Bombing in Oslo

[Furiously]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_NORWAY_EXPLOSION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Initial reports indicate several car bombs.

[Xuri]

First terrorist-attack on Norwegian soil. Large bomb (or several bombs) went off near government buildings hosting various ministries (also the location for the prime minister's office), extensive damage to several buildings, windows blown out in a very large radius surrounding the blast, so far confirmation of 15+ injured and at least 2 dead. People are being evacuated from all major hotspots for traffic, and are told to stay in their homes etc.

Some links to news about this in English:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14252515
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/22/blast-rips-through-norways-capital-injuries-reported/?hpt=hp_t1

[Xuri]

Also, in a potential related and still ongoing event (the timing is at least suspicious) - one or more people dressed as a police officers have been firing shots at a convention for the youth-wing of Norway's largest political party (the Labour Party). Around 560 people on the island where they had their convention, and unconfirmed reports of people fleeing the island in boats and/or by swimming.

Edit: 4 people confirmed dead in this incident, according to some reports.

[Merusk]

I heard about this and couldn't concieve of why anyone would bomb Norway, of all places.   I haven't seen any speculation as to who it could be, either.  Attacking the left-wing party like that makes me think hard-right crazies, but does Norway have a large contingent of them?

ed: Derp, I forgot about the Mohammed cartoons.  Something made me think that was the Netherlands, not Sweden.

Cruickshank said that in recent months, there had been increased "chatter" about Norway, which had been investigating militants suspected of being linked to al Qaeda.

Norway also drew the ire of al Qaeda for publishing the controversial political cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed that appeared in a Danish newspaper and sparked outrage in the militant Islamic community.

[Khaldun]

I think it's probably ostensibly about the cartoons, but it's also probably about unprotected targets that score a big publicity haul for terrorist factions--Norway counts as "Western" in terms of bragging rights with their supporters.

[Teleku]

Anybody have more news on the shooting?  It sounds pretty bad actually.  Lots of people injured, but can't find specifics.  With the gun attack happening right after the bomb attack, its possible this was domestic political terrorism, rather AQ or the like (though they are still certainly suspect).

Thankfully, it sounds like all my friends in Norway/Oslo were unaffected by this.  Hope the same is true for all of the Norwegian members here.

[Xuri]

The shooter seems to have been arrested. Several people are injured and/or dead - numbers not yet confirmed, though.

Edit: Number of confirmed deaths at bomb site up to 7, plus an additional two critically injured, according to the Oslo police.

[luckton]

The cartoons, plus their NATO involvement with Libya, compounded by this:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/07/2011722135232705239.html

The attack comes days after Norwegian prosecutors filed a terrorism charge against Mullah Krekar, founder of the Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam, who is accused of threatening a former minister, Erna Solberg, with death.

"Norway will pay a heavy price for my death," he said. "If, for example, Erna Solberg deports me and I die as a result, she will suffer the same fate."

It is not clear whether Friday's attack is related to the threat.

[Xuri]

The shooter was as mentioned dressed as a police officer... which gives the real police officers a challenge when it comes to convincing people who were present on the island during the shooting that it's now safe to come forward/out of hiding etc.

[apocrypha]

I love how everyone instantly jumps on the idea that it's Islamists.

Want to know which group is responsible for the least terrorist incidents in Europe in recent years? Islamists. Most common are national/regional seperatist groups:
http://www.dangardner.ca/index.php/articles/item/90-remember-that-eurabian-civil-war

The European Union's Terrorism Situation and Trend Report 2010 states that in 2009 there were "294 failed, foiled, or successfully executed attacks" in six European countries. This was down almost one-third from the total in 2008 and down by almost one-half from the total in 2007.

So in most of Europe, there was no terrorism. And where there was terrorism, the trend line pointed down.

As for who's responsible, forget Islamists. The overwhelming majority of the attacks- 237 of 294 - were carried out by separatist groups, such as the Basque ETA. A further 40 terrorists schemes were pinned on leftist and/or anarchist terrorists. Rightists were responsible for four attacks. Single-issue groups were behind two attacks, while responsibility for a further 10 was not clear.

Islamists? They were behind a grand total of one attack. Yes, one. Out of 294 attacks. In a population of half a billion people. To put that in perspective, the same number of attacks was committed by the Comité d'Action Viticole, a French group that wants to stop the importation of foreign wine.

It's not impossible that it's Islamists here, but jumping to that as your first suspicion shows how effective the waves of Islamophobic scaremongering has been.

[luckton]

If it turns out that the Crab People living under the Earth's crust for thousands of years were behind this, I'll say you were right.  Haven't really heard much in the way of domestic terror or any other 'big time' terror groups lately, certainly not in Oslo of all places.

[Ruvaldt]

Most common are national/regional seperatist groups:

Are there many separatist groups in Norway?  I know about the Sami people who mostly reside around Finnmark, but I'm not aware of any salient separatist movement from them.

[Xuri]

Update on number of unconfirmed deaths amongst the youths at the political convention: 20-30 9-10

[Teleku]

I love how everyone instantly jumps on the idea that it's Islamists.

Because almost none of those separatist groups ever perform massive bomb attacks that kill a bunch of people (at least in the last decade or two).  Blowing up crowded subway cars?  Skyscrapers?  The Prime Ministers office?  All Islamic.

When your country is on AQ's official "its OK to blow them up" shit list, has no major separatists groups, and no history of domestic terrorism, I think its only logical and fair to assume, given no other info, that the attack was likely Islamic.  Until other information is presented, there is nothing Islamophobic about it.  Its cool and logical.  The shooting at the island, however, seems to suggest it could in fact be domestic.  But before that was known, the most likely guess was AQ or something like that.

Update on number of unconfirmed deaths amongst the youths at the political convention: 20-30

Fuck, that's horrible.  To make it even more creepy (for me), a good friend of mine in Norway was actually in charge of running that camp last year I've found out.

[01101010]

I love how everyone instantly jumps on the idea that it's Islamists.

Because almost none of those separatist groups ever perform massive bomb attacks that kill a bunch of people (at least in the last decade or two).  Blowing up crowded subway cars?  Skyscrapers?  The Prime Ministers office?  All Islamic.

When your country is on AQ's official "its OK to blow them up" shit list, has no major separatists groups, and no history of domestic terrorism, I think its only logical and fair to assume, given no other info, that the attack was likely Islamic.  Until other information is presented, there is nothing Islamophobic about it.  Its cool and logical.  The shooting at the island, however, seems to suggest it could in fact be domestic.  But before that was known, the most likely guess was AQ or something like that.

Update on number of unconfirmed deaths amongst the youths at the political convention: 20-30

Fuck, that's horrible.  To make it even more creepy (for me), a good friend of mine in Norway was actually in charge of running that camp last year I've found out.

Tim McVeigh was Islamic? 

[Merusk]

Hey, I did mention domestic at first.  Islamaphobia was introduced by the liberal press' speculations. I expect them to mention possible militias/ separatist groups who've made threats. 

[Teleku]

Tim McVeigh was Islamic?  

I was talking about Europe specifically.

With how fucking crazy politics and fringe factions have gotten over here lately, its a god damn coin toss on guessing if a terrorist attack is foreign or domestic here at this point.

[Xuri]

Seems like it could've been the same person doing the bombing as the shooting, as apparently someone fitting his description had been observed at the site of the bombing minutes before it happened. The number of dead from the shooting thankfully seems lower than the earlier unconfirmed reports - so 9-10 instead of 20-30 - but any amount over NONE is still bad, and this puts the total confirmed deaths today up to 16 or 17.

[apop]

Living in Oslo, it is absurd seeing areas of downtown looking like a warzone. Norway has been mentioned by Al-Qaida several times as a viable target, The reasoning being the publishing of cartoons of muhammad, troops in Afghanistan and Libya.

That said, unconfirmed eye-witness reports say the arrested shooter was tall and had "scandinavian" looks. The police has only confirmed that the man has norwegian nationality.

[apop]

The police has just said they found several undetonated explosive devices at the youth camp. And the number of deaths at the youth camp is expected to rise as the search continue. They have also confirmed that the suspect is a man of norwegian decent.

[Korachia]

I have read that the fake policeman on the island was blond, tall, young and Norwegian looking. If its terrorism (why not call it bombing and/or massmurder until we know more) it seems to have been carried out by an ethic Norwegian. Taking the targets into consideration this lends credibility to the theory about an homegrown domestic right wing attack. But lets see...

Scary stuff through. Hope every Norwegian on the board is A-okay.

edit: uhh I am soo slow at typing..

[Xuri]

I fail to see how this would not be considered terrorism even if he's "blond, tall, young and Norwegian looking". From having seen his Facebook profile I can also tell you that he claims to be a Christian, has a business education, "conservative political view", likes hunting and e-sports, watches True Blood and Stargate Universe, plays World of Warcraft, Modern Warfare 2 - and from his musical taste - Age of Conan. :(

He is still a terrorist.

[Tale]

He tweeted something too: http://twitter.com/AndersBBreivik

[Paelos]

McVeigh was white, domestic, and a veteran. White people can still be terrorists. It's happened.

[Ingmar]

He needs an agenda to be a terrorist, that's all. We don't know if/what his was yet. Also I'm not sure we know 100% for sure the incidents are connected, yet.

[Xuri]

Oh good. Norwegian newspapers are now starting to focus on the fact that he played World of Warcraft. 

[Paelos]

Oh good. Norwegian newspapers are now starting to focus on the fact that he played World of Warcraft. 

EA will stop at nothing it seems.

[Trippy]

Oh good. Norwegian newspapers are now starting to focus on the fact that he played World of Warcraft. 

Stupid media they should be focusing on Modern Warfare 2 instead

[Teleku]

How do you guys know this is the suspect?  I haven't seen the suspects name listed in any official news articles.

[Trippy]

Local media sources have named the arrested suspect.

E.g.:

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10080610

http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/anders-32-i-oslo-ble-paagrepet-etter-bombe-og-massedrap-3544629.html

[Teleku]

Yeah, now I'm starting to see it trickle in.

[Strazos]

Really sad. I've liked the few Norwegians I've had a chance to work with. 

[Ginaz]

McVeigh was white, domestic, and a veteran. White people can still be terrorists. It's happened.

So in the last 20-25 years theres been two major terror attacks carried out by non-Muslims compared to the hundreds or even thousands committed by Muslims.  Tim McVeigh...and now this dude.  I don't exactly see this as terror attacks trending towards the white, Christian demographic.  I do, however, see this thread trending towards to the politics forum.

[Korachia]

Uhh.. So I found this picture that could very well show the perpitrator on the island in his murderous act surrounded by his victims. While its hard to count, it seems from this picture that there potentially could be alot more dead victims. I am not sure its a good idea to post it, but since it took me less then 5 mins to accidently stumble upon it, I will just post it in the spoiler as a link. Please remove it if its to much.

This is definitly NOT SAFE FOR WORK or the faint hearted:


As for him being a terrorist or not, my main point was that its too early to be absolutely sure what he is and is'nt. So lets wait with the labelling until we know more.

As for the label "terrorism" and "terrorist" itself, its interesting just how easy we and the media throw it around for all kinds of different criminal activities, which might be quite different in a number of ways. Hell there is'nt even a consensus on what the two labels contain, besides a weak notion that the perpitrator(s) must have an religious, political or ideological motive, disregard civilians/bystanders, and have the intention to cause fear/terror. If we applied this weak and broad notion on this case, the only criteria the Norwegian perpitrator currently fulfills for sure is the disregarding civilians part, according to the information at hand.

[lamaros]

So in the last 20-25 years theres been two major terror attacks carried out by non-Muslims compared to the hundreds or even thousands committed by Muslims.  Tim McVeigh...and now this dude.  I don't exactly see this as terror attacks trending towards the white, Christian demographic.  I do, however, see this thread trending towards to the politics forum.

Two? What the fuck are you smoking?