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Author Topic: Buying a new car, need some advice  (Read 39690 times)
Quinton
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Reply #35 on: April 18, 2011, 08:38:17 AM

I did the new car thing last car and had a great experience with it.  11 years later I traded it in when I bought another new car.  Hopefully this one will get a solid 8+ years of use as well.

I definitely agree that buying new is questionable if you're expecting to sell it in a couple years, might as well look for something 1-2 years old in good shape for a better value.
KallDrexx
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Reply #36 on: April 18, 2011, 08:42:41 AM

Out of curiosity, why does everyone say buying new isn't a bad deal as long as you keep it for a long time?  Wouldn't you get the same benefit if you just bought it a few years old and still ran it to the ground?

I mean, I bought my car new but I also plan to be driving it 8 years from now (and I got 1% APR).  I'm just curious on people's reasons for it being more worth the money than a used car kept for a similar amount of time.
Quinton
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Reply #37 on: April 18, 2011, 09:11:46 AM

For me, it was more that I liked getting a car in factory condition, never been dinged up, abused, smoked in, whatever, under original warranty with no uncertainty.  Getting the best possible deal (from a purely monetary standpoint) was not the highest priority.  I got 11 years of enjoyable and pain-free use out of the vehicle, with no major expenses, only replacing parts that I expected to need replacing (tires, windshield wipers, eventually had brake work done), except for the alternator that died around year 10.

I don't want to run a vehicle in the ground -- I probably could have gotten quite a bit more use out of the old car, just finally decided to upgrade to something more wagon than coupe, the better to haul people or stuff around as needed.
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Reply #38 on: April 18, 2011, 09:23:00 AM

Gotcha.  I was the same way about having a pure-untouched vehicle.  Then my car got hit 2 days after buying it brand new (with a $7500 repair bill to my insurance cause the douchebag drove away)
Quinton
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Reply #39 on: April 18, 2011, 09:38:00 AM

That's always the risk, sadly.  I got backed into about a year after buying the last car.  She was clearly at fault, some friends of mine happened to be walking back from lunch and took some pictures documenting the incident, and after two short phone calls ("I hear you were involved in an incident with one of our insured?" "Yes, she backed into me in a parking lot") and a visit from an adjuster, her insurance company covered all costs (about $2500).  The auto body place did a great job of putting things back together and afterwards it was pretty much impossible to tell that anything had ever happened, but it was still sad that somebody messed up my poor car.
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Reply #40 on: April 18, 2011, 10:00:37 AM

I've only owned one car, but I've had it for 14 years now. I'm looking to get a new one myself (I own a 1997 Mustang GT) and I'm thinking about upgrading to one of these:


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Reply #41 on: April 18, 2011, 10:04:58 AM

Jeep Wrangler Rubicon.
Good truck, though Jeep's taking some hits for QC lately. I would recommend the Toyota FJ, of course, but being tall might be an issue (I'm 6' and have to stop about a car-length from the stop line to see the traffic signal). Not a big deal to me, because otherwise it's wicked comfortable, moreso than the Rav4 I tested. If mileage is a big deal you're probably in the same boat as the Jeep, I get around 18/23 with the FJ, but I learned to drive from a NASCAR driver  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Really nice in 4WD in the winter, and 2WD in the summer.

I also like Jimbo's idea of the classic Bronco. I think my next purchase will be something like that for the winter and then (depending on gas prices!) either a classic muscle car or a mini cooper/smart car for summer. Hopefully that decision is about ten-fifteen years away.

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Reply #42 on: April 18, 2011, 10:43:03 AM

Out of curiosity, why does everyone say buying new isn't a bad deal as long as you keep it for a long time?  Wouldn't you get the same benefit if you just bought it a few years old and still ran it to the ground?

Buying a car new means you start out with all the major systems at 0 miles, when they generally will need to be replaced or require serious maintenance between 60,000 and 100,000.  If you aren't putting on that many miles every year, you can get 8 years out of a new car with virtually no problems easily.  Hell, many new cars come with some pretty extended warranties.

Essentially, you are making up on the backend with reduced upkeep and maintenance costs what you paid on the front end.  Many sites will put a 5 year cost of upkeep for a car purchase, and you can see the large difference.


If you're married/have multiple vehicles and you have a good mechanic who doesn't soak you, buying only used cars can easily be a better deal.
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Reply #43 on: April 18, 2011, 10:56:26 AM

The other thing to think about on 4 wheel drives, is do you really need them?  I usually go out to my mom and dad's farm, so I can semi-justify it (although the idea of a hybrid ford escape sound appealing, I hate automatics), but how often will you be engaging the transfer case?

Oh yeah the only thing dependable on a jeep is the inline 6 engine  Grin  I've had all kinds of shit break and have to fix things, i.e. that damn carter carb was the fucking devil's daughter and all the god damn hoses!  Was so glad to go to a clifford carb, plus depending on where your vehicle is from you have to play chase the rust monster around a lot.  The cool part is usually you and a buddy can fix the shit that breaks, like the alternator starts to whine, so we took it apart, repacked the bearings, and it got me threw until the newer one got purchased.  Don't buy a jeep unless you like to tinker, well the TJ's are a ton better quality than the YJ's and CJ's, can't say on the newer ones.

An older Ford Bronco would be sweet with the 1974 being the sweet spot if you can find one, has the stronger axles and upgraded steering and brakes, just a bear to find in decent condition that isn't expensive.  IH Scout II's are way cool, but good luck finding them, same with dodge power wagons or older FJ's.  I'm not a big fan of IFS (independent front suspension--swing axles) since I do low speed 4 wheeling, but if going fast you can't beat how they can handle the speed and keep you going, just remember it is a bear to work on that suspension (well not as bad as the 80's and 90's since more people make and work on them now).

I like the new Honda CR-Z and the Mini Cooper Convertible, but with my kid and his friends and all the other crap, it would be hard to get around, would end up borrowing my dad's pickup even more.

Nissan makes some pretty nice pickup trucks with 4 doors, just depends on if you need the 5 passenger and an open bed or closed bed.
Morat20
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Reply #44 on: April 18, 2011, 11:55:13 AM

Can't speak for a good car for snow (now floods, maybe!), but I'd echo the statements on roomy interiors.

DON'T limit your choices to what you "think" you can fit into. I'm 6'1", 270, and my wife's Beetle has so much interior room I don't even put the seat all the way back. (Mostly, but not all the way). I've sat in SUV's that didn't have enough leg or head-room for me -- interior size and dimensions vary more than you'd think.

Look at the best cars/SUVs/Trucks for what you're wanting to do -- mileage, driving conditions, how much you generally pack into your vehicle, etc. I'd also check with people who actually drive them in the conditions you're looking at -- especially if you are looking at an SUV -- it honestly seems like half the 4WD and such options are for people who will never use them, and their handling sucks in those modes because most people who buy the thing won't ever use it.

Narrow it down to the best four or five and THEN go sit in them and see if leg-room and head-room and all that is an issue. Hell, Carmax is surprisingly good for that -- they tend to have so many makes and models that you can go there, ignore the sales pitches, and sit in a dozen different vehicles by a dozen different companies and get a feel for what does and doesn't work.

Although the one car I did buy through there I got a good deal on, and was pretty happy with the service -- but that was eight years ago.
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Reply #45 on: April 18, 2011, 12:49:32 PM

You've never driven in a place with hills have you? Yea tires always matter most, but you need tires and four wheels turning to get up hills.
Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, Washington state.  Yes, I have driven on snowy roads that went over hills and mountains, in fact that's what I learned on.  If FWD and chains won't get you up it, you probably don't want to go down the other side, anyway.

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Reply #46 on: April 18, 2011, 01:36:58 PM

I'm all for the used car thing, unless you're buying a hybrid. Not about to go without a full warranty etc. on hybrid batteries.

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Viin
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Reply #47 on: April 18, 2011, 04:28:50 PM

As for buying a car, I found my experience with a car broker (from a local firm that's been around 10+ years) to be great, even when buying new. Buying used would be even better.

- Viin
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Reply #48 on: April 18, 2011, 04:57:18 PM

Myself, I never buy brand new cars, even when I can afford to buy them with cash.  Let somebody else take the depreciation for driving it off the lot.

This is the best advice in the thread.

You always run a chance of an idiot PO. People that lease (75% of all 2-4 year old used cars) are very rarely take good care of their rides.

Quote
Out of curiosity, why does everyone say buying new isn't a bad deal as long as you keep it for a long time?  Wouldn't you get the same benefit if you just bought it a few years old and still ran it to the ground?

Mainly, because you can properly break-in car and can stay on top of maintenance from 0 miles, so you can drive nicer car for longer period of time. I for example, buy new cars and go extreme with maintenance - fully synthetic oil, below-recommended fluid changes, treat leather, service brakes,  don't park it outside, do rust prevention and so on. 2-4 years of quick-lube shops, no rust protection on salted roads, spill soda on gearshifter can do quite a number on longevity of your car. Plus there are some "lifetime fluid" gimmicks that industry doing (thankfully on the way out) that results in damage when people fail to change transmission oil or coolant on time.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 05:07:59 PM by sinij »

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Reply #49 on: April 18, 2011, 05:50:11 PM

Oh to go with the new car advice, leasing is a terrible idea.

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Reply #50 on: April 18, 2011, 08:03:02 PM

Oh to go with the new car advice, leasing is a terrible idea.

I thought it was better if you were a business for tax purposes or something.

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Reply #51 on: April 18, 2011, 11:59:56 PM

I like buying new.  My last 3 cars have been new.  If I had to buy used because I didn't have the money for new then I would (or I suppose if I was looking for a particular year of something).  Otherwise, I'd rather have it at zero miles and have my ass sweat be the first ass sweat on it.  We did briefly consider used for the vehicle class we were looking at, but for the actual one we settled on, used was an impossibility.

The SUV (X3) I got a month ago had 3 miles on it when we drove it home.   Yahoo!  Great ride so far.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 12:01:36 AM by Rasix »

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Reply #52 on: April 19, 2011, 12:13:46 AM

I like buying new.  My last 3 cars have been new.  If I had to buy used because I didn't have the money for new then I would (or I suppose if I was looking for a particular year of something).  Otherwise, I'd rather have it at zero miles and have my ass sweat be the first ass sweat on it.  We did briefly consider used for the vehicle class we were looking at, but for the actual one we settled on, used was an impossibility.

The SUV (X3) I got a month ago had 3 miles on it when we drove it home.   Yahoo!  Great ride so far.

I'm the same way, plus there's the peace of mind of being covered under warranty for the duration of your financing.

On that note, I just took home a new car.
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track.  It's a little more extroverted than I'm used to, but I really wanted a proper RWD car this time.

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #53 on: April 19, 2011, 12:54:34 AM

For a lot less than the depreciation over the first few years of ownership, I can buy a gold-plated extended warranty on a used car.

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Reply #54 on: April 19, 2011, 05:37:11 AM

I just buy used cars that still have the factory warranty and buy the same extended warranty.  Spent 15k on a 25k car and I'm ok with that.  The only major repairs I've had to deal with were my own damn fault because I didn't see the gravel on the road that slid me into that Jeep.  awesome, for real

Really, in the days of CarFax, certified used and 3rd party warranties the whole "omg I don't want to inherit someone else's problems" thing is largely fluff and ego.

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TheWalrus
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Reply #55 on: April 19, 2011, 05:48:28 AM

Really, in the days of CarFax, certified used and 3rd party warranties the whole "omg I don't want to inherit someone else's problems" thing is largely fluff and ego.

Bullshit. Just sayin.

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Reply #56 on: April 19, 2011, 09:02:00 AM


On that note, I just took home a new car.
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track.  It's a little more extroverted than I'm used to, but I really wanted a proper RWD car this time.

Man, I looked pretty seriously at those before I went with the car I bought. They are a really sweet car. Congrats.

Have you tried the internet? It's made out of millions of people missing the point of everything and then getting angry about it
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Reply #57 on: April 19, 2011, 09:31:27 AM

Man, I looked pretty seriously at those before I went with the car I bought. They are a really sweet car. Congrats.

Thanks!  It's kinda tough babying it through the break-in process - I want to just wind it out on a nice stretch of road and listen to the engine howl.  :P

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Reply #58 on: April 19, 2011, 09:34:29 AM

a little more extroverted than I'm used to
awesome, for real

I got the 7yr/70k mile platinum warranty for wicked cheap. I wanted a service contract that would outlast the payments, given a couple incidents with my fiancee's car. The payments are certainly annoying - can't afford a new pc for another couple years....but it's half paid off now!

I also do the undercarriage treatment, salt is a bitch. The service guys actually need to be told to perform all the maintenance listed in the book, they go by miles and I go by time (I put about 6.5k a year on it).


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Reply #59 on: April 19, 2011, 01:43:02 PM

For a lot less than the depreciation over the first few years of ownership, I can buy a gold-plated extended warranty on a used car.

--Dave

Wasn't possible on a Prius 4 years ago when I bought mine. I am led to believe that depreciation is still quite low on them.

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Ghambit
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Reply #60 on: April 19, 2011, 01:51:41 PM

Oh to go with the new car advice, leasing is a terrible idea.

You sir are quite wrong.
The only time leasing DOESNT make sense is on cars that dont depreciate or do-so very little, you drive a helluva lot of miles per year, or you have some sick fascination with maintaining/owning a car for more than 5 yrs.

In regards to low depreciation for cars like the new Prius, their leases are so attractive that it's still smart to lease one if you can get by the down payment (which is easy enough if you use a leasing broker or do some extra haggling.)
The keys are $0 down payment and leases that include maintenance.

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Reply #61 on: April 19, 2011, 02:05:54 PM

I could weigh in on the lease v. own cost/benefit from a financial and tax perspective, but it's technical accounting shit and I'm not sure anybody really wants to go that deep down the rabbithole unless prompted.

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Morat20
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Reply #62 on: April 19, 2011, 02:17:33 PM

Wasn't possible on a Prius 4 years ago when I bought mine. I am led to believe that depreciation is still quite low on them.
During the oil shock right before the recession, there effectively wasn't one. The demand for the car was high enough that used models were going for almost as much as new ones.

Way too much demand, not enough supply. I luckily didn't buy mine until about three months later, when the recession had hit and gas prices fell -- dealerships had a lot of excess inventory at that point.
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Reply #63 on: April 19, 2011, 02:47:28 PM

There was also something I recall about the warranties for used cards specifically on the hybrid batteries being ridiculously expensive.

On why leasing is bad (I'm not saying there aren't certain circumstances where it is a good deal), there are a bunch of reasons:

- You owe money without any collateral. If you end up being unable to pay for a car you bought, they take the car back. If you end up being unable to pay for a leased car, they take the car back and you're still on the hook to satisfy whatever the myriad conditions for getting out of the lease that you signed are. Both situations suck, but getting stuck holding a lease contract sucks more. This may not come up often, but bad shit can and does happen and if you lose your job or something it is usually better to be stuck with a car loan you can't pay off than a lease you can't. But hey there's usually some painful fee you can pay to get out of the lease early.

- Leases also almost always have mileage limits beyond which they charge you extra, and these limits are set low enough to come into play if you're really using the car regularly (and if you're not, you REALLY should just buy used.) The mileage limit is typically 12,000/year at the most. If you drive more than that (and most people do - I have a very short commute and only occasional trips of an hour-ish, and I put about 15k/year on my car) you are probably going to get bent over on the mileage charges. 20 cents a mile or whatever it is at these days adds up.

- When you get to the end of it, you have jack shit to trade in on the next one. You just keep paying full price, forever. If you buy the car, you pay a similar amount of money but at the end of it you have A CAR that you can trade in on the next one. In most cases when talking about a new car and a 5 year period (personally I can't see myself replacing my car more often than every 10 years, YMMV) the savings on the trade in for the next car will certainly exceed any savings there might be between a lease payment and a loan payment (its even better if you bought the car outright) especially if you are prone to fucking yourself on the mileage limits frequently.

- Probably there are several other reasons that I missed.

I'm sure there are certain tax situations where it makes sense, like if you can write the whole thing off as a business expense. I am also pretty sure you can write off depreciation, though, so always check with your local Paelos imo. Basically leasing is great... if you are a car dealer. You get to people pay for most of the cost of a new car, and at the end you get the car back to sell as a used car to someone else.

I guess if you had 2 years to live or something it would make a certain amount of sense.

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Ghambit
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Reply #64 on: April 19, 2011, 03:24:14 PM

Heh, in a normal car loan you still essentially owe money w/o any collateral.  This is why you're lucky to get a decent loan rate at a 5 yr. loan (banks really dont give a shit about using your car as collateral).  At which point you'd likely have spent over $30k for a $20k car.  Literally $10k is down the drain at the end of your loan period, not including depreciation on the car, taxes, maintenance, etc.

Also, leased cars are extremely easy to transfer/swap these days (info. travels much faster than 10+ yrs ago)... sometimes even at a profit (if you've got a car at high demand like the Prius).  Typically a dealer/broker will gladly take the car back if it means they can re-lease or sell it for more.  Now, if you OWNED the car you're pretty much immediately underwater on the loan, which means even selling it doesnt help you really.  Defaulting and getting it repoed doesnt mean you're free and clear either.

As for "trading in" (and getting crap for trade-in value) and buying new and all that nonsense.  Rarely does a car last you 5 yrs.  You can perpetually buy new or even used likely every 5 years and get killed in down payments and finance charges if you'd like... but to me perpetually paying a measly $250/month on a $40k car with free maintenance is a lot smarter.

(shrug)
Really, the only argument is mileage.  I never go over 10k/year in my cars and I've got no time to worry about bullshit carloans and maintenance so for me a lease is smart.
If I was daddy warbucks and could afford to put 50% down+repairs/warranty obviously that's a different story.

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Reply #65 on: April 19, 2011, 03:44:16 PM

Nobody uses bank loans for buying new cars. I'm paying more than anyone I know at 1.9% APR, one person here is paying .9%, the other is paying no interest. A bank loan when I bought my truck in 2008 would've been around 11%.

I don't know what kind of vehicles you're driving that won't last 5 years, you need to look into better quality, son!

[edit]If I sold my truck for its Blue Book value right now (2 and a half years later), I'd walk away with $6k in my pocket. Buy a vehicle people want, with a solid reliability rating.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 03:54:23 PM by Sky »

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Reply #66 on: April 19, 2011, 03:50:56 PM

I'm not sure what planet he's posting from.

Cars that last under 5 years?  50% down? Huh?

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Reply #67 on: April 19, 2011, 04:11:02 PM

I can only assume that on his planet the acidic atmosphere destroys cars at a faster rate than we experience here on Earth.

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Reply #68 on: April 19, 2011, 04:42:00 PM

Well, I know plenty of people that don't own the same car for more than five years so maybe he meant that instead of it breaking down into dust. I still wouldn't call it a rarity, though.

I've had my car for seven years now and am looking to buy something soon. Not much more than five but then again it's a '96.

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Reply #69 on: April 19, 2011, 05:29:51 PM

Arguing leases are worse than buying a car is like arguing renting is worse than buying a house.
Neither are always true.
If you like being in a new car every 2 to 3 years due to work (driving clients around etc) which is shorter than the industry average of 5-6 (which covers 95% of owners), then leasing is for you.
If you are able to maintenance covered (which is still rare when buying), then leasing is for you.
If you arent able to save a significant down payment and cant afford normal monthly payments without the down payment, then leases are for you.
Finally if you are a company and want to simply turn the keys over at the end of 3 years and have new vehicles delivered for your corporation, leasing is for you.

Is it easier to get raped by the sales people when leasing, more so then buying? Yes. Caveat Emptor.
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