City of Heroes and Rift

[luckton]

TL;DR - Is Rift your MMO-crutch until SWTOR just like CoH was to WoW?

=====================================================

It's the Spring of 2004.  City of Heroes comes out swinging and grabs your attention full force with a style of gameplay and design that had yet to be seen in the MMO-sphere.  You rolled new heroes like nobody's business, yelled at the masses trying to get a 'successful' Positron Task Force group going, and generally had a good time. 

...and then the Fall of 2004 rolled in; World of Warcraft came out.  All of sudden you couldn't remember what the letters CoH stood for.

Fast forward to Spring of 2011.  Rift comes out swinging and grabs your attention full force that, while similar to WoW, does offer enough graphical and gameplay mechanic changes and innovations that allows it to stand on it's own.  The dynamic content is refreshing, almost 100% of the things one would consider a 'standard' in a MMO post-WoW are there or were soon implemented within months of release, and everyone's having a good time.

...and then the Fall of 2011 will come; SW:ToR comes out.  Will Rift be just a memory then?

[Soulflame]

I have absolutely no interest in SWTOR at this time.  I could have said the same about Rift a while back, so that could change.  Even so.

I would answer with an unequivocal "No."

[Lantyssa]

No.

I play games because I'm interested in them, not because I'm waiting for something else.  If you're biding your time, you need to find a new hobby.

[Hutch]

TL;DR - Is Rift your MMO-crutch until SWTOR just like CoH was to WoW?

=====================================================

It's the Spring of 2004.  City of Heroes comes out swinging and grabs your attention full force with a style of gameplay and design that had yet to be seen in the MMO-sphere.  You rolled new heroes like nobody's business, yelled at the masses trying to get a 'successful' Positron Task Force group going, and generally had a good time. 

...and then the Fall of 2004 rolled in; World of Warcraft came out.  All of sudden you couldn't remember what the letters CoH stood for.

Fast forward to Spring of 2011.  Rift comes out swinging and grabs your attention full force that, while similar to WoW, does offer enough graphical and gameplay mechanic changes and innovations that allows it to stand on it's own.  The dynamic content is refreshing, almost 100% of the things one would consider a 'standard' in a MMO post-WoW are there or were soon implemented within months of release, and everyone's having a good time.

...and then the Fall of 2011 will come; SW:ToR comes out.  Will Rift be just a memory then?

And then it was Summer of 2005. I had burned out on WoW by the time my main was level 55, but I stuck around long enough to get him to 60, so that I could finally say to myself that I'd reached the level cap in one of these games.

And then I went back to CoH. Among other things.

WoW didn't sink its hooks into me for good until BC was published.


Rift might be a memory before SWTOR goes retail. I find the soul system to be very interesting, and I like the frequency with which features/events get patched into the game. But I'm not hooked. Maybe I'm spoiled by the games that have come before Rift, with their abundant fast travel options, and lower mob aggro/density.

[Numtini]

I really love Rift. I expect to gear up and find a raid spot and spend a very long time playing it and its expansions. But that's no surprise, Hartsman-era EQ2 is my favorite game of all time and the one I had the longest relationship with.

Guild Wars 2 is very interesting and I expect to play it, but I'm not sure if that will be a vocation or a hobby. I suspect it may fit in where GW and World of Tanks do for me--free to play and put in a few sessions a month when I feel like it.

I think I put in an app and if I get into SWTOR's beta I'll download and play it. But I have no real interest in it and no plans to buy. The IP isn't all that interesting to me--the original Star Wars (and that's the name of the film: Star Wars) was and is one of the best adventure movies of all time, but the world is juvenile, illogical, and not compelling and the direction the game is going in is more of the solo game with other people which is the opposite side of MMOs from what interests me.

[Draegan]

Rift will be my main PVE diku derivative for a while now.  Reasons are obvious.

I will play SWTOR for sure to try it out but from what I see, it doesn't have that "hardcore" PVE element to it. 

I will also be playing GW2 forever since it has no monthly sub.

[luckton]

No.

I play games because I'm interested in them, not because I'm waiting for something else.  If you're biding your time, you need to find a new hobby.

Oh don't get me wrong...I do enjoy the games I play.  But they're just that; games.  I don't hold a permanent attachment to them, although my wife would disagree considering the 6 year stint I did with WoW.

And I did come back to CoH once in a while...taking a small break here and there from WoW, along with trying out a post-MMO or two during the time.

I guess what I mean by the topic is not so much one's attachment to game is, but how a young, innovative MMO came out near the start of the year, only to get buried by a blockbuster 9 months out, and how that process seems to be setting up to repeat again this year.

[Shatter]

Just FYI, your nuts if you think SWTOR will be out this fall.  Try 2012.  As for Rift, its just a stepping stone until SWTOR or GW2 come out both of which are more likely 2012 launches, not this year which sucks cause thats 7 more months :(

[Nebu]

TL;DR - Is Rift your MMO-crutch until SWTOR just like CoH was to WoW?

I played CoH longer than I did WoW.  I guess that my answer would be "no".

[Zetor]

COH is not really the best example for this imo -- it is one of the more innovative games out there right now, no matter how old/dated it might look. How many other MMOs do you know where you can do [endgame] group content without tanks or healers? How many games do you know where players can create content for the game and have other players play through it? Heck, how many games (other than AO :p) have fully scalable content with custom difficulty levels and allowing for lowbies/highbies to group together without issues? How about not fighting for loot... heck, not worrying about loot in the first place? And then there's the avatar customizability.

COH is definitely more interesting than wow, or rift for that matter. As for me, my rift sub is active until july, but I don't think I'll be renewing -- I'll prob join the SWTOR madness for ~3 months, then jump ship to GW2 whenever it comes out. GW2 is the only game I'm looking forward to atm..

[luckton]

Just FYI, your nuts if you think SWTOR will be out this fall.  Try 2012. 

EA Corporate agenda > BW's development cycle, esp. since they'll do the typical "we can fix the minor shit in post-launch patches."

TOR will be this year...it may be Dec. 31st, 2011, but by God it'll be this year. 

[ezrast]

I haven't been following either Old Republic or Guild Wars 2 very closely, but there are a lot of reasons why Guild Wars 2 interests me and I will look into picking it up at launch - in which case Rift would definitely go out the window. "Story-heavy Star Wars MMO," on the other hand, is pretty much the least appealing game pitch imaginable to me and I'm still wondering why you people are excited about it (not enough to go back and try to decipher the signal from a 100-page thread though).

Echo everything Nebu and Zetor said about the initial premise being flawed, though. CoH and Rift are my current MMO subs. Rift is a marginal evolutionary step inside the DIKU box. CoH is something altogether different. Only one is easily replaceable.

[Jherad]

SWTOR holds no interest for me whatsoever. GW2 does to an extent, but that scratches a different itch than Rift.

I'm not sure how long I'll continue playing Rift for, but unless I've seriously underestimated the Old Republic, it'll take a better/different game to pull me away.

[Rasix]

I would say no here, and I'm really looking forward to SWTOR and tentatively looking forward to GW2 (I really didn't like GW1).  

However, I don't sub to multiple MMOs at once.  So if I do try another MMO with a sub fee, I'll cancel the sub of the game I'm switching from if I'm playing one at all.

I don't do "MMO crutch".  I don't have to be playing one at all times.  I'll play them as long as they still hold my interest and then I'll play something else.  Often a lengthy single player game (like DA2) will take me away from a MMO long enough for me to cancel my sub until I'm done.

I tend to get distracted by the shiny, so any game can pull me away from a MMO.  With single player games, I'll often try to finish before moving onto something else, because they actually end.

[Cadaverine]

I only stuck with Rift past the free 30 days because they gave me another 30 days due to the hacking issue.  It's a nice game, but after however many years of WoW, it just seemed like more of the same.  I'll most likely be picking up SWTOR, though I'm not expecting it to last all that long, either. 

At the moment, I'm having  way more fun playing around with Terraria than I've had in any MMO in recent memory.  That, and a backlog of games I've picked up from Steam sales will keep me busy way past SWTOR's release.

[Falconeer]

I have a feeling SWTOR is gonna tank. That said, I have no interest since it's about the "new" Star Wars universe as opposed to the old scholl stuff I loved, and the game, from what I've seen, is not interestng to me.

If anything I am looking forward to Guild Wars 2 and The Secret World, but Rift is holding up on its legs so far especially thanks to PvP action (not PvP metagame, which is sadly non-existant). What will eventually drive me away is a lack of open world and "meaningful" PvP outside of arenas, but that doesn't have anything to do with new games coming since none of them seem to have the knd of PvP I like anyway.

[Nebu]

I have a feeling SWTOR is gonna tank.

I know that I'm going to be labeled a "jaded MMO hater", but I tend to agree with you.  Kotor was a wonderful single player game.  It had a story that players followed from beginning to the conclusion.  MMO's can't survive on story driven content, particularly those with a monthly subscription.  You need to allow players to create their own story if you're going to maintain interest.  Success will come from providing a lot of content for players to pick and choose from and allow them to choose the portions that they wish to focus on given their own playstyle preferences.  Story really forces players down paths that many would choose to otherwise avoid.  Seems a way to alienate part of your playerbase.  The completionists will also be a problem as they will naturally race to the end and then bitch about there being nothing to do. 

I guess I just don't see how story-driven content can appeal to the broad audience or playstyles that MMOs attract. 

[luckton]

I have a feeling SWTOR is gonna tank.

I know that I'm going to be labeled a "jaded MMO hater", but I tend to agree with you.  Kotor was a wonderful single player game.  It had a story that players followed from beginning to the conclusion.  MMO's can't survive on story driven content, particularly those with a monthly subscription.  You need to allow players to create their own story if you're going to maintain interest.  Success will come from providing a lot of content for players to pick and choose from and allow them to choose the portions that they wish to focus on given their own playstyle preferences.  Story really forces players down paths that many would choose to otherwise avoid.  Seems a way to alienate part of your playerbase.  The completionists will also be a problem as they will naturally race to the end and then bitch about there being nothing to do. 

I guess I just don't see how story-driven content can appeal to the broad audience or playstyles that MMOs attract. 

Just because they're going all out on the story-driven thing doesn't mean you can't improv later on down the line.  Hell, with Cataclysm, WoW's gone a hell of a lot more story driven that it ever has, and 11 million people still hit it. 

[Nebu]

Just because they're going all out on the story-driven thing doesn't mean you can't improv later on down the line.  Hell, with Cataclysm, WoW's gone a hell of a lot more story driven that it ever has, and 11 million people still hit it. 

You sure about that 11 million number?  My impression was that subs, particularly in North America, were down with the latest expansion.  Granted, this is more due to the increased heroic difficulty than to the story-driven nature. 

Also: comparing any MMO under development to WoW is a fool's errand.  WoW is a gaming phenomenon that will likely never be repeated in the MMO genre.

[Draegan]

Also: comparing any MMO under development to WoW is a fool's errand.  WoW is a gaming phenomenon that will likely never be repeated in the MMO genre.

I doubt that very much.  Maybe in the near future, but never?  C'mon now.

[UnSub]

You sure about that 11 million number?  My impression was that subs, particularly in North America, were down with the latest expansion. 

I believe they announced it was down 600k from about 12m. What's happening within each was unspecified iirc.

[Nebu]

I doubt that very much.  Maybe in the near future, but never?  C'mon now.

Just for argument's sake, I was referring to the west.  Having said that...

WoW gave millions of people their first taste of an MMO.  I'm betting that many of them learned what they liked and didn't like about the game providing more momentum for the niche MMO market.  What I'm predicting is a future where there are more MMO's with a sustainable population of 300-500k or maybe even 1 million.  I just can't imagine anything being the blockbuster that WoW was when the novelty and shine have worn off for so many existing players.  Also, the population is aging.  

[Draegan]

The west (NA+EU) peaked at, what, 6 million in WOW's prime?

I am definitely agreeing that we'll see more 500-1mill games being made, but I have no doubt we'll see very large 1-5 million sub games (NA+EU) in the next 5-10 years.  As we move out of the DIKU/hotbar/Raid driven gameplay into more organic gameplay we'll see it grow tremendously. 

If GW2 is half of what they are promising it'll be the first baby step in the direction of creating a more organic world.  However GW2 still promises to be a series of fully scripted, however complicated, events that will have event trees within the first year of being online.

While leveling up in that atmosphere will be freaking awesome, I have no idea what GW2's endgame will be like in a fully open world.  I understand the whole PVP aspect of it which will be fun, but how do you get episodic content when the world is open rather that instanced?  Can't wait to find out though. 

The GW2 talk belongs in another thread though.

[Sky]

I liked CoH/V a lot more than WoW, and played way more of them than I ended up playing WoW. Iirc, WoW was three months for me, hit level 58 on my hunter and got bored.

Rift is a fine game, just not for me. I'd love the soul/role system in another game. Reading up on TOR advanced classes, I'd love the ability to switch between a few specs on the fly, Rift really got that right.

But yeah, TOR is where you'll probably find me for quite a while. The only way I can see not really digging into that is if they get pushed too hard to make it too much of a dikummo standard. Rift made a lot of those moves late in the development and really pushed me away in a pretty major way.

My hope for TOR is that they make a bajillion dollars on the launch, pay off the development, and then disappoint all the jaded mmo players who love Rift by not caving into pressures to make it a jaded mmo. I really hope that from Falc and Draegan's perspective, it sucks  I like that it's focus seems to be a co-op story, I hope we can keep enough of a group together to play it through without everyone quitting because it's not hardcore or whatever. I'd like to think Nebs would stick around, but I know you like to hop from game to game with the frequency of a cheap ham radio.  There looks to be such a massive amount of content for the leveling game, I imagine those who aren't into the journey but rather the race to the endgame will be totally missing out on what the game has to offer.

[Nebu]

I'd like to think Nebs would stick around, but I know you like to hop from game to game with the frequency of a cheap ham radio. 

I played DAOC for over 5 years.  Why?  Because I had a steady group of people to enjoy it with.  If TOR turns out to be a good game AND people stay with it for a while, I will definitely stick with it. 

I was about to quit Rift after 2 months when I met a wonderful group of people to start playing with.  The social interaction will definitely keep me subbed far longer than I ever would have solo. 

[Sky]

I couldn't meet the guild requirements for the people I was playing Rift with 

Two different guilds, too.

[Rasix]

I couldn't meet the guild requirements for the people I was playing Rift with 

Two different guilds, too.

Only thing that disqualifies you for Bat Country is lack of a pulse.  However, we wave that requirement for board established undead.

Still having fun.  Toying with playing a cleric for a bit even though the rogue is still interesting.  It's a bit lonely in the guild, but I'm a soloer so it's of little consequence.

[Sjofn]

One day we'll be on at the same time, Rasix, and you can invite me and we will never talk to each other but SEE each other on the guild page and it'll be awesome!

RIFT is giving me a bit of a CoX vibe, but mostly because it's a game that I can see myself picking up and putting back down a lot. There are things about it I really, really like, but I don't know if I like them enough to stick around for extended periods of time. But just like how I still occassionally re-up with CoX because sometimes a girl just wants to punch people in the face, I'm pretty sure I will still sometimes re-up with RIFT because sometimes a girl wants to run around a zone shrieking "ARGH WHAT IS GOING ON."

[Sky]

So just like Blood Bowl if Ingmar isn't around during your match?

 

[Sjofn]

He was only even in the house for my match against proudft, I'll have you know!  





But yes. 

[Ingmar]

If I was playing the matches I'd buy a damn wizard, I assure you.

[Dren]

I have a char in the guild.  3 others on the same server, not all guardians.  I'm on plenty.