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Author Topic: 1.5: Let's give this one more hurrah...  (Read 55908 times)
Draegan
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Reply #70 on: September 20, 2011, 02:45:13 PM

The spec won't work now, it'll only work in 1.5.
Shatter
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Reply #71 on: September 20, 2011, 03:02:00 PM

Yeah I know but I can get used to having to phase again while I DPS.  I think the only spec I have out of 5 where I use Riftstalker is my Whitefall steppes shard runnign spec
Nebu
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Reply #72 on: September 20, 2011, 03:25:16 PM

Serious question: Have any of you guys currently playing a rogue/warrior played a mage or cleric in level 50 pvp? 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Shatter
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Reply #73 on: September 20, 2011, 03:46:49 PM

Serious question: Have any of you guys currently playing a rogue/warrior played a mage or cleric in level 50 pvp? 

Yes, I have/had 2 accounts.  My first has 2 rogues...one defiant one guardian both are rank 6, one is almost 7.  My second account which is closed Sept 24 has 2 clerics, both 50..one is rank 3 the other just hit 50 so its rank 1. 
Nebu
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Reply #74 on: September 20, 2011, 03:53:41 PM

Yes, I have/had 2 accounts.  My first has 2 rogues...one defiant one guardian both are rank 6, one is almost 7.  My second account which is closed Sept 24 has 2 clerics, both 50..one is rank 3 the other just hit 50 so its rank 1. 

Does playing a cleric (particularly after playing a rogue for a while) give you a different perspective on rogues/warriors, particularly the mechanics of bullrush and stealth/sap?  I assume that it does as you still play a rogue as your primary. 


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Shatter
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Reply #75 on: September 20, 2011, 04:07:16 PM

Playing a cleric is why I feel they are more powerful then a rogue.  Granted even at rank 3, I still dont have all the rank 3 gear I fair ok against the average player but I get raped pretty hard against well geared rogues warriors and mages and other clerics.  However, the problems I see dont come from your average player base, its the high end thats the problem.  Like I said before I dont feel rogues scale as well with high end gear as the warriors and clerics have.  Clerics still benefit the most from valor over any other class, I guess mages to a large degree as well.  I can imagine my cleric in rank 6+ gear sitting on valor that gives 40% dmg reduction in PvP and laughing at people that try to kill me.  Rank 7-8 is when it becomes virtually impossible for me as a rogue to kill mages, warriors and clerics who have the gear, specs and intelligence enough.  I dont feel like holding onto 2 accounts anymore so thats why I canceled one and since I had this much "work" into my 2 rogues I decided to keep that account open and cancel the other.  I fI could transfer my clerics to this account I probably would and play at least the rank 3 to get him higher rank.
Nebu
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Reply #76 on: September 20, 2011, 04:19:39 PM

Having the ability to a) debuff 80% of someone's damage every minute and b) heal yourself is a bit too much.  I was more interested in how you feel about having a rank 8 rogue appear on top of you from stealth, stun you, and vanish the moment that things start going bad. 

My point being that the abilities Rogues get are really fun if you're the one playing the rogue.  They're just not so much fun when you're the victim of the rogue.  I don't know how Trion will ever be able to balance rogues and warriors.  Rogues have the ability to both initiate an encounter and leave an encounter when it's going bad.  Coupled to stuns, that's a very powerful skill set to have.  If their damage is brought to that of warriors, I think rogues will do so well that everyone will soon be playing one... and that makes for a pretty uninteresting warfront. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Shatter
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Reply #77 on: September 20, 2011, 04:34:33 PM

Having the ability to a) debuff 80% of someone's damage every minute and b) heal yourself is a bit too much.  I was more interested in how you feel about having a rank 8 rogue appear on top of you from stealth, stun you, and vanish the moment that things start going bad. 

My point being that the abilities Rogues get are really fun if you're the one playing the rogue.  They're just not so much fun when you're the victim of the rogue.  I don't know how Trion will ever be able to balance rogues and warriors.  Rogues have the ability to both initiate an encounter and leave an encounter when it's going bad.  Coupled to stuns, that's a very powerful skill set to have.  If their damage is brought to that of warriors, I think rogues will do so well that everyone will soon be playing one... and that makes for a pretty uninteresting warfront. 

You're right, I hate rogues / stealth classes unless Im playing one.  They might not be so bad if there werent stuns, etc.  Again, and like Draegan pointed out that on high geared classes a rogue cant even come close to an intitate, stun and kill type of encounter.  Clerics can live through it at this level than heal to full.  Warriors will easily live through it then rape your face.  Keep in mind too that most people have at least 1 break free of sorts whether they get it in their pvp tree or a standard tree and it makes you immune to any CC's for 5-7 seconds afterwards which negates rogues pretty heavily.  There are a lot of things in Rift PvP wise that are retarded from CC to buff purging, PvP would be a lot more fun without this crap.  However you need to understand my point as a high rank PvP rogue not being able to hit the back line where a healer is and kill them is very frustrating especially when thats supposed to be my job.  Instead I attack that back row healer and they bunny hopo away laughing at the loldps I am tickling them with
Draegan
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Reply #78 on: September 20, 2011, 04:35:54 PM

Yeah I know but I can get used to having to phase again while I DPS.  I think the only spec I have out of 5 where I use Riftstalker is my Whitefall steppes shard runnign spec

There is a change though.  You can blink every 10 seconds with only 3 shifts.  They changed cooldown stuff.
Nebu
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Reply #79 on: September 20, 2011, 04:47:19 PM

However you need to understand my point as a high rank PvP rogue not being able to hit the back line where a healer is and kill them is very frustrating especially when thats supposed to be my job.  Instead I attack that back row healer and they bunny hopo away laughing at the loldps I am tickling them with

I understand completely.  That's why I play MM.  I feel as MM I can be much more disruptive to healers/casters than I can with a melee rogue. 

I also agree that melee rogues need a boost.  I just fear that they will get a boost to the point where the better rogues out there will become gods in the process of bringing the average player up to par.  I don't mind losing to clerics, mages, and to a lesser degree to warriors because I can see them coming and position/kite accordingly.  Positioning doesn't help much against invisible players.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Shatter
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Reply #80 on: September 20, 2011, 05:59:15 PM

I have an MM spec as well and MM(pre-1.5) is ok but I feel the improvements on test are very necessary for the class.  I enjoy the AE aspect of the class combined with Ranger rain of arrows, single target DPS is a bit weak I find...how are you specd?  I typically use Marksman / ranger / Infiltrator combinations although Ive been thinking of dropping the Inf in place of something else. 


Shatter
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Reply #81 on: September 20, 2011, 09:58:05 PM

I went with this MM spec tonight and it went well, was typically within top 5 for DPS.

Marksman (38) / Nightblade (16) / Infiltrator (12)

I was able to get some difficult players down with Improved hit and run + Empowered Shot spam + Deadeye but anytime that was down a tougher player simply wouldnt drop.  I ran into 2 warriors tonight and 1 cleric that even with Improved, ES and Deadeye I wasnt able to make much of a dent in them.  In fact one warrior when the 15 seconds was over I only had him down to half HP or just under and that was using bulls eye twice for two Deadeye crits.  He was mitigating about 70% or more of my dmg the entire fight so my 2000+ deadeye crits were only doing 500-600dmg.  His Hp was around 10K. 
Threash
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Reply #82 on: September 20, 2011, 10:09:15 PM

You really can't drop anyone with access to healing without a 50% health debuff.  Rogues are getting three new ones with the patch if i'm not mistaken, from nightblade assassin and marksman.

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Shatter
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Reply #83 on: September 21, 2011, 05:45:41 AM

You really can't drop anyone with access to healing without a 50% health debuff.  Rogues are getting three new ones with the patch if i'm not mistaken, from nightblade assassin and marksman.

Yeah was going to go higher into Inf for the debuff but opted for just DPS.  Ill have to rework the build anyhow when 1.5 goes live.  My main builds I use right now which are mostly melee all have it in one form or another
March
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Reply #84 on: September 21, 2011, 01:19:33 PM

Patch hitting next week.

This...

Chronicles – Teams of two players (or one, if you’ve got the gear) can take on Rift Chronicles, exploring breathtaking dungeons — including Greenscale’s Blight, Hammerknell, and the Chronicles of Attunement—in fun, story-driven adventures!

..alarms me.

Was holding on in the hope of further solo advancement; will see what they mean by "having the gear," but if they mean I need to have group dungeon gear to do solo content... then I'm done (not a threat, just an observation).
luckton
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Reply #85 on: September 21, 2011, 01:24:08 PM

Patch hitting next week.

This...

Chronicles – Teams of two players (or one, if you’ve got the gear) can take on Rift Chronicles, exploring breathtaking dungeons — including Greenscale’s Blight, Hammerknell, and the Chronicles of Attunement—in fun, story-driven adventures!

..alarms me.

Was holding on in the hope of further solo advancement; will see what they mean by "having the gear," but if they mean I need to have group dungeon gear to do solo content... then I'm done (not a threat, just an observation).


My understanding is that the first Chronicle can be done using quest gear from Stillmore/Shimmersand quests.  Assuming one doesn't just stop at Whitefall when they hit 50 and try to attempt it, you should be able to farm the Chronicle to get the stuff you need for the other Chronicles.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
dd0029
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Reply #86 on: September 21, 2011, 01:30:06 PM

And there's also the bit about getting T2 quality gear from lvl 50 zone events and expert rifting.

I have not heard about the Chronicle of Attunement.  From some of what I have read, if you have a good solo spec able to handle groups - ie necro/lock or some of the -icar clerics - a fresh 50 can solo the GSB chronicle with good play.
Sky
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WWW
Reply #87 on: September 21, 2011, 01:32:54 PM

Might be some hope for my necrolock, then. If I can slog through the next 9 levels, anyway...

Threash
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Reply #88 on: September 21, 2011, 01:42:22 PM

They probably said gear when they should have said class.  My warrior can solo tons of shit easily, my rogue would have a problem soloing anything.

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Draegan
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Reply #89 on: September 21, 2011, 02:03:14 PM

You can get full T2 stuff by just hoping from invasion to invasion getting inscribed soursestones.

The first Chronicle you do at 50, takes 10 minutes and gives you 2 planar attunement dings with some blue weps at the end. 

It's duo content, I'm sure clever people will be able to solo it with certain specs.
Threash
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Reply #90 on: September 21, 2011, 03:37:05 PM

One thing my low rank rogue can do that my warrior can't is easily solo the world pvp quests.  Even the 25 kills one is just a matter of time and opportunism, with my warrior trying to do them without a raid is an exercise in frustration.

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Sky
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Reply #91 on: September 21, 2011, 03:46:04 PM

It's duo content, I'm sure clever people will be able to solo it with certain specs.
While I understand what you're saying, a kick in the nuts is still a kick in the nuts. I resubbed on the promise of solo dungeons, if it doesn't work out that way, that's the end for Trion in my book (my own book, I imagine they'll be ok as a company, hah).

Threash
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Reply #92 on: September 21, 2011, 03:56:34 PM

What do you play?

I am the .00000001428%
Sky
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Reply #93 on: September 21, 2011, 04:13:16 PM

What do you play?
THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE

Necrolock

Rokal
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Reply #94 on: September 21, 2011, 04:14:17 PM

It's duo content, I'm sure clever people will be able to solo it with certain specs.
While I understand what you're saying, a kick in the nuts is still a kick in the nuts. I resubbed on the promise of solo dungeons, if it doesn't work out that way, that's the end for Trion in my book (my own book, I imagine they'll be ok as a company, hah).

Solo the intro chronicle, solo lvl 50 rifts for T2-equiv gear, solo the harder chronicles?

Why do you assume 'solo' content means 'easy at all gear levels'? You still have a method to do the content solo, but there will be some challenge/effort in doing so.
Threash
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Reply #95 on: September 21, 2011, 04:21:09 PM

What do you play?
THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE

Necrolock

You'll be fine :P

I am the .00000001428%
Sky
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Reply #96 on: September 21, 2011, 06:35:23 PM

Why do you assume 'solo' content means 'easy at all gear levels'?
No assumption to mouth action here, Holmes.

Shatter
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Reply #97 on: September 21, 2011, 06:54:42 PM

They probably said gear when they should have said class.  My warrior can solo tons of shit easily, my rogue would have a problem soloing anything.

Well gear certainly helps, my rogues can solo a lot of tough mobs with the right specs.  Not hard to drop 50 elite mobs and literally avoid almost 100% of the dmg.  On a side note I was just looking at the rank 7/8 gear since im almost rank 7 and the jump from rank 6 to 7 on most pieces is a signifigant jump compared to rank 4 to 5 and rank 5 to 6.  No wonder rank 7 and 8 players are gods.  The rank 6 dagger has top end dmg of 79 with a DPS of 33.6, the rank 8 weapon is 105 with DPS of 44.7..dam
Draegan
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Reply #98 on: September 21, 2011, 09:21:09 PM

Sky is just being batshit crazy as usual.  He ENJOYS being disappointed.  He looks for reasons to be :D
Rokal
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Reply #99 on: September 21, 2011, 11:01:42 PM

Sky is just being batshit crazy as usual.  He ENJOYS being disappointed.  He looks for reasons to be :D

That sounds like 90% of the people on F13.
Nebu
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Reply #100 on: September 22, 2011, 12:42:27 AM

There's a huge difference between "enjoying being disappointed" and "expecting to be disappointed".  Rift is a great game, but let's be serious here.  Given Hartsman's talent, the game is filled with squandered opportunities.  

Given the track record of recent MMO releases (AoC, WAR, Vanguard, Horizons, Star Trek, Tabula Rasa, Champions Online, etc) there's good reason for anyone here to be skeptical. 
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 12:46:31 AM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Rokal
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Reply #101 on: September 22, 2011, 12:57:31 AM

I'm not saying the game is flawless. Most people here (and in the MMO 'community' in general) focus on the negative rather than the positive in any game they talk about. Look at any thread for an upcoming game and you'll typically see more focus on "what features will suck" rather than "what features will be good". People seem to take more pleasure in watching an MMO fail than in seeing one succeed. The 'complaints' thread on this Rift section of the forums is 4x as long as the 'what went right' thread.

You think Rift is a great game. I think it's pretty good too. It certainly nailed a lot of things at launch, especially compared to most MMOs that have launched in the last few years. They've done a great job listening to players and actually implementing that feedback in a timely manor. Why is there more discussion about what's wrong with the features in 1.5 than what's right?

Complaining that Trion 'didn't deliver' on solo content just because that solo end-game content isn't easy is a stupid complaint. I could understand if the Chronicles were almost impossible in the best gear you could get from soloing, but that isn't the case here.

Here is an article talking about what's coming with 1.5. I see a *lot* of stuff to be happy/excited about.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 01:04:30 AM by Rokal »
March
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Reply #102 on: September 22, 2011, 08:14:21 AM

[Drivel, drivel, drivel...]

Complaining that Trion 'didn't deliver' on solo content just because that solo end-game content isn't easy is a stupid complaint. I could understand if the Chronicles were almost impossible in the best gear you could get from soloing, but that isn't the case here.

If there is a complaint, it is based on the public utterances that their Solo content is designed for Two people - which is a pretty crappy way to design solo content - and has nothing to do with being easy or hard.

It is possible that they are stupidly explaining their content; but it is also possible that they designed stupid content.

Perhaps they are afraid that solo content will drain the group content queues, so to avoid that they made the solo play require two people...or gear from group content; it wouldn't be the first time that devs designed a system that was too clever by half.

Rift has no metagame... its end-game slavishly copies the worst part of WoW, and its world is not big enough nor its non-combat-systems dynamic enough to sustain interest (even I, a hardcore-casual, have 3x 50's that are shelved).  Getting Alternate Advancement and Solo content right is a pretty big deal for the long-term success of the project.
Draegan
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Reply #103 on: September 22, 2011, 08:57:41 AM

RIFT has more endgame content that WOW does.

What meta game are you looking for?
Sky
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Reply #104 on: September 22, 2011, 09:33:26 AM

There's a huge difference between "enjoying being disappointed" and "expecting to be disappointed".  Rift is a great game, but let's be serious here.  Given Hartsman's talent, the game is filled with squandered opportunities.  
Yar, this. Though Trion has consistently exceeded my expectations, my expectations are exceedingly low. That's why I chuckle when considering I'm one of the premiere TOR fanboys: my greatest expectation would be fulfilled if they could deliver a Rift-like experience with the better IP. I can spend the day at work griping about raids and solo players being second-class citizens (let's face it, we are), but at the end of the day, if the game can deliver a solid experience in an environment I can get immersed in, I do enjoy mmo. I played EQ2 for five years, and it certainly wasn't a very original IP or great writing, but the sheer diversity went a long way.

But as March points out, it's hard to not be pissed that "SOLO DUNGEONS" turned into "ok, well duo and maybe solo if you have the right spec."

As I said, though. Trion has a history of remedying things I bitch about, within reason. So I do expect it to loosen up to soloing with maybe a wider array of specs at some point, I hope that's before November 22nd (or whatever the release date of the moment is). And I'm ALWAYS happy to have my expectations exceeded, which is why I even renewb'd to Rift in the first place.

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