Random Sports Discussion

[ghost]

I like how the 3 page SI article about all the good shit he's done for the kids he's coaching mentions none of that.

Paterno did some good shit for people too, but remember that we threw that out the window.  

Seriously, why are you going to defend a sexist asshole?  It makes absolutely no sense to me bro.  Edited to add-  I'm not going to get all Google-fu on you about what Campbell has done.  I would legitimately like to know why he deserves my respect and why I should trust him enough to let my kid spend time with him in a forced leadership position.

[Ingmar]

Because if we take the SI article at face value, he's doing legitimately good things for these kids. That goes on one side of the scale, the other stuff goes on the other, and we can quibble about if it outweighs it or not, but I am pretty sure in this case it doesn't. I don't really see what I am arguing as 'defending' him in any case. Lots of assholes do good things in other arenas. If he wants to do something that's a net good for the kids he's helping, why stand in his way?

There are very few people out there with no redeeming qualities at all.

[Paelos]

If he wants to help, there are numerous outlets other than coaching youth. I question the outlet, not that he can/will/wants-to/is-capable of change.

I'm not saying he shouldn't try to give back to the community. I'm just suspect of a man with those suspect values, towards both women and his own children, being in a role model position for young men.

[ghost]

Yeah, I guess I would feel bad for him if he had a drunk driving conviction 20 years ago and still couldn't get a job.  I see your point, but at the same time I, as a father, would be very careful about letting my kid be associated with him. 

[sickrubik]

sickrubik-  I love it when people claim "straw man" argument.  It makes me laugh.  Make an argument yourself, don't be a moron.  

Well, the problem I was having with that is that you were attempting to put me in positions that I don't support. It was the definition of a straw man, and it's annoying to deal with when you're attempting to have a discussion, regardless of how heated. Because you didn't agree with my points or ignored them doesn't mean I wasn't making an argument.

I'll leave it at that. I had a busy weekend with the fiancee's birthday so I wasn't able to come and check in at all. But it looks like the discussion moved along great, thankfully.

[ghost]

sickrubik-  I love it when people claim "straw man" argument.  It makes me laugh.  Make an argument yourself, don't be a moron.  

Well, the problem I was having with that is that you were attempting to put me in positions that I don't support. It was the definition of a straw man, and it's annoying to deal with when you're attempting to have a discussion, regardless of how heated. Because you didn't agree with my points or ignored them doesn't mean I wasn't making an argument.

I'll leave it at that. I had a busy weekend with the fiancee's birthday so I wasn't able to come and check in at all. But it looks like the discussion moved along great, thankfully.

Actually, I was pretty squarely pointing that one at Paelos and Ingmar.  Sorry for the mixup!   

[sickrubik]

Cite your sources, for those of us that aren't deep into "Rage".

From the daughter: http://thegrio.com/2011/08/29/campbell-it-broke-my-heart-to-be-referred-to-as-a-donation/
Here's where he was arrested in 2009: http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI113267/
Here's the quote he made in 2010: http://theurbandaily.com/819775/luke-campbell-issues-statement-on-sperm-donor-comments/

on reviewing the thread, I don't know where I got my signals crossed and through that was in reference to Zach de la Rocha. I'm going to assume I was still confused about how we were comparing Zach de le Rocha and Luther Campbell.

[ghost]

Oh, I'm just saying that De La Rocha can be a raging prick and uses lots of profanity.  I just threw him out there as an example because he was on my mind (was listening at the time).  There are about a billion people out there that I wouldn't want to teach/coach my kid. 

[01101010]

In other news...

I got to go to the Championship game yesterday at Heinz field for the WFA http://www.wfafootball.com/

It actually was a fun watch and some of those women were insanely good. Overall the play was way slower and the defensive side of the ball was lacking, but there were a ton of big plays and the final 3 minutes were intense. My friend came in from Philly with a few of her teammates to watch and got me a ticket. I got to hang out with them and other teams back at the hotel - man, they put guy talk to shame when they are all together. Fun times.

[01101010]

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/08/08/60-million-dollar-high-school-football-stadium-allen-texas?hpt=ts1&hpt=hp_t3

$60m stadium set for kick off at the end of the month... did I forget to mention it is a high school stadium?   

[Strazos]

For fucking High School Football? 

[Paelos]

For fucking High School Football? 

Hell, I went to high school in Texas and my stadium held about 8,000 and was worth over $10M back in 1999. They just built and indoor facility for $4.5M back in 2011 to go along with the parking deck.

[Fordel]

It's Texas. Texas is crazy when it comes to football and cheer-leading.

[Strazos]

It's Texas. Texas is crazy when it comes to football and cheer-leading.

Again, for high school football? And if they're anything like the players at my high school, all that cash will be spent on a bunch of punks who will amount to not a whole lot after high school; i.e. - the types who, 10 years later, will bitch about paying $50 for reunion tickets (or $100 if they're bringing the baby mama).

[Chimpy]

Again, it is Texas.

You seriously just do not understand how Texas is about high school football. Go watch Varsity Blues, that will give you a taste of the minimum level of insanity they focus towards friday nights.

[cmlancas]

It's Texas. Texas is crazy when it comes to football and cheer-leading.

Again, for high school football? And if they're anything like the players at my high school, all that cash will be spent on a bunch of punks who will amount to not a whole lot after high school; i.e. - the types who, 10 years later, will bitch about paying $50 for reunion tickets (or $100 if they're bringing the baby mama).

I live someplace where folks spend lots of money on HS football programs that are extremely good and consistently produce college and professional stars (Plant, Armwood, Lakeland).

Thing is, yes, for HS football.  We're talking about full rides for college, easily worth $30,000.  And if you're good enough to make it in a draft straight from high school?  $$$

It's amazing how much it costs to live in an apartment zoned for those schools.  Parents will pay insane amounts of money to live in crappy apartments just so folks can have a shot at college educations at high-ranked high schools.

[Teleku]

I wonder how their Art and Music programs are doing.

[Paelos]

I wonder how their Art and Music programs are doing.

A football program and a quality education in those schools aren't really mutually exlusive.

For example, my high school also produced two Academy award winners, a nobel prize winning physicist, a pulitzer prize winning photographer, the founder of Teach for America, a Tony Award winner, and a Gemini astronaut.

EDIT: Also, the high school in question who built the stadium (Allen High School) has a marching band with 680 students. They've played in the Rose Bowl. It's one of the best music programs in the state.

[Teleku]

I understand, but overall this country has some serious priority issues.  $60 million towards the actual education of the students at the school (or even including all the neighboring schools) could do a hell of a lot of good.  While some schools like that may be able to do both, at my High school (and most across the country) the sports programs got huge amounts of money, while funding for general education, teacher salaries, and the arts were constantly slashed.  Most people in the country want to see their child throw the winning pass on a Friday night game, not grow up to be a Nobel winner.

[Paelos]

And yet, this school has the means to build a stadium and produce one the finest music programs in Texas.

Be fair, you asked a question and got an answer that surprised you. I would think that would make you happy, and might show you that not everyone has their priorities out of whack just because they like football.

[Teleku]

The question was completely rhetorical and you know it.  Kill the stadium and give the $60 million to other schools that aren't producing students who attend college at a 100% rate, since this one is obviously rich enough to handle its students.  Football and most sports in this this country are a massive waste of time and money that is literally going to kill us in global competitiveness.  They can have their $60 million dollar stadium when the entire team graduates to become engineers, and every school in Texas is pumping out 4.0 students at a 100% rate.  Until that time, its a sad waste of money.  You can play football successfully in a mud pit.  Great education actually requires money and effort.  This city most certainly has all of its priorities out of whack.

[Fordel]

Well yes, It's Texas. I thought we went over this already! 

[Sjofn]

The question was completely rhetorical and you know it.  Kill the stadium and give the $60 million to other schools that aren't producing students who attend college at a 100% rate, since this one is obviously rich enough to handle its students.  Football and most sports in this this country are a massive waste of time and money that is literally going to kill us in global competitiveness.  They can have their $60 million dollar stadium when the entire team graduates to become engineers, and every school in Texas is pumping out 4.0 students at a 100% rate.  Until that time, its a sad waste of money.  You can play football successfully in a mud pit.  Great education actually requires money and effort.  This city most certainly has all of its priorities out of whack.

Ahh, but how much extra money do they get from their insane football people? I know at my school (which was in NJ, and had non-insane football priorities) (which is to say, WE WERE TERRIBLE AT FOOTBALL), we were still glad for all the attention they'd manage to get, because as the marching band (you know, fine arts people), we would NOT EXIST AT ALL if it weren't for them. And we wanted them to have a decent field and stadium, because. Well. We marched in it, you know?


PS: Marching band is fun as hell (and good exercise) and totally different from regular ol' concert band (which is fun for entirely different reasons). I know a lot of people that only kept playing because they wanted to be in MARCHING band once they got to high school (our marching band was pretty good, see).

[01101010]

Thought Texas hated education? 

[Paelos]

The question was completely rhetorical and you know it.  Kill the stadium and give the $60 million to other schools that aren't producing students who attend college at a 100% rate, since this one is obviously rich enough to handle its students.  Football and most sports in this this country are a massive waste of time and money that is literally going to kill us in global competitiveness.  They can have their $60 million dollar stadium when the entire team graduates to become engineers, and every school in Texas is pumping out 4.0 students at a 100% rate.  Until that time, its a sad waste of money.  You can play football successfully in a mud pit.  Great education actually requires money and effort.  This city most certainly has all of its priorities out of whack.

I see, you've decided to go the other route. I have a problem with you already making up your mind, asking a snarky question, being shown that it's not the case, and then continuing on with whatever opinion you want EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT THE CASE IN THIS SITUATION. Nobody learns anything that way.

[Teleku]

I god damn knew they'd have a decent marching band if they're throwing money at a stadium like that.  It was a snarky question, and I'll admit I messed up in writing it, as I meant to imply Texas as a whole, not just that school.  So apology's for that, but nothing has changed, and you didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

My position has always been that since this country cant seem to get its shit together, inter school sports should either be banned, or have a requirement placed on them that you need something like at least a 3.8 GPA while taking a full array of AP courses in order to play.  If you don't have that, obviously you have other things you desperately need to be spending your time on.  Schools should by law be prohibited from spending money like that (donated or otherwise) on sports.  The glorification of sports over academic achievement in this country needs to end.

If they're desperate for it, the city can build its own stadium somewhere in the city that's not on school grounds, organize its own private team, and pay for the management and maintenance of it out of city funds.  Then challenge other cities who have done the same.  Just don't link it with the school at all.

And yes, I know this is all extreme and has no chance of happening in this country, but I think its probably the only way left to fix things at this point.

[Paelos]

 

[Teleku]

 

[Paelos]

You do realize that banning it wouldn't magically move money to schools right?

[01101010]

Of course not, but it does show where are American priorities are in terms of what we truly value. Fuck school and learning... we need more gladiator arenas. 

[cmlancas]

Of course not, but it does show where are American priorities are in terms of what we truly value. Fuck school and learning... we need more gladiator arenas. 

I don't think "fuck school and learning" is correct...whether it's Sputnik, NCLB, or that publication that came out in the 80s (forgive me, I forget the name and Google-fu--), education has had gobs of money thrown at it from time to time.

What I think it boils down to is boosters supporting something they enjoy.  The baseball complex I played at in high school had an air conditioned clubhouse full with washer and dryer. 

All because one dad wanted it for his kid.

[ghost]

Interesting.  Apparently Hope Solo was conceived during a conjugal visit while her father was in prison.   

[ghost]

Yay!  The US finally beat Mexico in Mexico City. 

The U.S. had been 0-23-1 against El Tri in 75 years of games at Mexico, including 0-19-1 in the thin air at altitude in Mexico City -- where they have been outscored 81-14.

[ghost]

Wow.  Former Georgia coach Jim Donnan charged in $80 million Ponzi Scheme. 

[Paelos]