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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Star Wars: The Old Republic  |  Topic: Computer specs 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Computer specs  (Read 19669 times)
calapine
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Reply #35 on: December 12, 2011, 04:24:58 PM

Usually the best way to do that sort of thing is to make a copy or rename the original folder, uninstall, do a fresh install, bail out after it starts downloading, move the files into the new folder on the new drive, then finish the install and it won't download files that are already there.

There is a better way...use directory junctions.

1) Simply move the entire game directory to a new location.

Example: From C:\SWTOR to D:\SWTOR


2) Open a Command Prompt in Windows

How To: Open Windows Startmenu, type 'CMD' into the search box.


3) Create a directory junction pointing to the old location using MKLINK

Syntax: "MKLINK /J "<new location> <old location>"
Example: 'MKLINK /J "D:\SWTOR" "C:\SWTOR"'

More verbose explantion here.

Especially usefull for Steam, in case you want to have some games on the fast SSD which often isn't large enough to hold the entire Steam folder.

Cala
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 04:29:26 PM by calapine »

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Numtini
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Reply #36 on: December 12, 2011, 05:00:04 PM

Net admin for 11 years and didn't know the command. I really really have to get out of the public sector before I forget how to turn on the computer.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Lantyssa
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Reply #37 on: December 12, 2011, 06:05:11 PM

Wait.  Windows has symbolic links!?!  I never knew it moved beyond assign.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Ghambit
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Reply #38 on: December 12, 2011, 06:37:14 PM

Usually the best way to do that sort of thing is to make a copy or rename the original folder, uninstall, do a fresh install, bail out after it starts downloading, move the files into the new folder on the new drive, then finish the install and it won't download files that are already there.

There is a better way...use directory junctions.

1) Simply move the entire game directory to a new location.

Example: From C:\SWTOR to D:\SWTOR


2) Open a Command Prompt in Windows

How To: Open Windows Startmenu, type 'CMD' into the search box.


3) Create a directory junction pointing to the old location using MKLINK

Syntax: "MKLINK /J "<new location> <old location>"
Example: 'MKLINK /J "D:\SWTOR" "C:\SWTOR"'

More verbose explantion here.

Especially usefull for Steam, in case you want to have some games on the fast SSD which often isn't large enough to hold the entire Steam folder.

Cala

So, I buy my fancy SSD and asign it to drive G:.
I then copy my D:\Games\Star Wars-The Old Republic folder and create/paste to say G:\Games\Star Wars-The Old Republic.
I leave the system files alone (the appdata caches about 1GB on the C: drive).  And windows will THINK swtor is still on D: but passthru to G:?  Thereby maintaining the read/write from the sys files to the G drive?
All this using the /J command instead of /H yes?

Also, if I partition a 2GB pagefile onto my SSD, will that significantly reduce the lifespan of the drive?

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
kildorn
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Reply #39 on: December 12, 2011, 06:47:21 PM

I don't know that I'd recommend pagefiles on your SSD, but I haven't looked recently. You can just play with powerboost if you really care about swap speed (basically, convert a $10 4G USB into a 4G high speed page file)

As for links: yes, you want to avoid /H except in very special circumstances.

/J creates wonky processing behavior I'm not sure I entirely get (it's apparently processing it on the server side, and doesn't support remote filesystem links? But I can't find any advantage over just using MKLINK or MKLINK /D and creating symlinks instead of Directory Junctions.)

/H is used when you want to essentially have different files in places, where some files will be the same. For example if I have 3 variants of a patch repository where I can expect 90% of the files to be the same, Hardlinks allow me to save a shitload of space. The primary difference is that if I have FileA hardlinked in DirectoryA and DirectoryB, I can delete it from DirectoryA or B, and it will continue to exist in the other location. It's like a symlink, except neither end is the "real" file. It's simply a file with multiple pointers.

I don't know why I'm getting all "how windows tries to play nice with links" here. I think I was mostly curious since the last time I used NTFS linking it was barely documented or supported yet. Long story short: /J should do the trick per instructions. Not sure why it's not just using /D which seems to be a better /J, but you will not experience any performance difference between the two. Don't use /H, it doesn't do what you think it does. And I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work across volumes.
Ingmar
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Reply #40 on: December 12, 2011, 08:24:13 PM

I would guess that yes, putting a pagefile on your SSD would have a noticeable impact on lifespan.

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calapine
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Reply #41 on: December 13, 2011, 01:10:00 AM

So, I buy my fancy SSD and asign it to drive G:.
I then copy my D:\Games\Star Wars-The Old Republic folder and create/paste to say G:\Games\Star Wars-The Old Republic.
I leave the system files alone (the appdata caches about 1GB on the C: drive).  And windows will THINK swtor is still on D: but passthru to G:?  Thereby maintaining the read/write from the sys files to the G drive?
All this using the /J command instead of /H yes?

Also, if I partition a 2GB pagefile onto my SSD, will that significantly reduce the lifespan of the drive?
Yes, you move the entire directory to the new location, but copy works too as the data will simply be deleted once you create the junction/link.

Yes, the link is invisible for application, so no re-installing or changes to registry are needed. Stuff in appdata or savefiles in users/documents stay where they are, although you could move them as well with the same trick, should you wish so.

Yes, do not use /H. I have been using /J (junctions) for ages, but kildorn is right that /D (symbolic link) works too. It's actually the more 'modern' method. Junctions exist since Win 2000, symbolic links since Vista.

Yes, putting the swapfile on the MLC SSD will reduce it's lifespan. It's very hard to find actual numbers on how long these drives really hold, but my personal take on it is that unless you keep your machine for +5 years it will be outdated and replaced long before he SSD starts to fail. Here is an Anandtech article about the subject:


Quote
Over this period of time I used only 10 cycles of flash (it was a 120GB drive) out of a minimum of 3000 available p/e cycles. In eight months I only used 1/300th of the lifespan of the drive.

 The other drives we had deployed internally are even healthier. It turns out I'm a bit of a write hog.

 Paired with a decent SSD controller, write lifespan is a non-issue. Note that I only fold Intel, Crucial/Micron/Marvell and SandForce into this category
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 01:16:49 AM by calapine »

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luckton
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Reply #42 on: December 13, 2011, 01:30:38 AM

I would guess that yes, putting a pagefile on your SSD would have a noticeable impact on lifespan.

Calapine is correct.  Besides, WTF are you doing putting in a SSD before upgrading your memory to something decent?  Get enough memory, and you don't 'need' a pagefile.

Edit: Also, symbolic links have been in since Vista.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

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Lantyssa
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Reply #43 on: December 13, 2011, 04:15:08 AM

Edit: Also, symbolic links have been in since Vista.
I avoided Vista like the plague, and am fairly new to Win7.  The machines at work have always been XP or earlier for a variety of reasons.

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Ghambit
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Reply #44 on: December 13, 2011, 08:39:06 AM

I would guess that yes, putting a pagefile on your SSD would have a noticeable impact on lifespan.

Calapine is correct.  Besides, WTF are you doing putting in a SSD before upgrading your memory to something decent?  Get enough memory, and you don't 'need' a pagefile.

Edit: Also, symbolic links have been in since Vista.

I've got the max ram Vista will resource (im waiting for Win7 for xmas and gave my win7 rig to my brother) and pagefile is a nice trick when you've got multiple physical drives since the mem-managers on vista will use the virt ram on another disk besides the one you're using.  Hence the reason I've got my OS and pagefile on a separate platter from my games.

Also, the SSD addresses an entirely different need with a game like SWTOR; which is why in the forums you're seeing people running out to buy them right now.  With all the cutscenes and dialog, it really helps.  You wont have loadtimes after going into a cutscene, messing up the flow.  You also wont see high-res textures loading, which will happen regardless of how much RAM you have.  Lastly, the game is largely seamless ala WoW and most 4gb systems wont quite have enough to combat stutter during highspeed travel...  SSD helps this again since the pre-cache is more quickly accessed.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Sky
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Reply #45 on: December 13, 2011, 10:06:22 AM

Found a nasty crash bug that's locking up my system after a couple hours, setting off the sound card. First time was a white noise at full volume, second was a high pitched beep. My cat's heart won't take many more of those!
Ingmar
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Reply #46 on: December 13, 2011, 10:58:26 AM

5+ years is really optimistic. We're seeing them fail in laptops in under 2 years pretty frequently.

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Ghambit
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Reply #47 on: December 14, 2011, 09:36:58 AM

How important is that appdata swapfile on the sys drive anyways?  Should I move that to the ssd and MKLINK also?  Remember, my OS isnt going on my SSD.
Also, it's telling me "cannot create because file already exists."
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 09:54:54 AM by Ghambit »

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Furiously
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Reply #48 on: December 14, 2011, 09:49:11 AM

You can just change the swapfile location.  Go into my control panel, system, then click on the advanced tab, hit the performance tab, the advanced tab, then change the virtual memory settings, you can set where the swapfile is then.

Ghambit
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Reply #49 on: December 14, 2011, 09:56:12 AM

You can just change the swapfile location.  Go into my control panel, system, then click on the advanced tab, hit the performance tab, the advanced tab, then change the virtual memory settings, you can set where the swapfile is then.

I was talking about the swapfile that Swtor creates in the appdata folder.  Its like 1GB.  I assume it's important.

edit:  swtor seems to use "smart" directories so going through the symbolic link process isnt even necessary.  Just cut-paste.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 10:01:35 AM by Ghambit »

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Lucas
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Reply #50 on: December 15, 2011, 01:58:49 PM

Hmm, I tried the .ini tweak to enable antialias (at 4): FPS plummeted from 70 to 20-22 in the open "Gnarls" area on Tython. Yeah, still some optimization to add :P. My other settings are all set to max.

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Sand
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Reply #51 on: December 15, 2011, 02:33:34 PM

Yeah I dont want this on my C: either. I want it on a removable D: drive.
So when I get home and download it tonight I just cut/copy and paste it to the D: drive with no problems?

edit:  swtor seems to use "smart" directories so going through the symbolic link process isnt even necessary.  Just cut-paste.
Lucas
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Reply #52 on: December 15, 2011, 03:11:18 PM

Hmm, I tried the .ini tweak to enable antialias (at 4): FPS plummeted from 70 to 20-22 in the open "Gnarls" area on Tython. Yeah, still some optimization to add :P. My other settings are all set to max.

Changed the valor to "2" and FPS stabilize themselves around 42-48...A more than acceptable tradeoff, visuals are decent enough.

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Der Helm
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Reply #53 on: December 16, 2011, 04:31:57 AM


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Merusk
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Reply #54 on: December 16, 2011, 05:18:12 AM

I'm going to be interested to see what kind of FPS I get if my new rig ever gets here.  /tapfoot.

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luckton
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Reply #55 on: December 16, 2011, 05:26:57 AM

Fullscreen Exclusive mode can bring some frame rate stability, at it allows your rig to fully focus on the game.  You just can't alt-tab back and forth very quickly.  Even on my rig (Core i5, 16GB RAM, 60GB SSD and a 6850 ATI RadeonHD), the game takes approx. 5-10 seconds when I alt-tab back in for the client to redraw/re-render the environment and actually give me control of my character.  

If you go Windowed or Fullscreen(Windowed) mode, expect some drops.  Right now, if I'm bumming around solo, I run Windowed at a lower resolution (1600x960) so I can still surf the net/get a Blood Bowl game in.  When I do group stuff, I switch it back to Fullscreen Exclusive for the  DRILLING AND MANLINESS and  awesome, for real

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"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Lantyssa
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Reply #56 on: December 16, 2011, 06:37:33 AM


Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
MisterNoisy
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Reply #57 on: December 16, 2011, 06:38:25 AM

I'm going to be interested to see what kind of FPS I get if my new rig ever gets here.  /tapfoot.

What did you end up ordering?

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Der Helm
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Reply #58 on: December 16, 2011, 06:53:26 AM

I think he meant value.
Duh.... of course...

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Lucas
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Reply #59 on: December 16, 2011, 07:10:41 AM

Whoops, I was obviously in need of moar coffee when I wrote that  ACK!

/lesson mode -on

In italian, we use the same word to express both "value" and "valor" (or valour) as courage, with the word "valore", so dunno why but I went ahead with that  Ohhhhh, I see.

/lesson mode -off

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murdoc
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Reply #60 on: December 16, 2011, 07:18:27 AM

For those of you with dual ATI cards, are you running with Crossfire on or off? I got a new beast and I'm certainly not getting the performance I expected out of it.

Have you tried the internet? It's made out of millions of people missing the point of everything and then getting angry about it
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Reply #61 on: December 16, 2011, 07:19:01 AM

I'm going to be interested to see what kind of FPS I get if my new rig ever gets here.  /tapfoot.

What did you end up ordering?

2600k i7 w/ a 570 GTX and 16gb ram (it was on sale)

They were selling a 24" asus for 167 as well, so I got a BIG monitor and will finally have 2 at home.
Full spec
Of course now that it's bought and in QC so I can't cancel the order, my wife loses her job.  Can't win.  awesome, for real

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Pezzle
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Reply #62 on: December 16, 2011, 07:59:03 AM

That sounds similar to my setup. 

Asus P8Z68-V Pro
16 GB DDR3 RAM
I-7 2600K
Geforce GTX 570Ti
Corsair HX650w Power supply (7 year warranty!)
WD Black 750GB HD
Crucial 64GB SSD


Put it all in an Antec 900.  I do not care for lights on the case but it was free and it is pretty quiet.  I have Smart Response Technology running for my SSD.  Machine is fast and I am happy.
calapine
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Reply #63 on: December 16, 2011, 09:08:10 AM

I have an ATI card and had severe FPS issues with shadows. On highest settings: 30-40 FPS outside, ~ 15 FPS inside buildings. A lot of stuttering.
After turning shadows off, with everything else on the highest: 60-80 FPS inside.

System: Intel Core I7 920, ATI 4870, 6GB RAM
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 09:12:59 AM by calapine »

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Sobelius
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Reply #64 on: December 16, 2011, 12:50:02 PM

I have an ATI card and had severe FPS issues with shadows. On highest settings: 30-40 FPS outside, ~ 15 FPS inside buildings. A lot of stuttering.
After turning shadows off, with everything else on the highest: 60-80 FPS inside.

System: Intel Core I7 920, ATI 4870, 6GB RAM

I have an almost identical system setup but have a 2GB ATI 6870. Running with everything maxed in 1900x1200 full screen window with 60Hz vertical sync. Frame rates are usually in the 60-80s outside and over 100 inside -- not that that makes a hell of a lot of difference, really.

Whatever they tweaked in the launch client has made the game look better, but its textures are still pixel-riffic close up. I'm truly spoiled by LOTRO's high-rez textures.

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MisterNoisy
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Reply #65 on: December 16, 2011, 05:25:33 PM

2600k i7 w/ a 570 GTX and 16gb ram (it was on sale)

They were selling a 24" asus for 167 as well, so I got a BIG monitor and will finally have 2 at home.
Full spec
Of course now that it's bought and in QC so I can't cancel the order, my wife loses her job.  Can't win.  awesome, for real

Ack!   ACK!

Sorry to hear it - hopefully it sorts itself out sooner rather than later.

Nice machine, though - I'm shocked at how decent that Apevia case is.

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