MMO Subs are a dead model - John Smedley

[sinij]

I do, in fact, drive a Corolla.  I also don't feel the price you pay ...

You drive Corolla with discounted tires, and you eat similarly and it gets job done. Good for you.

Again, what does this has to do with Shadowbane?

[UnSub]

I do, in fact, drive a Corolla.  I also don't feel the price you pay ...

You drive Corolla with discounted tires, and you eat similarly and it gets job done. Good for you.

Again, what does this has to do with Shadowbane?

Price decisions are relative and related to the nebulous concept of "value". It's entirely possible to get more value from spending $5 in a F2P game on a hat for your character each week than spending $15 a month to play and getting the hats for free.

Which is why pure MMO subs are a dying model.

[Ingmar]

Except the reverse could also be true, which is why pure MMO subs aren't a dying model?

I think we're veering really close to tautology territory here.

[tgr]

I have 3 accounts going for EVE, which I never even think about because they just go automatically. Essentially it feels like I'm not paying anything (and I could not pay anything as well if I so chose), unlike what it would be like if I had to go and buy something in a virtual store for real money.

[Lantyssa]

I think we're veering really close to tautology territory here.

How about, good games make money.

[Ingmar]

Yes, exactly. I don't think the particular model they use to charge us is really relevant, only the quality. People will pay via whichever method, if the game is good.

Now, if the game is only mediocre-to-bad, you probably can squeeze out more money with a microtrans model, sure.

[sinij]

Price decisions are relative and related to the nebulous concept of "value". It's entirely possible to get more value from spending $5 in a F2P game on a hat for your character each week than spending $15 a month to play and getting the hats for free.

 

It is entirely possible to get "value" out of getting kicked in your junk, however it is extremely unlikely. Stop with marketing double speak, I will call you out on it every time.

F2P is only free when you don't care to play the game, when you actually get engaged it becomes exponentially more expensive than subscription. More you interested in the title, more you get milked. This is why Smedley and other scum like him are having screaming orgasms at the thought of forcing F2P on unwilling consumers.

Which is why pure MMO subs are a dying model.  

Not going to happen, consumer preferences of not getting nickel-and-dimed to death run pretty deep. Unless you have tobacco-sized marketing budget to change public opinion you might as well give up on this.

[sinij]

Yes, exactly. I don't think the particular model they use to charge us is really relevant, only the quality.

"MT/F2P design ideology is to keep most players annoyed for longest possible time before they quit in frustration by designing barely-tolerable experience to encourage MT use to get around cock blocks ."

Now please explain to me how are you going to get "only the quality" when your DESIGN GOAL is to piss off players enough to make them pay, and not enough to make them quit... while intersection point of profit optimization has healthy number of "quit in frustration" players.

[Mrbloodworth]

That's only a handful of companies ideology (Mostly Facebook). There are lots of games that do not do that, many are supported by fluff alone. You should also look up the story behind cow clicker.

[Ingmar]

Yeah, your entire core premise is wrong, not every company sets out with that as their design goal. Not even most companies set out with that as their design goal.

[UnSub]

Price decisions are relative and related to the nebulous concept of "value". It's entirely possible to get more value from spending $5 in a F2P game on a hat for your character each week than spending $15 a month to play and getting the hats for free.

 

It is entirely possible to get "value" out of getting kicked in your junk, however it is extremely unlikely. Stop with marketing double speak, I will call you out on it every time.

F2P is only free when you don't care to play the game, when you actually get engaged it becomes exponentially more expensive than subscription. More you interested in the title, more you get milked. This is why Smedley and other scum like him are having screaming orgasms at the thought of forcing F2P on unwilling consumers.

Which is why pure MMO subs are a dying model.  

Not going to happen, consumer preferences of not getting nickel-and-dimed to death run pretty deep. Unless you have tobacco-sized marketing budget to change public opinion you might as well give up on this.

There are those who pay to have their testicles stamped on, sure. You're right that it probably isn't for most men though, but it is a service that some are willing to pay for.

I appreciate your view of gamers as poor defenceless victims just waiting to be bilked. Again, players have an option of playing or not playing depending on the model they are faced with (and with F2P they usually get a pretty good sampling of the game). This is the same under the subscription model and the microtrans model. Smedley can try to "force" things all he wants - if the product isn't up to scratch, it isn't going to earn profits for them.

And consumer preferences have changed, or else F2P titles would all collapse pretty quickly post-launch / post-conversion. They don't, because dropping that box cost and sub fee means more players come along to trial the game. More trials can (if the game is of a good enough standard) lead to more playing players and it's better from an overall revenue point of view to have 2m players paying $2 on average than having 100k paying $14 on average.

Good games might make money, but the vast majority of MMO players have room for only one sub-based game. So it isn't enough to just be good, you have to be the best and only one game gets that title. Microtrans gives MMOs more flexibility in how to earn revenue and being F2P means players can leave it on their desktop and log in whenever they like. Yes, the F2P market will over-saturate at some point, but it has a lot greater capacity than the box-and-sub market.

[Sky]

Who has time for more than one mmo? Even back on the old Station pass, I was just playing EQ2 and PS, I didn't have time for SWG.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yeah, but back then, your options were limited. Quite sure the number of MMO's/Persistent games out there has more than quadrupled.

[Sky]

Yeah, but back then, your options were limited. Quite sure the number of MMO's/Persistent games out there has more than quadrupled.

Who has time for more than one mmo? Even back on the old Station pass, I was just playing EQ2 and PS, I didn't have time for SWG.

Actually, I had way more free time back then, too.

[Fabricated]

Gamers aren't innocent people waiting to be bilked, they're sociopaths who will gladly drop cash to simply feel better than other people.

[Numtini]

I've found as I have less time to game, I want more diversity. When I was hardcore raiding in EQ2, it was all I played. I think it's that the casual game isn't as interesting, so I end up casually playing the casual elements of two or three games. Right now tanks and UO and I was doing the SWTOR betas.

So for me, the more free to play is great. I'm sort of hoping I can get the EQ2 stuff in order enough to be able to go in and grab a group and do an instance now and again.

[Mrbloodworth]

Gamers aren't innocent people waiting to be bilked, they're sociopaths who will gladly drop cash to simply feel better than other people.

Like I said. Google the story of "Cow clicker". Its extremely insightful.

Here: Cow Clicker NPR Interview.

[Numtini]

I caught that when it was on air. Second the recommendation. Fantastic interview.

[sinij]

I caught that when it was on air. Second the recommendation. Fantastic interview.

It is. Underlying point of this is if you could make money with no-effort low-risk games, there is no incentive not to flood the market with them and only do them. The Future that MT promise are Cow Clicker games. More of them.

[shiznitz]

I have to admit I am in this boat.  I like games where I can supplement my play instantly with micro-trans.  I also don't like being tied to one game via subscription.  I have changed to prefer dabbling in multiple games versus playing the same one (almost always a diku in the past) every night.

[Merusk]

Gamers aren't innocent people waiting to be bilked, they're sociopaths who will gladly drop cash to simply feel better than other people.

A brilliant summation.

[DLRiley]

Man sinji hasn't been banned yet 

[Merusk]

There's only been about 6 or 7  people who have been perma-banned.  Those folks went out of their way to ignore mods, taunt people and break the few rules we do have.    Hell, even WUA's stunt only earned him a 3-day/ week and he was outright told not to do it again or he was taking a vacation.

This place tolerates a lot of stupid.. mostly to laugh at it.

[Mosesandstick]

I think it's because we're actually really friendly folk.

[Rasix]

Man sinji hasn't been banned yet 

What makes you think he'd go before you?

[DLRiley]

Man sinji hasn't been banned yet 

What makes you think he'd go before you?

I leave threads alone 

[MuffinMan]

Meh, if you're perma-banned you can just make a new account with a new name and keep posting anyways.

[tgr]

B-b-b-but my postcount

[Merusk]

Except for a very specific few, yeah, that'll work.   I think if SirBruce ever came 'round again he'd just be banned once more.

[Rasix]

Hyu might be smart enough to not get caught this time.

[Lantyssa]

Does he have the willpower though?

[Azazel]

Who has time for more than one mmo? Even back on the old Station pass, I was just playing EQ2 and PS, I didn't have time for SWG.

It depends on how hardcore you are. Realistically, I don't have time for one, but with the holidays coming up I'll resub to WoW (damn you, free Diablo!) and with LOTRO being F2P/lifetime I don't give a shit and can dabble as I feel like. Of course, if I were a raider or cared about endgame and such things, one MMO would take up more than all my available time.

[Merusk]

Hyu might be smart enough to not get caught this time.

12TH TIME'S THE CHARM!

[Furiously]

Makes me think about how horrid ac1 looked.

[sinij]

Why are we discussing bannings of SirBruce again?