Arma 2: Combined Ops (ARMA 2 Base game now free!) (Zombie Mod!)

[rk47]

You can do it!

Use cans as a distraction,

You can do THAT?  
This game really does a good job to remind you that your achievements are nearly meaningless - a slight elation when the shotgun is found...and the drop back down to earth when I look at the window. No other game does it for me.

[Kageru]

So I read that bandit skins were removed relatively recently and people mentioned a "heart-beat" as some sort of mechanism to detect humanity... is it actually in the game and how does it work?

[Malakili]

After a bunch of utter failures in a row (who knew there were so many ways to meet death by zombie?)  I had my first breakthrough of success.  I spawned just northeast of Elektrozavodsk and carefully made my way just north of the city and found an old barn hoping to find a gun.  As luck would have it, I found an old bolt action rifle of some kind and about 5 clips worth of ammo, I equipped it just in time to fight of 5 or so zombies which had detected my presence.  I looted the rest of the barn, finding a can of food, a few cans of soda, and a few other items like flares.    After filling up my pack, I set off into the woods and took up a position that looked pretty safe and contemplated my next move.  I was able to scope out Elektro from long range, but decided against entering the city.   I logged off there - about an hour into the character's life.  I think I'm going to head further inland today...

[Amarr HM]

So I read that bandit skins were removed relatively recently and people mentioned a "heart-beat" as some sort of mechanism to detect humanity... is it actually in the game and how does it work?

If you focus your cross hair on a human character you will hear a rapid heartbeat. Not sure what the bandit sound is or if there is one.

[Kageru]

... military simulations have Satchel Charges in case you feel like redefining the map.

[Mrbloodworth]

You can do it!

Use cans as a distraction,

You can do THAT?  
This game really does a good job to remind you that your achievements are nearly meaningless - a slight elation when the shotgun is found...and the drop back down to earth when I look at the window. No other game does it for me.

Yes, Bottles, cans, Flairs, Smoke grenades ( most effective ) will all attract zoms view when tossed. Use "F" to cycle through your weapons ( You see what in the upper right ). Just try make the item cross their sight.

[Nightblade]

So I decided to give this a shot. After taking a few hours downloading everything I installed the mod, joined a server and went at it. Went to change my controls: NOPE. Wont work. Well, it actually just wont let me bind my run keys on my n52te to what I like (But it did let me bind TWO KEYS TOGETHER!). Soooo I load the game up with mangled controls and have at it.

I spawn in a lovely field. Run a little bit and get assaulted by a lone zombie who charged me with the speed of Kenyans. I back-ran to get a look at the zombie chasing me (With yakkety sax playing in my head). This went on for quite a bit until I just alt F4'd out.

I guess the first hurdle of the zombie apocalypse is figuring out the ass backwards UI.

[Kageru]

The UI is so primitive and badly designed it is almost a work of art.

[Surlyboi]

Almost.

[Kageru]

A curio from an earlier and more innocent age then?

[rk47]

I'm shocked with how bad it is really. I still don't know how to chat and aiming a gun doesn't feel good at all.
I suppose I'll login again tonight with the shotgun and see how far I can go.

[Surlyboi]

You can't really chat anymore except in local.

[Kageru]

And local has a range of 40m. In most cases someone who saw another player saw them further than that and has either fired or booked it (my interaction with other players so far). Also local audio chat attracts zombies I believe

The organized groups don't care, they were using out of game communication even before this change.

[Kageru]

I was trying to work out why this game was so more-ish even though the mechanics are either shallow or absent. I think it's because it provides a meaningful single player experience, in a popular and recognizable genre, on top of a game that had lots of mechanics and little appeal. It provides a reason to play Arma-II more tempting than the one it shipped with and with a community where you don't have be hard-core into military tactics. It provides lots of threatening but relatively predictable computer controlled opponents and some fairly clear and immediate goals.

I also think it could very easily be a short-lived fame. The layer on top of Arma-II is very thin, it will take much more time to grow depth than the current fans think (and the underlying mechanisms provide their own scaling issues). The military combat foundation remains fairly niche once fully exposed and is pretty punishing to those who don't play along the lines the mechanics enforce (small unit tactics pretty much). Persistence also enables PK and griefing which attracts a certain audience who are a lot more motivated that the far more casual majority. Meanwhile the developer is convinced he has bottled magic.

It will be fascinating to watch the evolution of the mod (over months) and how it influences other games.... but I think it's going to be a rough ride taking this game to maturity. Possibly the first time someone has proposed growing a complex game from early alpha, in public and with an active player base?

[Mrbloodworth]

I would say the a main reason ArmA isn't popular, compared to contemporary games, is the realistic shooting model ( Performance, UI, and graphics aside ). In Arma, the bullet leaves from the chamber, in other titles, the bullet leaves from the players view. This is why you have a small dot, that waggles all over when you are moving ( Tied to animations ), that's where the chamber, and tip of the gun, is pointing, even if the "Cross-hair" is stationary. You can even shoot yourself. Yes. It also has real, measured weapon modeling to the real world counterparts. No exceptions are made like in other titles to make sure nothing fires beyond the hard render distance, where hard render distance is used to baseline distances for the guns in other engines. This is like the debate between those in MMO's who prefer the damage to be dealt before the animation even fires, or completes, VS. those who do not. The Stamina, and breathing system is also a departure from most FPS games, so is simple turning, as the barrel and chamber lag if you turn to quickly.

You do need to stop moving to fire, but not only stop, but manage your breathing. Running full speed for 10 min, then trying to kneel and fire at a moving target 300 yards away is going to land you in problems. Also, that right click is not just a zoom, you are holding your breath. Saying the base game is lacking, is really misunderstanding the base game. Granted, the UI is cumbersome in places, but that does not mean the base game is shallow, it has more features, and capability then many "Modern FPS" games. Its the initial introductions, and unlearning what other titles have taught you that's the hard part. Something they mean to address in ArmA 3.

As for dayz itself. Shallow? To a point, yes, its intended. With the use of permadeth, you can't have a deep progression system. Many "high end" systems are there to mitigate permadeath, such as tents, and cars.

The complexity, and mechanics, and depth of systems already is more than say, Left4Dead. Left4Dead is, quite shallow. But its focus is on re-playability, quick entry, and story. There isn't much making it less "shallow" beyond that. Limited weapons, fudged weapon models, you can heal yourself and others, and explode a few things. Not many other base features I can think of, or that are not a derivative of those.

I would say, that you may perceive it ( DayZ ) as shallow, because you have not been exposed to all the possible combinations of activities and mechanics. It is a sanbox after all.


PS. I love left 4 dead.

[Kageru]

It's a sandbox with very little sand other than what the ARMA engine and mechanics provide. And almost all of that is about shooting other players. That's why the zombies are not a long term threat unlike L4D, why co-operative mechanics are largely absent and why the game is dominated by PvP fans and some innocent fools thinking they're roleplaying a survival simulator, when many people are roleplaying "elite special forces team".

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing ARMA-II, I even like the detail in the mechanics. But as a "military simulation" I avoided it as I assumed the single player was poor and the social aspect was being highly into accuracy and wanting to work as a tight knit squad doing activities that were often relatively boring but accurately mirrored the reality of real life military. Including being suddenly killed by a sniper you didn't see. And that's a relatively niche interest. In a lot of ways Day-Z has introduced a lot of people to the idea that a brutal military simulation can be quite intense, it's a great teaser for Arma-3.

The people who will dominate Day-Z are playing exactly the way Arma-II intended, as a tight organized military unit, with the advantage of persistence and full looting allowing them a gear advantage on top of their skill / organisational advantage. Which is cool in itself but is going to dominate and drive off the majority of the far more casual player base. Even the existence of NVG is cool but an immense balance disaster.

I think Arma-II is good at what it does, I think zombies and the idea of a realistic survival simulator is a cool concept, I think Day-Z is a foundation. But will he be able to retain his own enthusiasm and a supportive player base over time time it takes to flesh out the game? That will be an interesting challenge.

(edit)

heh, when you see a stranger you can shoot him at hundreds of meters (or run / alt-F4), talk to him at 40 or know if he's a PK at 15. Which of these is the safest option that most players will end up doing? Rocket probably is sympathetic to the PK brigade, they do they play the game the way he is used to after all.

[Sky]

I would say the a main reason ArmA isn't popular, compared to contemporary games, is the realistic shooting model ( Performance, UI, and graphics aside ).

It's the UI.

[Kageru]

I'd say UI, buggy / unpolished, bad single player (according to reviews) and the specialised MP community plus a small developer. It certainly never occurred to me the shooting mechanics was a primary issue.

[Surlyboi]

It'll ultimately break out to your last paragraph in your previous post. Casuals will get bored, then it'll just be the unorganized PK kiddies vs the organized groups. The PK kiddies will get tired of having their asses handed to them and look for some other uneven playing ground where they can find new Piggys to steal glasses from and drop boulders on.

[Mrbloodworth]

NVM..

Pending Update: Build 1.7.2
Target date is Monday. Backup is for Saturday during offpeak time.

The update will include some new functionality. Currently, it includes some leftover fixes from the end of 1.7.1

But I will be updating the progress here. 1.7.1.5 will remain all weekend, unless something serious happens.

This is the completed changelog so far:

Changelog:
* [FIXED] Infected hear perfectly through objects (noise reduced by 50% through an object)
* [FIXED] Animal bodies despawn way too fast (now despawn automatically after 2 minutes)
* [FIXED] Corrupted update data causes people to spawn in debug forest (now will not save corrupted position data)
* [FIXED] States where animal might stop walking around (now should walk around more)
* [FIXED] Animal AI routines consuming large amounts of FPS (now in line with Infected AI routines, reduced FPS usage)
* [NEW] Player Syncing system replaced (increased performance and ammo quantity tracking)
* [FIXED] Error reports are almost invisible (has now been fixed)
* [FIXED] Daylight calculations causing slight FPS issue
* [NEW] Visibility now smoothly alters based on sun, moon, cloud, rain, and fog state
* [NEW] Aubility now dampened in rain and increased by fog
* [FIXED] Object cleanup causing significant (huge) performance issue on servers (reduced by up to 50%, means more players + zombies possible)
* [FIXED] Use of "allMissionObjects" causing performance issue on clients (new engine command "entities" used to improve FPS on clients)
* [FIXED] Too easy to break legs due to infected (reduced probability of leg damage, reduced amount of leg damage)

I do not think this list is complete at this time.

[Surlyboi]

Good shit on the leg breakage. That's happening way too fucking often lately. But how does fog increase audibility?

[CmdrSlack]

Because your ears overcompensate for the decreased visual inputs? Maybe Rocket likes Daredevil. 

[UnSub]

Because SCIENCE!

[Kageru]

I was thinking about posting some more suggestions. Like the fact that the game needs a challenge progression so they can scale zombies based on experience / gear. Otherwise every "realism" factor just increases the difficulty and reduces the fun of the new player experience, when they are already the ones facing the most challenge. Also that realistic injury recovery, such that if you get shot multiple times you can't just get a blood transfusion and be instantly 100%, would discourage rampant or professional PvP in a realistic fashion. Though that would probably just end up favoring the organized / skilled groups or getting people with buddies to hold their gear while they respawn.

But there's really no point. The game has so much potential that it's incredibly easy to think of things that would be cool additions, and no doubt Rocket has such a list himself. The challenge is going to be getting them in the game and working with a small dev team, limited resources and an iterative approach. It might work if he could really harness the community, possibly, but that will work against the control and possible productization of it.

It's going to be fun to watch... It makes you realize what an advantage Notch had in terms of total control of a much more scalable and malleable engine, plus putting the art expectations low.

[Malakili]

 

[Kageru]

Urgh...  I think Rocket and the media did a good sales job on this, but I feel for the people who can't see where the mechanics are going to lead.

They just passed their 1 million murder milestone. With about 1 in 5 players flagged as being a bandit. *surprise*.

[Mrbloodworth]

Like the fact that the game needs a challenge progression so they can scale zombies based on experience / gear.

Dear god no. You do not understand the experiment.

[Kageru]

Feel free to try explaining it. I tend to interpret his version of "experiment" as "I'm just winging it".

Any attempt to make zombies challenging to grouped and geared players (which seems to be his focus at the moment) is going to make the game punitively unaccessible for new or un-geared players. You need some staggered progression of challenge to deal with that.

[Mrbloodworth]

Pulling a Shane - DayZ Betrayal

[rk47]

Like the fact that the game needs a challenge progression so they can scale zombies based on experience / gear.

Dear god no. You do not understand the experiment.

Noob Zone - Veteran Zone separation would be nice. Noob zone will have very little loot, but very little risk. The odd pistol clip, the odd can of bean there and you have to start taking risk by venturing to higher reward areas where the zombies move faster?

It'd be nice instead of washing ashore in a beach with no gun - and spawning right next to a gunfight between veterans or dozens of zeds.

[apocrypha]

rk47 you're assuming that Rocket wants players to enjoy themselves. I see no evidence to support this theory.

[Amarr HM]

Or you could always do this..

Find a reasonably empty daylight server, <20.
Respawn until you are near a big town, preferably Cherno.
Run like mad and ignore the Zombie horde behind you.
Get into one of the cafeteria/hostel/factory building and run upstairs.
Log off to de-spawn/de-aggro the horde of zombies behind you.
Log back in & pick up the equipment littered around the house, you will probably get a firearm.

[rk47]

Too meta. I really want to have some kind of perma-char server like Ultima shards. The way the multi-char server works is a little wonky now.

[Kageru]

Very wonky I suspect. Lots of dupe bugs, lots of logoffski, people using movement on other servers to teleport behind targets. And those are only the ones being reported. But he's got no real choice since the servers are independently run and apparently reasonably demanding. The Arma-II foundation also seems to have very little protection against injection or attack which I guess was never an issue in a non persistent environment. The "cheat reporting" part of the official forums is hilarious to read.

Next time I die, if I play again (might just wait for a humanity system), I'm definitely going zombie training through Cherno.

[Yoru]

Next time I die, I'm getting some friends together, finding hatchets and playing Night of the Living Axe Murderers in Cherno.