Pen and Paper D&D

[Sheepherder]

Horses eat grass.

If as a DM you want to cut into your adventurer's money a little bit you convince them to do what any other sane person would do if they were fabulously wealthy and known across the land: snort lines of residuum off of a succubi's ass.

[Morat20]

Nope, never had an undead mount.

I didn't want the skeletal mount. The problem with playing this guy was he was one of two "Hey, someone wants in for a session" PC's so he got played by one (or all) of the regulars when there wasn't anyone to take him. Including levelling. Hence the Holy Avenger with no paladin or cleric levels.

Was a fun campaign anyways, even though this guy had shitty luck and a ridiculous build. Was an Al-Qadim campaign IIRC. We got to make ridiculous epic-level characters for a side-quest, put in there ENTIRELY because the GM wanted to see what we'd do if given random build instructions and told to make them "level 20". (I think the plot was we got randomly switched into these guys, in the past, and had do something to get back? I dunno).

I had a mummy gladiator. It worked out surprisingly well.

[bhodi]

snort lines of residuum off of a succubi's ass.

Did they "adjust" the rules from the orig 4e where residuum, by all accounts a material that should be the basis for the most stable currency in the world, inexplicably cannot be bought or sold? That was probably one of the most retarded things I read in the entire DMG/PHB.

[Morat20]

Did they "adjust" the rules from the orig 4e where residuum, by all accounts a material that should be the basis for the most stable currency in the world, inexplicably cannot be bought or sold? That was probably one of the most retarded things I read in the entire DMG/PHB.

Now I'm trying to remember what the hell residuum is? Isn't it the magic stuff you get from breaking down magic artifacts? Basically enchant materials?

[Lantyssa]

It's soulbound.

[Goumindong]

snort lines of residuum off of a succubi's ass.

Did they "adjust" the rules from the orig 4e where residuum, by all accounts a material that should be the basis for the most stable currency in the world, inexplicably cannot be bought or sold? That was probably one of the most retarded things I read in the entire DMG/PHB.

1) that was never a rule

2) who cares if it was?

[Morat20]

It's soulbound.

One day, I'm going to annoy my friends by running a straight-up dungeon crawl with BoP and BoE gear.

"Ah, man, shouldn't have picked up that mace. You're a wizard. Why did you even pick it up? Now you're encumbered. You can either drop half your gear, or leave the 10,000 pp mace to rot on the ground because no one can ever touch it. Ever."

[bhodi]

1) that was never a rule

2) who cares if it was?

My DM. We had a spirited argument about the illogicality of it :)

I'd have to pull the books out and dig through them, but somewhere my edition it specifically says that it's neither bought nor sold. I guess to prevent PCs from simply transferring their wealth directly into an easily portable, universally valuable substance. Kind of like what converting your gold into gems used to be.

I think the idea of soulbound items are pretty funny though. Though, I believe in games past those were called "Cursed".

[Koyasha]

Yep, cursed items.    And the main reason why every adventurer should never touch anything unidentified without their trusty tongs.  Even if I'm playing newer editions cursed items stay really nasty when I'm DMing, as do artifacts.  I have the complete Encyclopedia Magica from 2nd Edition, and even in 3.5 I often take magic items right out of there and adjust them slightly.  And none of the weaksauce 3.5 artifacts either.  Artifact possession, artifact transformation, indestructibility, all the good stuff that makes an artifact worth putting in your campaign sticks around.  They're not just really powerful magic items.

[Goumindong]

My DM. We had a spirited argument about the illogicality of it :)

just checked by PHB. It is mentioned in two places, page 225 and 300.

On page 225 it says that its a convenient way to store large sums of wealth because is so valuable (1 pound=500,000 gp and fits in a belt pouch) and that in some exotic places its traded like currency.

On page 300 it says it can't always be bought on the open market. [nothing about not being able to sell it]

So yea, the PHB encourages you to melt shit down that you won't use and carry it around as residuum to be used for rituals or sold.

[bhodi]

Bah. Can't find my 4th ed books. I do have 2 3rd edition d20 and 1 3.5 PHB if anyone wants them.

As I recall, his argument was that if it can't be bought, it can't be sold, and we aren't in any "exotic" lands. This was years ago, of course, all I really remember clearly is us both getting angry :)

[Soln]

Yep, cursed items.    And the main reason why every adventurer should never touch anything unidentified without their trusty tongs.  Even if I'm playing newer editions cursed items stay really nasty when I'm DMing, as do artifacts.  I have the complete Encyclopedia Magica from 2nd Edition, and even in 3.5 I often take magic items right out of there and adjust them slightly.  And none of the weaksauce 3.5 artifacts either.  Artifact possession, artifact transformation, indestructibility, all the good stuff that makes an artifact worth putting in your campaign sticks around.  They're not just really powerful magic items.

RP'ing and managing intelligent (and delusional) items is fun.

[Sheepherder]

As I recall, his argument was that if it can't be bought, it can't be sold, and we aren't in any "exotic" lands.

Obviously.  I mean, whenever I work far up north my thirst for beer goes away.

[Soln]

guy we played with on the weekend had these:  Thorn Dice Set . They weren't very functional, since he had to stop and squint to read each roll, but they were neat to look at.  That site has other ones as well.

[Ironwood]

Now, they have style !

[Ingmar]

Man, and I thought it hurt to accidentally step on a regular 4-sider.

[Sheepherder]

Man, and I thought it hurt to accidentally step on a regular 4-sider.

Caltrop D4

"Handy for rolling for magic missiles or deterring infantry."

[Ghambit]

Thread semi-derailment:
Anyone have experience with WFRP 3e?  I just put down on a copy of the core set from Amazon (only $60 right now).
I'm not a big fan of the Old World but at that pricepoint I couldnt resist.  Also, I've been working on conversions for some other games that use similar mechanics/ideas, so rather than reinvent the wheel might as well buy into it.

As it relates to DnD4e, I'd always thought WoTc should've presented their product in similar fashion as FFG did for WFRP.  The game requires so much tracking and reference that just having the 4e core books is just     

[Lantyssa]

Bah. Can't find my 4th ed books. I do have 2 3rd edition d20 and 1 3.5 PHB if anyone wants them.

Are you actually looking to get rid of them?  I haven't been able to find my 3.5 PHB since I moved.  I can consult SRDs and whatnot, but I like having physical books.

[bhodi]

Bah. Can't find my 4th ed books. I do have 2 3rd edition d20 and 1 3.5 PHB if anyone wants them.

Are you actually looking to get rid of them?  I haven't been able to find my 3.5 PHB since I moved.  I can consult SRDs and whatnot, but I like having physical books.

Yep. I have no use for them and am moving soon. I'll PM you.

[Sheepherder]

Summoning / pet / familiar rules and options in 4e suck hardcore.  Discuss.

[Ratman_tf]

Summoning / pet / familiar rules and options in 4e suck hardcore.  Discuss.

The root of the problem, as I see it, is that 4e combat can take a good amount of time. Any NPCs you throw in the scenario can multiply it. Status effects mean that you have to track stuff on the NPC and that the NPC inflicts on monsters.
Thus, pet effects are usually nerfed hardcore in order to limit that. Like how pets take player actions, and sometimes are not considered really there. Or are horribly simplified.

I dunno if it got better in Essentials, or if it's even addressed.

The more I play 4th ed, the more I miss 2nd.

[proudft]

We gave the new henchmen rules a whirl last session.   These were the rules from the last Dragon issue - basically they use the Companion rules from the DMG2 which makes NPCs with like 3 PC powers and formula-derived hp, attack bonuses, and damage, and PCs control them in combat.  The Dragon magazine additions basically clarify that the henchmen get paid a flat fee per adventure, take no treasure, and suck up a share of XP.  

It was three players/PCs and two henchmen in a session that was basically nothing but combat after combat.  The NPCs didn't seem to slow anything down, and arguably sped things up.  Something around 15 combats in six hours or so.  

With three people, though, it was convenient that often one PC and the associated henchmen would end up being successive in initiative order.  What I can see happening in a larger party, if a player got his PC and henchman's turns separated by a few minutes, is their attention wandering between turns and require some poking with a stick.

Also, the people who make quick decisions got to have control over the henchmen.  I would never give them to a... shall we say deliberate? player.  But the henchmen only having like 3-5 powers does help a ton, and I intentionally gave them simple, simple powers.  The cleric that didn't end up getting used, for example, required a lot of fussing to avoid powers with random status effects and interrupts.  But a Wizard-ish henchman with basically nothing but magic missile and hypnotism can be really fast for a PC to run.

[Goumindong]

Summoning / pet / familiar rules and options in 4e suck hardcore.  Discuss.

They are much better than other rule sets.

Keeping the action economy in check is a big deal.

[Ard]

Yeah, this isn't magically just a 4e problem.  My group is actively bitching about summoner types in pathfinder right now, because we had two of them in our last campaign, and combat got out of hand and tedious for everyone else.

[Ingmar]

The only real issue I've noticed is that some things don't scale well (beastmaster ranger pets for example start to have issues with attack bonus in the upper end of paragon tier) but the limited actions really keep the annoying summoner stuff of previous editions in check. The druid summons have their instinctive actions which is a fine way of splitting the difference I think.

[Sheepherder]

Do what proudft did: rebalance the encounter.  Subtract gold/experience or add another hostile.

Or have the monster roll to break free and ruin the summoner's shit.

[Ingmar]

That has nothing to do with why 3e summoning characters are irritating. They take 3x (or more depending on how much agonizing paging through monster manuals for summons stats is going on) as long as anyone else's turns, their summons are taking up space that other people need to use, they're giant spotlight hogs, etc. It isn't so much a question of game balance for me as it is just that logistically speaking they're fucking irritating as hell to everyone except the person playing them.

[Sjofn]

Also, the people who make quick decisions got to have control over the henchmen.  

Woo, proudft thinks I make quick decisions!

[Bzalthek]

I actively detest those slow ass motherfuckers.  These assholes don't pay attention to shit other than the thumb up their own ass while it's not their turn and then are surprised when people are waiting on them. 

[Sheepherder]

That has nothing to do with why 3e summoning characters are irritating. They take 3x (or more depending on how much agonizing paging through monster manuals for summons stats is going on) as long as anyone else's turns, their summons are taking up space that other people need to use, they're giant spotlight hogs, etc. It isn't so much a question of game balance for me as it is just that logistically speaking they're fucking irritating as hell to everyone except the person playing them.

1. Make them print that shit out or they're not allowed to summon it.
2. Decrease the difficulty for summons to break free and ( rampage / go ride bicycles ) depending on how many summons they have out.
3. Use swarm/mob/minion rules when appropriate.
4. Use larger environments.
5. Let friendly players displace summoned pets.

[Ingmar]

6. Fix it in the next edition. 

[Sheepherder]

So everything should be peachy by the time 5e starts rolling out?

There is something like five different systems for controlling the way pets spend action points so far, to little gain.

[RhyssaFireheart]

In the current campaign I'm in, I play a cleric so I've got a summon monster spell I can use but I rarely pick it for anything after the first few uses.  It's annoying to find the stats for the summoned monster each time when I forget to copy over the info from my last player sheet, plus at lower levels the monsters are more annoying than anything else, IMO.

Right now in our DM has the party basically trapped in a city by the most nefarious means possible - economics.  We keep getting randomly portaled to new locations as part of our quest and the most recent one stuck us in a mine filled with goblins and the occasional troll.  We fought our way out of the mountain and went haring off into the wilderness to get away from the gobos and continue on our quest.  He's being really strict on things like encumbrance and food, so seeing a city at the end of a huge long bridge across the extremely wide canyon in our path means we go to the city.  Want to come inside?  Certainly!  Just make sure to sign or mark this agreement that you'll pay the admitance fee (5g each for a party of 10!) and/or agree to pay a 10g fee plus 40% convenience charge per person before you exit the city.  Oh, and no magic AT ALL is allowed here, so make sure to register all your magical items with the magister, get your permits and go through approved channels to sell or buy any supplies.  No money?  We'll be glad to extend a letter of credit (plus % fee) while you're here in the city.  Oh yeah, that agreement you signed?  Is magically enforced and we consider 500 miles of the canyon to be city limits, so don't think about trying to get down there and escape that way.


So right now a few of us are scheming to try to figure out what the DM wants us to do or find before we can leave the city.  We know he planned this out well because we've found absolutely no coin or gems to this point of the campaign (and any loot we've tried to sell is being bought for pennies on the dollar), so we're stuck since the party is good/neutral (chaos isn't allowed - it's part of the storyline).  The wizard and I are contempating letting the barbarian go all conan for griggles and then "accidently" casting a spell of some sort to see what will happen.  If nothing else, I get a new character but the wizard is integral to thw storyline, if she goes campaign is probably over.

[Sky]

In case there are any kids who played 1st ed, I wanted to share these: http://www.otherworld.me.uk/store.html

I'm a sucker for the nostalgia.