Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution

[Mrbloodworth]

Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution has the first episode for streaming on its site.


I first encountered him from his TED talks. After watching this, I am at a loss for words, completely. You will weep for your children.

"Pink Slime" Is just what you think it is. 

[NowhereMan]

A friend of mine went into a chippy in Scotland a few years ago having been told they did fantastic battered Mars bars. The guy running the shop told them that they'd stopped doing those and that they could all thank Jamie Oliver.

Basically people are stupid and unpleasant when it comes to educating them about food (until such time as you actually get through to them, which I guess is the good part of the show).

[Trippy]

It's even more depressing if you compare how we do school lunches here in the US to what they do in a country like Italy. There's a segment in the show Jamie's Great Italian Escape where he visits an Italian elementary school and sees how they make school lunches there. Maybe I'll post that segment to YouTube -- they don't distribute that video in the US, I had to import it from Amazon UK.

[Ironwood]

A friend of mine went into a chippy in Scotland a few years ago having been told they did fantastic battered Mars bars. The guy running the shop told them that they'd stopped doing those and that they could all thank Jamie Oliver.

Basically people are stupid and unpleasant when it comes to educating them about food (until such time as you actually get through to them, which I guess is the good part of the show).

Except that's total bullshit and a fine example of Scottish humour at the same time.

[Khaldun]

He is like a lot of well-meaning people who think they know the right way to live, pay little attention to the actual limitations on budgets and institutions, and are dumbfoundedly unable to grasp why folks might not welcome a sincere, innocently self-righteous, outsider telling them how to live their lives. And of course just as polite society gave a huzzah and a shout-out to missionaries out to convert the benighted heathens largely to confirm their own sense of being better than those heathens, so too do people largely watch this sort of stuff to compliment themselves for their food morality. I mean, yes, of course that horrible shit that gets added to ground beef is indeed horrible shit, and chicken nuggets are made with pulverized bone and tendons and crap. But on the other hand, premodern butchery of the organic kind that we foodies exalt pretty much used every part of the animal too. Sausage wasn't made from beef tenderloin and pork shoulder. The distance sometimes between highly industrialized food processing and non-industrial food processing is sometimes less far than we suppose, and teaching kids to fear "icky things" not only doesn't work but might have perversely unintended effects.

The real issue in the end isn't teaching the heathens to convert to foodieism. It's all about the money: you want good-quality school lunches? Add it to the budgets for schools, make it a genuine priority. You want good-quality food in supermarkets? Sure, educate the consumers, but you need to have subsidies behind that kind of food production rather than behind corn syrup and cheese.

That said, it's kind of a good show. In part because a lot of this stuff comes out in the end. In fact, I almost think Oliver is purposefully staging himself to be more clueless than he is.

[HaemishM]

Oliver used to be an entertaining wacky chef from England. Somewhere in the last few years, he lost his fucking mind and went all crusader on us. While he certainly has good intentions, the talk with him and the fast food restaurant guy was maddening. He ran right up against the American spirit in that conversation. Yes, it's better, but it cuts down my profit and my customers won't like changing the stuff they eat even if it's killing them.

I had heard about the pink slime thing from a really good documentary, Food, Inc.

[Ironwood]

I always find it annoying to be told how to eat healthy vegetables from a man with 50 fucking acres of vegetable fields and his own team of personal gardeners out his back door.

And then he rails at people in council flats for eating chips.

Don't get me wrong, he's RIGHT, but not in the right way....

[HaemishM]

Yeah, Oliver is right, but he completely ignores the fact that eating healthy is EXPENSIVE, especially in America.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yeah, Oliver is right, but he completely ignores the fact that eating healthy is EXPENSIVE, especially in America.

I don't think he does. I do think he feels, what ever the cost, we should be morally bound to provide better food to children.   

[Ironwood]

That's fine if the guy telling me is using his last farthing.

Coming from some cunt worth millions, it just sounds pompous.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, Oliver is right, but he completely ignores the fact that eating healthy is EXPENSIVE, especially in America.

I don't think he does. I do think he feels, what ever the cost, we should be morally bound to provide better food to children.   

And I don't necessarily disagree when it comes to our school systems. The entire education system could use a boost equivalent to a fraction of what we spend on defense.

But telling people living paycheck to paycheck that you need to pay more FOR TEH CHILDREN comes off, as Ironwood said, just a wee bit pompous from a guy that could buy and sell me before lunch.

[Trippy]

I'm not sure why it matters whether or not Jamie Oliver has a comfortable life (that he worked very hard for). It's not like he has billions of his own money with which to solve the problem himself.

[Paelos]

I'm not sure why it matters whether or not Jamie Oliver has a comfortable life (that he worked very hard for). It's not like he has billions of his own money with which to solve the problem himself.

It does if the concerns are financial, and his efforts are mostly being a loud idiot while lining his own pockets rather than donating his own money to the cause.

He gives quite readily to other causes like his foundation to help disadvantaged youth through culinary careers. If he did a show on that, and preached it's success to helping out those whom society gave up on, I am behind him 100%.

Coming across the pond briefly to tell us our children are fat? Thanks, numbnuts. We knew that. Get back on your fucking jet and take Michael Moore, Al Gore, and Michael Spurlock with you.

[Trippy]

He does put his own money these things. Dumbfucks.

[Ironwood]

I'm not sure why it matters whether or not Jamie Oliver has a comfortable life (that he worked very hard for). It's not like he has billions of his own money with which to solve the problem himself.

Because it's mostly just 'Come On, You Can Do It, Try Harder' type fucking nonsense, rather than practical and cost effective advice.  Have you tried his 30 minute meals ?  I have.  I've tried almost all of them now.  That shit ain't cheap.

Further, he talks about how 'easy' it is to grow your own vegetables.  To squads of people living in a council tower block.  He's so far removed from the poverty, he doesn't have a fucking clue.

Really.

[Paelos]

He does put his own money these things. Dumbfucks.

Enlighten me. Point me to dollar figures please. In the US, not the UK.

[Goumindong]

I'm not sure why it matters whether or not Jamie Oliver has a comfortable life (that he worked very hard for). It's not like he has billions of his own money with which to solve the problem himself.

It matters because it makes his claim "Lazarus, heal thyself". Railing against the bad food people eat is one thing. Proposing societal solutions is another thing.

Telling people they can just do it if they try, when they can't, because that shit is expensive, time consuming, and space consuming. Likely three things they do not have in excess... which he does as a millionaire chef is just patronizing.

I live where food is cheap. But I am busy as all fuck, so i rarely have time to make good food or make sure that i can keep fresh vegetables around and I am poor due to the whole college student thing. I know that i can find lots of places that have great food that is fresh that i can go and buy from. But i can't go out every night(I need that money for lunch when i have 12 hour days), and i can't waste 30 minutes to hour preparing food and cleaning up after the process.

So shitty food it generally is

[Sand]

Here is the link to his US foundation.
http://www.jamieoliver.com/us/foundation/jamies-food-revolution/about

Its listed as a 501(c)(3). So its financial statements must be public somewhere. Not sure how much of his own money goes into it.

The recipes listed on the US site dont look particularly expensive, they simply use {gasp} fresh ingredients.

[Khaldun]

Price out fresh ingredients sometime. Then stack them up against processed shit. Then consider both in bulk. Then consider the labor time involved in prepping fresh ingredients and bundle that into the cost.

You might learn a few things that will surprise you.

[Goumindong]

When you actually price out the cost of a meal for a single person, including opportunity costs it can actually be cheaper to eat out than it is to make something yourself.

I mean, prep time+dishes+travel time to the grocer+actual food costs.

It probably takes me 30 minutes less time to eat out than it does to prepare for a single person per meal (ordering in is even easier) including all travel time.

If i value my time at 10 bucks/hour then i have to get the food costs under 5 dollars in order to make it worthwhile to eat in. if i value my time at 20 bucks/hour (and this is not an unreasonable assumption given my intertemporal consumption on expected profession) then the food has to be free in order for it to be cheaper for me to make something myself.

[Mrbloodworth]

Amazing effort made to miss the point guys. Look him up, the man has given his own house to support his causes.

[Paelos]

Amazing effort made to miss the point guys. Look him up, the man has given his own house to support his causes.

I am looking him up. His American version of this Food Revolution is establishing a fund through America Gives Back, Inc. The charity was a rebranding rollover that took the donations from an American Idol donation drive back in 2007, and established an endowment. From what I can see by going through their tax records, they never received any more cash of consequence beyond the initial push done then. It's run primarily by UK directors and staff.

It took in $71M and held back $10M which it managed for the last 2 years for reasons I can't directly see. They haven't donated any of that money or paid their officers anything. It's just sitting there. When they release the 2010 990's I can tell you more, but I'm confused as to why Jaime decided to use that particular fund which is a holding ground for large amounts of money for last couple years, or why it felt the need to rename itself after the original American Idol contest.

It's also directly connected to a $6M donation from Newscorp (FOX).

[Khaldun]

Amazing effort made to miss the point guys. Look him up, the man has given his own house to support his causes.

I don't actually care that much about his own donations. I care about whether what's telling people takes economic constraints into any kind of meaningful consideration. He could agree to donate every penny he makes until he's 90 years old and it wouldn't make a meaningful dent to the gap between what he's telling people and institutions to do and the actual resources that many of them have at hand. His heart is in the right place, his basic insights are sound, and the show is watchable enough. But something about it still grates on me, partly because he's like a great many people that blithely tell other people how to live the right way without taking into account some of the reasons why they don't--or can't.

[Merusk]

When you actually price out the cost of a meal for a single person, including opportunity costs it can actually be cheaper to eat out than it is to make something yourself.

I mean, prep time+dishes+travel time to the grocer+actual food costs.

It probably takes me 30 minutes less time to eat out than it does to prepare for a single person per meal (ordering in is even easier) including all travel time.

If i value my time at 10 bucks/hour then i have to get the food costs under 5 dollars in order to make it worthwhile to eat in. if i value my time at 20 bucks/hour (and this is not an unreasonable assumption given my intertemporal consumption on expected profession) then the food has to be free in order for it to be cheaper for me to make something myself.

Do you get fucking lost in the grocery store, or something?  I'm in & out with a weeks worth of groceries for a family of four, including picking out fresh produce, in 30-45 mins, tops.  That's less time than it takes to get a pizza.   Prepping and cooking is easy if you're not making some elaborate weekend-only meal.  The longest it's ever taken me to cook a weeknight something was 45 mins and that's because I'm not the one who usually makes the enchiladas, so I had to read each step of the recipe.

[MuffinMan]

People will go to great lengths to justify the eating decisions they make. You might find if you don't eat like shit you won't feel like shit i.e. it's not all about the immediate cost.

It takes me 3 minutes to throw a salad together for lunch in the morning. Cheap as hell too.

[Paelos]

Brown rice - $.79
Red Beans - $1.09
Can of tomatoes - $.89
Smoked Turkey Sausage - $2.50
Frozen cut onion and peppers blend - $1

Total - around $7 with tax

I can eat dinner from that for four days, with some salad sides. It's healthy, low fat, and contains a lot of quality minerals. I also usually toss some chopped spinach in it or some collard greens. You make it on a Sunday and reheat it in containers, and it's less than $2 a day.

[Merusk]

Exactly.  Now, if the problem was you live in an urban environ and don't have access to a grocery, that's a more believable complaint as it's a real and growing problem.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28300393/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/

[lamaros]

India is a country of over a billion people with a processed food market of about 2%. It is far far more expensive to eat process food there than the other way around.

I don't live in America, but I have visited, and you don't have to choose between expensive and fast food. As Paelos points out well. Grain and pulses are not expensive, and you can get spinach, tomatoes, carrots, cabbage, etc without having to mortgage anything.

I do agree that Jamie is a but of a nutter (read a good interview with him a while back - the man seems to get about 2 hours sleep a day and half the stuff he talks about never happens) who has little perspective on how to translate and communicate his ideas about food to the reality that most people deal with, but he is well meaning and I do agree with his aims in a general sense. Education and access would be the biggest problems most people would face, and as is nearly aways the case, more good would be done by coming in and working you how and why the current system works before proposing solutions to fix it.

[Goumindong]

Do you get fucking lost in the grocery store, or something?  I'm in & out with a weeks worth of groceries for a family of four, including picking out fresh produce, in 30-45 mins, tops.  That's less time than it takes to get a pizza.   Prepping and cooking is easy if you're not making some elaborate weekend-only meal.  The longest it's ever taken me to cook a weeknight something was 45 mins and that's because I'm not the one who usually makes the enchiladas, so I had to read each step of the recipe.

Yes, when you purchase enough food for a family of 4 it makes sense. But I purchase enough food for a family of 1. It takes me about 30 minutes to do my shopping, probably less(would be more, but I don't buy as much perishable food that requires picking). So lets say it takes 30 minutes and I will get about 5 meals out of it before the fresh food starts to go bad.

So, 6 minutes per meal, 30 minutes to make it including prep, 45 minutes including cleaning up the dishes, pots/pans.

I guessed 1 hour to eat if I prep it and 30 minutes if I get it made for me, instead it was 51 minutes. I assumed a 10 dollar price tag on the meal. If i order then the time is fucking zero because i can do other stuff while waiting for the food to come. [And i can do other things while waiting for food at a restaurant too]

you can get spinach

Where the fuck do you people live. The cheapest spinach in Richmond VA comes from the salad bar and its 5 dollars/pound. All other spinach is in excess of 10 dollars a pound.

[lamaros]

I live in Sydney. But I was just using a random example. Broccoli? Kale? Cabbage? Any other green vegetable will do.

Surely they're not all super expensive. Surely there's a market or green grocer somewhere that doesn't cost the earth.

Also if you're just cooking for yourself; make too much and eat it for lunches?

I don't get the "my time is worth $x" thingo either. Sure it is, when you're at work. But when you're not at work it's not, and when you're making yourself dinner it isn't a choice between "work and get someone else to cook and pay them $10" that often, it's normally "sit around watching tv, playing a game and get someone else to cook and pay them $10", which doesn't come out in your favour.

Also cooking can be fun and relaxing and a good way to stop and think about the day, rather than constantly distracting your brain with stuff.

[PS. Whenever I am just cooking for myself I can always wash up everything while cooking, leaving only a plate/bowl and utensils for afterwards]

[Paelos]

Where the fuck do you people live. The cheapest spinach in Richmond VA comes from the salad bar and its 5 dollars/pound. All other spinach is in excess of 10 dollars a pound.

Dude, get frozen spinach for $1 for a 12oz box. It's about eating the vegetables, not making your life a complicated mess.

[Merusk]

People will go to great lengths to justify the eating decisions they make. You might find if you don't eat like shit you won't feel like shit i.e. it's not all about the immediate cost.

It takes me 3 minutes to throw a salad together for lunch in the morning. Cheap as hell too.

You were right.

[MuffinMan]

Yes, when you purchase enough food for a family of 4 it makes sense. But I purchase enough food for a family of 1. It takes me about 30 minutes to do my shopping, probably less(would be more, but I don't buy as much perishable food that requires picking). So lets say it takes 30 minutes and I will get about 5 meals out of it before the fresh food starts to go bad.

So, 6 minutes per meal, 30 minutes to make it including prep, 45 minutes including cleaning up the dishes, pots/pans.

I guessed 1 hour to eat if I prep it and 30 minutes if I get it made for me, instead it was 51 minutes. I assumed a 10 dollar price tag on the meal. If i order then the time is fucking zero because i can do other stuff while waiting for the food to come. [And i can do other things while waiting for food at a restaurant too]

If these are actual, non-inflated numbers then you are just really, really bad at shopping/cooking. Also, you could eat like a king for $10/meal cooked at home for a single person.

[Margalis]

Cooking when you live by yourself really does suck though. Either you eat the same one or two things every day for a week or something goes bad.

Because Americans are such fat-asses I guess it's really hard to buy portions that are appropriate for one person. There are some things that I just cannot buy, like all cheeses, unless I want to eat a fucking cheese sandwich every day or have half of it turn to mold.

[Pennilenko]

Wife and I go to the store to spend time together. We spend 50 to 60 bucks, and normally get three meals a day for 5 days out of it. This includes breakfast and lunch fruits, things like oatmeal, reasonably priced cuts of meat, beans, rice, eggs, milk, fresh vegetables. When fresh vegetable prices get high for what ever reason, canned vegetables and frozen vegetables are still a much healthier thing than fast food option. I am certain, too, that we could probably even stretch that spending if we cut back on portioning, which would probably be even better.

 If you take fast food or restaurants into account, I don't know anywhere you can get off for just lunch for less than 5 bucks, and that's cutting it tight. So me and my wife each spending 5 bucks on lunch each for 5 days equals 50 bucks, and that number is conservative. So by going to the supermarket, we got 5 days of meals at three meals a day for the money we would have spent on just lunches if we ate fast food crap.

I've lived all over the united states, from urban sprawl to the middle of nowhere. I have never lived anywhere in the US where there wasn't a super market with fresh vegetables. My entire life it has been cheaper to buy meal ingredients from a supermarket  and make then than it is to go out to eat. I don't understand the excuses some of you make for eating poorly.