MMO Subs are a dead model - John Smedley

[Lantyssa]

I love the memories of my old AD&D bookshelf. Paging through the monster manual and remembering different times and people.

I do the same, but it's kind of bittersweet, so I can't do it too often.

[Trippy]

I've still got all my old D&D shit upstairs in a bookshelf.  I wish I could find my gammaworld set.

Metamorphosis Alpha! I loved that game (it was the precursor to Gamma World). I wonder if I can find a copy of the original edition.

[Numtini]

There's probably a pdf out there on a torrent. I managed to snag all the old out of print Gloranthan Runequest stuff, which is my Game of Nostalgia. (The new Heroquest is pretty amazing, I just wish I had a group.)

[Ingmar]

Legit PDF:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=50526&src=FrontPage&

[Azazel]

Which is totally cool. I'm just saying that if you have a bunch of old gamer farts looking to do a TT game and they're scattered to the four winds, G+ is made for you. Just get those guys together, make your accounts, friend nobody but each other and check Hangouts.

Yeap, what's left of my four olde-thyme Roleplaying groups are the two guys who are my semi-regular friday night WoW Titan Quest Left4Dead LotRO group.

[UnSub]

Bigpoint sells 2000 drones in 4 days at E1000 a pop.

That's E4m of pure cream (that yes, goes to supporting all those players who don't pay) from a single virtual item.

And it's why SWOR will have a cash shop.

[Ingmar]

Which is totally cool. I'm just saying that if you have a bunch of old gamer farts looking to do a TT game and they're scattered to the four winds, G+ is made for you. Just get those guys together, make your accounts, friend nobody but each other and check Hangouts.

Yeap, what's left of my four olde-thyme Roleplaying groups are the two guys who are my semi-regular friday night WoW Titan Quest Left4Dead LotRO group.

That's 2 people away from a 'standard' Pathfinder group or 3 people away from a 4e one. Wives? Older kids?

[Azazel]

Bigpoint sells 2000 drones in 4 days at E1000 a pop.

That's E4m of pure cream (that yes, goes to supporting all those players who don't pay) from a single virtual item.

And it's why SWOR will have a cash shop.

And in the follow-up post, Mr.Shitty-Games Journalism figures out that they may have sold 2000 drones, but E1l a pop didn't happen. Also, apparently this game has 65m accounts, which aside from sounding very dodgy in and of itself, this tool extrapolates to mean 1/10 of all humans on the planet have an account. Rather than several million people have 10 accounts each. Or a pile of bullshit fed to him and eaten up with a spoon. Considering his fact-checking on the first post.. well...

[eldaec]

There are more than 650M live humans on earth.

[UnSub]

Yes, it was clarified that:

    The 10th drone exists (you can see a picture of it above)
    To buy the 10th Drone, you need to buy all the previous drones (the first, the second, the third and so on.)
    If you tried to buy the 10th Drone without owning any other drones, it would cost you around €1,000
    Bigpoint has sold 2,000 10th Drones in November 2011
   The 10th Drone isn’t available for cash. It is only available for the in-game currency Uridium. Uridium can be acquired by playing the game, or for real money.

It wasn't clear how many people bought the 10th drone who also owned other drones, or the amount of RMT that took place to buy the drone.

So yes, Bigpoint didn't make as much money as originally indicated, but they still likely made a hefty wad of cash out of it.

[sinij]

Lets for a moment suspend our disbelief and assume that they did sell fair number of $1000 gizmos.

$1000 in real world would buy you 5 nice dinners for 2, or set of nice new tires for your car, or new tablet, or buy a nice new flat screen TV, or have a very good weekend in Vegas. While this is not mind-boggling amount, most would consider it "fair bit of money" and outside of compulsive purchase range. People might not count hundreds of dollars but almost anyone, except top 0.5%, count thousands. So if this is outside of compulsive purchase range it has to offer value comparable to other ways you could spend this money. This would inevitably translate to something so game-breaking that it will inevitably affect other players, creating ill-will. The only way around this ill-will is to provide in-game means of acquiring the same gizmo then making it so mind-numbingly boring or impossibly difficult that almost nobody could get it without paying.

At this point, as a developer, you are spending time finding a way to frustrate/cockblock player from getting most desirable cash shop items without paying. Wouldn't your efforts be better spent making game more fun?

[Lantyssa]

Five dinners!?  The heck you eating at?

[Ratman_tf]

At this point, as a developer, you are spending time finding a way to frustrate/cockblock player from getting most desirable cash shop items without paying. Wouldn't your efforts be better spent making game more fun?

HERESEY! Games aren't about fun! They're about making money!

[UnSub]

At this point, as a developer, you are spending time finding a way to frustrate/cockblock player from getting most desirable cash shop items without paying. Wouldn't your efforts be better spent making game more fun?

If your game isn't fun, people aren't going to put the money in.

Along with "pay to get the item" and "earn the item in-game" is the option "walk away".

[Ingmar]

Five dinners!?  The heck you eating at?

I also wonder where he's buying his tires.

[Kageru]

The other side of the problem is if they're selling a 1000eu item it has to more or less "break" game balance. People aren't going to pay that much money for a cosmetic item. It has to be something that more or less tilts the game strongly in their favor, allows them to dominate others (since it's a ego-booster most times) and can't be nerfed or superseded without massively aggravating the player base. I wonder how many people who weren't willing to spend so much money stopped playing on the basis they can't compete now.

[Merusk]

Five dinners!?  The heck you eating at?

I also wonder where he's buying his tires.

Oh surely he's not THIS bad at money at his age and is just trolling us.

[Sky]

Oh surely he's not THIS bad at money at his age and is just trolling us.

Not mutually exclusive nor unlikely.

[Rokal]

Oh surely he's not THIS bad at money at his age and is just trolling us.

Inflation estimates he made from his bomb shelter didn't turn out very accurate.

[Xanthippe]

Five dinners!?  The heck you eating at?

5 _nice_ dinners for two.  10 dinners for $1000 or $100/per.  Drinks, wine, tax, tip, sounds about right for a fancy night out.  $200 evening.

We don't go out for those anymore.  Heck, I don't even have a wardrobe for those anymore.  But we did back when we had more disposable income (although that was 15 years ago and those dinners cost $150).

[Ingmar]

Yeah that part is vaguely understandable.

The tires though? My last set were less than 1/3 that and felt expensive.

[Merusk]

There apparently aren't the kind of "nice" restaurants y'all are talking about around here.. because I've never, ever had a $100 per person meal.  Even McCormck & Schmick or Palomino downtown isn't that much.

[ghost]

Really?  Two bottles of vino and two fat steaks later and you're at easy $125 a pop.  Granted, most of my meals at that level have either been anniversary or drug rep (says a lot about the drug companies ). 

[MahrinSkel]

Yeah, I've seen quite a few restaurants where you could hit $100 a plate before wine was even counted in without trying too hard.  Any 5 star hotel, for starters.

--Dave

[sinij]

What the fuck have you done to this thread?!

By popular demand - I am foodie, so I eat at nice places, not at all difficult to hit $200 for two with appetizer, wine, desert and a good tip.  Would you relate better if I told you could have 200 crappy McDonalds dinners?

I like Michelin tires, they start at $150 a pop, mine are almost $200 and to me they worth every dollar. I can't say enough good things about Primacy MXM4, and one thing I would never suggest bargain bin hunting for are tires. Those are not even ran-flats that could easily hit $300 a pop.

[Merusk]

Really?  Two bottles of vino and two fat steaks later and you're at easy $125 a pop.  Granted, most of my meals at that level have either been anniversary or drug rep (says a lot about the drug companies ). 

Ah, must be the wine. A "Fat Steak" around here is $27 maybe $30. I was struggling to come anywhere above $50 a head.

Then again I don't think there's any 5 star restaurants in Cincinnati anymore.  The lone 4-star high-end place everyone talked about closed 4-5 years ago because they couldn't pay the rent.  If you need to ask why, look up Skyline Chili sometime.  That's considered good eating around here.

[Lantyssa]

I know where to eat very well for under $15 a person.  I'm sure you can spend more, but then you're also welcome to send me money.

[Sky]

I know where to eat very well for under $15 a person.  I'm sure you can spend more, but then you're also welcome to send me money.

Yuuuup! We tend to spend $30-50 depending on the place and if I have a beer and she has a dessert, and these are places with actual talented chefs. Something to be said for living in a depressed area.

But to follow the $100/person meal thing: a year of mmo sub is cheaper than going out for dinner once with your SO. Make a nice meal at home and then enjoy the ridiculous bang for the buck mmo provides. I honestly don't see why people have an issue with $15 a month. There are few things you can do for that dollar per hour rate. I bet game corporations WISH the sub model was dead, but it's a great value for gamers.

[UnSub]

What the fuck have you done to this thread?!

People can't believe that you'd pay $100 for selected morsels while they pay $15 for all-they-can-eat.

[Count Nerfedalot]

What are you guys buying tires for? Corollas? Don't good quality speed-rated performance radials for a muscle/sports car still start somewhere around $250 each and go up from there? Back in the early nineties I was spending $250/tire for my 4-cylinder turbo, just so it would stay on the road after every rain. And friends with real cars (8-cylinders) were spending $350-$450 each. I can't imagine tire prices have fallen all that much in 20 years (ack! that was a long time ago  ), what with inflation and all? If you've got a Vette or a full powered Mustang or something you really shouldn't be driving on wet roads with anything less unless you drive like a granny on her way to church. Or have tire prices indeed fallen that much for equivalent quality?

As for $100/person meals, I've never done it, and now as a lowly state employee I probably never will, but when you can't get out of Outback for less than $30 counting tip, and that's drinking just water, I can see a steak at a Morton's or nicer with wine easily blowing through $100.

[MahrinSkel]

Most of us aren't driving performance cars.  When I was driving a muscle car (a 78 Cabellero, to be specific), I had two sets of tires (a cheap, narrow set of all-weather radials, and a set of wide sticky racing tires on alloy rims), and spent 80% of the time running the cheap ones.  Why would I put a $1K set of tires on a minivan?

--Dave

[Fordel]

What are you guys buying tires for? Corollas?

Yes?

[Lantyssa]

As for $100/person meals, I've never done it, and now as a lowly state employee I probably never will, but when you can't get out of Outback for less than $30 counting tip, and that's drinking just water, I can see a steak at a Morton's or nicer with wine easily blowing through $100.

I do, in fact, drive a Corolla.  I also don't feel the price you pay for an upscale restaurant matches an increases in food quality.  I've done it a few times and was not impressed.  I'd rather eat at the little hole-in-the-wall where they serve good tasting food for a reasonable price and I can be friendly with the waitstaff and owners.

[Count Nerfedalot]

All good points and actually matching my current lower stress lifestyle, but my point was that Sinji's price comparisons were by no means unrealistic.

Oh, and I think I may have been technically incorrect (or imprecise at least) about never spending $100 on a meal as I'd forgotten about a couple of celebratory occasions at swanky places in Sydney purchased with Australian dollars back when they were about as valuable as monopoly money.

[UnSub]

Currently the $AU is worth more than the $US. USA! USA! USA!