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Author Topic: Path of Exile  (Read 453637 times)
ezrast
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Reply #385 on: April 22, 2013, 07:46:48 PM

You left click on mass quantities of things, which explode into piles of new pants gems that make your left click explode things with greater adroitness. What separates it from Diablo II for you?
Hayduke
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Reply #386 on: April 22, 2013, 08:27:23 PM

Is that even a serious question?
ezrast
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Reply #387 on: April 22, 2013, 08:48:33 PM

It's not exactly an unorthodox comparison.
Dark_MadMax
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Reply #388 on: April 22, 2013, 08:51:08 PM

You left click on mass quantities of things, which explode into piles of new pants gems that make your left click explode things with greater adroitness. What separates it from Diablo II for you?

Huge ass  skill tree.

 Also brutally stupid gamibling/currency system.
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Reply #389 on: April 22, 2013, 09:49:08 PM

Problem is as has been stated - the tree looks impressive, but when you actually look into it, it is mostly filler +5 to this, or +10 to that.

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Reply #390 on: April 22, 2013, 10:42:15 PM

I gave this another 20-30 hours of play.

This is not a good game. I don't get it. What is attracting people to it?

The crafting/currency system, gambling in general, races and skill trees are all inventions that others should be stealing for their games. Overall I have a hard time getting into it because visually its very unappealing and I never get the good feeling of wading through mobs massacring them in PoE. Smart builds are very plodding and deliberate killing machines instead of buzzsaws that bathe in blood like the more fun Diablo builds.

If we could get PoE's brain into D3's perfect 10 body we'd be onto something...

I may never get around to playing it again but I do appreciate that these guys had some really creative and smart idea people on their team and I hope they get more money to make more stuff in the future.

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Dark_MadMax
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Reply #391 on: April 22, 2013, 10:42:36 PM

Problem is as has been stated - the tree looks impressive, but when you actually look into it, it is mostly filler +5 to this, or +10 to that.

its because a lot of nodes are "travel" kind of nodes (which is how its balanced that you cant get best keystones from everywhere). Tree is good and has lot of interesting keystones (which define build) - more than any other game on the market. There are other kind of problems with build diversity in this game but they have nothing to do with the tree but rather with overall balance. Even with all the current issues you still can make  A LOT of diverse and interesting builds


My problem with the game was mainly that if you want gear up/level up end game for all those interesting builds you either need grind 24/7 for 3-4 months , spend real life cash (for RMT from 3d party sites) or be incredibly lucky (so lucky that you should be playing lottery instead of POE)
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Reply #392 on: April 23, 2013, 04:41:47 AM

I gave this another 20-30 hours of play.

This is not a good game. I don't get it. What is attracting people to it?
It's better than D3?

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Reply #393 on: April 23, 2013, 07:37:39 AM

In what way?

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Reply #394 on: April 23, 2013, 08:05:22 AM

Loot's better, economy is better, maps are better, honestly skill system/character building is better, loot's better, devs seem to be better connected to the community, it's free, did I mention the loot is better?

The only things I miss about D3 are the combat, individual loot, and drop in/out multiplayer. Everything else about it was and still is trash.

Not saying it's perfect: The economy has become centered around orbs that are so rare they may as well not exist, which is better than paying 400,000,000,000,000,000 gold or $10 for an upgrade but still sucks. The game becomes a dickpuncher at high difficulties to the point where the only viable builds favor survivability nodes over everything which sucks. However they do their netcode, they have sync issues I don't ever recall seeing in D3 past launch. And of course the combat doesn't feel quite as good as D3's but seriously fuck D3 I don't know if I care about that anymore.

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Reply #395 on: April 23, 2013, 10:44:10 AM

I never get the good feeling of wading through mobs massacring them in PoE. Smart builds are very plodding and deliberate killing machines instead of buzzsaws that bathe in blood like the more fun Diablo builds.


You can thank the "make it harder, challenge me" crowd that you find in most betas nowadays for that. It was more like Diablo 2 until a patch that gave mobs spells which was hugely overpowered. Since then it's been slowly reduced in difficulty but never back to how easy it was.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 10:47:36 AM by Phred »
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Reply #396 on: April 23, 2013, 10:46:19 AM

The economy has become centered around orbs that are so rare they may as well not exist,
Prior to the release of open beta it used to be possible to craft those rare orbs using 3 matching rares but it was determined by someone that that was too easy so now it's the way it is.
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Reply #397 on: April 23, 2013, 12:46:04 PM

I never get the good feeling of wading through mobs massacring them in PoE. Smart builds are very plodding and deliberate killing machines instead of buzzsaws that bathe in blood like the more fun Diablo builds.


You can thank the "make it harder, challenge me" crowd that you find in most betas nowadays for that. It was more like Diablo 2 until a patch that gave mobs spells which was hugely overpowered. Since then it's been slowly reduced in difficulty but never back to how easy it was.

No man its just the way the game is.

Compare how fast d3 skills move you around doing killing damage to how not fast most skill gems operate prior to being at least in a 4 link with powerful support gems. Basically only at the end game does a skill like EK or Freeze Pulse start to feel almost as fast and devastating.

There's the Wolverine Tornado Claw move that nobody really uses but compare that to two classes in d3 that can't help but move like crack addict ninjas (monk and dh).

Have you ever used the PoE shield charge skill? Its sooooo slow and ponderous seeming, that's just the way the game is. The mobs have something to do with it but the vast majority of the games skills especially while you level through your 20's and 30's in newb gear without 4+ links and ideal support gems feel very underwhelming and your character progresses by winning attrition battles or maintaining a strong tank not by just murdering the fuck out of anything that moves.

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Phred
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Reply #398 on: April 23, 2013, 01:00:14 PM


Have you ever used the PoE shield charge skill? Its sooooo slow and ponderous seeming, that's just the way the game is.
I think part of the reason for the slowness feel is that you have to wait for animations to complete before firing off another skill. I know you don't have to do that in either diablo 2 or 3 but in PoE  that's the way it works and it sucks. I tried lobbying for a fix for that (they know how to fix it because potions fire off the instant you hit them) so it's a design decision or something but it totally contributes to the slow feeling of the game.

I thought at first you were talking about the slowness you have to approach killing stuff as you said
Quote
and I never get the good feeling of wading through mobs massacring them in PoE
That isnt really anything to do with skill speed but more IMO because higher level mobs will 1 shot you if you charge in and try to mass kill them unless you go for a high survivability build which prefers defense and HP nodes over damage.
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Reply #399 on: April 23, 2013, 01:40:31 PM

90% of the spheres are incremental or stupid or both :(

Not to mention we made fun of Final Fantasy's Sphere for that also.

So, that doesn't explain anything really.

Edit: I'd also like to talk about the animation. Still trash. Not to mention it doesn't actually feel like you're ever doing anything. It's like floaty in the opposite way Fate is - they hit both extremes of doing a good job of making sure you never felt like you were actually hitting something when you actually did. Whereas in Diablo I crit a face and it straight explodes.
ezrast
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Reply #400 on: April 23, 2013, 02:06:28 PM

You can thank the "make it harder, challenge me" crowd that you find in most betas nowadays for that. It was more like Diablo 2 until a patch that gave mobs spells which was hugely overpowered. Since then it's been slowly reduced in difficulty but never back to how easy it was.
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Reply #401 on: April 23, 2013, 02:33:02 PM

Count me in the bunch that couldn't stay on PoE more than two hours and left with a desire to reinstall Diablo 3.
Don't get me wrong. I am sure all the things you say about the qualities of Path of Exile are true. But the game doesn't "play" right to me, so they don't make up for the mindless fun I look for on ARPG that I couldn't find here but it's right there in D3.

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Reply #402 on: April 23, 2013, 02:41:24 PM

I tried. I like the idea of the skill map thingy. I felt the minute to minute clicking was far too weak to keep me interested however. I managed to get into the jungle bit for a while in various attempts, but it just never struck me as something I would get home and think "fuck yeah, PoE time!"
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Reply #403 on: April 23, 2013, 07:04:20 PM

The discussion around this game and Diablo 3 has been superficial because nobody wants to admit that there are both positive and negative consequences to all their design decisions.  Part of the pain and suffering of the PoE skill tree is the grind and limited respecs that makes experimenting with it impossible, but it's also just inherently broken from a gameplay perspective because it makes the process of leveling so unexciting.  Maybe one point in 20 actually does something noticeable.  It's like they took the Diablo 2 system where you had to save all your points until level 30, when you could finally get the skill that actually mattered and dump everything into it and made it go on forever.  Diablo 3's system, which gives you a new skill or rune (or several) to play with at every single level until you hit max, seems like genius by comparison.  In general, the Path of Exile devs seem to have felt like including fun wasn't worth sacrificing what they saw as the long-term benefits of their design.
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Reply #404 on: April 23, 2013, 09:03:01 PM

I disagree with what you said.

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Reply #405 on: April 23, 2013, 10:59:20 PM

You can thank the "make it harder, challenge me" crowd that you find in most betas nowadays for that. It was more like Diablo 2 until a patch that gave mobs spells which was hugely overpowered. Since then it's been slowly reduced in difficulty but never back to how easy it was.
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« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 11:01:19 PM by Phred »
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Reply #406 on: April 24, 2013, 12:27:25 AM

There were definitely both good and bad things about PoE.

The skill tree has been discussed a lot already here, but I'm firmly in the "it's shite" camp. It could *easily* have been trimmed to 10% of its size and made the options much clearer in the process. The vast majority of people seem to follow cookie-cutter builds with minor variations anyway, which makes the huge diversity possible a total illusion. If you don't spec into high survivability you won't survive in end-game, end of story.

The loot was incredibly lack-lustre. Economy completely screwed and only any use to the grindiest of grinders. Seeing the public groups noticeboard composed *entirely* of trading groups points out the value of the AH in D3, although I don't think D3 got that right either, but that was more to do with poor itemisation and stats.

PoE strikes me as the game you get if you listen to those who complained the most loudly about D3. Neither is a good game but they're at opposite ends of the shit spectrum. Different shades of brown if you will. Somewhere inbetween the two is a great game, but what we've got instead is two mediocre games.

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Reply #407 on: April 24, 2013, 06:00:30 AM

I dunno, at least on normal difficulty my lightning arrow ranger (one of the cookie-cutter builds) feels pretty stompy. I throw fire traps, fire a couple of poison arrows, then fire Lesser Multiple Projectile'd lightning arrows into hordes of mobs and they explode in showers of particle effects and gore. Feels good man.

...then I fight a boss and since my build is tanky, I just kinda sit there spamming frenzy into it while face tanking 90% of the attacks, carefully hitting potions until it dies or summons more mobs for me to get my flask charges back.

...and it took like 20-25ish levels before I could really wreck shit.

Still more engaging than D3. At this point I'm not sure I'll even buy the expansion unless it promises an overhaul to the point it's almost a new game.

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Reply #408 on: April 24, 2013, 07:05:33 AM

Its very fun played with friends.

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Reply #409 on: April 24, 2013, 09:16:34 AM

There were definitely both good and bad things about PoE.

The skill tree has been discussed a lot already here, but I'm firmly in the "it's shite" camp. It could *easily* have been trimmed to 10% of its size and made the options much clearer in the process. The vast majority of people seem to follow cookie-cutter builds with minor variations anyway, which makes the huge diversity possible a total illusion. If you don't spec into high survivability you won't survive in end-game, end of story.

The loot was incredibly lack-lustre. Economy completely screwed and only any use to the grindiest of grinders. Seeing the public groups noticeboard composed *entirely* of trading groups points out the value of the AH in D3, although I don't think D3 got that right either, but that was more to do with poor itemisation and stats.

PoE strikes me as the game you get if you listen to those who complained the most loudly about D3. Neither is a good game but they're at opposite ends of the shit spectrum. Different shades of brown if you will. Somewhere inbetween the two is a great game, but what we've got instead is two mediocre games.

For anyone who hasn't played the game, this post is almost entirely wrong.

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Dark_MadMax
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Reply #410 on: April 24, 2013, 12:01:29 PM

Quote
The skill tree has been discussed a lot already here, but I'm firmly in the "it's shite" camp. It could *easily* have been trimmed to 10% of its size and made the options much clearer in the process. The vast majority of people seem to follow cookie-cutter builds with minor variations anyway, which makes the huge diversity possible a total illusion. If you don't spec into high survivability you won't survive in end-game, end of story.

All I can say is that if you are not impressed by their skill tree -stay away from  this game because its really  the only jewel in it. It has pretty decent art/audio (I personally like it  a lot) but not something extraordinary . Everything else about the game is sh1t - netcode (desyncs), skills , grouping , looting  and loot, trading, economy, combat ,etc. 

I dunno, at least on normal difficulty my lightning arrow ranger (one of the cookie-cutter builds) feels pretty stompy. I throw fire traps, fire a couple of poison arrows, then fire Lesser Multiple Projectile'd lightning arrows into hordes of mobs and they explode in showers of particle effects and gore. Feels good man.

 I dont want to be a dick or anything but normal diff means jack shit.  A blind retarded monkey with starting wand can finish normal diff without breaking sweat Even merci diff is not that hard.  Build check happens once you hit lvl70+ maps with some nasty modifiers.  And even there its purely  a build/gear check, all mechanics of the gameplay is spam a single AOE skill
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Reply #411 on: April 24, 2013, 12:08:29 PM

I dont want to be a dick or anything but normal diff means jack shit.  A blind retarded monkey with starting wand can finish normal diff without breaking sweat Even merci diff is not that hard.  Build check happens once you hit lvl70+ maps with some nasty modifiers.  And even there its purely  a build/gear check, all mechanics of the gameplay is spam a single AOE skill
Personally I'd say merci act 3 is where I start to hate the game. I feel like it starts being less fun around cruel act 3 though. Gotten 3 characters to that point only to abandon them.
Guess if I try again I'll try someone elses cookie cutter build.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 10:00:59 PM by Phred »
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Reply #412 on: April 24, 2013, 04:59:38 PM

if you are not impressed by their skill tree -stay away from  this game because its really  the only jewel in it.

But I really don't get this. It's not like anyone thought it was a 'jewel' ten years ago when they used it for Final Fantasy X. Actually it annoyed more than one person. What makes it so cool now? I don't understand.

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Reply #413 on: April 24, 2013, 05:14:54 PM


But I really don't get this. It's not like anyone thought it was a 'jewel' ten years ago when they used it for Final Fantasy X. Actually it annoyed more than one person. What makes it so cool now? I don't understand.

Wow and I thought POE devs were original. Never knew FFX  had basically  same tree lol. All in all I personally like this  approach a lot  as it allows for great build diversity (even though in case of POE poor overall balancing really limits the viable build pool). I just love making builds and theorycrafting them
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Reply #414 on: April 24, 2013, 05:26:40 PM

if you are not impressed by their skill tree -stay away from  this game because its really  the only jewel in it.

But I really don't get this. It's not like anyone thought it was a 'jewel' ten years ago when they used it for Final Fantasy X. Actually it annoyed more than one person. What makes it so cool now? I don't understand.

Because 3 skill trees for every class got old a long time ago? Its actually more a combination of the gem system and the skill tree that really matters, skill and support gems being much more important than only the core choices you make on the tree/web. Making it all about the skill web tree thing is a mistake its much more about how active skills come from gems and the tree allows any class to set themselves up to use any skill which means builds are more free form by a wide margin than they have ever been in other ARPG games. Sadly the fact that melee is terrible and you need 200%+ hp or something like that once your getting up to maps means that a lot of things you could do won't work but that's the way it is in every game.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Phred
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Reply #415 on: April 24, 2013, 10:02:56 PM

Wow and I thought POE devs were original. Never knew FFX  had basically  same tree lol. All in all I personally like this  approach a lot  as it allows for great build diversity (even though in case of POE poor overall balancing really limits the viable build pool). I just love making builds and theorycrafting them

I never played FFX but from what I've read the trees are only similar on a superficial level because FFX's tree was more like an on rails paved highway whereas PoE's really branches all over.

Ya I just googled the FFX skill "tree" and it's pretty obvious how superficial the resemblance is when you try to trace a path anywhere. There is only one path. lol real similar there guys, good catch.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100227155641/finalfantasy/images/9/94/Final_Fantasy_10_Sphere_Grid.svg
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 10:12:25 PM by Phred »
Hayduke
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Reply #416 on: April 24, 2013, 10:53:33 PM

The skill gem system is definitely the most interesting feature of the game.  Too bad it's locked behind fuck-all random grinding gear games.
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Reply #417 on: April 25, 2013, 03:34:07 AM

I still play this occasionally and I like to dream that it is a proof of concept for a well-funded PoE 2
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Reply #418 on: April 25, 2013, 10:23:18 AM

I still play this occasionally and I like to dream that it is a proof of concept for a well-funded PoE 2

So you like an appearantly branching skill tree that only has one route through it?
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Reply #419 on: April 25, 2013, 10:43:46 AM

One route? I wish my skill tree options were that unambiguous.
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