obvious ugly ducklings.
- The pre-launch guild assignment may have put a slight dent in server balancing issues.

I don't think there's nearly enough mitigation for the worst case scenario (mid-to-late levels, wrong side of a heavily unbalanced server) to get to play a non-trivial amount of the game at the appropriate level but it will help.

[Kail]

And then those folks that don't have the time queue up for LFD and bitch and scream whenever the first little thing goes wrong or if someone isn't overgeared for the instance. That's fun gameplay?

There was plenty of whining and elitism pre-LFG tool, too.

The probem with complaining about the LFG tool is that it's like the whole UO PK argument: as soon as there was an alternative to standing around town spamming "DPS LFG BRD" for an hour, people dropped it like it was on fire.  The old channels are still there, you can still stand around in town and take twenty minutes put together your community based groups if you want, the only thing is other people aren't forced to do it if they want to run groups.  Any time there's an option to either force everyone do things one way or have a lot of choices with how to do them, I'm going to have to side with the alternative that gives me more options.  Forcing people to play a way they don't enjoy because you personally find it more fun does not strike me as winning game design.

[Dark_MadMax]

Because spending 45 minutes spamming chat channels stood in one spot is not fun gameplay. Most people don't have 2 hours at a time to find a pick up group and stick it through to the end. It's a bad way of designing a game - especially given the idiocy of the instances only being available from the fleet which prevents you actually playing the game whilst trying to find a group.

So you saying you dont have 2 hours to run a flashpoint (many of them take about ~1 hour anyway on perfect run) ? Fact that it takes a little bit of time and effort to find a group assures people wouldnt quit on wipe after bad pull.  The only thing I agree with is that LFG channels should be global, not just the imperial fleet . I  dont chain run instances in MMOs, I ran them once per character or so, my experience been positive in game swith no WoW like LFG tool and I like it this way

[Azuredream]

Fact that it takes a little bit of time and effort to find a group assures people wouldnt quit on wipe after bad pull.

I don't agree with this reasoning at all, in fact you could say that if it's easy to quickly replace people that quitters are even LESS of a problem.

[Venkman]

So you saying you dont have 2 hours to run a flashpoint (many of them take about ~1 hour anyway on perfect run) ?

No. They're saying they don't have an hour to stand around trying to build a group just so they can spend the next 45 minutes running the Flashpoint.

This is very simple. If there's a better way to do something, and someone implements it, that becomes the reference standard simply by virtue of it becoming popular. After that point it's just the semantics of philosopher traditionalists pissing into the wind.

[Mrbloodworth]

You guys know you can flag yourself LFG and also write what you are wanting to do...ETC. Yeah?

[Koyasha]

Blows me away that WoW's LFD system is considered 'unanimously' a success.  I hated it and many people I knew did as well.  I think the best solution is a server-wide LFG window where you can easily put exactly what you want to do and what role you are willing to play.  Filterable and sortable.  This way, you actually need to talk and get to know people which instantly raises the quality of grouping past anonymous bullshittery.   Most importantly you can avoid the copious amounts of bad players/asshats out there.

This exists.  People need to use it.  Just go into who, and there's a checkbox to set yourself LFG, a comment box to give yourself a comment (to specify what you're LFG for).  Then people can search.  If I'm LFG for Hammer station I can put 'Hammer Station' in my comment, and anyone who does a search for 'LFG Hammer' will see me.

The only real improvement I think needs to be made is having the ability to, if you are in a group and someone else in your group interacts with the mission terminal at the fleet, get the option to have a shuttle dispatched to instantly transport you to mission departures on the station.

[sam, an eggplant]

This exists.  People need to use it.  Just go into who, and there's a checkbox to set yourself LFG, a comment box to give yourself a comment (to specify what you're LFG for).  Then people can search. 

This type of LFG system is not exactly innovative, and quite simply has never worked well. The only one that actually works, that people actually use, is WoW's implementation.

[Koyasha]

This type of LFG system is not exactly innovative, and quite simply has never worked well. The only one that actually works, that people actually use, is WoW's implementation.

I think it worked well in both EQ and CoX, both of the games that implemented it correctly while I was playing them.  I never had real difficulty finding groups to do what I wanted with those systems, unless what I wanted to do was rare or unpopular.  Now, it wouldn't hurt to add the ability to just select instances from a checklist, so you don't have to bother typing the ones you want, but it's basically the best LFG system I know of, assuming you actually want to interact with the people you're grouped with.

If they're considering the dungeon finder type system, instead of putting in something like that, they may as well just let you take three companions with you into missions.  The effect would be the same, because with WoW's dungeon finder, the only difference between playing with NPC's and playing with other players, is that the NPC's are likely to be more competent.

Edit: Also, I think it wouldn't hurt if they made the ability to set yourself LFG more front-and-center.  Create something explaining it that people would have to do.  Maybe a sidequest like the one that pops up when you get a modifiable weapon, where you receive a reward for reading the lore item (well, opening it, but whatever).  In this case, they could attach a reward to flagging yourself LFG and getting a group afterward.  It would at least show everyone that there IS a way to flag yourself, because it seems like a lot of people do not know about this.