The Newsroom

[Segoris]

Outside of being entertained by Will being high (then mixing up Osama and Obama to mess with Mac) and the end bit with the pilots, I thought the episode was horrible.

[MahrinSkel]

What a load of jingoistic crap. I'm officially done now as well.

Be glad you quit before this one, Ironwood. I think you would have popped a blood vessel.

Just accept that that was pretty much how 90% of Americans saw it that day, and we don't give a shit if the rest of the world doesn't like it.  OBL was a dead man walking and the injustice would have been if he managed to die of natural causes before the SEAL's shot him in the eye and dropped his body in the ocean.  That's why we keep hardcore bastards like them around, because sometimes you just have to kill somebody.

Yes, except for a handful of pacifists, that's exactly how even the "left" in the US sees things.

--Dave (edited to avoid offending the delicate sensibilities of the Europeans in the thread)

[Bunk]

Speaking for myself - I think I get how Americans felt about it. You all have every right to be glad that he's dead. What scares the rest of the world is the attitude that killing him would somehow change things. As opposed to, oh I don't know, trying to address the reasons why a billion Muslims in the world think America is evil.

I always assumed that that was the "left wing" view down there. If I'm wrong - then I'm even more afraid than I used to be.

[MahrinSkel]

Nobody thought it would change anything except that OBL would be dead.  That was more than enough.  Yes, those parts of the American populace that are both paying attention and not quietly hoping for a new Crusade would like to find a way to defuse the situation, and are not under the impression that killing one man solved the problem.  We were still *very* glad to hear about it.

Anyway, I'm going to try and avoid verging too far into politics (as much as is possible when discussing a show that is very much about politics).  The episode struck home with its intended audience, and it's the first time in forever I didn't fast-forward through the ending credits.

Pacifists wind up on the American left by default, but you'd do well to remember that Democratic presidents were in charge for about half of our wars (including both World Wars).

--Dave

[HaemishM]

Killing OBL was never about fixing anything. It was about vengeance.

[schild]

Killing OBL was never about fixing anything. It was about vengeance.

Reelection, but sure. We can call it that.

[HaemishM]

Vengeance for Americans. Re-election for politicians. 

[schild]

On a more serious note: This show really, really wasn't made for non-Americans. Every episode is hand-picked to appeal to a certain subset of viewers from their overall demographic. Some of them will very likely be worse than others for most folks.

When the episode for European-Cunts-That-Probably-Like-Dr.-Who comes on, I'll let you all know. Honestly, I don't actually know either of your viewing habits, but I don't know why in the fuck you'd watch The Newsroom - of all things.

[Tebonas]

Fuck you.  Just accept that that was pretty much how 90% of Americans saw it that day, and we don't give a shit if the rest of the world doesn't like it.  OBL was a dead man walking and the injustice would have been if he managed to die of natural causes before the SEAL's shot him in the eye and dropped his body in the ocean.  That's why we keep hardcore bastards like them around, because sometimes you just have to kill somebody.

Yes, except for a handful of pacifists, that's exactly how even the "left" in the US sees things.

--Dave

Yes, I didn't know that even leftist Americans were like that. Therefore seeing it this vividly came as a shock. Thats why the episode disgusted me and thats what I wrote, and thats what is on-topic in this thread.

You can stick your personal insults where the sun doesn't shine, though. Or do it in politics, where the rules are thus that one can answer in kind and insult you back.

Edit: I can answer that schild. Because I loved the West Wing and thought I might like this as well. Obviously I was wrong, but how should I have known that beforehand?

[Bunk]

 Honestly, I don't actually know either of your viewing habits, but I don't know why in the fuck you'd watch The Newsroom - of all things.

Cause it comes on right after True Blood?

[schild]

Edit: I can answer that schild. Because I loved the West Wing and thought I might like this as well. Obviously I was wrong, but how should I have known that beforehand?

I feel like the diatribe about the state of journalism in America in the first episode should've been enough patriotic blunt force trauma to the head to indicate it.

[Tebonas]

I was so high from the first part of the speech that I glossed over the "But we used to be" part. Not that I blame anybody but me for that.

[schild]

Well then, taking 4 episodes to call it jingoistic crap seems a little... silly. Doesn't it?

[Rasix]

Well then, taking 4 episodes to call it jingoistic crap seems a little... silly. Doesn't it?

Last episode was crap, jingoistic or not.  It was just so awkward, sometimes it looked like people were seconds away from breaking into song.  Terry Crews just looked like someone told him Santa Claus is real.

[HaemishM]

Yes, I didn't know that even leftist Americans were like that. Therefore seeing it this vividly came as a shock.

You must never have read our gun control threads. Americans have lizard brains that are overly stimulated by the ultraviolence.

[schild]

Well then, taking 4 episodes to call it jingoistic crap seems a little... silly. Doesn't it?

Last episode was crap, jingoistic or not.  It was just so awkward, sometimes it looked like people were seconds away from breaking into song.  Terry Crews just looked like someone told him Santa Claus is real.

Well, everyone in New York was ready to break into song when they found out Osama was dead. Hell, even Texas was just because yay america something something flags and trucks and shit.

[Ingmar]

Yes, I didn't know that even leftist Americans were like that.

Yes, well, much as you shouldn't believe everything you see on TV, you shouldn't believe everything you read on f13. That goes like, quadruple when Dave is trying to speak for the 'left'.   I know a lot of 'leftist' Americans by virtue of where I live, went to school, and my own leanings, and I know very very few of them who were particularly excited or celebratory or 'fuck yeah America!' (We pretty much only do that for women's soccer matches.)

NYC is obviously going to be a different matter, but that part shouldn't surprise anyone.

[eldaec]

I just got to episode 5 with Egypt and valentines day...

I'm kind of transfixed by the awfulness of it all. I thought about taking it off my DVR, but we're so far through the looking glass I can't drop it now.

Unsure which bit was best/worst...

The Jim and blonde-girl slapstick interlude number twelve.
Glass stegal causing 60 years of prosperity.
The gossip column protection racket shakedown.
Jack McCoy threatening the devious daytime anchor.
The memo line says Coach.

[Tannhauser]

Nobody thought it would change anything except that OBL would be dead.  That was more than enough.  Yes, those parts of the American populace that are both paying attention and not quietly hoping for a new Crusade would like to find a way to defuse the situation, and are not under the impression that killing one man solved the problem.  We were still *very* glad to hear about it.

Anyway, I'm going to try and avoid verging too far into politics (as much as is possible when discussing a show that is very much about politics).  The episode struck home with its intended audience, and it's the first time in forever I didn't fast-forward through the ending credits.

Pacifists wind up on the American left by default, but you'd do well to remember that Democratic presidents were in charge for about half of our wars (including both World Wars).

--Dave

What Dave said.  Also, I don't really care if our Euro friends and their delicate sensibilities are offended.  Not sure how you can love West Wing and not at least like this; both are AMERICA FUCK YEAH programs.

[palmer_eldritch]

On a more serious note: This show really, really wasn't made for non-Americans. Every episode is hand-picked to appeal to a certain subset of viewers from their overall demographic. Some of them will very likely be worse than others for most folks.

When the episode for European-Cunts-That-Probably-Like-Dr.-Who comes on, I'll let you all know. Honestly, I don't actually know either of your viewing habits, but I don't know why in the fuck you'd watch The Newsroom - of all things.

Because the West Wing was so good.

I don't mind the politics of the show. What disappoints me is that the characters don't feel like people, just vehicles for clever one-liners. You don't get lost in the story, instead you feel the scriptwriter at work. It was particularly noticeable in the first section of the episode before the OBL story really began.

Fun fact (odd for a show which is all about how wonderful accurate news would be and how bad Fox is) - at the end, Will McAvoy reports that "America's most wanted criminal took from us 2,977 American sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, friends and colleagues" but while 2,977 is the correct figure, 372 of them, one in eight, were not American. (None of those figures include the hijackers).

[eldaec]

This is nothing like the west wing.

This isn't even a few good men or studio 60.

The character scenes are just flat out bad. Everyone is written as a 13 year old kid except Daniels who seems to be playing head boy, and Sam Waterson appearing as the pantomime dame. The tone is incredibly uneven, attempting understated serious acting one moment, people running into doors the next, and then melodrama after that. The production is espeicially lazy (locations : office, studio, one bar, that's it). The corporate politics is day time soap opera (a gossip column protection racket? Seriously?) And the politics politics is just indulgent claptrap often shoehorned in despite having no relation whatsoever to the plot (glass stegal lessons for no reason other than British lady suddenly not understanding money? Really?)

But I honestly can't stop watching. I have to know how bad this will be next week.

[Ironwood]

This thread has turned a little stupid.

However, to answer one question that appears to have been answered multiple times :  I like Sorkins work and I love the West Wing.  The West Wing is NOT just Jingoistic American Fuck Yeah either :  Those episodes containing Marbury and about the IRA were, frankly, powerful.  A LOT of interesting world stuff was contained therein and it told a story of how America could actually be the world leader it always pretends to be.  Without anyone actually minding, which was the interesting bit.

This show is not powerful.  This show is self indulgent, fantasy twaddle.  It doesn't even show me how people Could Be, because the characters in this are as akin to reality as Pantomime characters.

I've already stopped watching, so this may be my last post, but I will say that the 'discussion' in here suggests that I'm better off having already made this decision....

[lac]

[The West Wing] told a story of how America could actually be the world leader it always pretends to be.  Without anyone actually minding, which was the interesting bit.
This show is not powerful.  This show is self indulgent, fantasy twaddle.  It doesn't even show me how people Could Be, because the characters in this are as akin to reality as Pantomime characters.

This thought. I have felt it fluttering through my mind but it had eluded me, until now.

[schild]

I feel like some folks need to watch some pre and post 9/11 episodes of The West Wing.

[naum]

Not Necessarily ‘The Newsroom’

“The Newsroom” is, of course, an aesthetic train wreck (Olivia Munn as a Ph.D. in Economics is particularly risible), but most troubling about the show are its naïve presuppositions: that once upon a time, there was something called “the news,” a profession whose calling was answered by noble citizens who dutifully and faithfully reported only the truth, divorced from partisan politics. All this come in contrast to the news networks of today; specifically, in contrast to Roger Ailes’ factually dissembling (though immensely popular) Fox News network.

“Fair and Balanced” is Fox News’ cri de coeur, taken at face value by its loyal viewers, and correctly seen as a bit of Orwellian doublespeak by everyone else. Reasonable people understand that there are not two sides to every story (e.g., climate change, evolution), and therefore every story does not need “equal time”. With “The Newsroom”, Sorkin is deliberately harking back to a supposed Golden Age of television news as a corrective to what Ailes us, as it were.

But the foundation underlying “The Newsroom” demonstrates that myth-making is not exclusively the preoccupation of conservatives and Tea Baggers, though Saint Ronald Reagan remains an unparalleled example of absurdist hagiography. Aaron Sorkin’s myth-making is more subtle (in keeping with the tastes of establishment liberalism), though no less disingenuous, and is therefore more pernicious.

If today’s televised newscast is conspicuous for its “potato/po-tah-to” dynamic and its corporate fealty—NBC is owned by General Electric, ABC by Disney, CNN by Time-Warner, Fox by NewsCorp, and so on—then the newscasts of yesteryear was equally conspicuous for their deference to authority. Sorkin is right in saying in the old days, there weren’t two sides to every story, there was just the news. Left unsaid is that “the news” was one side of the story—the government’s side.

[Ingmar]

I love the word 'risible'.

[schild]

I like the word "thesaurus."

[Der Helm]

Then I don't want to spoil you any further. Try to have fun, I would really like to know if there is a Non-Us citizen who liked this.

Not my favourite episode so far, but I was entertained. Got me thinking as well. The death of OBL meant nothing for me, so I found the "american" point of view interesting. I might understand the whole singing and dancing in the streets part a little bit better now.

[Draegan]

The Euros on this board are so funny sometimes.   

[Bzalthek]

I read this thread and had to go out and buy Independence Day on DVD!

[schild]

DVD? What's that?

[Der Helm]

So... am I the only one left watching ?

[Rendakor]

I'm still watching; this week's episode was much better than last.

[WayAbvPar]

I will watch to the bitter end. That doesn't mean I can't still hope that Maggie dies in a fire. God what a terrible character.

[Tannhauser]

Still watching and enjoying, except for JimNMaggie.  It was blessedly free this week, but looks like it comes back next week. 

Loved Mackenzie calling Don a 'master of the dark arts'.  And Don's response.  Some of the dialogue clunks, but most is really entertaining and I like the current plot.

Also, I like Olivia Munnn in this.