Beta testing and release chicken

[luckton]

TOR - Skeptical because of the Origin thing, but if the story is robust, I would like some sort of closure to KotOR 1&2.  Those two games are the ones I've replayed the most in the last 20 years.

The Origin thing, while itself should be taken out back and flogged, was resolved by the Bioware devs a few weeks ago.  It will not be required in order to play/patch the game.  It's just going to be the only way to get the game digitally at launch (and the foreseeable first few weeks/months post release).

[Paelos]

I honestly believe SWTOR will give WoW a run for its money.   

Why?
People play WoW already. Their friends play WoW. Just like every other Wow reskin in the past few years, why would people play "WoW but not as good"?
I was very disheartened by the last few SWTOR videos. It just looks so damn generic.

Because there are plenty of people out there who believe WoW is irrevocably broken and would like to play another version of it with some actual story that makes sense?

[luckton]

I honestly believe SWTOR will give WoW a run for its money.   

Why?
People play WoW already. Their friends play WoW. Just like every other Wow reskin in the past few years, why would people play "WoW but not as good"?
I was very disheartened by the last few SWTOR videos. It just looks so damn generic.

Because there are plenty of people out there who believe WoW is irrevocably broken and would like to play another version of it with some actual story that makes sense?

Winner!

[Morfiend]

Thats all well and good, but it doesnt make it a WoW killer. It makes it something that will bleed off those players. Nothing I have seen from SWTOR says to me that its amazingly better or different from WoW to really draw a huge customer base.

You will draw some of the players with "STARWARZZZ!!!" and some with "Like WoW, but not WoW" but thats not how you give something a run for its money.

Don't get me wrong, I hope it will be fun, I have it preordered, I am just really worried about it after seeing the last few videos and previews. I mean, if the best thing you can show looks sort of stale and boring what does that say about the rest of the game?

[Paelos]

You do realize that was exactly the same argument against WoW when it trumped EQ, right?

[K9]

If the brief history of MMOs has told us anything, new MMOs which seek to displace an existing one by siphoning off its playerbase rarely do well, because the players carry the grievances that split them from the old game with them, while retaining a heavy investment in their past game. TOR has to break new markets, and get new players in, however the pool of potential MMO players is a lot smaller now than when WoW came around. TOR can be a success, but to do so it cannot simply be as good as WoW. WoW got it's head start by being better for a mass audience (arguably) than everything else around at the time; it didn't become a success by carbon-copying the existing format, it added a lot of polish. As it stands, from everything I have seen, TOR lacks that special polish, and is facing an audience who are much wiser to MMO mechanics, and critical of what they expect from a game.

As I say, I don't doubt it will be a success. I just don't see it retaining people well past the first three to six months.

[Morfiend]

You do realize that was exactly the same argument against WoW when it trumped EQ, right?

Yeah, it was exactly the same, except for not.

WoW copied the diku gamestyle of EQ/DAoC, but it did a lot of things. Mostly better than previous games. As with all the games released, they are competing with WoW as it is now. With years of polish. So "the same but with much less polish" just doesn't sound amazing.

Now compare that with everything we know about GW2, they are taking a lot of what is sucky in the current crop of MMOs and trying to do something different. Honestly, I think if ether of these games has a chance to be a WoW killer, its GW2 moreso that SWTOR just due to the fact that GW2 is at least trying to be better.

[Paelos]

You know what WoW did that beat EQ? They billed themselves as more casual, showed that you could actually do quests instead of mindlessly grinding in pve, and they were stable. They also promised pvp as some point in the future. That's pretty much it. They had the IP, a slight tweak, and an easier format.

Now, the big bad in the market is WoW itself. Main complaints against it is that it's lost a sense of community, that the grinds are obvious in their questing lineup, that they have catered too far to the hardcore, and that don't have any semblence of a story that makes any sense.

SWTOR is trying to improve story-telling, make a game that's friendly to pickups and casuals with lower grouping numbers, and polish it so that it runs smoothly. They also have an even more well-known IP than blizzard.

The table is set. Can they expand beyond just MMO fans to Star Wars fans and beyond? Who knows.

[Lakov_Sanite]

it's Star Wars, it's not a fantasy MMO.

 

[01101010]

it's Star Wars, it's not a fantasy MMO.

 

It's a canon MMO

[Sky]

It's a canon MMO

You think I don't know that, you knucklehead?!

[amiable]

I honestly believe SWTOR will give WoW a run for its money.   

Why?

People play WoW already. Their friends play WoW. Just like every other Wow reskin in the past few years, why would people play "WoW but not as good"?

I was very disheartened by the last few SWTOR videos. It just looks so damn generic.

 

[Lantyssa]

Because there are plenty of people out there who believe WoW is irrevocably broken and would like to play another version of it with some actual story that makes sense?

If WoW is irrevocably broken, why would I want to play a clone of it?

[Minvaren]

The Origin thing, while itself should be taken out back and flogged, was resolved by the Bioware devs a few weeks ago.  It will not be required in order to play/patch the game.  It's just going to be the only way to get the game digitally at launch (and the foreseeable first few weeks/months post release).

Hmmm, so I can buy a boxed copy and skip the purported spyware?  Might be an option...

[luckton]

The Origin thing, while itself should be taken out back and flogged, was resolved by the Bioware devs a few weeks ago.  It will not be required in order to play/patch the game.  It's just going to be the only way to get the game digitally at launch (and the foreseeable first few weeks/months post release).

Hmmm, so I can buy a boxed copy and skip the purported spyware?  Might be an option...

Pretty much the option I'm going with.

[Soln]

it's what I did

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Old-Republic-Pc/dp/B001CWXAP2

[Paelos]

Because there are plenty of people out there who believe WoW is irrevocably broken and would like to play another version of it with some actual story that makes sense?

If WoW is irrevocably broken, why would I want to play a clone of it?

WoW wasn't an exact clone of EQ, nor will SWTOR be an exact clone of current WoW. I would like to play a version of WoW where they took all the bullshit out they implemented. Imagine anything they put in where they wanted things to be "meaningful" and that's what I don't want.

[Ingmar]

unimaginative

Mechanically, perhaps. I expect that a fair amount of imagination is necessarily involved in the story side of things.

[Sjofn]

Anyone who believed a word out of Barnett's mouth got what they deserved.  The accent couldn't make up for the used car salesman vibe.

Man, seriously. I never got why anyone liked him in the first place, he was obnoxious and sleazy.


I'm cool with Star Wars WoW, because one of my biggest complaints with WoW currently is the story (I use this word loosely) being a gigantic turd. There's a lot about WoW I like, but there are things I either don't like or have lost patience with, that SWTOR seems like it will not have and/or improve upon. It will also help, of course, that nearly everyone I enjoy playing MMOs with plans to at least try it, so even the social part (although most of my MMO friends have left WoW, so WoW has even lost THAT claim) is covered. But I have never pretended to not enjoy the hell out of the "diku" thing (I played on an LP MUD though ), so I don't think it's a giant crime when a MMO is one.

[Paelos]

I agree with Sjofn. For me it's a DIKU game is just a simple backpack to put stuff in. WoW has piled so much stuff into that backpack that at this point it's just not fun to for me carry around anymore.

I just want to put it all down, pick up a new shiny new empty backpack, and start over.

[Sjofn]

I agree with Sjofn.

 

That means I'm wrong!

[Paelos]

 

[Morfiend]

I agree with Sjofn.

 

That means I'm wrong!

It was bound to happen sooner or later.

[Bunk]

You all do realize, that this thread has now used up two pages worth of SWTOR talk that could have been apended to the mega thread. I am dispoint(ed).

The thing for me with TOR, is that I know its going to be WoW all over again. I actually would love to go back and play WoW again right now - but the last couple times I've tried I've been hit in the face with the fact that the game has been running for six + years. Nothing like going to the auction hall with my untwinked 10th level newbie looking for that last piece of Defias Leather, and finding it there for 80 Gold. Back when I played WoW, my level 50 Hunter never even reached 80 gold.

I fully admit to liking the ding gratz style of gameplay. Diku games have it, Diablo style games have it. It's human nature - the regular reward makes me happy.
Now add in Bioware style storytelling, which has generally been my other favorite motivation to play games in the last ten years, and yes, my anticipation level is high.

As for Diablo 3, I'm actually really shocked that there are people out there that didn't think Diablo 2 was the Robot Jesus. The only other franchise I can think of that got more replay out of me would be Civ.

Release date wise. I'll be shocked if ToR isn't out pre Christmas. Diablo 3, its Blizzard, they'll release it three years after whenever everyone expects them to, and it will still do fine.

[Modern Angel]

You guys saying that you want to play WoW again (not a diku with WoW elements; WoW. In SPAAACCEEEEE) are not going to want to do it all over again once you actually start.

The wailing and gnashing of teeth after two months is going to be amazing.

[Merusk]

You guys saying that you want to play WoW again (not a diku with WoW elements; WoW. In SPAAACCEEEEE) are not going to want to do it all over again once you actually start.

The wailing and gnashing of teeth after two months is going to be amazing.

Yeah.. see.. I enjoy DIKU.  I've done it again and again and again for almost 15 years now.  I know what it is, I know what to expect and I'll enjoy it.  Telling me otherwise is like telling a hardcore FPS player they're just replaying Doom for the billionth time.  Or a Diablo player that it's just another loot pinata they're going to be bitching about inside a month.  Or a magic player that it's just a resource card game and Pokemon is cheaper.

If you don't get it, that's fine.  Doesn't mean you're right.

[Sjofn]

I am perfectly happy "doing it all again." Shit, I do it all again in WoW right now. I have a level 76 mage I've been leveling.  But I know once he hits cap I'll have nothing to do again because I am tired of the five mans, I've stopped raiding, and PvP is silly to do (although I do it on my paladin still, because lol overpowered holy paladin never dies). WoW in Space is a whole mess of shit I haven't played through!

[Rasix]

Yah, I did it all again in Rift, and that wasn't even good leveling content for the most part.  Some of it was Vanilla WoW bad.

[Nebu]

It's a new MMO.  I have to play it.  It's a sick addiction that I have.  I played AC2, AO, and Horizons at release.  My baseline is already so low that just about anything affixed to a DIKU standard will provide me with hours of entertainment!

[luckton]

Yah, I did it all again in Rift, and that wasn't even good leveling content for the most part.  Some of it was Vanilla WoW bad.

Same.  I enjoyed my time in Rift, but in the way they were addressing the end-game at the time, along with other factors, I could see the writing on the wall.

My interest in somewhat moved by their single-player dungeon proposal...

[Rasix]

Yah, I may be back for that.  That's on my perennial MMO wish list.

[Modern Angel]

If you don't get it, that's fine.  Doesn't mean you're right.

You're not following me. Ordinarily, I'm in complete agreement. But what you're all saying is, "Yeah, I don't mind playing 80% WoW with some 20% new shiny to shift things around a bit." I'm saying (hypothetically because !) what if the game is literally a carbon copy of WoW? What if it's basically exactly the same? What if the story you're banking on is every bit as insipid and stupid as WoW's? And what if there really is a full dialogue tree for every single kill ten rats quests, which are even more common than WoW?

Because all you guys are banking on a game that may very well not exist and you're doing it with a conviction that almost beggars belief.

Yah, I did it all again in Rift, and that wasn't even good leveling content for the most part.  Some of it was Vanilla WoW bad.

What'd you do, last two months? Three? Because I'm not certain if two month fly by nighters are going to make up the cost of this monstrosity. Which is entirely my point: it's not that you dudes aren't going to have a good time in short bursts or that it's automatically awful. I am saying that you guys salivating at this are going to do the same thing you do with 99% of the games that get hyped up here, which is play for two months and then piss off to something else. And everyone else will, too.

[HaemishM]

Because all you guys are banking on a game that may very well not exist and you're doing it with a conviction that almost beggars belief.

And thus you've hit upon the only true entertainment left in MMOG's.

[Modern Angel]

Not enough love in the world for that comment.

[Ingmar]

I guess I can see if you didn't enjoy WoW, or don't even seem to understand why other people did/do enjoy WoW, this might be a confusing thing.