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Author Topic: Gripes, complaints and irritations.  (Read 250672 times)
Rendakor
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Reply #280 on: March 16, 2011, 07:53:45 PM

Note, I said spec they don't want to play. If someone is DPS with a healing offspec, that's different then "Hey mr DK DPS, plz go respec tank b/c ur dps sux kthx". We have enough people who ARE flexible that those who only want to DPS are free to do that.

The other issue with forcing people to play something they don't want to is that they're probably not very good at it. Some classes have gear overlap (in WoW) with other specs, but many don't; as a result when you make someone switch spec you get subpar gear and subpar performance. At that point you're better off just taking someone else. This is only an issue where you have absurd edge-cases like 10 friends who all only play melee dps.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #281 on: March 16, 2011, 08:09:40 PM

I'm pretty sure you're not disagreeing with me at all. My point is that people identify with their specs and won't want to switch on the fly. DPS mages won't want to go chorolol and bards won't want to switch to assassin or whatever the flavor of the month dps is. Hell even among wow warlocks some people just like affliction, some people like destro and it doesnt matter which is better they will play that spec and both are dps.

if you have 10 bards in your guild and you only need one, some of those bards may switch and some may just find another raiding guild that wants bards.

That's my point and that's the problem trion is going to have because now they are going to have to balance 28 different classes

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Rendakor
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Reply #282 on: March 16, 2011, 08:18:11 PM

Fair point. The real question would be why you recruited 10 bards in the first place.

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Bzalthek
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Reply #283 on: March 16, 2011, 09:16:42 PM

This is not Trion's problem.  This is an extreme, hypothetical case that you are clinging to just to bitch.  It's been heard before in other games "no one in my guild wants to play a healer!  How am I supposed to get through Dungeon X!"  If your guild all wants to be spec X and no one is willing to branch into other roles, even when they have 4 builds they can switch to on the fly, then you are guilded with a bunch of self-absorbed cunts and it is still not Trion's problem. 

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Typhon
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Reply #284 on: March 17, 2011, 04:41:47 AM

I don't think Lakov is arguing a hypothetical case at all.  I like storm/lightning classes.  First thing I rolled in RIFT was a storm mage.  I noticed that the spells were trying to have synergies, but really didn't suceed at it.  I remembered two years of waiting for the Thane to become competitive in DAOC and quickly rolled a warrior (Rfitblade).  But the point stands, I'm kinda bummed that the stormcaller is largely useless.

If this was my first game, I'd be much more reluctant to swap "my main soul" out of stormcalling - even though this game is clearly designed for folks to swap specs.  Why?  I don't know, I just like the whole stormcalling thing.

Quick question - how many people not getting Lakov's point have ever used the term "fotm bitch"?
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Reply #285 on: March 17, 2011, 06:30:57 AM

If this was my first game, I'd be much more reluctant to swap "my main soul" out of stormcalling - even though this game is clearly designed for folks to swap specs.  Why?  I don't know, I just like the whole stormcalling thing.

What makes it so impressive that you can't change? It takes all of 3 seconds, and you can still USE your Stormcaller abilities, just not as the primary focus. My Nightblade PvE is my primary role, but I switch to Bard when in raids and Assassin when otherwise, BUT the Nightblade still works pretty well in PvP, I just need to add some Assassin abilities and I use some low level Bard Songs at the same time too.

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Reply #286 on: March 17, 2011, 07:13:45 AM

If you cannot understand the concept of liking the idea of being a character that can control lightning and storms (here lightning and storms is just an example), and how playing a game might satisfy that desire to some extent, my yammering via text isn't going to help you - but I'll try anyway because I'm broken.

My mage now has three souls - Stormcaller/Ele/Dom, War/Necro/Dom, Necro/War/Dom.  I'm so stubborn I didn't just remove the Storm soul.  But stormcalling is so underperforming and clunky that I never use it.  That is unsatisfying.  I CAN switch.  I DO switch (ok, I used to switch).  I would prefer to primarily use the stormcalling abilities, but the only area where storm seems like it can get the job done is in situations where I need AE damage and have someone else tanking (so, Rifts and invasions).
Bzalthek
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Reply #287 on: March 17, 2011, 07:34:56 AM

No I understand your point.  Perhaps it's my unfamiliarity with the mage calling that is the problem.  However I have the niggling feeling that your issues revolve around the stormcaller not being as useful as you'd like in more areas of the game.  I can feel that to some extent on my cleric.  I vastly prefer playing the druid/sham.  It's a melee dps spec with a warden third soul for some healing on the side.  But it's not useful in many group situations.  If I find that no one is healing, I'll have to swap in my warden/sent to get the job done.  If for some reason we don't have a MT I'll swap in the Justicar build.  I'd much rather not have to use those souls, but if it's necessary to accomplish the goal, I'll do it.  If, however, I was unwilling to do so, rather than see it as Trion's problem to fix for me, I'd not participate in events that require me to switch.

I can understand liking being a lightning throwing bad ass.  It just seems to me that you require that soul to be viable in every situation for some reason.  I see plenty of lightning flying around in public rifts, so there has to be some utility to the soul at any rate.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #288 on: March 17, 2011, 07:42:48 AM

People don't like switching gears. If they roll a healer, they want to heal. If they roll a dps they want to dps ad if they roll a lightning mage, they want to play a lightning mage.  I think it's really offtrack to make this a casual vs raider argument because it's not. Raiders don't suddenly enjoy playing paladins just because that might be what the guild needs, they may tolerate it but they won't have as much fun as say playing their disease throwing reaver.

The bottom line is this is a fun issue and as blizzard is finding out with cataclysm and all the "learn2play we nerfed your classes" style heroics, fun actually goes a LONG way

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Bzalthek
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Reply #289 on: March 17, 2011, 07:55:11 AM

People don't like switching gears.

I disagree.  The whole point of the souls and the ability to switch between them any time out of combat is to be able to switch gears.  Also, switching to a Paladin in Rift is much different than switching to another class in WoW.  In WoW, playing your Paladin only increases the strength of the Paladin.  In WoW, if you level up with your Paladin you will also have another point to spend in your Reaver set of souls.

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Typhon
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Reply #290 on: March 17, 2011, 08:06:36 AM

No I understand your point.  Perhaps it's my unfamiliarity with the mage calling that is the problem.  However I have the niggling feeling that your issues revolve around the stormcaller not being as useful as you'd like in more areas of the game.  I can feel that to some extent on my cleric.  I vastly prefer playing the druid/sham.  It's a melee dps spec with a warden third soul for some healing on the side.  But it's not useful in many group situations.  If I find that no one is healing, I'll have to swap in my warden/sent to get the job done.  If for some reason we don't have a MT I'll swap in the Justicar build.  I'd much rather not have to use those souls, but if it's necessary to accomplish the goal, I'll do it.  If, however, I was unwilling to do so, rather than see it as Trion's problem to fix for me, I'd not participate in events that require me to switch.

I can understand liking being a lightning throwing bad ass.  It just seems to me that you require that soul to be viable in every situation for some reason.  I see plenty of lightning flying around in public rifts, so there has to be some utility to the soul at any rate.

Bolded the items that hit close to home (but the second bold is stated too harshly).  I'd phrase it like this, "I'd just like the Stormcaller to be useful in more areas, currently it seems like it's only useful in public rifts when I can focus on AEing".  That said, I don't expect it to be as good as any other spec in all situations - I expect that it will not be as good as other (or maybe even any other) souls in the same class for certain activities.  I would like it if it was at least fun to use in "bread and butter" activities - like single or multi-target blasting.  Currently it's just tedious.  There are a number of spells that don't fit in any rotation, and the charge mechanism (and what expends charges and/or hypothermia) needs work.  (example - there is a spell that expends charges but ends up not doing significantly more damage then the build-up abilities).    And occasionally you are better served by using the base-level blast from Dom, which seems weird.

All that said I understand that as a RIFT player I need to be using all of my roles pretty frequently or I will suck with those I'm not using enough.  Rotations are significantly different between each soul and combination of souls such that they take a pit of practice to get a hang of what you should be hitting and when.  I'm fine with that, I think it adds a bunch to the fun of the game.

I don't know if I disagree or not with the "people don't like switching gears" statement either.  I think "some people don't like switching gears" is accurate.  If a person is strongly in the "I don't like/can't switch gears" variety, then Rift probably isn't the game they should be playing.  I'm in the, "I like switching gears, I just wish my primary choice was less specialized" variety.
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Reply #291 on: March 17, 2011, 08:10:48 AM

Some of my guildies (who are playing RIFT currently) don't like switching gears at all, since they think it dilutes the character. For example, a guildie has a bard character concept, and her chara *is* a bard (with appropriate 2nd and 3rd soul of course). No 2nd or 3rd spec. To me, this is an understandable playstyle, even if I don't agree with it. It also makes sense if you RP...

FWIW I have 4 specs on my cleric: pve healing, dps, tanking, pvp healing.

Bzalthek
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Reply #292 on: March 17, 2011, 08:25:15 AM

Yes, some people don't like switching gears.  It's the generalization I was disagreeing with.  I don't know what to say to those people, but if there's one soul they absolutely must play, then there probably needs to be some experimentation on the other two souls which would synergize with it the most depending on an individual's playstyle.  Of course, then you get into the more tedious portion of people who must play THIS particular combination of souls, or must focus on this soul PRIMARILY.  But, meh, you can't make everyone happy all the time.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #293 on: March 17, 2011, 08:34:39 AM

Because Trion intended for people to switch specs on the fly does not invalidate my argument nor does it make it a good decision. What I'm saying is by and large people will not want to do this and be left wondering why their "class" sucks, or is never taken on raids.  Reverse it even and say I love playing a bard but they are only viable in the end game, I don't want to play a ranger for 50 levels and THEN get to play the class I want.

Just look at any fighting game. Yes you have the hardcore that will always play the strongest possible character but even among hardcore fighters there are usually a top 3-4 to choose from and everyone has their favorite playstyle. There are very few games that make you radiaclly change your playstle (heal to dps/tank etc)

Also you are missing the point Bzalthek, I'm not saying people will say "Man, if I can't play a warlord effectively screw this" it's man like "Man, I wish I could paly a warlord, those are really fun but eh, ll stuck with champion for now" this is a game, games are 'about' fun, in fact you DO want to make everyone happy all the time, that's the point. Of course you can't but more people than not like playing 'their' class, whatever class that might be.

Again, wow tried this, it failed. They tried saying "well if you can't get into a group as X sec, just respec and go Y!" people don't like doing that.

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AcidCat
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Reply #294 on: March 17, 2011, 08:45:00 AM

So ... some people like sticking with a certain class. Sometimes that class does not fill its role in raid situations as well as others. So those people either - switch specs to play with serious folks who want maximum efficiency in raids, or play with more casual people who may still raid, but are not as serious business about it.  Is this not any raiding mmo ever?
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Reply #295 on: March 17, 2011, 08:48:22 AM

Part of the reason I never got far into the demo was because I felt bombarded with entirely too many abilities and choices with all the specs. It could have just been the early game, but I didn't feel like spreading across 3 things that quickly was a good thing.

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Reply #296 on: March 17, 2011, 08:56:40 AM

Part of the reason I never got far into the demo was because I felt bombarded with entirely too many abilities and choices with all the specs. It could have just been the early game, but I didn't feel like spreading across 3 things that quickly was a good thing.

It isn't in most cases.  You spread yourself thin and you miss out on a lot of options that greatly strengthen your character.  Your third soul early on should likely only be used for a nice free zero point ability.

Luckily it's trivial to respec and try out different soul and build options.

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Rendakor
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Reply #297 on: March 17, 2011, 09:02:41 AM

Not that I want to interrupt this wonderful argument but...


Fuck Scarlet Gorge. Particularly the Ironroot Draw area, which is the road between the Defiant portal and the northern quest hubs, that is camped by TONS of roaming, aggro mobs. Even after today's changes I'm still getting dismounted in 2 hits, and there's no way clearing 15 useless mobs just to travel between quest hubs is intended to be fun.

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Draegan
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Reply #298 on: March 17, 2011, 10:52:00 AM

Oh right, of course raiders won't be affected by this. Utter bullshit, when needed classes aren't favored by the general populace raiding guilds have trouble recruiting or forming raids.

"Hey bill, we're raiding king assface tonight, need you to switch to your healing spec"
"what the hell, i signed up to raid as dps"

People may be flexible now but the idea of re-speccing has been in wow since it started and people still hate doing it, even as easy as it is and yes this is at the raiding level too.

Also, let's not kid ourselves here, this game doesn't have four classes with 28 souls, it's got 28 classes. You don't say "im a warrior with points in riftblade/champion and beastmaster" you say "im a riftblade"  

So when people start identifying with certain playstyles they dont like having to switch cause "sorry dude, we already got one" I've raided for way too long to not see this happen. Some raiders are flexible but many aren't.

Everything you typed here is wrong.

Edit to add:

This game is all about 4 callings.  Souls are tools.  If you want to play the game to it's fullest potential you should use all the tools given to you.  If you want to only use a bard and be stubborn about it, then it's saying that you're only going to build a house with a hammer.

Now with that being said, you can do a very high percentage of the content in this game with any spec you want.  It might be harder and slower than the most optimal way.  Some of the stuff you won't be able to do is high end T2 and Raid dungeons because some of those fights require an appropriate combination of players.

For example: The last boss in Expert Abyssal Precipice.  You need two healers for the fight and you need good/decent AOE dps.  The best setup would probably be a Warrior Tank (aoe dps/threat), Champ/BM Warrior, Ranger, Chloro and a Healing Cleric.  However you can do it with a Rogue or Cleric Tank.  But there is no room in this fight for a Bard.  The Bard just doesn't have the DPS or the Healing output to work for this fight.

This is why you have four roles. 

However, if later on down the road when new content is put in, you can probably do this encounter with any setup once gear catches up.  But with current levels of gear you need a bit more controlled group setup.  Also one thing to note, you can do the whole dungeon up to this point with some sub-optimal group setups with just about any setup.  Some of the bosses will wipe you a lot though.  Some bosses are a bit more lenient.

People can play whatever they want.  You can get into normal dungeons and almost all of the T1 Expert dungeons with any spec you want and play it.  But you shouldn't be butthurt when someone asks you to switch to try a different strategy if you get stuck on something.

But if you want to play your bard and complete a dungeon in 2 hours when switching to a dps role would cut that time in half, then be my guest.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 11:05:50 AM by Draegan »
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #299 on: March 17, 2011, 11:20:18 AM

I dont even play my bard and you are completely missing the fucking point, again.

I'm NOT saying trion didn't build this game with the intent of switching through your four roles on the fly, I'm not saying in Rift that ever of the 28 souls was intended to do everything. What I AM saying, is that people don't want to switch between four different classes on the fly, they want what they pick to be able to do most everything and that down the line, the forums are going to be infested with "buff X soul, nerf Y soul" because people want whatever they choose to be good at this game.

Also, don't fucking use the term butthurt, you know who uses that? raiders. Raiding is the only time I hear that and all it is, is another way of saying QQmoar with less leet speak.

 If you think this doesn't affect you, you're dead wrong pal because Rift is going to be a balance nightmare for the foreseeable future for all the reasons I've been giving. You don't mind switching your souls? great, expect to do it with every single patch. However I promise you a majority of players, hardcore or not will end up getting pissy about changing playstyles so often.

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Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #300 on: March 17, 2011, 11:32:24 AM

I dont even play my bard and you are completely missing the fucking point, again.

Yeah I gotta say, Lakov has been pretty abrasive and occasionally out to lunch on RIFT stuff overall, but it is just astonishing how much everyone is talking past each other here. It's like two completely parallel conversations.
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Reply #301 on: March 17, 2011, 11:33:33 AM

Lakov sounds butthurt.  awesome, for real

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #302 on: March 17, 2011, 11:39:16 AM

 Facepalm

It's a pet peeve, I hate clique-ish terminology.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 11:40:48 AM by Lakov_Sanite »

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Rasix
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Reply #303 on: March 17, 2011, 11:48:02 AM

Fascinating, tell us more.

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Reply #304 on: March 17, 2011, 12:56:22 PM

What I AM saying, is that people don't want to switch between four different classes on the fly, they want what they pick to be able to do most everything.

Considering the ease of doing it, the cheapness of respecing (unlike WoW, I have no fear of doing it and wasting money), you need to stop calling yourself a Stormcaller and start calling yourself a Mage who can choose to specialize IN Stormcalling but know that in some situations there will be another role you need to play.

Quote
If you think this doesn't affect you, you're dead wrong pal because Rift is going to be a balance nightmare for the foreseeable future for all the reasons I've been giving. You don't mind switching your souls? great, expect to do it with every single patch. However I promise you a majority of players, hardcore or not will end up getting pissy about changing playstyles so often.

I'm sure there are elite builds that if you aren't using you'll be looked down upon (and some like Saboteur "drop charges on target and detonate at your leisure" need to be nurfed with an ability to block them some of the time, or a Bard's awesomeness or the high stun times I see people talking about at level 50 ), but the amount of souls and builds able to be swapped at a moments notice means there's a very good chance there is a good counter to that elite build that just needs to be swapped to when needed.  It's not like you're playing WW2OL and if you haven't got a joystick can't really jump into a Fighter plane to shoot down that annoying Stuka that keeps bombing your tank.

I don't know of any RPG or MMO that does NOT have people bitching about how the other side/class/server/player has better stuff and my stuff sucks and ohgod devs fix it it's not fair.  
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 12:57:54 PM by Comstar »

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Reply #305 on: March 17, 2011, 01:07:17 PM

What I AM saying, is that people don't want to switch between four different classes on the fly

You mean some people want to do that.  In reality what they are doing is just playing a soul and not their calling.  That's perfectly fine and a valid way of playing the game, who am I to tell people how to play games.  However that's not how the game is designed and they can't complain if they can't complete content because they refuse to play the game how it was intended.
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Reply #306 on: March 17, 2011, 01:13:42 PM



I don't know of any RPG or MMO that does NOT have people bitching about how the other side/class/server/player has better stuff and my stuff sucks and ohgod devs fix it it's not fair.  

Exactly and even in wow with dual speccing and recpeccing costing a ridiculously low amount compared to what you get at max level, people still don't like doing it.  The argument seems to be "well if you don't like it just play something else" but that argument will not placate people and trion is going to be tasked with balancing 28 different souls.

What I AM saying, is that people don't want to switch between four different classes on the fly

and they can't complain

You must be new to MMO's, not only will they complain they will do so loudly and in enough numbers that trion will have to get to work balancing classes or people will start getting fed up with the game.  Hell go all the way back to diablo. Javazon, bowazon sound familier? People identify with the playstyles of their character. It really doesn't matter what their "base" class is or whatever name you want to give it.

Some people like pet classes, some people like dots, some love aoe an some love shooting lightning bolts from their arse. You can't just tell people to switch what they like on the fly and expect them to like something else and yes, they need to like it...because liking it means trion pays their bills.

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Reply #307 on: March 17, 2011, 02:29:05 PM

Rift according to Lakov. Who is absolutely not butthurt.

Quote
You must be new to MMO's, not only will they complain they will do so loudly and in enough numbers that trion will have to get to work balancing classes or people will start getting fed up with the game.

If you think this doesn't affect you, you're dead wrong pal because Rift is going to be a balance nightmare for the foreseeable future for all the reasons I've been giving.

Because Trion intended for people to switch specs on the fly does not invalidate my argument nor does it make it a good decision.

People don't like switching gears. If they roll a healer, they want to heal.

I mean, you just proved my point if people in your raiding guild arent willing to play certain specs.

Have you raided? Ever? I'm not talking about johnny casual.

I've raided for way too long to not see this happen. Some raiders are flexible but many aren't.

Some people don't give a shit about numbers, they just want to play a certain class or style. What about that do you not get?

Warriors can't heal.

Trion will need to recognize this soon and not just in the case of bards.

Have you played this game?

You may like pvp and regardless of whether you do or not, the pvp in this game is a joke.

I swear, it's like you people don't realize 99% of what developers say is bullshit yet.

I'm left handed, mouse-click buttons, though only partially keyboard turn, mostly strafe and my reaction time does not suffer in the least but YMMV.

Again they are trying not to deviate too far from the cash cow that is wow and to me that really shows a lack of insight.

I'm not saying trion ever lied but the whole soul system really gives this big illusion of variety when there isn't one.

Again, they are playing it safe, not deviating too much and I'm forced to ask, why?

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Reply #308 on: March 17, 2011, 02:37:07 PM

Psycho.

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Reply #309 on: March 17, 2011, 02:41:13 PM

Psycho.

 why so serious?

Just pointing out you might want to back away slowly there buddy. That's your last 30 posts in a nutshell.

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Reply #310 on: March 17, 2011, 02:43:43 PM

I have been getting a lot of downtime at work.

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Reply #311 on: March 17, 2011, 02:47:10 PM

Part of the reason I never got far into the demo was because I felt bombarded with entirely too many abilities and choices with all the specs. It could have just been the early game, but I didn't feel like spreading across 3 things that quickly was a good thing.

Yeah, this was a really, really stupid decision on their part imho.  I have to assume it was driven by a last-minute panic to distinguish themselves from WoW in the first few minutes of the game.  If you consider the game in and of itself it's almost impossible to argue that it's a good thing to force someone to select a second soul literally three quests after selecting their first, and the third a few levels later.  There's absolutely nothing so interesting about having multiple souls active at once that justifies thrusting that kind of complexity on a new user so early.  It wasn't really until level 20-ish that I really started getting much value out of my second soul, and I still, at level 43, haven't really done anything too interesting with my third.

Those aren't the levels I'm recommending for when they should have unlocked them, btw.  It's entirely possible that if I hadn't had access to my third soul until level 20, I would have gained an appreciation for it and cared about what I put there.  As it is, my brain pretty much decided to not care too much about the other two souls and to drag any abilities from them off my hotbar.  Later I started adding a few, and now my shaman/justicar actually uses some justicar stuff with some real effect, but there is absolutely NO WAY that it would have mattered early enough to warrant that stupidity at level 2.

Mind you, I'm not saying they shouldn't let you have access to lots of souls to respec into as early as they did.  That should be more fun than it is (it's boring as hell currently), but it happens at a good time and it's great having those options available to play around with.  It's the unlocking the second and third active soul trees that is stupid.  I'm a pretty open-minded dude and generally don't like to say I'm certain of anything, but in this case I am certain the game would be improved in an absolute sense if your second tree was unlocked at level 5 or 10 or something, and the third at 15/20.  And not only confused, but led to believe the game is full of redundant, flavorless abilities, since the current system basically gives you three nigh-identical attacks by level 6, giving you a horrible impression of the very system they are trying to impress you with right off the bat.  They clearly made this decision based on beta testing feedback, somehow failing to realize that beta testers are a) the type of people who play every MMO, and b) had already acclimated to the soul system by the time they were giving the feedback.

I love this game in general, but this is seriously one of the dumbest things I have seen done.  Where dumb is defined not by the severity of the problem it creates, but by how obviously inferior a decision it is.

I mean, for the love of christ, there is a goddamn quest in the defiant starting zone that details you getting your second soul (at around level 5, a reasonably appropriate time), except by that time you're actually getting your third soul because of this bizarre hacked-in change.  So fucking strange.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 02:49:03 PM by Abelian75 »
Threash
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Reply #312 on: March 17, 2011, 03:21:04 PM

It was actually a change made early in the betas after massive requests and feedback about opening up the main draw of their game up sooner.  Used to be you got to pick between three souls to start, opened up the second on what is now the third soul quest and didn't get the third until level 20 or so.  It blew, this is much better.

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Abelian75
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Reply #313 on: March 17, 2011, 04:02:59 PM

It was actually a change made early in the betas after massive requests and feedback about opening up the main draw of their game up sooner.  Used to be you got to pick between three souls to start, opened up the second on what is now the third soul quest and didn't get the third until level 20 or so.  It blew, this is much better.

Yeah, I, uh, don't believe you.  I mean, I believe you that this what was changed, I do not believe that this was a good change though, or that anyone's experience was enriched by having three souls active at level 6 rather than 20 (I could see pushing it to 15 or so though).

I know that they used to make it a lot harder to get new souls (I think they were metered out over all 50 levels or something, right?)  Changing that totally makes sense.  I think it's really cool that you can get all 8 PvE souls at level 15 or whatever.  That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about having three active at once by level 6.  And two active at once by level 2.

You do not have to throw complexity in a user's face.  Especially when it serves no interesting purpose.  There is no interesting gameplay brought about by having two active souls at level 2.

From what I can tell, the change to allow you to collect all 8 souls more rapidly was made at the same time as the change that allows you to have two soul trees active at level 2, and three by level 6.  I assume this is true because people always assume there is some connection between these two ideas.  The response to what I said above is always to say that it sucked having to wait until level 50 to have all your souls.  I'm all for having all your souls quickly so you can play multiple roles and try out different shit.  What I'm saying is that nothing interesting happens at level 2 when you have two active souls to justify the added complexity.  Consider the added complexity in this case means that new users are being forced to realize that they should be dragging an ability off of their hotbar at level 2 or 3.  Consider that in some cases this is like the third ability they have gotten so far in the whole game.  That's fucking nuts in a game that otherwise does such a good job of being approachable and pleasant to play.

I mean, I can say for sure that my play experience would not have been significantly altered if I STILL didn't have a third active soul unlocked at level 43 (though it would be hugely negatively impacted if I couldn't have gained all 8 to swap between by level 16 or whatever).  Hell, to be honest you could probably argue that it wasn't even necessary to EVER have more than two actives.  (And it's easy to be like, "OMG LESS OPTIONS," but then why not four actives?)  Mind you, I'm not making that argument.  I'm making the argument you don't need three actives at level 6.

Edit:  I should also say that I already knew it had been like this in beta, and that I would have known so even if I had never read about the beta at all.  Any observant person can tell it used to be this way, because of the fact that, like I said earlier, the quest text still talks as though you are getting your second soul at level 6.  Somehow, insanely, they thought it was so important that you have three active souls by level 6 that it was worth invalidating the quest progression of the defiant newbie zone.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 04:08:49 PM by Abelian75 »
Threash
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Posts: 9165


Reply #314 on: March 17, 2011, 04:46:18 PM

Well i tried it both ways and the way it is now is much better.  Yes, it was that important, the other way sucked horribly.

I am the .00000001428%
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