Preview of 1.2 - Lots of awesome changes and fixes

[kaid]

I switched to a riftblade/paragon spec just to be able to keep up or range kill marksmen.  It's working quite well.

Ah yeah, I've been playing as a rogue (up to 47 now), and when I use my MM role (primarily in the Black Garden), it is Riftblade warriors and Nightblade rogues who give me the most trouble.

Other than that, MM is crazy powerful in warfronts - Rapid Fire Shot does a good amount of burst, and the spammable dispel is just silly.

I concur I was playing sab specs for a long time but at 50 they just seems to hit to lightly to be useful so I made a 44/22/0 marksman assassin infil build. Its hell on wheels rapid fire shot has been letting me kill 2 or sometimes three people in its duration and you can do it twice in a row if you need to. Last night on a few bg I was getting double the number of killing blows of most people.

Its a very fun pvp build because its VERY VERY mobile and I still have improved stealth so I can get myself set up into position to rain down death on my targets.

[Threash]

Speaking from a WoW perspective, losing your 10th matchup for a night getting like 1/5 what a win could be just makes you want to stop playing all together.  So I did.

It's not a fifth though, it's closer to half.

[Falconeer]

1.
No incentive for open world PVP and no real game mechanics

2.
No competitively ranked warfronts (by guild or team) per server cluster

Right on!
I have a hard time ignoring this. If something doesn't happen PvP wise by 1.3 I am pretty sure sticking with the game HOPING for something to happen in 1.4 will be pretty hard. At this point I am pretty sure even a simple additional Warfront would help, since repeating the same four maps for months, over and over, can only be that much fun. Not to mention that, once you hit Rank 6 (which many already had) there's really no point in PvPing anymore as there's nothing new or different to do, and you probably already had all the fun you could have from endless repetition in the previous 3 or 4 months.

My guild is heavy on PvP and we are still enjoying it cause there's some more progression to do, but we are already in that phase where guildees start complaining in Voicechat and you "lie" to them about future stuff coming cause "do you really think Trion would just leave PvP like this forever? Of course they are gonna add gameplay, ranks, goals, reasons to fight in the open and more warfronts!" but you are just silencing your own boredom.

[Falconeer]

Speaking from a WoW perspective, losing your 10th matchup for a night getting like 1/5 what a win could be just makes you want to stop playing all together.  So I did.

It's not a fifth though, it's closer to half.

In Rift? More than a half. At level 50 is 600 Prestige for a win and 350 Prestige for a loss. Favor is even closer, you can get up to 90% of what the winner gets if you lose with a close enough score.

[Sky]

an issue for whoever isn't serious

[Xanthippe]

I know I've said this before, but the whole pvp-gear-reward paradigm seems backward.  The better you are, the better gear you can get so you can be even faster at winning.  Same with prestige that you can spend on talents to make it even easier to kill players.

If players were rated or pvp was in a ladder system, this would make sense, but what it does now is to discourage players from warfronts.  (Not completely, of course, but how many warfront games does the brand-new-50 lose before giving up?)

I don't look forward to 50 warfronts on my mage at all.  I might just make a new mage, instead.  

I wonder just how much popularity would drop if players could only receive cosmetic rewards for pvp.

[Dren]

Speaking from a WoW perspective, losing your 10th matchup for a night getting like 1/5 what a win could be just makes you want to stop playing all together.  So I did.

It's not a fifth though, it's closer to half.

In Rift? More than a half. At level 50 is 600 Prestige for a win and 350 Prestige for a loss. Favor is even closer, you can get up to 90% of what the winner gets if you lose with a close enough score.

Then that isn't a big deal really.  With WoW's sytem, if you were doing well at keeping the score close, but getting creamed on the honor kills, you'd come out with something like 25-30 honor while wins normally would net 90+.

[Nebu]

I get between 500-700 honor for losses and as much as 1700 honor when I win.  I also agree that the paradigm is all screwed up in terms of pvp gear.  Gear should never be a reward for pvp.  It should offer titles and maybe some pvp only, utility abilities.  Making good players better only serves to discourage the entry level players even more... though I suppose that the carrot for the entry level players is to one day pwn face like the well-geared folks.  That's just a sad incentive system.

[Jherad]

Just hit 50 with my rogue yesterday - Warfronts are a very different experience now than when I hit 50 with my mage a good while ago. The gear difference is ... noticeable.

I have to look for the characters without fancy looking gear to attack (unless I'm just debuffing as a MM). A high rank character can essentially ignore me as I unload on them - I won't get them past 2/3rds health before I run out of burst. I was expecting the gear divide gap to not hit for another month or so, heh. Oh well. 

Had a lot of fun in the 40-49 bracket. Wish I could have stayed there (ignoring the reality that it would have merely led to twinking).

[Falconeer]

Post 50 PvP is all all ALL about focusfiring the MA target. The sooner you vanquish them (meaning 1 to 2 seconds) the better your chances to win. Everything else seems naive at the moment unless you are a healer (where you might have to choose who to heal unless you are on the pointman) or an assassin. Everyone else has to assst on the MA and focusfocusfocus movemovemove like a swarm of locusts. So yeah, very different experience which is gonan turn so many players away unless they are in a big, organized guild with charismatic people who can lead a warfront regardless the lack of voice communication. That's because at the moment is very rare to see pvp pugs organize themselves in the pre-match and elect a MA and stuff. Usually, unless you face a similarly disorganized party, that means you are gonna get creamed.

Simply put, if you don't focus, unless you have MASSIVE spike damage and you pick the only opponent player who isn't being healed cause he sucks, you are not gonna kill much, no matter the class. And this is only getting worse with everyone learning their tricks and pvp-gearing themselves up.

[Nebu]

Quick pvp tips.

1) use target's target on someone that knows what they're doing. 

2) Learn the names of key spells and interrupt them

3) Purge HOTs off of targets

4) Catch people that overextend beyond the range of healing

5) Use LoS to your advantage

[waffel]

Just can't get over how terrible the PvP is in this game. With every class having 30 abilities, it turns into nothing but a button spamming shitfest. Forcing classes to make macros containing 10 abilities, clerics running around spamming insta heals and shields while being beat on, some classes randomly hitting you for 3k damage.

Open world PvP is few and far between, and you get bitched at for attacking the other realm half the time. Warfronts are gimmicky jokes just like in Warhammer.

I guess I'm old school, but I never saw a reason for the 'Warhammer' PvP system (which this has) over the DAoC PvP system (10 abilities per class, not 30. Interrupts. etc.)

Then to think I have to pick the right spec for my rogue to PvP effectively, and then deal with premade curbstompers until I farm up my PvP gear...?

Yeah, I guess I just don't understand MMOs anymore. Is rolling your head on your keyboard spamming 30 abilities that fun?

[Draegan]

Please list these 30 abilities.

[Nebu]

I guess I'm old school, but I never saw a reason for the 'Warhammer' PvP system (which this has) over the DAoC PvP system (10 abilities per class, not 30. Interrupts. etc.)

Odd that you'd say this.  Playing DAoC, I had FAR more buttons to manage in pvp than I do in Rift.  I had my abilities, RR abilities, gear abilities, ML abilities, etc.  I had to hotkey a shitload of stuff in DAoC.  In Rift, I rarely use more than 8 keys in PvP without macros.  Granted, there are a few classes (shaman for example) that do benefit from macros to manage reactionaries. 

[waffel]

Let see,
My rogue had 1 macro that had:
Charge
Auto attack ability
Follow up to auto attack
Disarm
Evade reactionary
Parry reactionary
Some other shit

Then I had 5+ finishers to choose from between various classes
4 different kinds of blinks which I just macrod with some of the finishers
I had 5 different buffs I had to cast every time I died/60 minutes were up
An AOE ability
An AOE ability on a 2 minute cooldown
An AOE ability taunt
Single target mez
Ranged silience
4 different 2-minute buffs I could cast that shared a cooldown
Single target taunt
I had my different tracking abilities
I had buttons for my healing potions/life leech potion
I had buttons for my buff potions
Planar abilities
Stealth and its abilities
Countless passive buffs that would go off when I'd parry/evade/finisher/blink

Oh, I also had some other ones I didn't even bother putting on the hotbar.

So yeah, I had an excessive amount of motherfucking abilities. I macrod some, and usually in PvE I would literally spam my 1 key over, and over, and over. I'd spam it so much I'd have to use different fingers.

Odd that you'd say this.  Playing DAoC, I had FAR more buttons to manage in pvp than I do in Rift.  I had my abilities, RR abilities, gear abilities, ML abilities, etc.  I had to hotkey a shitload of stuff in DAoC.  In Rift, I rarely use more than 8 keys in PvP without macros.  Granted, there are a few classes (shaman for example) that do benefit from macros to manage reactionaries. 

When I played daoc there were no gear abilities or ML abilities or catacomb abilities or minotaur abilities, etc.

[waylander]

Quick pvp tips.

1) use target's target on someone that knows what they're doing. 

2) Learn the names of key spells and interrupt them

3) Purge HOTs off of targets

4) Catch people that overextend beyond the range of healing

5) Use LoS to your advantage

Set Focus Target and create an assist macro works too, but that's a good list there.

[Nebu]

Waffel,

Most of the abilities you list can be elminated with some parsing.  You'll find that many of the abilities from outside your main soul will only be used as utility rather than in a main rotation.  In other words, many of the combat abilities you have available to you never get used because in doing so, you decrease your dps.  Rift creates the illusion of choice. 

For example, I have a 34/32 elementalist/Storm mage.  While I have a bajillion dps abilities at my disposal, I can maximize my single target dps with about 5 keys or my ae dps with 3.  The rest of my keys I keep for cooldowns that I use in "oh shit" moments. 

Take a look at your abilities sometime and see which are inefficient to use in terms of utility or dps output.  It helps a lot.

[Ingmar]

Any post that is nostalgic for DAOC's casting/interrupt system I pretty much dismiss out of hand.

[Nebu]

Any post that is nostalgic for DAOC's casting/interrupt system I pretty much dismiss out of hand.

I don't know if I'd go this far.  While flawed in many ways, the DAoC system did contain strategic pvp elements that haven't been improved since.  Then again, my favorite toons to play were skalds and shamen, both expert interrupters in pvp.  Yes, I do agree that pushback is a better mechanism than outright interruption. 

It is difficult to balance melee and ranged classes in PvP.  That much is true.

[waffel]

Any post that is nostalgic for DAOC's casting/interrupt system I pretty much dismiss out of hand.

Weird, I spent most of my DAoC career playing mages and archers. I'd rather not kill a cleric because I got interrupted than not kill a cleric because the cleric is chainhealing all my damage while bunny hopping with full mana.

[Falconeer]

Any post that is nostalgic for DAOC's casting/interrupt system I pretty much dismiss out of hand.

Weird, I spent most of my DAoC career playing mages and archers. I'd rather not kill a cleric because I got interrupted than not kill a cleric because the cleric is chainhealing all my damage while bunny hopping with full mana.

This is true. I don't know what they could have done differently, but the fact that so many souls/classes have no chance to outdamage so many healers, or even just have them run out of mana, is annoying as hell. Actually some clerics cannot be harassed by two players focusing on them, and start having issues only with three or more. Some more interrupting or mana management issues wouldn't hurt in my opinion...

[Nebu]

This is true. I don't know what they could have done differently, but the fact that so many souls/classes have no chance to outdamage so many healers, or even just have them run out of mana, is annoying as hell. Actually some clerics cannot be harassed by two players focusing on them, and start having issues only with three or more. Some more interrupting or mana management issues wouldn't hurt in my opinion...

I thought there were several abilities that reduced healing by 50%.  Are these buried in souls noone wants to play?

[Falconeer]

Sadly, no they are not. As a champion/paragon I cut their healing in half by scoring a crit, and that happens every other hit. Still, and this drives me NUTS, it doesn't seem to matter that much. I am not a cleric so I don't know how they do it or what spec do they have, but clerics who know what they are doing seem to be able to outheal pretty much everything pretty much forever. Crazy, heh? And I hit hard enough, always in the top 3 DPS of any Warfront (except very long ones where mages or clerics AOE the hell out of everyone).

[waylander]

The Cleric souls in Rift can do it all.  They can out tank the tank, they have ranged healing or DPS, and they have the strongest healing.  A cleric can go full healer, healer-dps hybrid, or straight out DPS. I've seen warfronts where clerics did obscene damage.

Falcon is right though in that it takes 2 DPS classes to focus a cleric down, and sometimes 3 depending on gear/soul/skill setups. Now that is my perspective as a warrior though, and mages also do insane damage.  I'm sure that 1 or 2 mages could certainly burn down a cleric.

It isn't that clerics are a problem, but it has more to do with the Warfront matchmaker.  It only looks for warm bodies to put in each warfront, and doesn't try to handle class balance at all. So when you have 3 healers and the other team has 8, then you are at a bid disadvantage. You can't live long enough to do anything to the other team.

Stormcaller is the FOTM in Warfronts, Pyros are still prevalent, and Rogues are everywhere now.

[Threash]

No, clerics are clearly a problem.  I've had warfronts against high prestige clerics were it takes at least 5 dps beating on them for quite a while to bring them down.  Warfront queues don't have matchmaking, they are first come first served, waiting for a balanced team would make them insanely long.  Make a group if you want to balance it yourself.

[Shatter]

Can definitely confirm clerics are a bitch to kill.  Im rank 5 pvp and unless I use silence as an opener and get fell blades on them quickly they will just heal through everything I put at them.  Even with fell blades up they often still can anyhow and thats a 50% healing reduction.  Valor is broken essentially when it comes to healers.  Give a cleric 30-40% dmg reduction while they still heal for high amounts means lol clownshow of people chasing after someone they cant kill.  Saw a cleric yesterday with 3 rogues on him and he still had time to type "loltickletickle" while healing through it all. 

[Nebu]

The Cleric souls in Rift can do it all.  They can out tank the tank, they have ranged healing or DPS, and they have the strongest healing.  A cleric can go full healer, healer-dps hybrid, or straight out DPS. I've seen warfronts where clerics did obscene damage.

This is very true.  I know it's not pvp, but I'm in a steady group that has 3 clerics.  Clerics are great single target burst healers.  Clerics can do outstanding dps.  Clerics make great tanks that can take damage, but also cleanse and purge.  The class is so versatile, that you could do all of the T2's with a group of clerics.  You can't say that about any other class.

[Threash]

It's not just the valor, their pvp soul is incredibly good unlike warriors or rogues.  Same with mages actually.

[Nebu]

It's not just the valor, their pvp soul is incredibly good unlike warriors or rogues.  Same with mages actually.

I'm not all that impressed with my pvp soul as a mage.  Then again, I play a chloro in the warfronts most of the time.  What kills me is that for all of the complaints about clerics, I rarely am in a warfront with another healer.  I know this because I often see 3 heal-marked clerics in the raid frames and play a stormcaller.  After 4 deaths without a single heal, I inevitably go back to chloro. 

[Shatter]

Actually I decided today to start a cleric.  The versatility is huge and TBH until they fix pugs vs premades I dont feel like doing Warfronts anymore so I guess Ill spend a few weeks and level a new class.  Not sure what Ill do after that...

[waylander]

Actually I decided today to start a cleric.  The versatility is huge and TBH until they fix pugs vs premades I dont feel like doing Warfronts anymore so I guess Ill spend a few weeks and level a new class.  Not sure what Ill do after that...

Yeah I'm basically rerolling a cleric too because they can do anything, and like someone said earlier a group of 5 clerics can take all content short of 10+ man RAID encounters. I'd be willing to bet that a 10 cleric or 20 cleric RAID could probably clear the content.

[Shatter]

One of the reasons I was debating on rolling a cleric was because of what I saw the last time I ran my dailies.  I was going Bard spec'd keeping in mind I have rank 5 pvp gear so Im not wearing garbage.  One of the dailies was to kill some elites and I can do it bard specd but need virtuoso.  Next to me was a cleric who was going through elite mobs like nothing and didnt even get close to dying.  He might as well of been killing non-elites.  Things that make you go hmmmm

[Draegan]

Let see,
My rogue had 1 macro that had:
Charge
Auto attack ability
Follow up to auto attack
Disarm
Evade reactionary
Parry reactionary
Some other shit

Then I had 5+ finishers to choose from between various classes
4 different kinds of blinks which I just macrod with some of the finishers
I had 5 different buffs I had to cast every time I died/60 minutes were up
An AOE ability
An AOE ability on a 2 minute cooldown
An AOE ability taunt
Single target mez
Ranged silience
4 different 2-minute buffs I could cast that shared a cooldown
Single target taunt
I had my different tracking abilities
I had buttons for my healing potions/life leech potion
I had buttons for my buff potions
Planar abilities
Stealth and its abilities
Countless passive buffs that would go off when I'd parry/evade/finisher/blink

Oh, I also had some other ones I didn't even bother putting on the hotbar.

So yeah, I had an excessive amount of motherfucking abilities. I macrod some, and usually in PvE I would literally spam my 1 key over, and over, and over. I'd spam it so much I'd have to use different fingers.

Half that shit you list is stuff you shouldn't be complaining about.  Consumables?  Buffs?  C'mon dude.  You listed your parry/evade reactionary as two different abilities when it's actually the same ability.  Tracking abilities that are pretty useless?  Why are they even on your hotbar?

Why are you listing autoattack?  What is a follow up to autoattacfk?

Seems like you're also listing abilities that are impossible to have with the same build.  You have a ton of blinks, so high riftstalker, you have a charge and dancing steel so high blade dancer,   You have a ranged silence.  Are you talking about the high ranger silence or weapon barrage?

Are we talking PVP?  Why do you have taunts.  Are we talking PVE?  Are you tanking? DPSing?  Why are you using every finisher when they probably aren't optimal for your build.

Seems like you need a little help with your toon.

[Draegan]

As for PVE clerics, the only thing lacking with their tanking is that they suck tanking magical damage.  They're pretty good with physical damage though. 

[Xanthippe]

As for PVE clerics, the only thing lacking with their tanking is that they suck tanking magical damage.  They're pretty good with physical damage though. 

What doesn't suck tanking magical damage? I don't know how clerics or warriors work - I've only played rogue and mage past 20.

Nebu, I tried making a stormcaller/ele build, but I have a thousand buttons.  I don't even know where to begin.  How did you set up your bars and what don't you use, and what do you use?  In other words, will you please cliffnotes me a quickie guide to stormcaller/ele?