She's Crafty!

[Ingmar]

OK, sure, but then you're only getting the particular stat combos that are in said PVP gear, and also the grind for that is more significant than the grind for daily commendations.

You still can't pull color crystals out of that stuff, too.

[01101010]

OK, sure, but then you're only getting the particular stat combos that are in said PVP gear, and also the grind for that is more significant than the grind for daily commendations.

You still can't pull color crystals out of that stuff, too.

So as a craft, which ones actually have anything better than the level cap comm vendors? Bio? Artifice (for crystals?)?

[Mrbloodworth]

A level 20 crafted item is not as a good as a level 50 drop item in a level based game: News at 11.

 Everyone sets sights on the end level and nothing else matters. You know, all this "Well at 50.." or "Nothing maters till end level..." or "Race through to level 50..." Stuff makes me realize one thing.


Levels are dumb.

[01101010]

A level 20 crafted item is not as a good as a level 50 drop item in a level based game: News at 11.

Not really where I was going... try level 50 / level 50. If I can take a few hours or a day or two of grabbing comms to get the best purple mod you can get or spend credits on the AH or grind the shit out of crew skills to get a few purple mats AFTER I have already spent a few days REing blues to get a rare purple scheme to proc AFTER I spent a few hours doing crew skills to get the blues... well yeah. MMO and path of least resistance comes to mind here.

[Ingmar]

OK, sure, but then you're only getting the particular stat combos that are in said PVP gear, and also the grind for that is more significant than the grind for daily commendations.

You still can't pull color crystals out of that stuff, too.

So as a craft, which ones actually have anything better than the level cap comm vendors? Bio? Artifice (for crystals?)?

Cybertech for grenades, ship parts and droid parts, Bio for med packs, Artifice for crystals, the others are basically for oranges.

Now, this is not taking into account the recipes that I hear drop in raids.

Bloodworth, nobody is talking about comparing level 20 items to level 50. We're comparing max crafted items with what is available through daily commendations. It is solo content of the same level, it is an apples to apples comparison.

[Khaldun]

Right. At any given level, what a crafter can make is generally no better and frequently worse than what can be earned through commendation badges, which are earned in the normal course of levelling. In substantial measure, this is because the level limits on crafted items generally make them available at the precise point at which the player is also turning in the commendation badges.

If, on the other hand, the crafted items essentially became on average available at the *start* of a player's engagement with a particular planetary set of missions, basically about 1.10 levels earlier than the commendation badges will make items available, the crafter would gain a slight edge that might make the crafting worth doing--and might create a reasonable auction market for the crafted items. Instead, crafters can devote considerable effort to becoming able to make items that are totally irrelevant to the players who might buy them and use them at the point at which they could use them. Crafters don't even get the nice little bonuses that are common in many other crafting systems (e.g., a weapon, armor or other item modifier derived from their crafting).

Right now as far as durable crafted items go, I think only Cybertech gets something that you can't get any other way.

[Ingmar]

Right. At any given level, what a crafter can make is generally no better and frequently worse than what can be earned through commendation badges, which are earned in the normal course of levelling. In substantial measure, this is because the level limits on crafted items generally make them available at the precise point at which the player is also turning in the commendation badges.

Actually I really only find this to be true at cap. I was able to make purple mods that were better than what I could get as a quest or commendation reward while leveling; I just very often chose not to because it was kind of a pain.

It is only at level 50 that the commendation stuff is just outright better, and, importantly, it is only at level 50 that the supply of commendations becomes effectively infinite. Before that you can only get so many commendations per planet reasonably, which is not enough to kit out a full set of oranges in mods.

[Khaldun]

See, with Armstech, I found again and again that the item that I:

had the materials for
had the ingredients for
was not WTF-pwn better than what I was using right that minute, just slightly so

was almost invariably level-locked to me at that point.

When I could use it, I could get an orange or blue replacement that was better. There's a purple schematic at some levels that's better still (though non-moddable) but getting that is a matter of major grinding of RE or something else I haven't done. Only two Armstechs on the server appear to have the purple schematics for some weapons.

So Armstech is mostly just useful for making companion weapons on a regular basis, from what I can see.

[Sjofn]

My armstech is the queen of barrels and techblades. Being able to make blue barrels for myself is really quite nice, as it means I can spend my commendations on other shit (like a hilt for Bowdaar, or whatever), and those sell perfectly well on the accursed GTN. And techblades are money. Totally money. <3 At cap, however, the barrel thing goes away, and I imagine the techblade thing does too.

[Ingmar]

Once you've gotten past the 'I have to afford my speeder' hump at 25, you should be able to raise your mission skill enough to be able to be making yourself blue barrels as you go which in turn should be pretty competitive with what you can get with commendations, which would then allow you to spend your commendations on something else, like armor mods or orange pants or whatever happens to be available on the given planet. You can't only look at 'well, I can make this gun that is identical to this commendation gun, thus crafting is worthless' because you're ignoring that there's a cost to that commendation gun - it means you can't buy the OTHER things you might want. If you're crafting as you go, you can often get everything off the vendors you might want instead of just some of the things, at least in my experience.

[01101010]

Right. At any given level, what a crafter can make is generally no better and frequently worse than what can be earned through commendation badges, which are earned in the normal course of levelling. In substantial measure, this is because the level limits on crafted items generally make them available at the precise point at which the player is also turning in the commendation badges.

Actually I really only find this to be true at cap. I was able to make purple mods that were better than what I could get as a quest or commendation reward while leveling; I just very often chose not to because it was kind of a pain.

It is only at level 50 that the commendation stuff is just outright better, and, importantly, it is only at level 50 that the supply of commendations becomes effectively infinite. Before that you can only get so many commendations per planet reasonably, which is not enough to kit out a full set of oranges in mods.

Sadly, I outleveled my shit faster than I could feasibly craft it. Sure, I could fuck around REing greens to blues, then pray I have enough blue mats to make enough to RE into a purple which would be way better than the comm vendor blue (~level). But by then, I was already on the next planet's comm vendor and still waiting on my crew to bring me back some purple mats. GTN is a carnival of despair, so fuck those inflated prices.

[Ingmar]

GTN is a carnival of despair, so fuck those inflated prices.

Or you know, sell your stuff for those inflated prices!

[Lantyssa]

Actually I really only find this to be true at cap. I was able to make purple mods that were better than what I could get as a quest or commendation reward while leveling; I just very often chose not to because it was kind of a pain.

The time it takes to make better gear I could spend leveling, where I would have already found equivalents and be needing the next tier of stuff.

The system is okay for filling some gaps, and great for twinking alts, but most people simply aren't going to be able to keep their crafting level equal to their adventuring level.  I go out of my way to craft and I'm frequently finding I can make things just about the time I no longer need them.  I feel sorry for anyone with interest but without my dedication.

Once guild banks are in, guilded alts will be the ones to really benefit from the system.

[Ingmar]

The time it takes to craft you could also spend not even logged in; I don't find that particular part of the system to be much of an issue. The random factor on REs (and on missions to get the purple mats you need for purple gear) is really the main thing that kept me from spending time on items above blue quality while leveling.

[Sjofn]

Actually I really only find this to be true at cap. I was able to make purple mods that were better than what I could get as a quest or commendation reward while leveling; I just very often chose not to because it was kind of a pain.

The time it takes to make better gear I could spend leveling, where I would have already found equivalents and be needing the next tier of stuff.

The system is okay for filling some gaps, and great for twinking alts, but most people simply aren't going to be able to keep their crafting level equal to their adventuring level.  I go out of my way to craft and I'm frequently finding I can make things just about the time I no longer need them.  I feel sorry for anyone with interest but without my dedication.

I find this surprising, because without really even trying, my characters are all ahead of what level they are craft-wise. Jassan even dropped armormech and took up cybertech, and now he is at 390-ish cybertech (at level 41). And he's had metal to spare. Siala could make mods far above her level without even trying. And I'm seriously not very dedicated to crafting at all. I just pick stuff when I see it and craft crap while I level.

[Nebu]

Crafting (outside of Biochem) seems to have one purpose: Twinking alts.  It's not a bad purpose.  It just seems like wasted resources in its current iteration, particularly when we were told in early beta that the best items in game would be crafted. 

[Threash]

Whether you can craft level appropriate things or not depends mostly on what non standard leveling methods you use.  I got a lot of exp from space missions and pvp leaving me slightly over leveled for the actual content and for the crafting mats i collected.

[Ingmar]

Crafting (outside of Biochem) seems to have one purpose: Twinking alts.  It's not a bad purpose.  It just seems like wasted resources in its current iteration, particularly when we were told in early beta that the best items in game would be crafted.  

It may very well be true, I haven't yet seen any information on what the raid-dropped recipes can do.

EDIT: I guess from a certain POV orange items "can" be the best items in game (once they make the armoring mods removable from epic drops as they plan to), and can be crafted.

[Nebu]

Ok, "Best in the game" and "Tied for the best in the game" can technically be the same thing, but come on.  I very seriously doubt that any o fthe raid recipes will produce anything better than Tier 3 gear.  Equal to, maybe... definitely not better or the masses would cry foul.

[01101010]

Actually I really only find this to be true at cap. I was able to make purple mods that were better than what I could get as a quest or commendation reward while leveling; I just very often chose not to because it was kind of a pain.

The time it takes to make better gear I could spend leveling, where I would have already found equivalents and be needing the next tier of stuff.

The system is okay for filling some gaps, and great for twinking alts, but most people simply aren't going to be able to keep their crafting level equal to their adventuring level.  I go out of my way to craft and I'm frequently finding I can make things just about the time I no longer need them.  I feel sorry for anyone with interest but without my dedication.

Problem I was having was getting the mats. I was finding grade 4-5 stuff and needing grade 6 stuff. Only way to get those was to send my crew out rather than gathering the shit off the 8million droid corpses I was creating.
I find this surprising, because without really even trying, my characters are all ahead of what level they are craft-wise. Jassan even dropped armormech and took up cybertech, and now he is at 390-ish cybertech (at level 41). And he's had metal to spare. Siala could make mods far above her level without even trying. And I'm seriously not very dedicated to crafting at all. I just pick stuff when I see it and craft crap while I level.

[Sjofn]

You can cap your crafting easily with the T5 materials, which I did. I started getting the T6 materials ... right about when I started hitting the levels I would use them (they show up on Corellia).

[Ingmar]

I'm guessing the difference is people who hit planets way ahead of schedule due to PVP/space missions, as Threash says.

[01101010]

I'm guessing the difference is people who hit planets way ahead of schedule due to PVP/space missions, as Threash says.

Makes sense since I hit Corellia @ 49.4

[tmp]

My armstech is the queen of barrels and techblades. Being able to make blue barrels for myself is really quite nice

Especially when no one sells them on GTN

[Rendakor]

People actually gather materials by hand? I get 90% of mine through sending the minions out gathering.

[tmp]

It's quite faster to farm a few nodes each giving you anywhere between 2-5 materials and each respawning every few mins, than sending companion on 30-60 min long mission that nets you the same amount.

[Sjofn]

My armstech is the queen of barrels and techblades. Being able to make blue barrels for myself is really quite nice

Especially when no one sells them on GTN

I do! And it makes me cash money! I tend to make aim ones because there always seems to be plenty of +cunning ones up for sale, but I know the troopers need a LOT of +aim barrels if they're keeping their companions up to date too. And techblades, of course, there's a captive market there.

[tmp]

I tend to make aim ones because there always seems to be plenty of +cunning ones up for sale, but I know the troopers need a LOT of +aim barrels if they're keeping their companions up to date too.

That's just blatant Fordel catering, ain't it

I was probably just unlucky or there's plenty barrel-hungry smugglers maybe, since each time i check for the +cunning barrels the highest on sale are like l.37, which doesn't work too well for my companions at 45 or so.

[Fordel]

The only Barrels I've actually bought were the top end purple ones for Dorne and Myself.

Which I promptly replaced with the Daily Comm vendor ones, because I "NEEDED" that extra 2 aim 



All of my other companions are basically dressed for looks and little more.

[Sjofn]

I tend to make aim ones because there always seems to be plenty of +cunning ones up for sale, but I know the troopers need a LOT of +aim barrels if they're keeping their companions up to date too.

That's just blatant Fordel catering, ain't it

I was probably just unlucky or there's plenty barrel-hungry smugglers maybe, since each time i check for the +cunning barrels the highest on sale are like l.37, which doesn't work too well for my companions at 45 or so.

Ha, not quite, I've been leveling a trooper myself and I noticed every time I looked, there were a bunch of +cunning but no +aim and dammit M1-4X needs the BEST BARREL to shoot the BEST HOLES through ALL THE IMPS. The highest I can make easily top out at 39 though, so even still I am not much help to you!

[Fordel]

One thing that is kinda interesting, is seeing which classes end up taking which crafts and how that reflects item choice on the GTN.

[PalmTrees]

One thing that is kinda interesting, is seeing which classes end up taking which crafts and how that reflects item choice on the GTN.

My sorcerer went cybertech, and since no one on the squad uses aim (except the ship droid), I've never bothered buying any of those recipes.

Just doing regular questing often puts me ahead of the materials available. More than once I've had to skip ahead a planet to find the types of nodes I needed. I just find a nice gathering loop, often with an easy to get security chest, and spend a play session gathering, crafting, re'ing.

[Fabricated]

*hits 400 Armormech*

Cost for all standard 400 Armormech plans: 120,000 credits. Ow.

[Nebu]

*hits 400 Armormech*

Cost for all standard 400 Armormech plans: 120,000 credits. Ow.

That's just crazy... everyone has orange or purple gear by 50.  Essentially you're crafting stuff for companions that will get orange/purple eventually too.

[Fabricated]

Trip report on Armormech so far:

1-49:
+Keeps you in armor that is consistently better than quest rewards.
+Lets you spend commendations on other stuff like weapons/weapon mods, or in my case artifact boxes.*
+Unless you're running a lot of FPs and getting armor drops, you'll actually not look like a clownsuited retard. (unless you're a smuggler because some of the mid-late level smugger stuff is pretty herfderf)
+If you're a class that has a lot of companions rocking Cunning/Aim based armor, you'll be able to keep them all completely kitted out and useful with minimum effort. (see: The trooper. All heavy-armor companions -droids)
+If you're lucky and reverse engineer the results of your odd crafting spam you can get better plans.

-That last one rarely ever happens.
-If you're overleveled for your current story content (which you will be if you're hitting the odd FP and doing bonus series on every planet) you'll need to rely heavily on the ridiculously money-inefficient scavenging quests to get you metal. Also later metal grades include two types of metal/compounds and scavenging seems to be designed to give you more of whatever you don't need.

50:
+???
-You'll look at people who took biochem and now have unlimited use superstims and supermedpacs, and be like, "Why didn't I take biochem?"

*This I was ridiculously lucky with. I kept getting useful epic shields, implants, and earpieces, so between those and my usually superior to quest-reward Armormech armor I was pretty ridiculously overpowered in FPs/Heroics.