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Author Topic: Patch 130: Volibear (jungle remake!)  (Read 13997 times)
statisticalfool
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on: November 25, 2011, 12:46:38 PM

Abilities: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/volibear-thunder%E2%80%99s-roar-revealed

Not actually that interesting. Melee with a speed boost with cc/steroid/AOE, you don't say?

Patch notes: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/volibear-patch-notes

Sivir remake, GP new model/animations, Minions do less damage, HP potions do less, jungle gets totally changed

* all camps easier
* all camps provide a buff
* all camps provide less XP early, though this scales a bit.
* respawn timers knocked down
* red buff nerfed for melee

Interesting: two small Karthus nerfs: wall of pain down to 5 seconds, and more importantly, baron/dragon immune to armor/mr shred, which means his control of that goes way down.

Champ spotlight: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/champion-spotlight-volibear-thunders-roar
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 07:44:32 AM by tastyhat »
K9
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Reply #1 on: November 25, 2011, 01:08:53 PM

Another tanky/initiator/fighter type by the looks of things.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Samprimary
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Reply #2 on: November 25, 2011, 03:51:15 PM




Welcome to the League of Legends champion spotlight for Volibear: Another Tanky DPS. What we were trying to go for with this hero is that we're crunched for time, so we're throwing in another melee brute with a boring kit, so we can severely cut down on test time due to that hero category posing far less risk of creating really problematic lane combinations. As a result, the entire hero can be summarized as "He is good at walking up to people and auto-attacking them." He will also disappear from the game entirely after freeweek, like Shyvana the Half-Useful, unless we forget to keep him less useful than Udyr, despite pretty much being Udyr.

Anyway. Let's look at how to play Volibear. Volibear can be played as a tanky DPS, but I like to use him as a jungle. Like every other tanky DPS in a champion spotlight. Since this is another hero which doesn't really do much besides autoattacking well, we have a Soraka running in circles away from creeps for the purposes of demonstrating our abilities. Watch as frenzy COMPLETELY CRUSHES her health.

For my masteries and runes, I select "Udyr Masteries" and "Udyr Runes" from my masteries and runes pages. For items, I like to purchase whatever I purchased for Udyr. Tune in next week for Champion Spotlight as we preview "Beefy Hurt-Man: Literally Just A Walking Autoattack" and discuss how proud we are that literally over half the champion roster is now tanky DPS benchwarmers that usually cause your teammates to queue dodge whenever you select them in a game above 1400 ELO.
Megrim
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Reply #3 on: November 25, 2011, 08:38:53 PM

I love you.

But srsly, with the Red lizard nerf, yea, they can go fuck themselves.

One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
statisticalfool
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Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 08:47:27 PM

Yeah. I am so doubtful about this jungle remake.

I'm all for crazy junglers, I'm all for removing rune dependence for jungling, but if it turns out that a viable strategy is just to have your jungler sit in their jungle  for 20 minutes, and then come out reasonably farmed up...that's just silly.
Thrawn
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Reply #5 on: November 25, 2011, 08:52:21 PM

I don't even know how much testing they've done, but if they are making that big of a jungle change...I would bet they need to do more.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
DLRiley
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Reply #6 on: November 25, 2011, 09:48:00 PM

If they want to have make a big jungle change make another map call it S.R Mode and if they get postive reviews remove the old one. Otherwise this is reason 99 why I'm never buying riot points.
jakonovski
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Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 03:59:43 AM

I'll definitely agree that releasing samey characters is hella boring, but I'm not getting this hysteria over jungle changes. As a level 23 player who plain cannot use some jungling routes/champs, I think it's far more likely the pros are going to outweigh the cons. At least I'll get to learn proper jungling for the 50 odd games until level 30.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 04:54:43 AM by jakonovski »
Mosesandstick
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Reply #8 on: November 26, 2011, 04:50:56 AM

As with most things I don't get the point of being hysterical until we actually get to properly try the changes out. I do have a lot of faith in Riot's game design though.
DLRiley
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Reply #9 on: November 26, 2011, 05:50:46 AM

The problem is that the change is potentially permanent and doesn't just effect one champ. I mean when they fucked over dominion, it was rage worthy but we still have SR. We don't have another map if they fuck up SR. Combine that with the across the board nerf bat called the mastery "rework" , no observe mode, and yet another tanky, gap closer, cc, sustain champ that will probably occupy everyone's bans for a month? Does Riot hear the sound of Valve laughing from California?
jakonovski
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Reply #10 on: November 26, 2011, 08:38:07 AM

What's wrong with Dominion? Also I find it weird that someone can be incensed that every character is somhow nerfed. It's a relative term, guys.
DLRiley
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Reply #11 on: November 26, 2011, 01:54:16 PM

Made it slower so now when jax or akali get there early game kills its not a mountain climb to get repeatedly raped by them for 20 minutes, instead of 10 minutes to get the 1 or 2 items you need to counter them if you know. Basically

Old Dominion -> All early game advantages even out in 10 minutes (assuming you know how to build your champ) so ability to actually hold and cap mattered (you know the reason why dominion was fun)
New Dominion -> Pick carry, farm noobs for 15 minutes, profit.
Ashamanchill
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Reply #12 on: November 26, 2011, 03:33:43 PM

I'd argue with Dl here, but I don't play dominion any more at all, nor do I know anyone who does. He's probably right.

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Thrawn
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Reply #13 on: November 26, 2011, 05:06:43 PM

I'd argue with Dl here, but I don't play dominion any more at all, nor do I know anyone who does. He's probably right.

Same for Twisted Treeline, was all hyped up the first few weeks and now it's rare I see anyone playing it.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Typhon
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Reply #14 on: November 26, 2011, 05:40:25 PM

I play both TT and Dominion more than SR, and never have to wait long in the queue.  If you're looking at your friends to see if they are playing either of those game, perhaps your sample is self-selecting.

Dominion is fine.  My patience for giving an hour of my life away, half of which is devoted to tedium, has ebbed.
Mosesandstick
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Reply #15 on: November 26, 2011, 05:44:20 PM

I enjoy dominion, and if I could play 5s, I'd rather do it on Dominion than SR.
Rasix
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Reply #16 on: November 26, 2011, 08:20:59 PM

Since I hadn't ever played a MOBA until LoL and all I had ever read/seen about it was SR; SR is pretty much all LoL is to me.  Heh, I think the first couple weeks I played is when they introduced Dominion.  I haven't felt like playing that or Twisted Treeline. 

Jungle rework.. don't know how I think about it.  At the level I'm at, jungle clearing isn't difficult even without a decent leash, and you don't feel the need to just STAY in the jungle the entire time or fall behind.  My first few jungle attempts were pretty poor, however, and I don't have a good enough feel for ganking to be good at it.  Maybe when the changes go live, I'll just jungle on a smurf account until I perceive myself to not be terrible.  I'm still primarily just a top lane/solo mid player. 

Electo-bear seems dumb and annoying.  It's like "hey, we forgot to put good cc on dragonlady, so here's a double dose!".  Plus, he's extra-hard to kill.  Joy.

-Rasix
Malakili
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Reply #17 on: November 26, 2011, 09:52:32 PM

I play both TT and Dominion more than SR, and never have to wait long in the queue.  If you're looking at your friends to see if they are playing either of those game, perhaps your sample is self-selecting.

Dominion is fine.  My patience for giving an hour of my life away, half of which is devoted to tedium, has ebbed.

My main problem with Dominion, the more I play, is that it just doesn't feel very interesting.  If I just want to play a death match game I'll fire up a shooter of some kind.  They just do that better for me.   I play Twisted Treeline a few times a week with a couple of friends.  Its a decent enough mode, the map could do to be about 25% bigger I think, but its fun enough.
statisticalfool
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Reply #18 on: November 29, 2011, 07:45:00 AM

So champ spotlight up...and superboring.

HaemishM
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Reply #19 on: November 29, 2011, 10:59:25 AM

Oh that FLING is going to get annoying as fuck.

Rasix
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Reply #20 on: November 29, 2011, 11:04:51 AM

Yes, I like how they show him playing with Singed in the champ spotlight.  That won't get annoying at all during free Singed week.  

edit: Watched some of him on a few streams.  Does look boring.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 11:07:11 AM by Rasix »

-Rasix
jakonovski
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Reply #21 on: November 29, 2011, 11:08:47 AM

According to the spotlight Lolibear is an excellent jungler, tank, duelist and dps.  swamp poop
pxib
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Reply #22 on: November 29, 2011, 12:01:11 PM

For a week, anyway.

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statisticalfool
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Reply #23 on: November 29, 2011, 12:27:36 PM

Watching some jungle streams:

slower to level 4 (one full clear does not get it anymore), slower to level 6. .

Mobility much more important: you spend more time running between camps.

There's definitely more viability for farm junglers.

Razors/Wriggles nerfed (proc damage went down), although it's unclear which junglers are going to stop taking it.
statisticalfool
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Reply #24 on: November 29, 2011, 02:10:17 PM

So the early feedback from people doing the math on reddit:

Your first clear will be slower and not get you to 4, although there are some new routes (wolves -> blue -> wraiths -> wolves -> golems -> red -> wraiths).

Junglers will have to burn less pots/not take cloth armor.

Your gold will be slightly less. Your XP will be a lot less (duo lane or worse).

Ganks are a lot riskier: waste time not farming your constantly respawning jungle and get nothing out of it? You're going to fall further back.

I think I'm going to practice my AD champs.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #25 on: November 29, 2011, 03:12:05 PM

Sounds like they are turning jungle into more of a "grab buff on way back to your lane" than a viable strat for soloing.

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statisticalfool
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Reply #26 on: November 29, 2011, 04:52:38 PM

I don't think so. I think the gains from jungle (mainly in more xp/gold for your top lane), still are too big, especially if the other team has a jungler and is taking your buffs.

It's just this awkward spot where the jungler is now going to fall behind without some early snowball.
DLRiley
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Reply #27 on: November 29, 2011, 05:04:47 PM

I remember Riot acknowledging that SR favors passive defensive play too much, so what does riot do? Make the game even more about passively farmimg your lane! Way to go riot way to excite me about purchasing riot points.

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« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 08:06:57 PM by DLRiley »
Thrawn
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Reply #28 on: November 29, 2011, 05:19:22 PM

Your gold will be slightly less. Your XP will be a lot less (duo lane or worse).

Why jungle then?  swamp poop

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Mosesandstick
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Reply #29 on: November 29, 2011, 05:30:35 PM

One of the main advantages of jungling is that you gain a solo lane. With junglers able to clear the jungle with more health, hopefully ganks will become more prevalent.
Thrawn
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Reply #30 on: November 29, 2011, 05:41:34 PM

One of the main advantages of jungling is that you gain a solo lane. With junglers able to clear the jungle with more health, hopefully ganks will become more prevalent.

But if you're a lower level with less gold your ganks will be worse and it's incentive to spend ALL of your time in the jungle getting xp so you don't fall further behind.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Rasix
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Reply #31 on: November 29, 2011, 05:47:57 PM

It looks the prevalent meta for my level tier remains unchanged then.  awesome, for real

-Rasix
Mosesandstick
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Reply #32 on: November 29, 2011, 05:53:18 PM

But if you're a lower level with less gold your ganks will be worse and it's incentive to spend ALL of your time in the jungle getting xp so you don't fall further behind.

Unfortunately that's part of the jungle. You willl pretty much always be behind but you can ensure that your lanes are ahead. I would prefer it if they tweaked the exp, but I still think people will keep ganking; lane dominance is too big an advantage.
Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #33 on: November 29, 2011, 06:20:42 PM

Yeah, a lower-level jungler doesn't mean the role instantly becomes useless. It does mean that junglers who need to be equal-level to help their teammates are presumably not as great. But I still remember the (brief?) phase in competitive DOTA where teams would run suicide-Techies for the sole purpose of non-stop ganking, frequently resulting in a team with like a 10-9-9-8-3 level distribution that were nonetheless dominating all their lanes and ultimately the game.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 07:50:18 PM by Ice Cream Emperor »
statisticalfool
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Reply #34 on: November 29, 2011, 07:13:09 PM

Yeah, but there are problems here:

* The definition of a successful gank has changed. Ganks where you waste a flash are just not worth it.
* A lot of the gank junglers have trouble speed clearing, I mean, yes, blitzcrank doesn't need that many levels to do his stuff, but he is just woeful at clearing camps fast enough to even come close.

I'm putting money on a hotfix.
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