Time Manipulation.. awesome science inside.

[Merusk]

I had only heard a little bit about invisibility cloaks a long while ago, it seems.  From my understanding it comes down to using lenses to distort light around an object and then refocus it behind the object so that  you don't see what's in the middle.  Apparently you can also use this to make one object look exactly like another.  Pretty awesome, eh?

Well, some genius has figured out that because light and time have some sort of electromagnetic similarity you can do the same with time.
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26992/

Article says they can only create 'holes' in time for up to 120nano seconds right now.  BUT.. they expect to be able to expand that as the tech is explored.  Fucking incredible.

[01101010]

I had only heard a little bit about invisibility cloaks a long while ago, it seems.  From my understanding it comes down to using lenses to distort light around an object and then refocus it behind the object so that  you don't see what's in the middle.  Apparently you can also use this to make one object look exactly like another.  Pretty awesome, eh?

Well, some genius has figured out that because light and time have some sort of electromagnetic similarity you can do the same with time.
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26992/

Article says they can only create 'holes' in time for up to 120nano seconds right now.  BUT.. they expect to be able to expand that as the tech is explored.  Fucking incredible.

Yeah, but it's still not sonic.

[Furiously]

The comments...they read like time cube.

[Typhon]

The object in the 'cloak' isn't stopping for 120ns, it's just the light shining on (well, off) the object that is being time-shifted due to the lens.  Because of the shift it's like they edited out a 120ns part of the light incident/reflected off of the object

[Ingmar]

inc Hounds of Tindalos

[01101010]

The object in the 'cloak' isn't stopping for 120ns, it's just the light shining on (well, off) the object that is being time-shifted due to the lens.  Because of the shift it's like they edited out a 120ns part of the light incident/reflected off of the object

So in essence they are lagging the server?

[SurfD]

The object in the 'cloak' isn't stopping for 120ns, it's just the light shining on (well, off) the object that is being time-shifted due to the lens.  Because of the shift it's like they edited out a 120ns part of the light incident/reflected off of the object

So in essence they are lagging the server?

Wonderful, give them 10 years to mess with the technology, and people IRL will be griefing us with Visual Rubber Band Lag.

[Yegolev]

Another blow to conservation of information.

[sinij]

I do not comprehend, how can you manipulate time?

[Lakov_Sanite]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

[pxib]

I do not comprehend, how can you manipulate time?

You don't. You manipulate light.

Like the blog post says, the dispersion of light through space and the dispersion of light over time are indistinguishable at the quantum level. That's the practical application of the Uncertainty Principle and General Relativity. The fabric of the universe is "space-time", and it's just a matter of perspective whether you're bending one or the other. The original "invisibility cloak" made the light take slightly longer to arrive at the opposite side of its hidden compartment than if it had simply passed straight through.

It was also a "time cloak", so to speak. These new lenses just focus (lawl) more on delaying the light than producing an undistorted image at the other end.

[Murgos]

I do not comprehend, how can you manipulate time?

You don't. You manipulate light.

You do.  That's what the theory of relativity says.

Energy and mass and gravity and time are all related.

[Yegolev]

Personally I think this could lead to even more discussions over whether quantum theory is or is not bullshit.

[SnakeCharmer]

What?

[Prospero]

Seriously what? Green text I hope.

[pxib]

You do [bend time].  That's what the theory of relativity says.

Not exactly. The theory of relativity says that there's no universal time or space to bend; they're entirely subjective.

You're trying to turn this into some sort of Schrödinger's Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal. If it's valid to say that a time lens bends time, then it's equally valid to state that a pair of spectacles bends space. Just like you can hide a penny under a glass of water via diffraction, you can hide a few nanoseconds from observation using the dispersion effect of an electro-optic modulator. Any event which occurs during that fraction of a second, just like the penny, is still right wherever and whenever you left it.

[Yegolev]

Some people, outliers as far as I know, think quantum theory is dumb because it involves a different set of rules than the macro universe.  Personally I think we can get a lot of info from this tech either way.  Also, I am not a theoretical physicist, so straighten up your pocket protectors.

[Kail]

Some people, outliers as far as I know, think quantum theory is dumb because it involves a different set of rules than the macro universe.  Personally I think we can get a lot of info from this tech either way.  Also, I am not a theoretical physicist, so straighten up your pocket protectors.

Honestly, I've always been more comfortable with quantum theory (what little of it I've been exposed to) than the weirder aspects of relativity.  The whole time=space thing, the idea that sequential events are not objectively sequential, it all seems way weirder than quantum physics, where I can just do the math and say that it works without having to imagine it working on something I can see or touch.

[Murgos]

If it's valid to say that a time lens bends time, then it's equally valid to state that a pair of spectacles bends space.

Yes.  that's right.  Mass doesn't get a pass at not interacting with the universe because it's shaped like a pair of spectacles.  If the sun bends space (a measurable effect shown experimentally) then so do spectacles.  Just a very small amount.

Mass IS energy.  Mass bends space.  Energy bends space.  Bent space is distorted time.  Mass and energy distort time.

As far as quantum theory goes, there have been many experimental results since the 50's that confirm predictions made with the theory.  It's about as controversial as gravity.

[SnakeCharmer]

Are you talking about the Mass Effect?  That was done by the Protheans, dude.

[Ghambit]

If it's valid to say that a time lens bends time, then it's equally valid to state that a pair of spectacles bends space.

Yes.  that's right.  Mass doesn't get a pass at not interacting with the universe because it's shaped like a pair of spectacles.  If the sun bends space (a measurable effect shown experimentally) then so do spectacles.  Just a very small amount.

Mass IS energy.  Mass bends space.  Energy bends space.  Bent space is distorted time.  Mass and energy distort time.

As far as quantum theory goes, there have been many experimental results since the 50's that confirm predictions made with the theory.  It's about as controversial as gravity.

Mass and energy distort your relative conscious perception of time, not time itself... which still has yet to be proven even to exist.  Hay, ever wonder what happened to "time" beyond the CMB?
It's equally likely all that ever was, is, and will be exists simultaneously in this giant computational multiiverse...  therefore time is perhaps but a function of "making sense of it all" through whatever level of sentience you may have.

Theoretically, you'd have just an easy a time manipulating "space-time" by altering the way your consciousness interacts with the universe (assuming the conscious mind is a quantum computer).

[Samwise]

Mass and energy distort your relative conscious perception of time, not time itself... which still has yet to be proven even to exist.

[pxib]

Relativity specifically says there's no such thing as "time itself". Time is just an aspect of velocity, which is itself just a part of momentum. Light's velocity is a fixed constant while the distance it travels and the time it requires to travel vary from observer to observer. Every particle is an observer, and every one behaves as if it has no velocity or momentum. Each remains eternally still while every force interaction it observes sends the whole universe whizzing off in new directions.

So a lens can alter an observers' perception of time, but it doesn't alter time. There is no spoon.

[Ghambit]

Mass and energy distort your relative conscious perception of time, not time itself... which still has yet to be proven even to exist.

Well, I'll make my retort "simple."  Assume for a second that the holographic universe theory is true.  Or even that the universe exists due to one single electron.   Still think time actually exists?  Further, if there are "many worlds," how is time even truly a function of their existence save to bring understanding?

Brane theory?  Space-Time (as we perceive it) literally is frozen in the synapses between universes, yet they still may collide and interact gravitationally.

Above all this, it may take 3 quadrillion "years" for 2 branes to collide, but I could translate my consciousness to perceive that as one Earth "second" and another Big Bang could occur right after this post.  Take it further and reside your consciousness in between these universes and all of a sudden Time has no meaning whatsoever except to yourself likely (assuming the physics in such a space would even allow it, which is not likely)... a million years in 1 verse is 1 milicycle in another.  

Relativity specifically says there's no such thing as "time itself". Time is just an aspect of velocity, which is itself just a part of momentum. Light's velocity is a fixed constant while the distance it travels and the time it requires to travel vary from observer to observer. Every particle is an observer, and every one behaves as if it has no velocity or momentum. Each remains eternally still while every force interaction it observes sends the whole universe whizzing off in new directions.

So a lens can alter an observers' perception of time, but it doesn't alter time. There is no spoon.

There's some science that is now looking at lightspeed as it relates to spatial "densities" instead of space-time.  For instance, if our universe is a bubble within another larger bubble, light would travel the larger bubble the same relative speed as it does in ours, but that light-information actually travels relatively FASTER in our bubble as it travels across the larger one.  In this way, lightspeed is broken.  I believe this was a thought on how "spooky action at a distance" actually occurs.  Qbits and such are balled up in higher dimensional spaces wherein they dont actually violate the speed of light since the spatial densities are way way less.  As such, gravity also means way way less since there's not enough to interact with.

[pxib]

IF, however, you just wanted a simple expanation for how this time-lens deletes short-duration events: Imagine a magnifying glass. When you look through the glass you see part of the world increased in size, but there is an area surrounding that magnified spot which is occluded by the glass and thus completely invisible to you. Light reflecting off of it is diffracted away from your eyes.

In much the same way, a time lens allows the light from short-duration events to diffuse on its way through an electric field. Nothing on the far side of the field will see them. Longer duration events are slightly distorted (I imagine they're dimmer, for example).

[Samwise]

Assume for a second that the holographic universe theory is true.

Heh, I was actually going to ask if you'd read "The Holographic Universe" or whatever that book was (IIRC it's got a quote on the cover like "finally, a single bold theory that unifies quantum mechanics with astrology!").  I thought what you were saying sounded familiar.

[Sheepherder]

The best part about time and relativity is the properties of the apparent flow of time as it pertains to gravitational singularities.

[Teleku]

I need to go shave my neck again after reading this thread.

[Typhon]

What the hell?!  Y'all need to stop raping physics!

Did anyone read the article?!  This has nothing to do with quantum mechanics or relativity.  It's just EM.  They are using an electro-optic modulator... ... they are using this thingee that causes light to slow down when they apply a voltage, they use the inverse of that on the other side of the object.  At the point in time that they want to "destroy time" they turn the lenses on.  The light train gets crunched and expanded and BECAUSE THERE IS A LAG IN THE LIGHT WHEN THE FORWARD LENS IS FIRST TURNED ON, time disappears - EXCEPT IT'S NOT TIME, IT'S THE FRONT PART OF THE LIGHT TRAIN and it doesn't disappear, it just takes a couple nanoseconds for it to work it's way through the forward thingee, but because they reverse the process (ok, this part is interesting, I don't know how they do that) on the other side you don't notice the gap.

Time in no way is manipulated, hurt, offended or effected in any of this.  It's a trick that is possible because there are materials who's index of refraction can be changed via an applied voltage.

[Sheepherder]

We know, we just like to inflict mind wounds on Samwise.

[01101010]

What the hell?!  Y'all need to stop raping physics!

Did anyone read the article?!  This has nothing to do with quantum mechanics or relativity.  It's just EM.  They are using an electro-optic modulator... ... they are using this thingee that causes light to slow down when they apply a voltage, they use the inverse of that on the other side of the object.  At the point in time that they want to "destroy time" they turn the lenses on.  The light train gets crunched and expanded and BECAUSE THERE IS A LAG IN THE LIGHT WHEN THE FORWARD LENS IS FIRST TURNED ON, time disappears - EXCEPT IT'S NOT TIME, IT'S THE FRONT PART OF THE LIGHT TRAIN and it doesn't disappear, it just takes a couple nanoseconds for it to work it's way through the forward thingee, but because they reverse the process (ok, this part is interesting, I don't know how they do that) on the other side you don't notice the gap.

Time in no way is manipulated, hurt, offended or effected in any of this.  It's a trick that is possible because there are materials who's index of refraction can be changed via an applied voltage.

Fuck you... I want a TARDIS god damn you.

[Ghambit]

The best part about time and relativity is the properties of the apparent flow of time as it pertains to gravitational singularities.

You only perceive time as stopping (from an outside observation) because the light at the event horizon is frozen.
Supposedly though, you can ride a "closed time loop" if you can magically fly around the singularity in stable fashion.   
And unicorns are real in someone's universe somewhere, somehow, sometime.

Personally, this closed time loop crap seems fishy to me.  I prefer to think of them as gateways to alternate continuums.  You ride one (or sit inside the vortex perhaps) and pop out on an alternate 'verse from the one you started at an apparent different point in time.  To further blow your mind though, assume they did exist and we could build one...  this means you could put one on a ship, set the ship in motion, hit the timeloop, and effectively travel instantaneously to any point in the universe.  Millions of lightyears would pass in a blink of your eye, then you could wind back the time when you reached your destination.  There would be no need for wormholes even.

[Sir T]

Excuse me, I'm going to have eaten some popcon tomorrow.

[Furiously]

So, since light travels fastest in a vacuum, and slower in a denser medium, and with it being a universal constant... so that really it's time that moves faster or slower in a vacuum or in a swimming pool... If I lived on the bottom of the ocean I could live forever?

[Merusk]

It would explain why regular swimmers live longer