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Author Topic: Path of Exile  (Read 453760 times)
Phred
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Reply #420 on: April 25, 2013, 12:18:06 PM

One route? I wish my skill tree options were that unambiguous.

Since you didnt mention it by name are we really talking about this skill tree? http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100227155641/finalfantasy/images/9/94/Final_Fantasy_10_Sphere_Grid.svg
Yegolev
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Reply #421 on: April 25, 2013, 01:29:04 PM

Pretty sure he was talking about PoE.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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schild
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Reply #422 on: April 25, 2013, 01:45:34 PM

There were definitely both good and bad things about PoE.

The skill tree has been discussed a lot already here, but I'm firmly in the "it's shite" camp. It could *easily* have been trimmed to 10% of its size and made the options much clearer in the process. The vast majority of people seem to follow cookie-cutter builds with minor variations anyway, which makes the huge diversity possible a total illusion. If you don't spec into high survivability you won't survive in end-game, end of story.

The loot was incredibly lack-lustre. Economy completely screwed and only any use to the grindiest of grinders. Seeing the public groups noticeboard composed *entirely* of trading groups points out the value of the AH in D3, although I don't think D3 got that right either, but that was more to do with poor itemisation and stats.

PoE strikes me as the game you get if you listen to those who complained the most loudly about D3. Neither is a good game but they're at opposite ends of the shit spectrum. Different shades of brown if you will. Somewhere inbetween the two is a great game, but what we've got instead is two mediocre games.

For anyone who hasn't played the game, this post is almost entirely wrong.

Is it? The skill tree is total shit. And pre-planning is completely necessary and following builds is really the only ideal way to go about it. It is the first crowd-sourced class system I've ever seen. And it blows.

The loot is hilarious shit. Grinding doesn't even start to describe it.

I kind of appreciate his last sentence. If everyone who bitched and moaned about Diablo 3, I could see Path to Exile being the game for those people. Do you care to elaborate on why you think the post is wrong? Because I'd LOVE to be convinced otherwise as this is probably my favorite mindless genre of game.
Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #423 on: April 25, 2013, 03:36:03 PM

Quote
It could *easily* have been trimmed to 10% of its size and made the options much clearer in the process

It could be trimmed down to where you only decide if you want to use CI or Iron Skin or whatever. There are relatively few build defining picks to make from the bigass tree. Except that for these kind of games all those other little stat choices are what end up mattering a great deal to the min/max mentality and are kind of the whole fucking game. Also the tree works because you need to decide how to get all the big stuff you want without sacrificing too much life/armor/energy etc.

Quote
The vast majority of people seem to follow cookie-cutter builds with minor variations anyway, which makes the huge diversity possible a total illusion.

This is bullshit and applies to every single game ever. This statement is indicative of the quality of the entire post. This is how every fucking game works because 99% of the player base likes that people are innovating new crazy shit and that it can be done but they only want to put a minor little tweak on something that works because they only have so much time/energy to devote.

e.g. MOBA's are incredibly complex and deep and have tons of team comp/item build/skill build variety and synergies possible. Almost everyone just follows guides and builds what they hear pros are building instead of innovating their own playstyle.

Quote
If you don't spec into high survivability you won't survive in end-game, end of story

Again. Welcome to gaming? Do you know how many builds could even attempt HC d3 Inferno at launch? Can I introduce you to the holy trinity? What the fuck exactly? You can play sub optimal shit all you want in any game but often there comes a point in an RPG with levels and stats and shit where you will hit the wall if you aren't using the right stats/spells/whatevers. This isn't unique and it isn't damning. I've said in this thread many times that they haven't even made melee viable yet for 70+ maps and they still have good variety. That's how good the variety is. This still might be his best point.

Quote
The loot was incredibly lack-lustre

Nope. There are insanely powerful uniques that you can build a character around which was one of the funnest things in D2 which for now is still the best loot game I know of to point to. Now the bar may be set really low because loot in TL1 was awful, its better but still meh in TL2 and the loot in D3 was a joke (only 2 stats mattered, the entire weapon dps is spell dps system etc.) but I can't pretend that this loot system is letting down the grand tradition of loot systems in ARPG's because it isn't. Its not perfect but that has a lot more to do with presentation because this game looks and feels like shit most of the time and you look like a rusty hobo.

Quote
Economy completely screwed and only any use to the grindiest of grinders

Now I know he's just mad at PoE for something. This is by far one of the more interesting and cool in-game economies I've seen. Not perfect and god knows I never did a ton of trading but there is no way any ARPG should use gold again after this. This just feels better and is cooler and fits the setting in more interesting ways. Gold is a boring thing to loot. Chaos Orbs are not. This takes us back to the good old SOJ days but in an intended way and there's no fucking way that's worse than real money auction house or auction house plus gold in a loot based game.

Also the gambling systems are superb, there are so many types of gambling you can engage in and it all fits together pretty well.

Quote
Somewhere inbetween the two is a great game, but what we've got instead is two mediocre games.

A valid conclusion for sure and one I agree with 100% but how he gets there smacks of some kind of butthurt.

In my opinion PoE isn't a great game because its the worst pacing in any major ARPG (feels slow and plodding) its at least as bad as TL2 though definitely better than TL1 in terms of feeling like you are actually hitting things with your clicks, weight or whatever we call that. Its not pretty and its not even very cool outside of a few zones and mobs. On top of those things it suffers badly from: your first few attempts can't be as fun as later when you actually know what the fuck is going on which is a bad way for games to play as it severely reduces the amount of people who end up playing them and means it requires a heavy investment of time before you play or playing time to learn all the systems well enough to not just blow your own dick off and be wasting your time making something that won't work or will die in HC this is why so many people are using cookie cutter, they can't learn to play using something that doesn't even work in the first place.

Fuck you Schild man, that may be the first time I've ever tried to sirbruce something and it sucked. How did he post like that all the time?

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
MrHat
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Reply #424 on: April 25, 2013, 04:54:36 PM

All I want is PoE's modifiable skillgem system in Diablo 3.

Which was what it was originally intended until it was 'too much inventory'.
Samprimary
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Reply #425 on: April 25, 2013, 05:35:44 PM

One route? I wish my skill tree options were that unambiguous.

Since you didnt mention it by name are we really talking about this skill tree? http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100227155641/finalfantasy/images/9/94/Final_Fantasy_10_Sphere_Grid.svg


PoE's, of course. i do legitimately wish it was less ambiguous, because more complexity in character build options really in practice means more opportunities to be suboptimal.
Phred
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Reply #426 on: April 25, 2013, 09:42:28 PM

Pretty sure he was talking about PoE.

I guess this threw me then. I think I missed the 2
I still play this occasionally and I like to dream that it is a proof of concept for a well-funded PoE 2
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #427 on: April 26, 2013, 09:42:43 AM

Games that at high difficulty are about high survivability builds or pre-defined roles of tank/healer/dps are fucking boring.

The end.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #428 on: April 26, 2013, 10:09:35 AM

You can't have high difficulty without squeezing out a lot of builds. The reason you need high whatever or holy trinity is because that's how you make the very hard content farmable. You COULD beat the content using some off the wall zany shit but it would take ten times as long and involve some frustrations and failures and guess what despite your nonsense people in every game gravitate to the easy path not the "more fun" but arduous one.

There was one guy who refused to not try to make melee work and managed to get HC melee builds into 70 maps. He seemed to be having fun. There is no rule against doing that. Its sub optimal but if its boring to be optimal... Oh wait you want both. You want your preferred playstyle to be optimal or better yet you want it *magic hand waving* to all work optimally so everyone can build however the fuck they want and it doesn't matter because it all works! Nothing doesn't work everything can clear all the content! Utopia! Except what you really have is a game that is just easy none of the content is hard and the min/max builds can clear it with their eyes closed. Which I bet is boring again, there's no endgame! This game is too trivially easy its boring!

Ohhhhh, I see.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Phred
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Reply #429 on: April 26, 2013, 12:08:50 PM

Except what you really have is a game that is just easy none of the content is hard and the min/max builds can clear it with their eyes closed. Which I bet is boring again, there's no endgame! This game is too trivially easy its boring!


This is the basic dichotomy of gaming. There seem to be 2 basic types of players, the special snowflake type who want to make up their own class and the follow the optimal path players who will min-max a build even if the game doesn't require it then quit because they've made the game boring for themselves. I guess the min-maxers are the most populous so they get catered to, making the game boring to the snowflake builders, because you will never get a min-maxer to stop min-maxing.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 12:10:35 PM by Phred »
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #430 on: April 26, 2013, 03:40:58 PM

At the point where "melee" characters become unviable, maybe you need to look into how you built your fucking game.  Look I understand not everyone can have every throwaway skill and expect to do well but you are taking things to extremes and that is not the point at all.  Saying "that's just how it is" is a huge cop out to making an end game viable for I dunno, HALF YOUR FUCKING CLASSES.


~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Samprimary
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Reply #431 on: April 26, 2013, 05:33:29 PM

Yeah the whole part where the last difficulty rungs simply Aren't For You if you are a melee class is, well, it speaks in testament to the failures of this game that eventually cap interest in it.

I want the game to be about mad crit pummeling my way through foes in a super exciting way forever so the difficulty levels I enjoy are pretty much on the low end. Destined to end, but still. Is a good time while it lasts.
Phred
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Reply #432 on: April 26, 2013, 07:09:17 PM

At the point where "melee" characters become unviable, maybe you need to look into how you built your fucking game.  Look I understand not everyone can have every throwaway skill and expect to do well but you are taking things to extremes and that is not the point at all.  Saying "that's just how it is" is a huge cop out to making an end game viable for I dunno, HALF YOUR FUCKING CLASSES.


But, but, there's that ONE GUY who makes it work so the rest of the people playing melee classes obviously just suck.
koro
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Reply #433 on: April 26, 2013, 07:16:39 PM

I'm glad that the developers are at least aware  of the Melee Problem and seem to have some sort of roadmap for addressing it.

Whether that'll come in time for anyone to care is another thing.
Dark_MadMax
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Reply #434 on: April 26, 2013, 07:19:19 PM

Games that at high difficulty are about high survivability builds or pre-defined roles of tank/healer/dps are fucking boring.

The end.

yeah the downside of poe skill balance is that this is your ultimate  build :

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgEAAdwCcQSzBS0MfQ6tEH8S4RRNFm8Y2xkuGYUaOBv6HRQhYCSqJd8n7SkuKaUt0jWGNuk6szrYOuE8LT38QKBDnEd-Sn1N2E3jUFBUSVXGWGNYr1nzW69fP2BLYSFlTWaeZ6Bwu3TtdPF4DXq4eu98uIFvhNmE74d2iPGMdozPj0aQVZ2qnjyeuaIApBmmV6cIp4SpbqvFrFmsqq6TtfK3PriTuc253b6KwBrE9saexq7G2M9l0NDUj90N4urjaudS52PsOO8O8B_yL_JF8932SPba-tL8xf4K_o_-v_ouewczVrel



Get kaom and you can use Ethereal Knives, Freezing Pulse, Spork, or Lightning arrow. They all work with this build and  this is pretty much your end game HC build for anything.Only difference is different animation but gameplay is also exact same  -spam your single linked skill into mobs
Hayduke
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Reply #435 on: April 26, 2013, 08:50:39 PM

I'm glad that the developers are at least aware  of the Melee Problem and seem to have some sort of roadmap for addressing it.

Whether that'll come in time for anyone to care is another thing.

I'm glad they're making happy talk about things now, but they should've wiped their forums when they transitioned to open beta.  Because most of the issues the game has today are issues the game had a year ago.
ezrast
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Reply #436 on: April 28, 2013, 08:25:51 AM

How many of you are running maps? Okay. That's how many of you should be complaining about what is and isn't viable at endgame. If you have a 114-point build it fucking better be able to do what ever you want, you're 20+ levels over the content. It's like complaining that WoW is shit because rogues have poorly-itemized 25-man hardmode Pandacrown Citadel gear.

There are plenty of reasons to dislike the game without going onto the official forum to find more. Although I must say, "you have to plan out your character" is, uh, a new one on me. Is the complaint about the magnitude of the power gap between well-built and poorly-built characters? The amount of time it takes? That the planning phase isn't as fun as in other ARPGs?
Dark_MadMax
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Reply #437 on: April 28, 2013, 08:36:09 AM

How many of you are running maps? Okay. That's how many of you should be complaining about what is and isn't viable at endgame. If you have a 114-point build it fucking better be able to do what ever you want, you're 20+ levels over the content. It's like complaining that WoW is shit because rogues have poorly-itemized 25-man hardmode Pandacrown Citadel gear.


I ran every single high level map and on my lvl 82 melee character. I also have bunch of lvl 70s . I am not sure what is this "114  point " BS. End game your gear determines your survivability to  a very large degree. No matter how high lvl you are and how good is you gear you still not immune to death either - there are tons of lvl90+ deaths  in HC ladders. There is also no high level melees in HC either

Quote
There are plenty of reasons to dislike the game without going onto the official forum to find more. Although I must say, "you have to plan out your character" is, uh, a new one on me. Is the complaint about the magnitude of
the power gap between well-built and poorly-built characters? The amount of time it takes? That the planning phase isn't as fun as in other ARPGs?

Complaint is that there is tiny subset of skills and build which are viable in game. Namely -ranged AOE spells reign supreme and HP stacking with Kaoms is head and shoulders above everything else. That is not to say other builds are not viable at all, its just balancing is very very poor
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 08:38:31 AM by Dark_MadMax »
March
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Reply #438 on: June 06, 2013, 06:56:02 AM

Patch 0.11 is out.  Everyone gets a use-it-or-lose-it respec.  I'm not at end-game, but my duelist respecced out of a lot of defensive passives and is now both more survivable and much more of a wrecking machine.  As I say, only one day at not at endgame, but there's definitely a difference for Melee characters.
Phred
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Reply #439 on: June 06, 2013, 07:11:30 AM

Also if you didn't play because you thought the looting mechanics sucked, they appear to have backed down from their 'fight for it' stance making a reservation system one of 3 selectable option for the group leader.
ezrast
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Reply #440 on: June 08, 2013, 06:21:08 PM

They nerfed health nodes across the board and lowered enemy damage to compensate, making every other node more viable. I'm not entirely sure how it plays out because I'm not about to jump into a high-level hardcore character without a warming-up period, but it looks like a good patch.
trias_e
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Reply #441 on: June 09, 2013, 02:42:23 PM

Oh man, the game is SO much better for melee characters now.  I actually feel powerful in act 1 with shit weapons!

You certainly still need to get a good amount of health nodes, but now it's a good idea to get evade/armor/block nodes as well.  I'm guessing the amount of nodes you want to spend on defense ends up being basically the same.  At least it's not just pure health any more.  That was quite boring.
Yegolev
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2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


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Reply #442 on: June 27, 2013, 09:09:04 AM

I'm really liking the new helmet graphics.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Druzil
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Reply #443 on: July 11, 2013, 07:48:46 AM

Started my first real character since early in Beta, so I had never been outside of Act 1.  Rolled on the new Onslaught league an made it up to level 50 on a Freeze Pulser.  Went to go do Cruel Vaal and got 1 shot smashed because my single target dps is really bad and I was getting impatient after 5 minutes of playing it safe.  I had 1500 health and over 1k armor and 40ish fire resist so thought I'd be ok.  Next time guess I'll cap my fire resist or do it in a party or something.  RIP.

Anyways, I think having been through the game once now I will level much faster this time.  Hopefully I can actually make it to merciless the second time around =)
Senses
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Reply #444 on: July 11, 2013, 03:10:55 PM

This game is fun and gives me the old diablo 1 fix I have missed for a long time.  I really think these guys are going to cash in on disheartened diablo 3 players and old gamers alike.  Of all the contenders in this genre, this is definitely the winner in my book.  I should add I have a level 66 marauder (2h mace) and really have no issues (yet?).  Im in act 3 merciless.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 03:12:28 PM by Senses »
Pennilenko
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Reply #445 on: July 11, 2013, 03:15:06 PM

Started my first real character since early in Beta, so I had never been outside of Act 1.  Rolled on the new Onslaught league an made it up to level 50 on a Freeze Pulser.  Went to go do Cruel Vaal and got 1 shot smashed because my single target dps is really bad and I was getting impatient after 5 minutes of playing it safe.  I had 1500 health and over 1k armor and 40ish fire resist so thought I'd be ok.  Next time guess I'll cap my fire resist or do it in a party or something.  RIP.

Anyways, I think having been through the game once now I will level much faster this time.  Hopefully I can actually make it to merciless the second time around =)

I am pretty certain that Vaal does lightning damage and not fire damage, also his lightning laser beam attack thing is a guaranteed stack of "takes extra damage" on you if he hits you with it.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
ezrast
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Reply #446 on: July 11, 2013, 07:06:11 PM

His overhead smash is part physical and part fire. The laser is deadly but if you're prepared with flasks you can usually survive one hit. The only way to avoid smash crit one-shots is by having insane defensive stats.
Druzil
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Reply #447 on: July 12, 2013, 11:11:46 AM

Yeah the laser wasn't too big of deal, I could take a few hits from that and both of my health pots remove shock stacks.

I think I need a better single target dps skill this time around to complement my freeze pulse.  Maybe fireball or ice spear.  That way I shouldn't even have to get that close to him.  I had ice spear on this guy but it wasn't linked to anything so it was fairly terrible.

More stash tabs or Steam Summer sale.. hmmm
trias_e
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Reply #448 on: July 13, 2013, 09:39:27 AM

You can always use fire trap and bear trap for that stuff you don't want to get close to.
Bann
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Reply #449 on: August 30, 2013, 08:34:47 AM

I fired this up again last weekend, it seems to have gotten way better since the last time I played. Melee is indeed viable, new helmet graphics go a long way. If anyone else is looking to dip a toe in again (or for the first time) now would be a good time to check it out. Season 4 starts today. I think I have this right: Seasons run for like a month. They are composed of different events. Events are things like create a new character and see how high you can level him in x amount of time. You get points for participation/final standings on your account. Once you reach certain point thresholds, you get an alt. art unique on your account. At the end of event, your event character converts to a normal character.

Yegolev
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Reply #450 on: September 03, 2013, 07:20:30 PM

That's pretty much it, challenges for points.  I'm way too casual for competing in those, but it is pretty cool.  Drops are better in the non-standard leagues as well.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Ashamanchill
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Reply #451 on: September 05, 2013, 09:56:15 AM

Is this game released yet? Or just beta still?

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March
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Reply #452 on: September 05, 2013, 06:13:44 PM

Yes.
Lucas
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Reply #453 on: September 10, 2013, 04:22:32 AM

Bar any delays, 1.0 (Release) will happen in six weeks (an official post regarding an upcoming patch confirms it):

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/518709

No character or stashes wipe.

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Rendakor
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Reply #454 on: September 10, 2013, 05:14:29 AM

Is 1.0 going to include Act IV?

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
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