Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution

[Pennilenko]

There are some things that I just cannot buy, like all cheeses, unless I want to eat a fucking cheese sandwich every day or have half of it turn to mold.

If you buy a block of cheese and slice what you need, then wrap it tight with plastic wrap it can last much longer than you would think. Also there are these things in stores, they are called the deli. Ive never seen a store without one, you can have them slice cheese for you at no extra charge, and you can order however little you want, because they charge by weight.

[Goumindong]

If your cheese molds, cut off the moldy part and eat away.

If these are actual, non-inflated numbers then you are just really, really bad at shopping/cooking. Also, you could eat like a king for $10/meal cooked at home for a single person.

Including travel time yea, its pretty close.

[NowhereMan]

Honestly it sounds a lot more like you just haven't learned how to cook healthily and efficiently rather than it being unpossible. If you're cooking for yourself you shouldn't be doing a full, from scratch 3 course dinner every night, that does take a lot of time and ends up with you choosing to just get take away half the time because you don't feel like putting in any effort. Making a big batch of stuff on the weekend and refrigerating it is pretty great, cooked food will last at least a week in the fridge, stored properly and if you know you'll get sick of it you can freeze it. It's also possible to stick a lot of variation into side or veggies that you have with it which can add some variety while still letting you just reheat the main portion of your meal. Stuff like salads are quick and easy to put together as long as you know a few basic things like dressings to add or main things you can toss in.

Also, as has been said, buying frozen veggies is great. You get more or less the same goodness without worrying about things going bad and less cost. Shopping also takes a lot less time if you've spent some time actually planning out a shopping list based around an actual meal plan with the added benefit of controlling costs and minimising stuff you end up tossing. Keep up the planning and have a few recipes learned and it becomes much easier but there's definitely a period of actually learning how to cook healthily and cheaply. Also it will take up time, less and less but it's worth viewing it as an extension of a hobby .

[Malakili]

When you actually price out the cost of a meal for a single person, including opportunity costs it can actually be cheaper to eat out than it is to make something yourself.

I mean, prep time+dishes+travel time to the grocer+actual food costs.

It probably takes me 30 minutes less time to eat out than it does to prepare for a single person per meal (ordering in is even easier) including all travel time.

If i value my time at 10 bucks/hour then i have to get the food costs under 5 dollars in order to make it worthwhile to eat in. if i value my time at 20 bucks/hour (and this is not an unreasonable assumption given my intertemporal consumption on expected profession) then the food has to be free in order for it to be cheaper for me to make something myself.

Your problem is that you need to stop treating every god damn decision in your life like a game theory question. 

[Ironwood]

As I've repeatedly stated, I agree with Olivers views.  His TED talk was one I posted here and it was a staggering viewing;  as there are kids that can't identify vegetables.  That's horrendous.

My point is that the way in which he attempts this message is not optimum and antagonises the very audience he's attempting to reach.

...

Also, his Jerk Chicken is a cunt to make and ended up tasting Shite when I did it.

The rest of the noise here bothers me not at all.

(Also, I'm thin.  Kinda. )

[Khaldun]

I live in a basic middle-class suburb near where I work. 10 minutes from me by car is a Trader Joe's, a decent large supermarket chain, and a smaller supermarket that's pretty good. I have a moderately large vegetable garden in the summers. I'm a foodie, so my bad weight-accumulating habits tend to operate at the opposite end from fast food and ground beef with pink slime. But at any rate, people living in my neighborhood have the means and the access to cook fresh food all the time. They may not have the time--there are definitely folks in our neighborhood where both parents are working long or odd hours and trying to juggle child care including afterschool activities--the couple across the street are an internist and a nurse and have two young kids of their own and a slightly older child by her first marriage and though they really try to cook I know that there are days where it's got to be frozen stuff or take-out or something. Ok.

Now go 20 minutes south of me and you're in a very poor small city that has many elderly whites on fixed incomes and a large African-American population. I occasionally get involved in community development and service learning projects that work there. The closest large supermarket to this city is probably the one that's near me: there are none down in the city itself. Zero. There are a very small number of corner stores that charge HUGE markups on the food they sell and mostly only sell highly processed stuff like Wonder Bread with a very small selection of not-too-fresh vegetables and no fresh meat. There has been an earnest attempt to start a farmer's market over the last fifteen years and it might finally happen soon after endless political bickering from the totally dysfunctional City Council. But it's not going to have too much and it will almost certainly operate only limited hours. There are some fast food restaurants. Many of the residents of the city do not have access to a car, and the public transportation that would get them to supermarkets are infrequent bus routes or a light rail whose only terminus is at one end of the city and where it would be a 20 minute trip with a fairly high-priced daily ticket to get to where there is a market.

I've travelled and lived in areas of the Northeast where this is pretty much the case that aren't even in that kind of quintessential situation of urban poverty--just deindustrialized pockets with a scattering of service jobs as the main employment left, where the major supermarket is probably a 20-25 minute trip away by car, might be a Wal-Mart, and the alternative is generally a high-priced corner store with limited selection.

Keep in mind that Oliver is also talking about school lunches. Take a look at the budgets that most school districts have to work with, and again, keep in mind that it's not just about the cost of the foodstuffs but also the labor time and skills involved in preparation. You maybe can throw together a salad for lunch for yourself in just a few minutes, but if you're feeding 1500 kids that's another story. Working with fresh food on an institutional scale really takes some training and some facilities that school districts can't afford at their current budgets--you can't just say, "You can do it!" if you're not willing to finance it. I sure as shit don't want three minimum wage employees with no food industry training trying to work with fresh meat or other things that could cross-contaminate in a kitchen space that isn't properly set up for that kind of work trying to serve my 10-year old some food. And honestly, given all the other things I'm expecting my school district to do for my daughter and her peers, it might be that on a limited budget, if they serve pink-slime-laden sloppy joes once a week, that's just the way it's got to be for the moment.

People who insist that they can just banish trade-offs altogether through pluck and will are never to be trusted. Someone else eventually has to foot the bill for the unintended consequences that folks like that leave strewn in their wake.

[Mrbloodworth]

See, I enjoy his message because part of his main thrust is education, this includes teaching kids and people how to cook, shop and budget for food ( His low income food kitchens teach such things )

My point is that the way in which he attempts this message is not optimum and antagonises the very audience he's attempting to reach.

I can agree to a point, part of his thing is activism, bringing attention to the issues. I think his show is a good platform for that. At times his show is about him trying to figure out how to get it across to people, and the trials it causes.

[K9]

As I've repeatedly stated, I agree with Olivers views.  His TED talk was one I posted here and it was a staggering viewing;  as there are kids that can't identify vegetables.  That's horrendous.

My point is that the way in which he attempts this message is not optimum and antagonises the very audience he's attempting to reach.

This is pretty much what I feel. I have unbounded admiration for his dedication and his investment into these causes, but fuck me can he be preachy at times.

[Paelos]

Also, his Jerk Chicken is a cunt to make and ended up tasting Shite when I did it.

The rest of the noise here bothers me not at all.

(Also, I'm thin.  Kinda. )

The US is slowly making Scotland's dietary habits look progressive.

[Numtini]

I think Jamie Oliver is a lightning rod who for many people tends to reinforce the notion that there is no middle ground between organic local food and big macs and stuff out of boxed mixes. I don't think that's what he's trying to do, but it seems to be what he's actually accomplishing.

Oh spinach, $1.79/10oz bag and Cape Cod food prices are pretty high. That's actual adult curly spinach, not baby spinach which is essentially a luxury salad ingredient.

Hmm. I wonder if I can talk my partner into creamed spinach tonight... Talking about delicious stuff that takes 2 minutes to prep from scratch.

[Mrbloodworth]

Oh spinach, $1.79/10oz bag and Cape Cod food prices are pretty high. That's actual adult curly spinach, not baby spinach which is essentially a luxury salad ingredient.

Bet its cheaper not in a bag. ( I assume in a bag you mean just leaves, and already processed/cut )

[HaemishM]

For most of the lower-income people in America, fast food doesn't necessarily enter into the equation. I'm more talking about food that you do buy in the grocery store - pre-packaged shit like mac and cheese boxes, Hamburger Helper, and other sorts of one-pot easy to prepare dirt cheap meals. These things take no skill to cook, are tasty and cheap and are horrible for you. Making fresh meals takes skill and training, even if it's just training from mommy - which many broken homes with single parents as sole breadwinners don't have time to teach anymore because they are working three fucking jobs to make sure they have any food at all.

If you start looking at drinks, it's even worse. You can get a bottle of soda for less than a buck that might last a family a day. Fruit juices cost easily 3-4 times that, and even those are using the same shitty high fructose corn syrup sweeteners that the sodas use, but at least they are better for you than the soda. Bottled water is at least somewhere in between that in costs. Milk is about like fruit juice on cost.

I'm not saying you CAN'T make fresh, healthy meals that are as cheap. But doing so requires effort and time that low-income families don't have, but more importantly, it requires knowledge and training that they don't have. In the respect that Jamie Oliver is very focused on EDUCATION, I support him. I think he's doing a good thing for good reasons.

He's just crap at delivering that message, because he comes off as condescending and he doesn't get the idea of the costs and efforts involved. And he's really crap at taking on the institutionalization of the problem, not realizing that things are the way they are because a lot of people are making a lot of money providing such inadequate product.

[Pennilenko]

Blah blah blah the poor this the poor that. I grew up fucking dirt poor, so poor we needed donated cloths, and for many many years my parents couldn't afford a car or bus tickets. My parents rode broken down bicycles to work sometimes over long distances. When my parents weren't working they were sleeping getting ready for more work. I raised my sisters. We still ate fresh ingredients because my parents went without bullshit and cut their personal expenses the bone. I remember taking a bus for like an hour to the supermarket every Saturday morning for like an hour each way. They budgeted and cut costs everywhere so we could eat real food. Everything i hear in this thread is a bullshit fucking lazy ass excuse. Oliver is right, people can eat right, and train their kids right if they are fucking willing to not be lazy and make sacrifices to make it happen.

The health of our children's future is worth as much hard work as it takes to secure, period, I don't see how its a stance anyone can even argue.

[HaemishM]

The health of our children's future is worth as much hard work as it takes to secure, period, I don't see how its a stance anyone can even argue.

Nowhere have I said it wasn't worth it, just that the system of government and commerce in America is actively trying to make it as difficult as possible to do.

[Numtini]

Bet its cheaper not in a bag. ( I assume in a bag you mean just leaves, and already processed/cut )

That's basically how it goes unless you go frozen/canned. We don't get spinach in bulk or bunches. FWIW I'm talking about generic/stop and shop branded bags of adult spinach, not baby, which requires rinsing and a few minutes to paw through and remove the worst of the stems. The really expensive stuff is the baby spinach for salads in bags that you can pour directly into a bowl and dress.

[Khaldun]

Blah blah blah the poor this the poor that. I grew up fucking dirt poor, so poor we needed donated cloths, and for many many years my parents couldn't afford a car or bus tickets. My parents rode broken down bicycles to work sometimes over long distances. When my parents weren't working they were sleeping getting ready for more work. I raised my sisters. We still ate fresh ingredients because my parents went without bullshit and cut their personal expenses the bone. I remember taking a bus for like an hour to the supermarket every Saturday morning for like an hour each way. They budgeted and cut costs everywhere so we could eat real food. Everything i hear in this thread is a bullshit fucking lazy ass excuse. Oliver is right, people can eat right, and train their kids right if they are fucking willing to not be lazy and make sacrifices to make it happen.

The health of our children's future is worth as much hard work as it takes to secure, period, I don't see how its a stance anyone can even argue.

I love this "it's all about the hard work, and not ever money, back in my day blah blah blah" trope. Keep honing it a bit and you'll be ready in no time for a Tea Party membership card. This kind of stuff shows a near-total inability to imagine circumstances and histories other than one's own, which is pretty much why most attempts to persuade people to do something different than what they do fail--because that kind of appeal mistakes the entire world for oneself. Kind of like Oliver does.

[Ironwood]

It also kinda misses the point that we did it better back then because it WAS the cheaper option and processed shit simply wasn't as ubiquitous.

[Malakili]

I'm not saying you CAN'T make fresh, healthy meals that are as cheap. But doing so requires effort and time that low-income families don't have, but more importantly, it requires knowledge and training that they don't have. In the respect that Jamie Oliver is very focused on EDUCATION, I support him. I think he's doing a good thing for good reasons.

I think its just very much a societal problem.   People don't consider food to be something that is an important thing to deal with it. Its like fuel or something, they feel hungry and they need to stuff some shit down their throats so they stop being hungry.

And to be fair while there is a serious problem for low income families, there are a lot of people who have the means and the time, and just don't give a fuck.  A. Lot. Of. People.  The problem isn't simply one of training, knowledge and income.  Its a problem of caring about food, putting thought beyond "this tastes good" into what you are eating.

Now, I'm vegan, and I'm not really interested in preaching veganism because to me that isn't really the point.  But the NUMBER ONE thing that I do tell people when they ask about my diet is that I don't really care what they choose to eat in the end, but PLEASE at least think about what you are eating, why you are eating it, etc.  Its getting people to just start thinking seriously about it that I think is the most important thing, because I find that when it(diet/food) comes up, most people just literally haven't given it serious thought before, and I think that is problematic.

[bhodi]

The school lunch thing is a huge, HUGE issue.

[Xanthippe]

Yeah, Oliver is right, but he completely ignores the fact that eating healthy is EXPENSIVE, especially in America.

No, it's not.  It's time-consuming.  If by expensive, you mean time-consuming, you're right.

The key is to make everything oneself.  A person can make nutritional meals at home using fresh ingredients, provided they are willing to cook or willing to learn to, and have access to a grocery store that sells fresh ingredients.

Buying fast food is more expensive than cooking healthy food.

[Xanthippe]

If i value my time at 10 bucks/hour then i have to get the food costs under 5 dollars in order to make it worthwhile to eat in. if i value my time at 20 bucks/hour (and this is not an unreasonable assumption given my intertemporal consumption on expected profession) then the food has to be free in order for it to be cheaper for me to make something myself.

Being able to price out your time is a luxury that poor people don't have, so for poor people, eating something prepared and cooked at home is almost always cheaper than eating out.

If nobody is around to pay you $10/hr, then your time isn't worth $10/hr.

[Xanthippe]

I'm not saying you CAN'T make fresh, healthy meals that are as cheap. But doing so requires effort and time that low-income families don't have, but more importantly, it requires knowledge and training that they don't have. In the respect that Jamie Oliver is very focused on EDUCATION, I support him. I think he's doing a good thing for good reasons.

I don't think we can assume that everyone has the desire to eat healthy foods, and simply lacks the opportunity.  Some people just don't care. 

In the face of every obstacle you have listed, I am sure that I could feed my family healthy foods on food stamps and little else. I learned to cook at a young age, though, and have parents who grew up during the Depression who made sure that I knew how to survive properly.  Fast food is a luxury when you're poor, or it used to be. 

[Malakili]

I'm not saying you CAN'T make fresh, healthy meals that are as cheap. But doing so requires effort and time that low-income families don't have, but more importantly, it requires knowledge and training that they don't have. In the respect that Jamie Oliver is very focused on EDUCATION, I support him. I think he's doing a good thing for good reasons.

I don't think we can assume that everyone has the desire to eat healthy foods, and simply lacks the opportunity.  Some people just don't care. 

In the face of every obstacle you have listed, I am sure that I could feed my family healthy foods on food stamps and little else. I learned to cook at a young age, though, and have parents who grew up during the Depression who made sure that I knew how to survive properly.  Fast food is a luxury when you're poor, or it used to be. 

Most of this stuff has already been addressed in this thread.  Fast food isn't just McDonalds, its also the super cheap ready made out of the box crap out there (Mac and Cheese, etc), which is less than a dollar per box.  Its very cheap, very fast, and filling.  I don't disagree with what you are saying - that people don't care - but it really is a combo of both.  As I said earlier, I think its far more telling when plenty of families with incomes to support a healthy lifestyle still don't eat well, and that is also incredibly common. 

[Speedy Cerviche]

I think its just very much a societal problem.   People don't consider food to be something that is an important thing to deal with it. Its like fuel or something, they feel hungry and they need to stuff some shit down their throats so they stop being hungry.

And to be fair while there is a serious problem for low income families, there are a lot of people who have the means and the time, and just don't give a fuck.  A. Lot. Of. People.  The problem isn't simply one of training, knowledge and income.  Its a problem of caring about food, putting thought beyond "this tastes good" into what you are eating.

Now, I'm vegan, and I'm not really interested in preaching veganism because to me that isn't really the point.  But the NUMBER ONE thing that I do tell people when they ask about my diet is that I don't really care what they choose to eat in the end, but PLEASE at least think about what you are eating, why you are eating it, etc.  Its getting people to just start thinking seriously about it that I think is the most important thing, because I find that when it(diet/food) comes up, most people just literally haven't given it serious thought before, and I think that is problematic.

Good post. Jamie Oliver might be a rich asshole,  people who advocate that everyone eat organic locally grown non-GM food are usually completely out of touch with the reality that poor families do not have the time or money to eat like this.

On the other hand though, there's a lot of stuff even poor, rushed families could do that would seriously enhance the quality of nutrition without adding serious time and monetary burdens to their daily regimen. As Malakill said, we all have seen or know plenty of people who have decent jobs, disposable income, take vacations, etc. Who are fat blimps eating pure shit. This problem is not just limited to people around the poverty line. Like Malakil alsol said, a lot could be accomplished with a bit more thought & attitude change at a personal level, and this is where advocates (even if they are flawed) like Oliver who raise awareness of these issues do provide a public service.

[Ironwood]

Yes.  Yes, it is.  In that regard, I've been entirely on his side since Elena starts school in August.

It's corporate greed edging into our education system and I'm going to stop there lest this gets political.

[Xanthippe]

Most of this stuff has already been addressed in this thread.  Fast food isn't just McDonalds, its also the super cheap ready made out of the box crap out there (Mac and Cheese, etc), which is less than a dollar per box.  Its very cheap, very fast, and filling.  I don't disagree with what you are saying - that people don't care - but it really is a combo of both.  As I said earlier, I think its far more telling when plenty of families with incomes to support a healthy lifestyle still don't eat well, and that is also incredibly common. 

Yeah, that's what I get for not reading the whole thread before responding.  I need to do that.

My own gripe about our local school district is that they cut the school budget for food in order to put more into other things, but then complain they aren't getting enough from the Feds.  Schools get federal dollars for school lunch programs, and now over the years tend to rely only upon those.  If parents want schools to provide better lunches, then they need to pony up to pay for it - but that means also paying for the free-lunchers.  Most parents who care about what their kids eat, though, would rather just send their kid to school with lunch than get involved with trying to enhance the school lunch program.  

The attempts at my kids' elementary school - adding a salad bar, removing chocolate milk, offering healthier alternatives - meant a lot of food went into the trash.  Kids just wouldn't eat their apples and carrots or drink their white milk.  You can offer it, but it doesn't mean kids will eat it.  Then the district hired a very expensive nutrition expert from the Chez Panisse Foundation to advise it, but the food didn't improve flavor-wise, at least as far as the kids were concerned.

Maybe we should lower our expectations about what schools provide.  Or maybe we should use schools to educate.

I took a cooking class in junior high (and a sewing class - yes, I'm a fossil).  I don't understand why what used to be called Home Ec was taken out of our educational system.  There are no cooking classes at any of our local public schools.  

I recall hearing proposals back then about replacing Home Ec with "Life Skills" classes that taught basic things like how to shop and cook, write a check (ok so that one no longer applies), keep a household budget, sew a button and so on.  Perhaps these ought to be brought back in, along with Drivers Ed (which is now not in school either).

[Malakili]

I recall hearing proposals back then about replacing Home Ec with "Life Skills" classes that taught basic things like how to shop and cook, write a check (ok so that one no longer applies), keep a household budget, sew a button and so on.  Perhaps these ought to be brought back in, along with Drivers Ed (which is now not in school either).

I had to take a course like this as well, actually at least 2 of them I think, though I think my district branded it as "home and careers."  We had some simple sewing projects, simple cooking projects, a lot of useless crap too I might add, but basically it was "how to do basic shit that you should know how to do."  I was kind of neutral to it at the time (didn't really care about the material, but it was so easy that I was just like...whatever).  Looking back though, I think I probably learned some useful stuff, and at least it got me to put some minor thought into those things.  Same with shop class - I haven't used those skills in a long time, but I feel like its useful to know how to use a wide range of power tools.

Anyway, it seems like I didn't have a real "health" class until 7th grade or so, and by that time I think you've lose your window for a lot of kids.  If, when they were real young, you started that stuff in school you'd get them to think of it as normal to think about food, and that would carry over.  Hell, even if they end up eating crap, they at least have some perspective on it.

[Mrbloodworth]

Episode 2 is up for streaming.

[hal]

Ok, This thread is all over the place. But if it gets one person to think about your eating habits it will be so worth it so here we go. All historical human diets are based on carbs. Period. No argument. Rice, wheat, ry, corn, potatoes. Given that if you chose to eat anything you need a little meat in your diet. A little, this is where americans and others get it wrong. You dont want that 16 oz steak, you dont need that. Any doctor will tell you to eat as varied a diet as possible. Fruits are awsome for you and veggies are to die for. I was gonna go on and on about dried beans but just consider its a veggie, its 3\4 of a meat and it has fiber and its a carb and the stuff is so cheap you can use it for landfill. What is the prob exactaly? I cant quit editing. Ok eggs are magic. Want to know why the dinosouars died? Eggs are magic.

[lamaros]

Just a bit of a tangent, to something Haem said: Processed supermarket food tastes like shit. Or at least it does to me, someone who grew up eating brown rice and beans and miso soup, and had parents who didn't let him eat processed food and sugars.

I haven't been a vegetarian eating such a nutjob diet for over 15 years, but I am still very sensitive to rich foods (like chocolate cake) and meats. I have a physical response to a lot of stuff that my body isn't as familiar with as other (can't eat any pig, can't eat meat pies, cream and dairy heavy stuff makes me feel ugh etc).

Point is: Diet and habit are very very hard to change, and expecting the bodies of children to be able to happily adjust between different food at school at home is a big thing. You're not gong to get kids who grew up on the reverse diet to mine to enjoy 'healthy' lunches just by getting Jamie to stick his head in, you need the parents to address fundamental changes - which can be very very hard.

I think targeting schools is a futile exercise to be honest, but perhaps in terms of raising awareness it is a good trigger point.

[Evildrider]

Jamie Oliver is just a douche.  I have no problems with feeding kids better foods.. but that doesn't make him likeable.

[Goumindong]

Ok, This thread is all over the place. But if it gets one person to think about your eating habits it will be so worth it so here we go. All historical human diets are based on carbs. Period. No argument. Rice, wheat, ry, corn, potatoes. Given that if you chose to eat anything you need a little meat in your diet. A little, this is where americans and others get it wrong. You dont want that 16 oz steak, you dont need that. Any doctor will tell you to eat as varied a diet as possible. Fruits are awsome for you and veggies are to die for. I was gonna go on and on about dried beans but just consider its a veggie, its 3\4 of a meat and it has fiber and its a carb and the stuff is so cheap you can use it for landfill. What is the prob exactaly? I cant quit editing. Ok eggs are magic. Want to know why the dinosouars died? Eggs are magic.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Carbohydrates are only a recent development. Humans have been living for thousands of years before agriculture came around. And before that we hunted (and gathered)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Steak? No problem. Protean and fat is no problem. Its the carbs that are killing us(high fiber carbs such as whole veggies/fruits notwithstanding). Want to know why poor people are fat? They can't afford food that isn't loaded up with extra carbs.  Want to know why they're fatter in the U.S.? We subsidize corn syrup so we can add more of it to everything.

[Margalis]

Bit of a tangent. Today I went to Whole Foods and bought some food. This was the discussion at the checkout counter:

Checkout Girl: "What is this?" (Looking at pastry bag)
Me: "A chocolate chip cookie."
Checkout Girl: "And what is this?"
Me: "A grapefruit."

How do you work at a supermarket and not know what a friggin grapefruit is?

[Arthur_Parker]

Jamie Oliver is just a douche.  I have no problems with feeding kids better foods.. but that doesn't make him likeable.

His wife is worse.

[Malakili]

Ok, This thread is all over the place. But if it gets one person to think about your eating habits it will be so worth it so here we go. All historical human diets are based on carbs. Period. No argument. Rice, wheat, ry, corn, potatoes. Given that if you chose to eat anything you need a little meat in your diet. A little, this is where americans and others get it wrong. You dont want that 16 oz steak, you dont need that. Any doctor will tell you to eat as varied a diet as possible. Fruits are awsome for you and veggies are to die for. I was gonna go on and on about dried beans but just consider its a veggie, its 3\4 of a meat and it has fiber and its a carb and the stuff is so cheap you can use it for landfill. What is the prob exactaly? I cant quit editing. Ok eggs are magic. Want to know why the dinosouars died? Eggs are magic.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Carbohydrates are only a recent development. Humans have been living for thousands of years before agriculture came around. And before that we hunted (and gathered)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Steak? No problem. Protean and fat is no problem. Its the carbs that are killing us(high fiber carbs such as whole veggies/fruits notwithstanding). Want to know why poor people are fat? They can't afford food that isn't loaded up with extra carbs.  Want to know why they're fatter in the U.S.? We subsidize corn syrup so we can add more of it to everything.

Ok Dr. Atkins.